I can't question your knowledge on the player as I know little about him myself, just seen and heard the odd bit here and there, but does his lack of football over the last season have anything to do with his current form for England? You have to play regularly to keep your form do you not?
Solanke to Liverpool
- Thread starter DenisIrwin
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It's possible of course. It isn't that he plays badly for England he just doesn't look anything special IMO in the older age groups. I haven't seen any of the U20 World Cup so far, however.
Just saw some youtube clips of the U20 tournament. He does look a bit static and for his height never actually jumps for a header. What's that all about?
Plays so much like Origi its depressing. Hopefully its just from rustiness of not playing the whole season.
Plays so much like Origi its depressing. Hopefully its just from rustiness of not playing the whole season.
How tall is he?
Looks head and shoulders taller than the rest of the England kids, and the opposition. Easily over 6ft, say around 6'1" or 6'2". Like I say, just like Origi.
Wasn't Origi a potential world beater a short while ago?Looks head and shoulders taller than the rest of the England kids, and the opposition. Easily over 6ft, say around 6'1" or 6'2". Like I say, just like Origi.
Didn't look all that impressive to me.
And Ibe. Twice bitten.
He looked like he could be special last season. Really good hold up play and rapid pace to burn. That's a rare combo in a striker.
This season his holdup play has gone to shit. He has no presence to speak of. Doesn't seem to make that good use of his pace either. Don't know what happened, but he's regressed a lot.
He hasn't regressed, he's playing at his true level. You bought an average player who had some good flashes. He was never going to keep it a little longer.
That is a possibility.
Well he clearly isn't 'playing at his level' because last season he had a very good 6 months where he was playing considerably better than the 2nd half of this season - so that isn't a flash in the pan. He also still scored at a faster 'goals per mins played' this season (1: 214 mins ) than either Martial (1: 388 mins) or Rashford (1: 343 mins) so for a striker isn't that important ? I'm not suggesting he has a higher ceiling and Rashford especially offers far more on the pitch.
However it also can't be denied that he's been poor to average, bar the odd game, since Xmas. I'm not sure what's going on with him - maybe the pressure got to him. Next season is certainly make or break for him though, he's never going to be a 'world-beater', to use the term someone mentioned above, however he could still be a very valuable player, say one in the £35-40m bracket, we've had offers over £20m from France for him already this Summer.
Well said. Sometimes it just clicks for a player and they get it altogether and move on a level as a player, simply never happened for Origi.
He can't blame Klopp who has given him able opportunity and obviously has previous in bringing through strikers to a world class level.
He is if you've been following him more than just at Liverpool. Football doesn't happen only in England.
Do you not think that Liverpool supporters followed him for the year he stayed at Lille after we bought him and loaned him back - seriously ? I've never watched so many Lille matches in my life. Where he was mostly played wide left BTW. He has been better for Liverpool, for a few months of his time here, than at anytime in France.
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Looked like that was what happened last season. He's still only young and all.
He's had more opportunities than he deserved whilst sturridge was sat on the bench and doing nothing with them this season. Must be amazing in training or something.
I heard he turned down RM, Barca, and adoption by Elon Musk.
I honestly don't think because otherwise you'd all realize he wasn't that special but anyway all the more reasons to think that it was never his true level the few months he did well for your team. Just like Mahrez had one good season in his footballing career but on a shorter term. It takes more than 6-10 months of quality to truly be considered a class and talented players. Origi is just plain average.
This season Origi played as CF; Martial and Rashford played as wingers except very few games. So odd to compare Origi with them on goals scored.
Actually our forward line is far more fluid than United's which has a more rigid structure, so if you watched many games in which Origi played then you'd notice that he spends as much time wide left as he does in the centre. In others he was clearly on the left as Firmino was centre. As far as 'actual' time spent 'in the centre' I doubt there is actually too much difference (mins played in the PL : Martial 1554, Rashford 1717, Origi 1499) but it's not really possible to calculate an exact number of mins played there either way !
Opinions. We all have one. Time will tell, I'm on the fence.
I'm going to be honest and say that I seriously doubt he's going to make it at Liverpool. If he was looking for game time, he should have moved to a smaller club and if - big if - he's good enough, then worked his way back to a top club.
CF drifting wide is very different from winger who moves centrally. One of them is they stay wide to provide width and also have to help fullbacks defensively.
Which is exactly what our wide players do .. note Mane and whoever is wide left (Coutinho, Origi, Firmino) dropping back to help out the FBs.
Origi played most games as CF(not even sure if he played as winger at all), not sure it's even debatable. Comparing him to Martial and Rashford who played almost every game as wingers is laughable.
Just to make sure. Played 1 games as LW.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/divock-origi/leistungsdaten/spieler/148368
Only if you ignore our fluid style of play. Any Liverpool fan can tell you Origi spent a fair amount of time on the left. How many games did Rashford play central ? Certainly when Ibra was out and before that in other games too ?
I played with him at school for a few years, always had really good potential I think he will do well at Pool.
Rashford played as CF in the games Zlatan didn't play(so before his injury it's very rare), after Zlatan injury Rashford was rested in few games and Martial Rooney played as strikers.
Like I said, fluid doesn't mean he was playing as winger. Check his heat map.
If you have his heat maps for all 34 games he was involved in I will check. Link ?
