Film Solo: A Star Wars Story
- Thread starter harshad
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
So basically these last few movies are about as “progressive” in terms of storyline as the original trilogy or classics like Robin Hood. I mean, it’s all bog standard stuff. Powerful people abusing their power and plucky underdogs sticking up for the little guy. Which brings us back to the fact it’s a kids (at best, family) movie. If you’re looking for nuance, don’t watch a movie franchise full of lazer swords, battling teddy bears and comedy robot side-kicks.
And that’s being charitable. It’s hard not to suspect that a hell of a lot of the online backlash is fuelled by genuinely nasty undertones. You can’t ignore the way a nerd venn diagram which includes misogynist/racist pricks who spend a lot of time on fourchan and/or arguing about gamergate is likely to also include a hell of a lot of Star Wars fans.
And that’s being charitable. It’s hard not to suspect that a hell of a lot of the online backlash is fuelled by genuinely nasty undertones. You can’t ignore the way a nerd venn diagram which includes misogynist/racist pricks who spend a lot of time on fourchan and/or arguing about gamergate is likely to also include a hell of a lot of Star Wars fans.
Last edited:
You'll probably find people can easily ignore things you just imagine in your head.
Otherwise known as concepts. This isn’t a hard one to grasp, surely?
Ben Shapiro also had an issue with Rose and Finn having compassion for the animals. Congrats on being a scumbag.
Glad we finally got some sort of example laid out to pull the veil away a bit. There’s only one poster hiding behind their keyboard.
Glad we finally got some sort of example laid out to pull the veil away a bit. There’s only one poster hiding behind their keyboard.
Nobody's saying there aren't misogynist/racist cnuts out there, far from it.
But Nerdrage is what you're dealing with here in the main and with Star Wars it tends to be above & beyond others, but the main cause of the rage is always what's done to the source of the obsession.
That accounts for the huge amount of stick Hayden Christensen, Jake Lloyd & George Lucas took for the prequels. And i'd say Rian Johnson has taken more stick than any of the current crop.
Hayden Christensen took stick because he was wooden as feck.
He was awful.
He was awful.
Fair point. But it does seem that nerdrage has coalesced into a more specifically misogynist/racist movement in the post gamergate/Trump era (i.e. since the prequels). It certainly seems more overt anyway. I might be imagining this, mind you.
He was okayish on the third movie, but my Gosh, his performance on Attack might just be the worst performance ever from an actor. It was genuinely terrible.
Of course, having a script about sand didn't help, and George Lucas is to be blamed probably even more. I mean, he managed to make Samuel L. Jackson look like an idiot in the entire trilogy, that is an achievement on itself. Kind of crazy that from all actors, maybe just McGregor, McDiarmid, Neeson and maybe Lee weren't awful. Portman and Jackson sucked, while Lloyd and Christensen were just awful.
On the plus side, he did a nice wee dragback during Soccer Aid 2018.
Although his penalties seem to be as bad as his acting...
Although his penalties seem to be as bad as his acting...
Possibly, but they also have more ways to broadcast their shite & direct access to those involved now too.
Yeah, true.
I think its more subjective in a way. hard core fans are also getting riled up by Kathleen's and Rian's rhetoric "the force is female"(completely unnecessary) and that she does not need to cater to male audiences, "the male fans are threatened by women" etc
You can't attack or alienate one of your core audiences, especially the type that are likely to buy the merch and lots of tickets to see it multiple times and their mates. The business should come 1st.
Many of these fanboys loved Leia and in the clone wars, Asajj Ventress was hailed as one of the fan favourites. She was a woman of course but had an interesting design and backstory to the fans, so they loved her. In the expanded universe, Jaina solo was all well received (she was daughter to Han and Leia)
Actually its more about making interesting characters as well as that the male characters were portrayed as being pathetic and weak.
