I just checked and Martial has played about 60 more games for united than Cantona did.
So Jose Was Right?
- Thread starter 432JuanMata
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But. . . But. . . If we’d have just signed Harry Kane this squad was only a goalscorer away
Been saying it for ages. Until there are wholesale changes nothing will change. We’re meant to have people working on this squad 12 months of the year no just 1 month in the Winter & 3 in the Summer. There is absolutely no excuse to have the squad we do, none.
How exactly could we implement wholesale changes to the squad? If we’re being completely honest, only Martinez and Shaw are completely untouchable amidst a wholesale squad change. The only way to erase the squad and start over is over a minimum four transfer window span and probably more like six or eight.
We’ve screwed ourselves with idiotic buys over the last decade, the latest being Antony, Mount and Onana. Most of us like Hojlund for the long run but he simply wasn’t ready to step in immediately and be a 5-10 goal PL scorer for us this season.
We’re a badly run club. Sir Jim has made huge promises and we’ll see if he can deliver on them.
We’ve screwed ourselves with idiotic buys over the last decade, the latest being Antony, Mount and Onana. Most of us like Hojlund for the long run but he simply wasn’t ready to step in immediately and be a 5-10 goal PL scorer for us this season.
We’re a badly run club. Sir Jim has made huge promises and we’ll see if he can deliver on them.
Yup. Tactics is not the issue, player quality is. The ETH era is going in the wrong direction with some terrible signings. Rangnick was correct and we still need 8 new players after spending 400m. Only Martinez has worked out, Casemiro just for one season.
No where in my post do I state that that's not true. Reread the last sentence that you've quoted.(i.e. the second bolded part)
As for the first bolded part: I disagree. I remember the uproar on here when Martial was benched for Sanchez. Sure in hindsight that looked like a disaster signing, but at the time it literraly was a masterstroke of genius. Sanchez was supposed to be everything Martial was plus workrate.
I also remember how our fans were annoyed that players like Rashford didn't get the chance to shine and that Mourinho played him out of position/not consistent enough.
I also remember said fans feeling vindicated when Rashford went on a run of good form once Ole showed up. Same thing with Pogba who was finally unlocked during that purple patch Ole had.
This idea that nobody thought our players were world class is revisionism. Just look up the famous: Is Rashford better than Mbape thread.
Mourinho might have been a toxic cnut, but the hierarchy messed up by firing just him. The message the likes of Rashford, Martial, Pogba and co got is that they are more important than the manager.
And if they don't like anything, all they have to do is down tools and the manager will be shown the door. They did that to Mourinho, Ole, Ragnick and now ETH.
It's one thing when the tactics aren't working, but it's completely different when the players just stop running all together.
You are employed by Manchester United and you are expected to do your job. This whole "the manager has to motivate his players to do the absolute basics" nonsense has got to go.
At no other job anyone is going to fire a manager if the employees are literally not doing what their told and being open about it.
Tell that to every other football club that does the exact same thing.
Please name one player that accoring to you has shown his worth? And please don't say Bruno or Rashford, both have crumbled and choked under pressure, under different managers and have downed tools. I'm really curious who of our team would make it at any other top team? I can confidentaly say no one. Top 10 team sure, top 3 team 100% not
I think we could have shifted more players and made more funds. Only two of the old guard went in De Gea and Fred and they were probably the best ones in terms of attitude.
As decent as Maguire has been lately and …well, as many goals as McTominay has got recently, they both had to go in the summer. The Martial thing is pathetic but we just have to pay the consequences of our mistake and let his deal run out, Dalot could have gone years ago, lindelof too. Rashford could be another expensive mistake in terms of wages, another problem we might have to suffer. The club is just useless at getting rid of and assessing players. And buying players. Next manager will probably find that out too.
I didn't followed United that close when you were under Mourinho, so I don't really remember if he signaled specific players or just complained in general about the whole squad. Then what I remember is that I thought it was a mistake for the club to side with the players when they started to fall out with Mourinho as that would undermine his authority and would set a bad precedent for upcoming managers.
This should be no surprise to anyone in Real Madrid it has happened a lot and it is something to be expected when you have so many superstar players in one team. However with United the players haven't won a thing, are paid a lot and have a poor attitude. So yeah at the time it seemed like a terrible move to undermine the manager as at that time he had more credit than any of the players. Even if his sacking was inevitable the management should had gotten rid of the problematic players, specially the ones with poor work ethic.