You can check in whoscored.com
Time always tells but so far it's a fact that he's hasn't impressed that much except for a few months which is never enough to be considered anything. This is why young players who gets labelled too quickly can be dangerous (M'Bappé being an example), they should at least reproduce a 2nd season of similar levels.
People already giving up on Origi? Kid is 22 and scored 11 goals this season, among them some really key ones like the one at home against Sunderland. Not to mention he didn't feature heavily until injuries started messing with squad balance in the second half of the season. Look at his stats, then compare them to young forwards we've featured previously, he's clearly much better at it than N'Gog or Carroll ever were.
Of course people are going to suggest 11 in 43 is a bad return, and it may be if you play 90 minutes, and not just nick appearances by getting on the pitch in the 80th minute simply to press the defence and give your own defence a breather, which is basically what his role was before the injuries.
As for Solanke, he probably won't feature too much, but he does look like a proper forward, very strong, fairly quick with his movement, instinctive in the final third, should probably work on finishing but outside of that he looks incredibly mature for 19. I don't care what anyone says, for 3 million you're not supposed to get a talent like that in this day and age, so good business as long as he gets to play.
I'm really not convinced about our transfer priorities though, as I've previously noted, FSG tend to deceive when it comes to it. This is a really key transfer window due to the opportunity of CL, and yet I expect us to read the classic headlines like "Liverpool pull out of the VVD/Keita race", "Liverpool question VVD/Keita dedication" etc.
It's always the same really.
1. offer the club a fee
2. club rejects it because its unrealistically low (repeat 4 times)
3. offer a new fee, club says yes
4. talk to player about a deal
5. player and agent agree verbally
6. restructure wages so that the value player gets is league two-tier while higher earnings depend entirely on his performance
7. player is angry and signs for tottenham/chelsea/man united
8. LiverpoolEcho features headlines about how the club was never interested in the player anyway, or they portray the player as a greedy B-lister who will fail at the rival club anyway
9. Repeat forever.
Of course people are going to suggest 11 in 43 is a bad return, and it may be if you play 90 minutes, and not just nick appearances by getting on the pitch in the 80th minute simply to press the defence and give your own defence a breather, which is basically what his role was before the injuries.
As for Solanke, he probably won't feature too much, but he does look like a proper forward, very strong, fairly quick with his movement, instinctive in the final third, should probably work on finishing but outside of that he looks incredibly mature for 19. I don't care what anyone says, for 3 million you're not supposed to get a talent like that in this day and age, so good business as long as he gets to play.
I'm really not convinced about our transfer priorities though, as I've previously noted, FSG tend to deceive when it comes to it. This is a really key transfer window due to the opportunity of CL, and yet I expect us to read the classic headlines like "Liverpool pull out of the VVD/Keita race", "Liverpool question VVD/Keita dedication" etc.
It's always the same really.
1. offer the club a fee
2. club rejects it because its unrealistically low (repeat 4 times)
3. offer a new fee, club says yes
4. talk to player about a deal
5. player and agent agree verbally
6. restructure wages so that the value player gets is league two-tier while higher earnings depend entirely on his performance
7. player is angry and signs for tottenham/chelsea/man united
8. LiverpoolEcho features headlines about how the club was never interested in the player anyway, or they portray the player as a greedy B-lister who will fail at the rival club anyway
9. Repeat forever.
Ibe was never a world beater, most Liverpool fans developed an innate need to compare his potential to Sterling because of the City move. Ibe has great physical attributes but absolutely nothing upstairs and thats the difference between playing at the top level and just playing at a decent level. Sterling however for his age and size had excellent strength, descision making and technical ability. He didnt just steam roller through our youth sides he transferred that to the first team and pretty much everyone who had ever seen him knew he would, kid was an exceptional talent.
Origi looked great in a different system last year. This year he came back late for pre-season and not only did we change the system but we opted for Firmino as a lone front man and the way we play with him in the team is drastically different to how Origi plays. So whenever Origi comes in to the side he tries to replicate that and drops off like Firmino and links/interplays but too often he doesnt know where he needs to run and where his team mates expect him to be and so he ends up in limbo doing nothing. Last season he was holding it up, running the channels making typical striker runs, was stronger and much more agressive.
The talent is clearly there and for such a young player he has a very respectable goals to min ratio. He does however need to learn this pre-season imo in how to play this system and be effective in it. It seems like we'll go 4-3-3 again with an outside chance of using last years 4-2-3-1. I dont think we'll play the diamond unless we keep Sturridge.
He has a lot of work to do but he has been a highly rated prospect since he was 14. Apparently all the top clubs had tapes on him. He might never reach that lofty World Class level and cause of timing/luck might not even make it with us, though I do think he will. But he'll have a career in one of the top leagues and he'll become a very good player.
Good post on all counts.
Spot on re. Ibe. He has all the physical attributes but simply no heart and nothing between the ears. Pity. We did very well to get £15m but he's doing OK for Bournemouth.
Ibe is not that bad. He's got tonnes of ability but is very raw. He could still grow into a very good player by his mid 20s.
Nothing signing
You're right for a change, £3m is indeed nothing for a club like Liverpool.
I hope he does okay just to stop them picking Sturridge with his stupid feckin' dance.
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