If you think about it, these nerds grow up seeing Luke and Han as bad asses by episode 6. They then see Luke a broken, bitter fool who gets beat by an untrained girl who just had a stick. Han Solo is a broken father with a whiny Emo son. Regarding that emo son, he is the alternative to Darth Vadar (who was a scary, overbearing villain). Kylo got beat by an untrained young girl so he is now permanently weak in their eyes, and unworthy.
Finn's story was boring, Po was constantly belittled by the purple haired woman, Luke and Han die etc.
The female ones are also a bit dry to be fair. In fact, non of the characters are interesting. Its a bad story overall. What the hell happened to the platinum coated lady soldier ? her character did nada!!
Animals cannot be enslaved. Its a term reserved for humans being worked without remuneration. This was an action film. People wanted to see animals and people getting blown up by Death Stars and shit. Not saved, for the sake of "feelings"
Over dramatic much. Its a movie bud. No time for this in an action adventure. the animals were not real so Ben is fine. Darth Vadar blew up a planet with 6 billion people in the old ones. But guess what, its not real so none of us who enjoyed that plot are actual "scumbags"
This is a film series where animals are given big roles though. Chewbacca is an animal, and yet he's clearly an intelligent one. The idea they can be enslaved doesn't seem particularly absurd in a universe where animals are given a greater level of sentience than normal humans.
Luke at the end of TLJ manages to save the entire rebellion through his actions, and is clearly shown as a fecking ridiculously advanced force user in how he's able to manipulate everyone into thinking he's somewhere he isn't. In the originals he does plenty of badass stuff, yeah, but he's also whiny as feck in ANH, and spends most of ESB failing constantly and getting beaten until he gets his arse handed to him by Vader at the end. This itself is a bit of a bizarre complaint though in that the most common complaint about Rey is that she's too perfect.
I don't necessarily disagree with a lot of the complaints to be fair. Most of the new characters are alright but fairly naff, mostly played safe and derivative versions of the OT characters. The films themselves have been okay without being brilliant. But certain complaints of political agendas seem a bit bizarre, and picking on what a producer has said in a couple of comments kind of points to that. Again...I'm yet to see concrete political agendas being forced on people in the movie.
Rian Johnson is quoted as saying "there needs to be less white men in star wars" why is anything based off of their gender and race?
Luke was unspectacular. he did a force illusion and just died. A ridiculous force user would be like Yoda and Palpatine, owning people with back flips, hacks slashes and throwing heavy machinery around like cotton buds. Think about this. remember the Yoda Sidious fight? That's ridiculous force users. In fact, Anakin was supposed to become the most powerful force user until he got cut up. Luke has his same potential so he should in theory have surpassed Palpatine. Yet he died so weakly. The video below, see how Palpatine differs so much in power to the current Luke. I am not even a super fan, yet I expected much more from his character development.
I thought he was fine compared to the other actors. The script and direction were the problem. Natalie Portman and Ewan McGregor weren’t any better.
Yeah if you read his lines on paper it's hard to see what you can do with them (I hate sand...). Better actors than him have failed to deliver awful lines.
I've looked that up and Johnson says there should be more diversity in who directs Star Wars, because it always tends to be white guys. I don't think that's particularly controversial or inflammatory.
I'm not going to get too into the mythology, but the original films (i.e. the ones everyone likes) were never about impressive back-flips or fighting choreography and instead about how Luke/Vader etc all felt the force. The Yoda/Sidious fight is mostly CGI nonsense. Luke sacrificing himself and reconciling himself with the force by pulling off arguably the most impressive jedi trick yet resonates with me far more than that does. Yoda looked fecking ridiculous in his fights.
A wild Phil Greaves appeared!
1:Engage 2:Mock
3:Play golf 4:Run
Referencing this GOAT tweet:
A wild Phil Greaves appeared!
1:Engage 2:Mock
3:Play golf 4:Run
Referencing this GOAT tweet:
I'm pretty sure Corbyn followed him on twitter for a long time which is sort of amazing.
Last edited:
I just found that whole thread, fecking hell.A wild Phil Greaves appeared!
