So how come we look like a football team again?

[Steerpike]

It's funny how in this thread people are busy going on about having good players and emphasising their importance yet on these same boards when the subject of Pogba pops up people can't stop writing how we should get rid.

So people have realized that we need better players after all if we want to be up there with the best yet they'll turn around in other threads writing about how they can't wait to get rid of one of our quality player. This place

Probably the 3 most satisfying victories of Ole's reign - PSG away, and the league double this year over City - have all been achieved without Pogba. I have always felt that the team as a whole plays better without him, and I believe the stats back that up.

I think many suspect that Pogba's primary focus is himself, and how good he looks, and when it isn't going well for him he contributes very little. It's still early days, but Bruno by contrast seems to be a proper team man. He has the happy knack of inspiring his teammates, whereas Pogba seems to need his teammates to inspire him (an argument pretty much conceded by all the posts excusing Pogba's performances on the basis of the lack of quality around him).

Right now, we seem to be headed in the right direction on every front. Some of us worry that Pogba will return, still sulky and inconsistent, and a lot of the good work that has been done will be ruined.

 

[Red Stone]

This team has always been close to being a very good side, but when Ole took over we were missing that defensive confidence that allows us to throw people forward without worrying about conceding, which did a number on our confidence once the new manager bounce wore off last season. With Maguire and AWB coming in and Williams performing well leading Shaw's awakening, those problems have largely solved themselves, but a new problem revealed itself in Pogba going completely off the boil and then getting injured or whatever his problem is nowadays. Then we lacked creativity going forward. Bruno has fixed that, and he's also brought with him a remarkable attitude that we've been missing for years.

I just hope we don't spring another leak within the next few months, and I feel like shipping Pogba and Lingard off will drastically reduce the chances of that happening, as well as bring in a bit of cash. We're very close to becoming a good team again. Getting the summer transfer window right is going to be key.

 

[Valuedrug]

Well he didn't have to play them @Theo88 and @Wumminator . For a start he could and should have used Mata more over these two non PL standard footballers, he would 100% have provided more goals, assists and quality even if he's not at Bruno's level.

Ole literally started the season for the first 4 games before Pogba's injury with Matic and Tuanzebe benched (2 DM options there, and Mata benched) and played Pogba deep so that he could fit one of Lingard or Andreas in at AM. In game 5 he put Fred on the bench to start Andreas. When Pogba came back he benched Matic AND Fred so he could play both of them vs. Arsenal . In the following game we lost to Newcastle with Matic benched for Andreas again. By this point we're up to October 6th, we've an awful record in the league and the management team is still refusing to start a single game without either Andreas or Lingard in the starting line-up despite having much better options than them on the bench.

After October 6th, Matic is injured, Pogba is out for months and your point becomes "somewhat valid", until January the management had not much choice if they didn't wanna go with Mata or a youth product like say Gomes.

So let's be honest here, the management team clearly believed in the two of them at the start of the season. There's a strong chance we went purposely into this season not pursuing the Bruno option due to optimism that Andreas or Lingard would "step up".

Once again people, don't rewrite the past. It happened, the management have learnt from it and corrected it. That's good management to always learn and to continue to evolve. It may well be the pig-headedness that prevents Mourinho from ever being a top top manager again.

Really good post. Important to try and see the full picture instead of this cultist, hallelujah acid trip that becomes so popular on here after any good result.

 

[mav_9me]

Everything is fundamentally due to

1. No more Lingard or Pereira in the no. 10 position in a 4-2-3-1, most imp position for the attack in that set up.

2. On top of that we added Fernandes who has done brilliant.

All other improvements we see are because of above. What I mean is other improvements like Shaw or Maguire or defence in general or ighalo so far are making a difference and having an impact because of above.

 

[The Irish Connection]

Probably the 3 most satisfying victories of Ole's reign - PSG away, and the league double this year over City - have all been achieved without Pogba. I have always felt that the team as a whole plays better without him, and I believe the stats back that up.

I think many suspect that Pogba's primary focus is himself, and how good he looks, and when it isn't going well for him he contributes very little. It's still early days, but Bruno by contrast seems to be a proper team man. He has the happy knack of inspiring his teammates, whereas Pogba seems to need his teammates to inspire him (an argument pretty much conceded by all the posts excusing Pogba's performances on the basis of the lack of quality around him).

Right now, we seem to be headed in the right direction on every front. Some of us worry that Pogba will return, still sulky and inconsistent, and a lot of the good work that has been done will be ruined.

You’re right. We’re more of a team without pogba and his ork of an agent. Pogba is very talented but his positioning isn’t disciplined enough and he goes missing in games.

