It doesn’t even look like it from that angle. His hands are close to his throat but not around it and when you see the footage at full speed it is not a violent act. You can say it as boldly as you wish but it won’t make it true.His hands are literally around his throat. This isn't an argument. It's where his hands were.
You can make whatever argument you like about how threatened Hughes felt or how much force was applied, I'll probably agree with it, but all that matters was was it negligible or not? Given it was a (successful) attempt to prevent Hughes from moving freely it obviously was.
That's why it's a red.
So... Was it a red? (Casemiro / Hughes Royal Rumble)
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Are you trying to suggest Casemiro is hover-handing Hughes like a 17 year old with his prom date?
Of course they're around it ffsI’m so fed up of reading he was being choked and had ands around his neck 
Even more so by using pictures to show this!!
watch the videos ffs
Even more so by using pictures to show this!!watch the videos ffs
Please stop talking nonsense again and again. Ayew was doing Violent Conduct against Fred, basically STRIKE Fred’s throat. Case did NOT! He just held Hughes’s shirt to de-escalate the situation.
The blame should fall into whoever controller the VAR. Because the ref can only look on whatever VAR show him on replay.
He held Hughes' shirt between his hands and his neck
have you tried picking up something without closing your thumb and fingers together? Do you have hands? Do you know how they work? This is incredible.Yeah, none of the officials did themselves any justice today.
As I said, watch the video.Are you trying to suggest Casemiro is hover-handing Hughes like a 17 year old with his prom date?
Not a red for more, yellow at most. all depends what angle the ref seen it from as the first angle I seen I thought it was definite red card.
Probably should appeal.
Probably should appeal.
When you look closely at the image, in fairness you can see Hughes' shirt stretched across his left shoulder, like Casemiro has a hold of it. If that's true, then I don't understand how he can have his hands wrapped around his neck in a choking action. Point is, I think there's enough ambiguity about force and intent in this situation to give him the benefit of doubt.His hands are literally around his throat. This isn't an argument. It's where his hands were.
You can make whatever argument you like about how threatened Hughes felt or how much force was applied, I'll probably agree with it, but all that matters was was it negligible or not? Given it was a (successful) attempt to prevent Hughes from moving freely it obviously was not.
That's why it's a red.
The really annoying thing here though is that Casemiro is neither instigating, nor escalating what's happening. If you follow the letter of the law here to the strictest and most punitive sense, then you have to say it's a red. But if the law is applied that harshly to Casemiro, surely it should have been applied to a number of players, starting with Schlupp's push on Antony which was clearly dangerous, and the player knows he can hide behind the guise of "challenging" for the ball.
Never a red.
I watched all angles, all tweets, all phone videos. Casemiro is not a steward. He shouldn't have done this. It was a 100% red card. Doesn't make the overall ref performance OK but it was a red
Based on your logic every player in the scuffle deserved either red or yellow.
Be honest, how many have you had?
From what VAR showed it was a straight red for me but from this angle it is not even a yellow. The Fred vs Ayew (both) was closer to red than this.
I’m amazed there are people saying this is a “definite red”. Clearly it could be red because the ref thought so. It’s also pretty obvious that a lot of people have watched the footage and disagree. And I’m not sure if anyone thinks Case was the most deserving of a red but many would disagree with that and with reasonable grounds - there was plenty of other stuff going on, most of it pretty harmless and probably not meeting the definition of Violent Conduct. A handful of Yellows was the the right action to take but I’m guessing they couldn’t be bothered.
Not a red. He was holding Hughes' collar. Even Hughes thought it was alright and hugged his "attacker" afterward
Hope club appeals. Don't think it will do anything but club can't just bend their ass over bad refereeing.
Hope club appeals. Don't think it will do anything but club can't just bend their ass over bad refereeing.
How the feck is this a red? Why's everyone so up the refs arse about this?
Exactly, The top pic is the first angle I seen and all day it looked a red, second pic, its barely a yellowFrom what VAR showed it was a straight red for me but from this angle it is not even a yellow. The Fred vs Ayew (both) was closer to red than this.
As I said, this entire exchange happened because someone watched one video from one angle and decided he was holding his shirt, not his neck. I posted a still image of the alternative angle video (which is also in this thread, but people were using the other one to try and dismiss) to highlight that single angle doesn't show the full story.
On the contrary, if you look where his hands are and how they're position the shirt can only lift up if it's trapped between Casemiro's hand and Hughes' neck. Which means he's got his hands around his neck.
You don't grab a shirt with your thumb stretched out one direction and your fingers another, you only do that if the thing you're holding is bigger than that... lets say, neck sized?