1:Engage 2:Mock
3:Play golf 4:Run
Referencing this GOAT tweet:
In the wide shots you can almost see the person pushing square for Palpatine's slashes.I've looked that up and Johnson says there should be more diversity in who directs Star Wars, because it always tends to be white guys. I don't think that's particularly controversial or inflammatory.
I'm not going to get too into the mythology, but the original films (i.e. the ones everyone likes) were never about impressive back-flips or fighting choreography and instead about how Luke/Vader etc all felt the force. The Yoda/Sidious fight is mostly CGI nonsense. Luke sacrificing himself and reconciling himself with the force by pulling off arguably the most impressive jedi trick yet resonates with me far more than that does. Yoda looked fecking ridiculous in his fights.
The whole point of the Empire Strikes Back is Lukes failure.
He also, unlike Rey has to learn what the force is, how to control it, how to master it, before he is ready to face his nemesis.
Rey on the other hand, puts a different shirt on and is good to go facing two of most powerful and evil people in the Galaxy, despite being a homeless bum who showed no affinity with the force less than 7 days earlier.
Oh, and she can speak Astromech, despite never owning one, and is fluent in Wookie, despite only knowing one for a couple of days.
And is coincidently an incredible pilot and a master swordsman, with no training at all.
Its a load of old bollocks.
I think it might be the Windu fight where the CGI on McDiarmid is quite obviously terrible to the point where it just doesn't look natural at all. I'll take Yoda warping on about learning to feel the force or something over that.
Well, yes, but then the above post is complaining that Luke wasn't badass enough in TLJ and failed too often. Which runs contrary to what you're saying here, and demonstrates that a lot of the complaints are mostly just being twisted to suit constantly changing arguments.
I don't think Rey's a particularly great character, per se. She's mostly a cardboard cutout version of what's gone before for the most part. But then the specific complaining over her seems a bit bizarre when Marvel and DC films are filled with close to perfect heroes all the time. She does have some internal flaws too - reluctant to embrace her role as a hero in TFA, manipulated in TLJ, and in denial about her past.
Looking through it, it seems most of the mocking replies are either blocked or deletedI just found that whole thread, fecking hell.
There were some great ones.
I like the way Astromech language is apparently a proprietary thing that you can only get the hang of by owning that particular brand. The Apple of a galaxy far, far away.
I mean to be fair, there are definitely some interesting discussions to be had over some of the views popular films present, and how they (perhaps) problematically present them. Especially with a lot of older popular films that perhaps haven't aged well. Indeed I actually remember being mildly convinced by a post somewhere that suggested Nolan's TDK series was at worst fascist and at best very reactionary in a conservative way over how it regarded technology, the common people etc. Even if it's still a trilogy I enjoy immensely.Looking through it, it seems most of the mocking replies are either blocked or deleted
There were some great ones.
But yeah, just labeling everything and anything fascist isn't at all helpful. And will rightfully result in plenty of ridicule.
The problem with Luke in the TLJ, is he did very little, what he did do was out completly out of character, and then he died completely pointlessly.
How much better would it have been instead of the idiotic death by force constipation, he had least done.... something.
The difference with the Marvel heros, and its the same with virtually all of them, is that they get beaten, they have to work for their victories, they have character flaws (Civil War is a grest example of that, none of them can see the woods for the trees from either side) Batman, is flawed at least the best interpretations of him are, yet Rey...
Rey hasnt had to work for anything, everybody in the films straight away loves her, she gets her powers with no effort, she gets her victories with no effort, she experiences no setbacks she is awesome at everything, with no price.
Even Neo from the Matrix, a virtual (virtual god) who could manipulate himself and the environment to his whim, had to pay a price for his power, experienced loss and defeat, and came back to win.