 

[The Brown Bull]

We actually have a lot of very good players who have been struggling to perform consistently.
The addition of Bruno seems (to me) to have lifted everyone.
Its a start.

 

[reelworld]

Agreed 100%
was outstanding again today.
Is back to the form he showed in his first few games for the club.

I'm guessing, competition of place, more quality players to play with and enough depth to rotate is doing wonders to his 31 year old legs

 

[Sky1981]

I'd say it's Bruno, and probably a swing in luck as in everyone's finding form.

Would hold my breath until these good plays becomes a norm rather than exceptions.

Result are temporary but good games, good passing, structured attack are permanent.

 

[Icemav]

We wete never a bad team just that injuries to martial, pogba, rashford, Mctominay all happened and all are our most important player. Imagine city without kdb aguero laporte and Rodri for 2 to 3 months or liverpool without van djik, salah and mane for months. We will be even better after rashford and Pogba in this side and if we add sancho and graelish we are looking even better.

Thank you for saying it. These have been very punishing injuries for our team this season. Not something to be ignored.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Matic was unsettled at the start of the season and playing shite.

You’ve just made that up, as I said in my post, he wasn’t picked. How the feck can you play shite if you don’t play? The only league game he started was a 1-0 win vs. Leicester ffs.
And he became unsettled after 2.5 months of being benched for Andreas and Lingard... rightly so I’d say.

Considering I went to length game by game to show this in my previous post only for you to completely dismiss the facts; instead inserting your warped biased personal (and factually incorrect) view means I won’t be holding my breath for a balanced thought out reply here. You clearly need this to conform to your World view.

 

[Tarrou]

it's a combination of factors with Bruno obviously being the catalyst recently

but the main reason we look like a team is Ole and they way he's got this group together and motivated, then sprinkle a bit of confidence and belief on top of that and you get performances like yesterday

 

[Icemav]

I wish people will stop acting like we have turned a corner. Bruno was an excellent signing but we need more. We are battling with Wolves and Sheffield Utd for 5th. There are green shoots visible in terms of management and team play, and player development but nothing sunstantive long term..... i.e. great first halfs versus Everton and City but 2nd halves we looked overmatched.

 

[thepolice123]

You’ve just made that up, as I said in my post, he wasn’t picked. How the feck can you play shite if you don’t play? The only league game he started was a 1-0 win vs. Leicester ffs.
And he became unsettled after 2.5 months of being benched for Andreas and Lingard... rightly so I’d say.

Considering I went to length game by game to show this in my previous post only for you to completely dismiss the facts; instead inserting your warped biased personal (and factually incorrect) view means I won’t be holding my breath for a balanced thought out reply here. You clearly need this to conform to your World view.

Wow talk about overreacting and acting all whiny. Get that chip off your shoulder ffs, I'm not even disagreeing with you. I even mentioned that Ole does have a soft spot for both Pereira and Lingard.

Matic was garbage towards the end of last season and looked terrible in pre-season. Going in 19-20 he was seen by many here as part of the deadwood and past it. Saying Matic would have been a better option back at the start of the season is just using hindsight at best. Very little people here saw his turnaround in form.

 

[Tom Cato]

He tried for a while and even Ole's miraculous powers weren't enough

I still think there's a good footballer in there, but the man can't stay injury free for the life of him. He's done a complete Fernando Torres and gone from hero to zero in the blink of an eye almost. At least Torres revived his career in Atletico, maybe Sanchez can do the same, either here or somewhere else.

 

[Tom Cato]

I wish people will stop acting like we have turned a corner. Bruno was an excellent signing but we need more. We are battling with Wolves and Sheffield Utd for 5th. There are green shoots visible in terms of management and team play, and player development but nothing sunstantive long term..... i.e. great first halfs versus Everton and City but 2nd halves we looked overmatched.

We've played 10 games in a row without a loss in all competitions. The current longest streak since the first 11 game surge under Ole before he became permanent manager.

In that game span we've kept 8 clean sheets, scored 23 and allowed a grand total of 2 goals.

How big a corner do you need turned to see the positives here?

 

[stevoc]

The moment we started playing less of the likes of Lingard and Perreira. These shite players impact us negatively more than we really realize

Big time it can't be understated just how much of a detriment those two, Lingard especially can be to an attack. And we've spent most of the season play one or both regularly due to injuries.

 

[pacifictheme]

We've played 10 games in a row without a loss in all competitions. The current longest streak since the first 11 game surge under Ole before he became permanent manager.

In that game span we've kept 8 clean sheets, scored 23 and allowed a grand total of 2 goals.