Something similar happened when Ronaldo rejoined you as there was a cultural shock for him so it's something every manager and player that joins you is going to struggle with unless something is done about it.
Agreed, but what I’m suggesting is that it’s not possible to replace 20 or more players in one or even two transfer windows. More like 6 or 8. We offer insane contracts for decent but more than decent players and then we get rid of players who actually contribute to the squad and replace them with inferior players. ABUers have been enjoying every minute of it…over the last decade.
United management should have kept Ralf in the role envisioned to enable him to rebuild the squad. But Erik was having none of that. So here we are now, witnessing on a regular basis a swirling turd of squad.
Was Jose right?
Let me get this straight he was sacked 5 years ago after the most toxic period in years.The guy who signed Pogba then called him a trouble maker jose is and always has been trouble.
Even if he was right, who the feck cares.
Let me get this straight he was sacked 5 years ago after the most toxic period in years.The guy who signed Pogba then called him a trouble maker jose is and always has been trouble.
Even if he was right, who the feck cares.
I mean, he probably said some things that were right, but he chose to do it in the most toxic manner, and burn the place to the ground to hammer home his point.
Bang on. Although I doubt he was only right about "some things". He probably was right in most but the way he communicated them was purely toxic.
It also isn't rocket science to spot the huge issues we have. Rangnick saw them too and probably most working at the club but most decided not to go public with it.
Many things have to change though that's for sure.
LVG, José both said same thing. The club then made a meal out of the transfer committee and revamping scouting and Ole gave that interview about a new style of recruiting and singing young younger players to build a high press/high energy team. The future was bright.
We then kept signing old fecks.
We then kept signing old fecks.
Yes Jose was self serving but was he wrong? He was past his best but the club is/was a joke. I actually think his reputation did his sentiments a disservice because it wasn’t actually said in the interest of the club but himself, although he wasn’t wrong in some cases.
Most depressing thing I’ve heard all year.I just checked and Martial has played about 60 more games for united than Cantona did.
We go for quick fixes every time when we need a real big change.But. . . But. . . If we’d have just signed Harry Kane this squad was only a goalscorer away
Been saying it for ages. Until there are wholesale changes nothing will change. We’re meant to have people working on this squad 12 months of the year no just 1 month in the Winter & 3 in the Summer. There is absolutely no excuse to have the squad we do, none.
Van Gaal already said many things that turned out to be right, like us being a commercial club. The result? Woody told him to feck off, and became even more commercial by signing Pogba and hiring Jose. Ironically the lack of direction and DoF at the club resulted in his career's biggest payday.
What's Pogba up to these days?
Great post. I listened to a podcast with Frank Lampard as guest on it recently and he was highlighting that if you have one or two players that are not putting in the required effort and it’s not dealt with quickly by the club then that attitude rapidly spreads to the whole squad.
Conversely, it takes longer when a player comes in with an elite attitude and work rate for that ethic to become the norm with the existing underperforming squad.
Ergo it’ll take a few seasons of signing the right profiles of committed, quality players to see the impact on the squad but we have to weed out the bad apples as quickly as possible.
Problem is Mourinho 100% damaged Martial and Rashford's development as actual strikers by not using them there and signing replacements in that position. So even if he is right, he was partly responsible with his inability to help mdevelop young players
Also McTom. So yeah big wrong
Also McTom. So yeah big wrong
I don't think either have the presence to play there though (not to mention goal scoring ability). I'm not surprised he didn't fancy them in such an important role when you look at the CFs he's been used to prior. Zlatan was more his type of CF.
Sort of, but he contributed to the mess with his signings as well, similar to Ten Hag.
His testimonial will be the next time Joel Glazer attends a match. To congratulate his Pele.I just checked and Martial has played about 60 more games for united than Cantona did.
Cantona signed in 92 and left in 97 after 143 games and 64 goals.
Martial signed in 2015, is still f**king here after 208 games and 63 goals.
I checked wikipedia because I read a piece a while ago complaining that Martial has made his 200th appearance for United despite never convincing. It stuck in my head. We pay europa league players champions league wages and get surprised when they get lazy.
Spot on. No point in replacing ETH when mediocre players like Rashford/Martial/ Maguire/AWB keep playing important roles.
Imo ETh should not have been that arrogant to not seek Ragnick's advice.
Every manager who gives a clean slate to these players sets himself up for a mediocre tenure.
Excellent post.