Because if you actually look at all the angles it's apparent Casemiro doesn't have hold of Hughes' collar, he's got hold of his neck and the collar is just caught between the two.
From the video they showed on TV and which the ref saw I thought it was an obvious red, and I initially voted as such - but a couple of the other video clips that have since been posted show that he was just holding Hughes by his collar and not actually by his throat - therefore I don't think it should be a red.
Give up.
It's not in the same Galaxy as when Stam took the throat of Vieira. It seems more as if he's holding him off and he does hold up his other hand a second later as if to indicate he wants things to calm down.
Anyhow, I think the worst offense there by far was Schlupp intentionally pushing Antony off the pitch and then standing over him like a cnut which incited the whole thing.
If we lose him for 3 matches that's Leeds home and away plus Leicester at home. It's a stinger for sure and an opportunity for McTominay to play for his United career.
Anyhow, I think the worst offense there by far was Schlupp intentionally pushing Antony off the pitch and then standing over him like a cnut which incited the whole thing.
If we lose him for 3 matches that's Leeds home and away plus Leicester at home. It's a stinger for sure and an opportunity for McTominay to play for his United career.
How can anything be apparent when one angle clearly shows him holding the collar and not grabbing him by the throat? You can't send someone off because one angle looks bad while another one doesn't.
You are wasting your time. It’s his brain, isn’t it?
It should be relevant if you're sending someone off for violent conduct.
What about one? Is that okay?
They've just slowed down two seconds of footage and put it loop to make it look worse than it is. Mental.
And there's other footage showing Hughes and Casemiro laughing it off towards the end.
You don't need to tell me you've "given up", you just need to not bother to reply
Because they inform each other. One shows him "grabbing" the collar, but the other shows that he wasn't actually grabbing the collar, he was grabbing the neck and the collar came with. You can send someone off if a second angle informs on the first.
No.
The rules for violent conduct when it comes to the head/face are much lower bar, the contact only has to not be negligible. Nobody is suggesting Casemiro was trying to kill Hughes Homer Simpson style, but that's not the bar for a red card.
Does anybody remember if Mark Noble was sent off or disciplined for this?
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Anyway. There’s enough ground for FA to keep side with the ref in this one. Not worth the appeal, but the club definitely needs to di something. We’ve been screwed so many times after that fecking City’s goal.
Yeah, but 40% think Case was trying to murder Hughes but somehow the two found the peace with each other
Well, I am exaggerating here of course. But, it does unfortunately remind me the votings to sell Rashford.
So he grabbed his neck and then in the very next second let go and grabbed his shirt?
he’s clearly grabbing his shirt shown in the picture above. I shouldn’t keep replying but I’m actually amazed
What it reminds you of is making things up, which is what you're doing.Yeah, but 40% think Case was trying to murder Hughes but somehow the two found the peace with each other
Well, I am exaggerating here of course. But, it does unfortunately remind me the votings to sell Rashford.
So despite it happening in at least one game a weekend no one gets sent off for it? How is it not okay then?
If we appeal and lose his ban gets extended doesn't it? Probably best leaving it, we should be able to deal with Leeds and Leicester without him.
The shirt moves because it's between Casemiro's hand and Hughes' neck. Casemiro's hand is in an L shape, his thumbs stacked on the center of Hughes' neck. You don't grab a pieces of fabric with an L shaped hand.
People do get sent off for it, there's been multiple examples in this thread already.
As for why everyone doesn't, inconsistent and poor refereeing.
It’s a joke. The entire point of not clamping down on these brawls is because one sending off could mean 3/4 red cards in the same scuffle. As long as everyone is settled and it’s just handbags then you dish out yellow cards and call the captains over.
It’s a busy body red card. You look at it and say it’s a red if it’s given but it shouldn’t be given. They’re lucky it’s just one other red card that should have been giving that was ignored, could easily have had 3/4 red cards for absolutely nothing that the players had already made peace with
Ha ha! I have given up on you. There was a time (a few minutes ago) when I thought maybe you might soften your stance but then (a few minutes after that) I realised you just never will, no matter what. Or would you relent if we appeal and it gets overturned? Academic, no doubt.You don't need to tell me you've "given up", you just need to not bother to reply
Because they inform each other. One shows him "grabbing" the collar, but the other shows that he wasn't actually grabbing the collar, he was grabbing the neck and the collar came with. You can send someone off if a second angle informs on the first.
No.
The rules for violent conduct when it comes to the head/face are much lower bar, the contact only has to not be negligible. Nobody is suggesting Casemiro was trying to kill Hughes Homer Simpson style, but that's not the bar for a red card.
This. And only this.
There is no other discussion other Ayew not being sent off too