How big a corner do you need turned to see the positives here?

Its amazing that that run has seen rashford injured during it. Who had been our best player this season.

 

[kouroux]

Big time it can't be understated just how much of a detriment those two, Lingard especially can be to an attack. And we've spent most of the season play one or both regularly due to injuries.

It's more than just replacing one player for another too, having Bruno is a lift of confidence for every single just like having Lingard adds to their stress.

 

[Deleted 112447]

Multiple factors imo. The defense started to work better as a unit with players having more time to play with each other, Fred has adapted to the league and with Matic and McTom offers us a solid platform in midfield and of course Bruno replacing mediocre players in that position. The manager and the coaches have been working very well behind the scenes and things are all coming together at once it seems. To think that we still have Rashford and Pogba to come in to the team. Things are looking good.

 

[Odin]

I understand that mate, and I've no issue with you (or anyone really), but that thing about 'being right coming before United's success', is defo something that goes both ways.

There are so many 'Ole In' posters who come on after a big win filled with vitriol rather than joy! Today included.

And indeed, it has appeared many a time that they'd rather see United fail with Ole at the wheel than admit they're wrong that he's the best manager Utd could get.

At the end of the day, today was a massive step toward CL footy next season, and every Utd fan should be happy about that - rather than being actively angry that other fans have different opinions than them.

Actually, the heaps of shit that's posted in this forum is massive when we loose. Yes, some people post snide "I told you so"s when we win, but it's not even close in numbers.

The outers have been on the front foot, monopolising rationality in a massively unscientific manner. I used to think I was very rational as a kid and a young man, but I found later in life I was only being unaware of everyday dynamics and the mentality required to perform well. It seems OGS is not unaware of this, I actually think he got that figured out early in his life. He comes across as such a model professional, although some of the body language experts on this forum can tell you he does everything wrong...

All we fans do is observe and comment. Shit is easier to offload, and it sticks way more than praise. I used to be a gloomer myself. But I found as a business manager that it's much easier to work with motivated, positive people. So yeah, I like it when sunshiners tell gloomers to have a look at the world in full daylight instead of spreading their darkness.

Observe the colours, nuances and shades. Work at your best ability with what you've got. That's rationality.

Maintaining a positive outlook is not the same as being a sentimental and deluded fan or a naive manager, it's about doing what you can and keeping the spirit high. Go United!

 

[theklr]

So why the feck did we not bring Bruno in earlier?

We thought Pogba would play for us more or less.

 

[Odin]

Actually, the heaps of shit that's posted in this forum is massive when we loose. Yes, some people post snide "I told you so"s when we win, but it's not even close in numbers.

The outers have been on the front foot, monopolising rationality in a massively unscientific manner. I used to think I was very rational as a kid and a young man, but I found later in life I was only being unaware of everyday dynamics and the mentality required to perform well. It seems OGS is not unaware of this, I actually think he got that figured out early in his life. He comes across as such a model professional, although some of the body language experts on this forum can tell you he does everything wrong...

All we fans do is observe and comment. Shit is easier to offload, and it sticks way more than praise. I used to be a gloomer myself. But I found as a business manager that it's much easier to work with motivated, positive people. So yeah, I like it when sunshiners tell gloomers to have a look at the world in full daylight instead of spreading their darkness.

Observe the colours, nuances and shades. Work at your best ability with what you've got. That's rationality.

Maintaining a positive outlook is not the same as being a sentimental and deluded fan or a naive manager, it's about doing what you can and keeping the spirit high. Go United!

Yes, I think Ole has played a massive part in this, and will continue to do so. Bruno is a big part in the team, but I think people are over-simplifying when they say it is all on him. Could you put Bruno into Mourinho's squad in December 2018 and get the same result? I don't think so.

 

[theklr]

We've played 10 games in a row without a loss in all competitions. The current longest streak since the first 11 game surge under Ole before he became permanent manager.

In that game span we've kept 8 clean sheets, scored 23 and allowed a grand total of 2 goals.

How big a corner do you need turned to see the positives here?

I still feel that as well , but think its more too emotional scars than rationality.

You can see after the dissapointing 1-1 draw against Everton, they pick themselves up again now because they have more belief in themselves.

You can say that winning big games doesnt matter if you loose the "small" ones, but thats far from the truth. Because beating City like that makes them know they actually can play good football.

So even if we loose against Spurs by some bad luck or whatever, the players have more confidence in that they in fact are a good team, and in the long run that is massivly important.

 

[Amerifan]

Probably the 3 most satisfying victories of Ole's reign - PSG away, and the league double this year over City - have all been achieved without Pogba. I have always felt that the team as a whole plays better without him, and I believe the stats back that up.