Yeah I remember seeing something similar with Batman stuff online somewhereI mean to be fair, there are definitely some interesting discussions to be had over some of the views popular films present, and how they (perhaps) problematically present them. Especially with a lot of older popular films that perhaps haven't aged well. Indeed I actually remember being mildly convinced by a post somewhere that suggested Nolan's TDK series was at worst fascist and at best very reactionary in a conservative way over how it regarded technology, the common people etc. Even if it's still a trilogy I enjoy immensely.
But yeah, just labeling everything and anything fascist isn't at all helpful. And will rightfully result in plenty of ridicule.
.Distrust Of The General Public - Harvey lying to public saying he is the Batman, the Commissioner faking his own death, the lie that it was Batman who killed Harvey Dent and the police officers. This points toward a reactionary view that in grand scheme of things the general population can't be trusted with the truth and that to maintain political progress this lying is required. And of course the main goal of the villain is to expose the emptiness of these lies.
.The Necessary Evil/Greater Good - Very similar to the point about the distrust of the general public, the film presents many moments where characters have complete disregard for basic law - The use of surveillance, the writing of warrants based on no evidence and foreign diplomacy. The justification being that while it's course morally wrong to disregard these rules it is a sad essential to stopping the bad guy, so us good guys must use it(And yes all of this must be done in secret because of the distrust of the general public).
.The Charismatic Technocrat/Political Reforms - The film has a hard on for this type of character, the district attorney Harvey Dent literally punches and disarms a mob member attempting a assassination in a court room like he's Bond and even ending it with a one liner that makes the court burst out in applauds. Gary Oldman playing the lone moral and self sacrificing figure in a corrupt organisation. Bruce Wayne is the original tech billionaire inventor jesus, a cross between Michael Bloomberg and Elon Musk(The sort of guy who is pro gay marriage but will taser any black kid who comes within 100 meters of Wayne tower). And political reforms in the film are achieved not through mass moment or mass organising but through the sheer acts and will of individual technocrats- district attorneys, lawyers, judges, police chiefs and of course billionaire tech guy.
.Corrupt Political Institutions - Throughout the film there's a open acceptance that are fundamental corrupt institutions (The commissioner police unit)but instead of critiquing the institution or offering a possible alternative, the film instead shows there firstly isn't a alternative and secondly that the most noble and best thing to do is try and reform the corrupt institution from the inside(which plays back into the charismatic technocrat).
The fact you can get this type of analysis from the film makes me enjoy it far more.
.The Necessary Evil/Greater Good - Very similar to the point about the distrust of the general public, the film presents many moments where characters have complete disregard for basic law - The use of surveillance, the writing of warrants based on no evidence and foreign diplomacy. The justification being that while it's course morally wrong to disregard these rules it is a sad essential to stopping the bad guy, so us good guys must use it(And yes all of this must be done in secret because of the distrust of the general public).
.The Charismatic Technocrat/Political Reforms - The film has a hard on for this type of character, the district attorney Harvey Dent literally punches and disarms a mob member attempting a assassination in a court room like he's Bond and even ending it with a one liner that makes the court burst out in applauds. Gary Oldman playing the lone moral and self sacrificing figure in a corrupt organisation. Bruce Wayne is the original tech billionaire inventor jesus, a cross between Michael Bloomberg and Elon Musk(The sort of guy who is pro gay marriage but will taser any black kid who comes within 100 meters of Wayne tower). And political reforms in the film are achieved not through mass moment or mass organising but through the sheer acts and will of individual technocrats- district attorneys, lawyers, judges, police chiefs and of course billionaire tech guy.
.Corrupt Political Institutions - Throughout the film there's a open acceptance that are fundamental corrupt institutions (The commissioner police unit)but instead of critiquing the institution or offering a possible alternative, the film instead shows there firstly isn't a alternative and secondly that the most noble and best thing to do is try and reform the corrupt institution from the inside(which plays back into the charismatic technocrat).
The fact you can get this type of analysis from the film makes me enjoy it far more.
Er....anyone got phil number might text him a few of my thoughts.
Yep was along those lines. Lying to the common people for a greater good being the main one. Certainly an interesting perspective.
