The trouble we have at United now is that Moyes has pretty much poisoned the idea of getting a manager from a smaller club and giving them a step up. But a look at Pochettino at Southampton shows that sometimes managers at midtable clubs can step up to the top of the table. And of course getting managers with glittering CVs offers no guarantees either, as Mourinho's struggles have shown.
So let's talk about Eddie Howe....
- Thread starter Wayne's World
- Start date
And Van Gaal.
I feel like people are completely clueless about career trajectories of top/successful managers and have the impression that hiring someone because of their relative success at a small club is bound to be a bad idea based on sample size = 1 (Moyes). If you think every big club always hires proven winners you should look at different league champs over the past few years and their appointments.
There's no guarantee with any manager - picking a manager seems to be at least 50% luck.
Bayern - From Heynckes to Pep to Ancelotti to Heynckes to Kovac. And they're having their worst season in years under Kovac(the least proven manager). He's only won the DFB Pokal with E.Frankfurt last season. A lot of proven winners hired.
Real Madrid - From Jose to Ancelotti to Rafa to Zidane to Lopetegui to Solari. Worst season in years under Lopetegui. No real unproven manager there bar Solari(who will likely fail).
Barcelona - From Pep to Tito to Tata to Enrique to Valverde. Not many proven winners, but people ingrained in the Barcelona culture. They go for the least proven managers, but they're all Barcelona people except for Tata(and they had a bad season under him). Arguably the worst managerial appointments from the 3 clubs listed despite still obtaining success.
Well, Zidane, the proven one.
No it doesn't. It just... really really doesn't.
He took over Preston when they were in the third division (what is currently league one) and got them to the championship.
He then took one of the traditional top 5 clubs in the country and an ever present in the top division since the 50s and got them to one cup final and one top 4 finish, where they promptly got knocked out in the qualifying round. They had thr 7th or 8th highest revenue (can't find details for wage bills that far back).
How is that the same as bringing a club up from league 2 to the prem, establishing them as a prem team and his season, even firmly in the top half, with a great style of football despite a tiny stadium and the 3rd smallest wage bill in the league.
It is very lazy to just say Howe = Moyes. It doesn't mean that Howe would succeed but the two are not the same. One actually tries to play progressive football for one thing.
Top post! I saw your other post as well and you echo what I believe Man Utd is about. We have stepped away from our core values in recent times and need a reboot to the basics. This is what differentiated us from the other teams, regardless of what they spent. Yes we will spend on top players when needed when there is no one from our youth system in a particular position, but give first dibs to youth.
As you say, we've taken risks with 3 established managers ( 2 with Champions League medals and multiple championships in different leagues between them), Howe is Eddie going to be a bigger risk. Plus, when people compare him to Moyes, that's not true. Totally different footballing styles. If someone like Pogba can't respect a new tactical manager, then he doesn't have the best interests of the team.
We need really need to go back to basics and build Manchester United from the ground up again. Use the positives of what we have right now with Pogba and co and build upon with our youth players. Then build upon this with the weak positions.
It feels that Mourinho and a lot of managers overlook these things with the younger players. Why not give Pereira, Fred a go. Then we have Gomes, Greenwood, Laird, Barlowe, Tuanzebe, Fosu Mensah, Gribbin, Garner and Chong all waiting.
If you're a manager of Manchester United, you have the luxury of one of the greatest academies in the world. Mourinho's shortsightedness isn't able to see the gems he has at his doorstep.
Did Van Gaal not use the youth players a decent amount though?
He did. But he used the wrong ones. For example, he overlooked players like Tom Thorpe for Tyler Blackett and Paddy McNair for using a specific foot. He also played Rashford, which was great. But at the same time, I'm not talking about solely playing young players, it's also being able to understand the psyche of a millennial / generation z. Van Gaal was great for giving someone a chance but he was equally too pedantic for a these types of kids. The kids born after 90s need a different approach to the kids Van Gaal nurtured at in the 90s.
Also, giving kids a chance is one thing, it also playing an attacking brand of football. This is what United have been known for. Whether you talk about the 50s, 60s, even during our barren years, 90s, 00s. Maybe, it was changing in the late Fergie years.