This was why I thought the club really missed a trick with Ragnick. He could of been the one to do a purge of the squad but it looks like it’s left to ETH.
Feels like the issues are so deep rooted
Parking the bus tactic doesn't have anything to do with the players being lazy. That's kinda weird assumption. You will need hard work rate in modern game regardless of the style you are playing. What you are talking about is playing with high intensity, which is true that Mourinho isn't known for it, but putting efforts is the bare minimum expected from any footballer.
Also Rashford was hard worker under Mourinho for the first 1.5 years and Mourinho even praised him for how much efforts he did back then in his first year here, so why would he turn him into a lazy player who doesn't care to track back? Tracking back is Mourinho's biggest obsession in football as the guy basically plays wingers as full backs in any big games, with fullbacks becoming center backs too.
Rashford's arrogance was just starting to grow back then. That was the time when he started to imitate Ronaldo in the way he plays and shoots the ball, and when Ole came and gave him full power it exploded.
I want to note Van Gaal's team wasn't that much of hard workers either and the distance covered will mostly be due to how much the players kept possession for long time in their own half passing aimlessly to each other.
Maguire? I don't like the guy but he has been single handedly saving Ten Hag's job for a long time now.
Good thing we've got Antony/Mount/Amrabat/Reguillon to save us.
You are employed by Manchester United and you are expected to do your job. This whole "the manager has to motivate his players to do the absolute basics" nonsense has got to go.
At no other job anyone is going to fire a manager if the employees are literally not doing what their told and being open about it.
[/QUOTE]
That's precisely what managers are suppose to do. What do you think was Fergie's strength? Wasn't some tactical genius.
That's the case for football or in real life.
At no other job anyone is going to fire a manager if the employees are literally not doing what their told and being open about it.
[/QUOTE]
That's precisely what managers are suppose to do. What do you think was Fergie's strength? Wasn't some tactical genius.
That's the case for football or in real life.
I don’t think it’s asking a lot for players to be able to do the very basics regardless of manager. Pass a ball a few yards and working hard is something every player should be able to do even if you have the dumbest manager in charge.
That's precisely what managers are suppose to do. What do you think was Fergie's strength? Wasn't some tactical genius.
That's the case for football or in real life.
There are so many basic things United players don’t do at times that has nothing to do with managers in my opinion. The top managers can get more from good players, but the kind of unprofessional sh*t from United players over the years is next level laziness.
Shaw.
Not saying his signings were perfect, but do you prefer this ETH approach where his signings get different treatment just because he brought them in? I mean Onana and Antony have been border line criminal and he plays them on regular bases?
Sorry to go off-topic here, but it might be relevant for others as well. Shorts can also be accessed (and thus embedded) as standard YouTube videos. To extract a short and make it a regular one, do this:
1. In any browser (desktop/tablet/mobile) — use a URL-prefix from any other standard YouTube, such as the following prefixes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v= or https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=
2. Replace the part after the "watch?v=" with the unique video-id from whichever short you want, in your specific video it is jU53sZSs_68
This method applies to all shorts. Spread the word and help us fight the pesky pests that are shorts, which can not be rewinded (desktop) nor sped up (all devices). Pain in the arse if you just missed a small detail and want to go back only slightly…but instead have to loop the entire fecking video. Annoying, regardless of platform.
Note: above method can not be done from the dedicated YouTube-app (well, not on iPads or iPhones at least) but you can work around that too and launch it in the app. Do step 1 and 2 on your handheld device which has the YouTube app installed on it. When the YouTube page opens just click the "open app" button. However, shorts can at least be rewinded on handheld devices. So the overall tip is mainly for desktop!
Here is your short embedded by the way:
Clearly ETH has lost the changing room.
You don't realise the level of athleticism & kills required to play at this level. I have played sports against a few high level professionals before.
They are blessed with abilities we can't fathom. It's beyond the imagination for us mere mortals
They aren't applying themselves for a reason.
I know people say you have to do whatever it takes to make it as a pro but...
Its more than that.
Example: their hand/foot/eye coordination are at a godly level. The fast twitch muscles to boot. Or the spatial intelligence.
Whatever sport you think you are good at, and they may not have played it before -- but within a couple of weeks would most likely be on par with you and within a month be better than you. Trust me on this.
I have played a lot of organised sport in my life -- 8-10 different sports from primary school. But these pro or even ex pro guys are at a level that you just dont see.
Then the level of sacrifice they have had to make it to get to this level only leads to entitlement at some point.