I think many suspect that Pogba's primary focus is himself, and how good he looks, and when it isn't going well for him he contributes very little. It's still early days, but Bruno by contrast seems to be a proper team man. He has the happy knack of inspiring his teammates, whereas Pogba seems to need his teammates to inspire him (an argument pretty much conceded by all the posts excusing Pogba's performances on the basis of the lack of quality around him).

Right now, we seem to be headed in the right direction on every front. Some of us worry that Pogba will return, still sulky and inconsistent, and a lot of the good work that has been done will be ruined.

You bring up a good point. One of the big changes has been the emergence of leaders on the pitch. Lindelof delivered an impossible pass to Bruno, and instead of ignoring it, Bruno made a motion to Lindelof like “what are you thinking?” A game or two ago Maguire threw Fred away from the ref after he received a yellow for arguing and he continued to argue on Fred’s behalf saving him from a red card. Early in the season it was every man for himself. Now they seem like a proper team. De Gea celebrating that second goal like he scored it himself, don’t recall seeing that before.

 

[MiracleInMadrid]

You bring up a good point. One of the big changes has been the emergence of leaders on the pitch. Lindelof delivered an impossible pass to Bruno, and instead of ignoring it, Bruno made a motion to Lindelof like “what are you thinking?” A game or two ago Maguire threw Fred away from the ref after he received a yellow for arguing and he continued to argue on Fred’s behalf saving him from a red card. Early in the season it was every man for himself. Now they seem like a proper team. De Gea celebrating that second goal like he scored it himself, don’t recall seeing that before.

Agree very much apart from the bolded part. I've seen that from De Gea several times even during tough times over the years.

 

[cyril C]

When Fred becomes a threat, Matic and Shaw are back, new addition of AWB Maguire and of course Bruno. Bruno makes the final 3rd which we 80% of the time don't get it from Pogba. Also beware that Bruno and Fred are much better protector of the ball, if you recall how many goals we conceded when we gifted the ball to opposition.

 

[Sylar]

Think it was Jamie Carragher who said it, but you dont realise the impact one or two right signings can make and it can suddenly make you look a lot closer than you were to having a complete lineup / squad.

Bruno has been such a key signing in completing attacks. Take for example the first goal yesterday. Nobody else before his signing would be trying that pass to Martial. (He also seems a leader on the pitch wit hthe way hes getting people to push on / press., and because of that its infectious to others and brings confidence to others).

Competition helps too. Matic looks so much better now that hes no longer an automatic starter. Fred looks so much better with a manger thats playing him (and not downplaying him).
With Rashford out, Martial looks to have stepped up (importantly) but that has been helped with Ighalo coming in to be an extra body. Shaw of course looks better (and Williams breaking through has helped)

And the players help the manager. Oles gameplans look so much better with players who can execute.
Ole wasnt throwing players under the bus when they werent performing (and I remember a lot of people complaining that he wasnt doing that). once he had options available, weve seen he can be ruthless in those terms and now plays the better players.

 

[King7Eric]

Clutching at straws given the amount of decisions we have got with VAR this season.

We have got decisions our way that should be going our way within the laws of the game. If anything, the number of overturned decisions we have had this year just shows how much we got screwed by refs before VAR. Even yesterday we didn't get a penalty we should be getting. Its not like we are being handed decisions by luck, those are the correct decisions we haven't been getting for so many years.

 

[Gandalf Greyhame]

Ole's vision and focus on team spirit.
Replacing Lingard with Bruno.
Squad rotation allowing rest to key players.

 

[Bestietom]

It's simple. You drop your bad players and you bring in good players who actually execute plans well.

Yes, keep Pereira and Lingard well away, and we will be fine.

 

[Alan Partridge]

I think we stopped looking for instant fixes and trying to shoe horn big ego players into the side. Now we have a team of hard workers with good attitudes. I think our frontline lacked leadership and Bruno has fixed that (much like Maguire did with our backline).

 

[The Original]

It's Bruno and all that he brings. That's it. That's all that has changed for recent upturn. It's obvious.

Ole to Bruno: you're our 10, do 10 stuff out there and lot so of it fernanny

How does that explain 8 clean sheets in 10?

 

[ghaliboy]

We have a creative midfielder that actually works hard and knits the team together, plus has synergy with the league. Not that difficult a situation to understand, making it all the more bizarre that we didn't sign him earlier in the summer.

 

[wrinklydong]

For this game vs Man City I'm 100% sure this is down to the team slowly mastering the art of silent domination mentioned by Gary Neville.