As a Spurs fan I’m actually sad that United are in the position they are in. I have so much more respect for you as a club than I have for City or Chelsea. I feel though that your problems aren’t going to improve until firstly Jose goes, it’s nearly like he is trolling the whole club. Then you have to get it bang on with your next appointment, I have a feeling it will be Zidane and think that will be a mistake.
People comparing Howe to Moyes either haven’t watched how Everton were under Moyes or haven’t watched much of Bournemouth, if I was a United fan I would be wanting Howe and I would be willing to give him at least 2 seasons.
Every CL winning manager this decade except Jose won ZERO trophies before being hired by their club for the first time. Zidane, Luis Enrique and Pep are obvious. When Heynckes started out with Bayern in the 80s he was coaching Gladbach for several season where he won nothing. Di Matteo is obviously shite.
None of those choices would have been approved here.
See I'm a fan of LVG. The first year he didn't integrate many kids at all & was following the ambition of getting back to the UCL with Falcao RVP etc etc. 2nd season he changed it by purposesly selling the older players & keeping the squad low so he can give chances to the youth team as we saw with the countless injuries.
Ultimately he only got to do it for a year & in my eyes he played a very basic style of football that allowed young players to enter the first team; maybe that's what he planned but ultimately whilst his ambition was right to build a young team for Giggs - his tactics were arguably 2 generations old.
Woodward & the fans were craving for success over anything else & started crying for Jose - all of a sudden what LVG was trying to do by getting a young team together was a waste of time. You may have seen some fans talking about how LVG's tenure they view as better than Jose now - that's ultimately because LVG had a clear direction he was going & unfortunately for him the formation of his team that won the FA Cup happened too late at a time he had already been fired & replaced.
I liked the team that used Rashford, Martial & Lingard, smalling, Blind, TFM CBJ, Varela etc much more than the Matic felliani Lukaku squad we see now - I assume some may find that to be resonant with them too.
Ultimately someone like Howe will come in with lower pressure because no one is assuming he can win a title for a year or two. That is something Moyes, LVG & Jose all had to deal with. He also plays attacking football something that will not only get the best out of the likes of Rashford, Martial but also possibly next gen players like Tuenzebe, Gribbin chiong gomes etc etc.
A manager who is building his career at United has the ability to build a team at United more so than a manager with a CV who attempts to build a team that resembles teams that they previously managed ie Everton, bayern or Chelsea.
Now what do I see different from brendan Rodgers to Howe? Ultimately until klopp Liverpool's squad has been consistently poor apart from 2 players per season like suarez, coutinhp.
We may only have 2 World class players at their peak or max but the rest of our players are decent players who are able to perform to a 7/8 out of 10 per game.
Brendan Rodgers added poor players like Joe Allen or llalana I think to an already average team. Howe if he can concentrate on our youth a bit more, use the already world class players & add a few good players on top then he can build a team that can play attacking football as he does at Bournemouth.
Good manager but won't be moving north of the M4 for the foreseeable future.
Jose hasn't moved north of Watford.
I agree with all of this.
bring him on.
tbf, at this point I’d be willing to give Big Sam, Mick McCarthy or Mike Phelan a go, if it meant the Portuguese Eye Gouger was gone
tbf, at this point I’d be willing to give Big Sam, Mick McCarthy or Mike Phelan a go, if it meant the Portuguese Eye Gouger was gone
Also I think if Zidane is an intelligent man - which I think he is; he is waiting for the Juventus manager spot to open.
Success can happen in many ways from Jose to Zidane to Pep - but one thing that is clear is that the level of success and its consistency has only ever happened by homegrown ex player managers - alpt of them winning trebles and cups year after year.
If we don't try that out or getting a manager like Howe for a change in direction then it will be another mistake - or a temporary covering of gaps in the club by a few trophies won only.
Might be budget related? I think he could make the step up.
Pogba has won the World Cup, all the squad has played in the Champions League. Then Eddie Howe rocks up the next day and tells you how to play football when he’s not even managed in the Europa League. Do you really think superstar players would listen to him?
Rightly or wrongly I don’t believe he would be respected by the players. Imagine him telling Luke Shaw he needs to overlap run like Charlie Daniels.
I think he’s a very good manager, in the same way I think David Wagner is as well. They are both doing very good jobs with their squad but for them to progress they need to get a bigger job, not quite the size of United. United should be signing Poch, I believe he’s perfect for this club and that’s precisely why we won’t get him as Woodward is clueless.
Good post
players like Pogba will love playing for a manager like Eddie Howe who will make football fun for them with his approach to the game imo. Only a dinosaur like Moyes and his shit on a stick type of football caused problems. Telling Rio to watch videos of Jagielka.
We've made bad decisions post SAF in hiring managers who just don't fit the traditions of the club. Can we for once make the right one in hiring Eddie Howe?. Eddie Howe is one of the brightest young managers in the game. Just read up about how he conducts training and what players and coaches say about his progressive footballing style. We have Nicky Butt, Michael Carrick, Kieran Mckenna at the club, who will I'm sure support him in his quest to establish his identity on the team. Rene Mulensteen could also be brought into assist.
When teams like Barca hire unproven managers they surround them with people who help them settle into the role from within the club. SAF offered the same to the Donkey Moyes but he brought his rugby coaches from Everton.
We've made bad decisions post SAF in hiring managers who just don't fit the traditions of the club. Can we for once make the right one in hiring Eddie Howe?. Eddie Howe is one of the brightest young managers in the game. Just read up about how he conducts training and what players and coaches say about his progressive footballing style. We have Nicky Butt, Michael Carrick, Kieran Mckenna at the club, who will I'm sure support him in his quest to establish his identity on the team. Rene Mulensteen could also be brought into assist.
When teams like Barca hire unproven managers they surround them with people who help them settle into the role from within the club. SAF offered the same to the Donkey Moyes but he brought his rugby coaches from Everton.
If they have that kind of attitude towards their manager/coach then they shouldn’t be at the club... or a professional athlete.
What’s the major rep difference between Poch and Howe? You simply choosing a foreign manger over an English one. Why would Pogba think more of Poch? Trust me if Pogba carried on in a Poch team like he does in Uniteds he wouldn’t play much.
tbh Poch wouldn't really drop him considering the options he would have here at United. Literally every other midfielder we have is limited. Don't know about Fred, JM hasn't given him enough chances to showcase his skills.
The psychological aspect of being Manchester United manager cannot be underestimated either. These are big shoes to fill. Very big shoes.
Moyes basically shat his pants.
For all their faults nobody can say the same about LVG/Jose.
Eddie Howe is too much of a gamble. I’d have him as assistant though
Moyes basically shat his pants.
For all their faults nobody can say the same about LVG/Jose.
Eddie Howe is too much of a gamble. I’d have him as assistant though
I think players have just changed today. They're a different breed with a bit too much power on their side.
I just read this article about Eddie Howe. Thought it's worth sharing for anyone who doesn't know much about his past or his management style/training methods :
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/46254655
That's a great read. He is worth the risk imo.
The club's business model won't allow it to happen otherwise the club would have persisted with Louis Van Gaal. LvG was not fired because he was playing boring football. He was fired because he failed to get CL football for the following season even though he had secured as many points as the fourth-placed team that season and had also won a silverware to boot.
Our business model entails partaking in CL football every season and challenging for major trophies is deemed a bonus. That is why "safe options" who are available are chosen. When LvG failed to fulfill his remit, the next best guy i.e. Jose Mourinho was appointed. When Jose Mourinho fails to secure CL football for next season he will be booted out and next "proven manager" would be preferred. My guesses are Conte, Simeone or Pochettino.
Even I want someone like Edie Howe or anyone who will play attacking football for that matter to be given the job but I don't think it is likely to happen if the past record is seen.
The only miracle worker left in English football.
With Eddie I'd think we would be going for a modest rebuild if appointed. I don't see Pogba sticking around for that and don't see us attracting the likes of Pogba for a while until Eddie proves himself. If Pogba is truly committed to United and is not arsed about Juve, Barca, Madrid then he shouldn't be a problem.
Pogba was sold on a Jose Mourinho project and that's gone down the toilet.