 

[e.cantona]

These players didn't meet for the first time and start playing football together 1 month ago. Tactics, fitnes, style, training, team building-orwhatever, everything that goes with making a group of players gel and go in the same direction. This isn't Bruno coming in and all of a sudden, WOW, magic out of the sky. If you think that you're either too young to know, or.. maybe a bit slow, I don't know. This is Ole & co planning for 18 months how to make a team of players play a style of football they want.

Why did so and so play in the past? Probably because they fit that role in the team better then someone else. With time better players will come in for those who can't perform the role as wanted. Lingard/Pereira

 

[Icemav]

We've played 10 games in a row without a loss in all competitions. The current longest streak since the first 11 game surge under Ole before he became permanent manager.

In that game span we've kept 8 clean sheets, scored 23 and allowed a grand total of 2 goals.

How big a corner do you need turned to see the positives here?

Very good short term form. But we need a season of this where we are comfortably top 4. I see definite improvement in our play but we are a 45 minute team at the moment so lots more needed. Also if Bruno gets injured we lose an important new catalyst in the side.

 

[Gehrman]

Think it was Jamie Carragher who said it, but you dont realise the impact one or two right signings can make and it can suddenly make you look a lot closer than you were to having a complete lineup / squad.

Bruno has been such a key signing in completing attacks. Take for example the first goal yesterday. Nobody else before his signing would be trying that pass to Martial. (He also seems a leader on the pitch wit hthe way hes getting people to push on / press., and because of that its infectious to others and brings confidence to others).

Competition helps too. Matic looks so much better now that hes no longer an automatic starter. Fred looks so much better with a manger thats playing him (and not downplaying him).
With Rashford out, Martial looks to have stepped up (importantly) but that has been helped with Ighalo coming in to be an extra body. Shaw of course looks better (and Williams breaking through has helped)

And the players help the manager. Oles gameplans look so much better with players who can execute.
Ole wasnt throwing players under the bus when they werent performing (and I remember a lot of people complaining that he wasnt doing that). once he had options available, weve seen he can be ruthless in those terms and now plays the better players.

It's a bit like Suarez and Sterling for Liverpool. Once they went they plummeted.

 

[Thisistheone]

The work Ole is doing at improving players over this season (with the coaches) has been immense. That and some key decisions

Shaw - improved
Fred - greatly improved
McT - continued his trajectory
Rashford - more clinical, better on the left
Martial - better upfront, more goals and assists
Maguire - Made Captain.
Matic - brought back in and is motivated
Ighalo - shrewd signing
Young, Rom, Darmian, Rojo, Smalling, Sanchez - gone
Lingard and Pereira - out of squads
Greenwood - 10 goals, handled brilliantly
Williams - plucked from the reserves.Talent.
Bruno Fecking Fernandez

when you put it all in writing like that, seems like he’s doing a great job to me!

This here. It's such a massive relief to see us sign players and they improve, rather than turn to shit - like Alexis - as well as the existing players getting better. Feels like there's progressive coaching taking place. Also the characters we have now are far better. Slowly falling in love with this side. Step by step.

Getting top 4 is so big now. Missing out could slow the rebuild down by a year or more.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Matic was garbage towards the end of last season and looked terrible in pre-season. Going in 19-20 he was seen by many here as part of the deadwood and past it. Saying Matic would have been a better option back at the start of the season is just using hindsight at best. Very little people here saw his turnaround in form.

It's not hindsight at all if you're one of the posters who called it all along on Matic. Look at my history and you'll see it. Ivaldo (who hates Matic) will no certainly back me up here.

So it's hindsight for you maybe, but speak for yourself, and I'd argue that if you think you needed proof from Matic that he is a miles better player than Lingard or Andreas, you need your head checking. The bolded above blows me away. Andreas and Lingard have never been close to fit to lace Matic boots.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Big time it can't be understated just how much of a detriment those two, Lingard especially can be to an attack. And we've spent most of the season play one or both regularly due to injuries.

No Steve, it had nothing to do with injuries until October, from October their choices were reduced to Mata or Gomes or one of Lingard/Andreas. Before October they had plenty of options like shifting Pogba forward and playing Matic or Fred, hell, even playing Tuanzebe. But time and time again miles better midfielders were put on the bench to accommodate Lingard or Andreas. The management quite clearly rated the two of them and wanted to give them a chance.

As I said earlier, you don't have to rewrite history to defend Ole and make out every move he has made has been "forced" or "perfect", making mistakes and quickly learning from that is all part of good management. I'd prefer him not to have learnt this "on the job" but feck it, if he's a quick learner, and Bruno, Ighalo say he is, fair fecks.