We don't have any other stars really expect De Gea. Sanchez, if he wants to stay then good if Eddie wants him but he's been so crap I wouldn't really care if he leaves or Eddie doesn't have a plan for him.
Pogba was sold on a Jose Mourinho project and that's gone down the toilet.
We don't have any other stars really expect De Gea. Sanchez, if he wants to stay then good if Eddie wants him but he's been so crap I wouldn't really care if he leaves or Eddie doesn't have a plan for him.
His football has a real spark to it. To be honest I'd be excited about the prospect of him managing United.
Only concern for me is that from something I read the impression I got was that his support staff is are all connected to the club, and they've tended to find talent from the PL and the lower English leagues. At United he'll have to expand his horizons.
But like I said, I think the managers ambitions on the pitch match that of the club, and he seems an excellent man manager. I'm all for this one. I don't think he is "destined to fail" just because he's from Bournemouth. His 442 with a big budget and loads of technique and movement could be terrfici for us.
Only concern for me is that from something I read the impression I got was that his support staff is are all connected to the club, and they've tended to find talent from the PL and the lower English leagues. At United he'll have to expand his horizons.
But like I said, I think the managers ambitions on the pitch match that of the club, and he seems an excellent man manager. I'm all for this one. I don't think he is "destined to fail" just because he's from Bournemouth. His 442 with a big budget and loads of technique and movement could be terrfici for us.
That's not exactly true though. Moyes spent £15 million on Fellaini (2009), £12 million on Yakubu (2007) £11 million on Andy Johnson (2007), £10 million on Bilyaletdinov (2010), £9 million on Jamies Beattie (2005), £9 mill on Andy Van Der Meyde (2006). £7.5 million on Leighton Baines (2008)
All big transfer fees at the time.
Everton at one point had one of the biggest wage bills in the Premier League in some seasons that Moyes was in charge. Mikel Arteta took a pay cut to go to Arsenal.
Moyes averaged 8th position at a club whose turnover every year differed between 6th and 8th. Everton did not over-achieve. They won league titles in the 80s, hugely under-achieved in the 90s despite spending big in the early part of it, got over-taken by a chairman who had no money. But that Chairman sold the assets, squeezed every penny he could muster, and Everton stayed still.
Moyes biggest signings at Everton were some of his worst or only performed for a year. Bilyaletdinov and Van Der Meyde were total flops and he spent 20 million them. He spent 5 milllon on Per Koldrup and only played him once.
But what Moyes was good at was getting bargains and selling them on for 5x what he paid for them. Like Lescott. He basically signed the best young talent from the Championship like Jagielka, Baines, and Lescott. Because he knew that league. And because Everton were careful with their money, he loaned players and signed them if they performed. Like Pienaar and Arteta.
He also got lucky in his first year with Rooney who was sold for 30 million, and he invested it into the squad.
How's plays a flat 442 - if he were to come how do we think he would line us up? I think something like this not sure about the wide areas though..
Martial Rashford
?? Pogba Fred ??
Shaw Lindeolf Bailly Dalot?? Pogba Fred ??
De Gea
Those players would not be playing in an Eddie Howe team especially De Gea who already went through Moyes
I'd love to see him get the job but don't think it'll happen.
We could at least speak to him, see what his vision for the club is, what he'd like to change etc.
We could at least speak to him, see what his vision for the club is, what he'd like to change etc.
Then those players need to go. I don't recall Luis Suarez (a far better player than anyone we have,) having any issues playing for Brendan Rogers. I'd love Poch as well, but one could argue that he was in the same boat as Howe when Spurs signed him, and that's turned out very well.
Suarez didn't have issues as he was using Liverpool as a stepping stone
Or we could speak to someone who has won trophies and managed big clubs .
Why on earth would you want his opinion over the likes of Ancelotti or Zidane .
Seriously is this an English thing that this guy is so coveted here ?
If he took over at Utd we may as forget it
Marco Silva is a better choice and I wouldn't want him either .
We need a top name experienced in managing at this level and who understands Utd fans want good football .
Neither Zidane or Ancelotti play good football though. Signing experienced managers has hardly gone brilliantly for us, Mourinho and LvG both had the relevant experience, pedigree and trophies to back them up and both have been failures here.