As much as I love a good lightsaber fight and I'm annoyed that there's not more of them in the new trilogy*, I think you missed the point of what he did somewhat.
Palpatine's great power wasn't shown by lightsaber fighting with Yoda or Windu, it was hiding from the Jedi right under their noses. He was so strong in the Force that he could hide from the Jedi while manipulating them right to their faces. The lightsaber fights came about out of necessity and he'd have avoided them if he could, look at the state they left him in. Windu beat him (this might trigger Revan), yet Palpatine was much stronger in the Force. He didn't even really win either of his actual fights for all the spinning and flipping. Although he did kill a few Jedi. You could argue the fights make him look slightly weaker just by having them, as powerful as he was in them.
The Jedi code was about peace, they were supposed to avoid conflict unless given no option. Part of Windu's character is that he isn't perfect, because he likes to fight and had to develop his Force powers and fighting style to compensate for that. That's half the problem with Anakin (and Luke to an extent), he's too rash and wants to solve things by fighting when Jedi should be looking for a peaceful solution.
In Luke's fight with Vader in RotJ he was at his weakest when he got goaded into beating the shit out of Vader and lopping his arm off instead of just holding his own like he had been doing. He was at his strongest when he threw the lightsaber away and embraced peace. He showed Anakin the Jedi way again.
The Jedi way was to be able to fight, but not have to use it. Fight without fighting, like a lot of martial arts. So Luke going out the way he did, saving the rebellion without hurting anyone or even raising a weapon, from light years away was really the ultimate show of Force power for a Jedi. He completely schooled Kylo and won without fighting, while passing the torch off to the last person he trained. Just like Obi Wan did. Luke didn't need to be backflipping around the place to look spectacular, Obi Wan barely moved in Episode 4 and died by letting Vader chop him down after they poked at each other for a minute or two. He didn't need to be physically spectacular and neither did Luke. Luke in the end went out like the Jedi he and his father had tried to be, but often struggled to live up to. He embraced peace and won. Luke was never perfect, but in the end he was the hero he needed to be.
As much as I love lightsaber fights they really aren't a show of power for most of the Sith or Jedi except as a purely visual medium. Only really for Anakin, Darth Maul and to an extent Windu are they where the true power lies.
*They would probably just end up with Rey twatting everyone anyway. Donnie Yen as a blind Jedi having lightsaber fights would have been awesome though, wasted opportunity that was.
Each to their own I guess. I didn't see a force illusion as that impressive. Especially when Yoda came back from the dead and was able to destroy things in the material world!I've looked that up and Johnson says there should be more diversity in who directs Star Wars, because it always tends to be white guys. I don't think that's particularly controversial or inflammatory.
I'm not going to get too into the mythology, but the original films (i.e. the ones everyone likes) were never about impressive back-flips or fighting choreography and instead about how Luke/Vader etc all felt the force. The Yoda/Sidious fight is mostly CGI nonsense. Luke sacrificing himself and reconciling himself with the force by pulling off arguably the most impressive jedi trick yet resonates with me far more than that does. Yoda looked fecking ridiculous in his fights.
The novelisation of return of the sith paints a different picture about Palpatine as it reflects Yoda's thought during the battle with Yoda. The constant is that Palpatine is actually stronger than Yoda and he cannot possibly win. He intimates that he is the most powerful darksider he has every come across and cannot fathom how someone so strong was able to emerge. The Jedi he killed were actually Jedi Masters, one of which Kit Fisto was one of the best with a sabre.
My housemate is an expert on this universe and tells me (with good faith) Windu beat him because he has a unique light sabre style (Vaapad) that is ideal for dark sider fights.
In Luke's fight with Vader, he overpowered Vadar when he tapped into the dark side actually. The goading by Vader made him angry and he slipped into the dark and gained more power. He was actually at this strongest then.
Luke shouldn't be compared to Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan was a 70 year old man who constantly got slapped in the previous movies. By right, Luke should've surpassed, Yoda, Palpatine and Snoke. Anakin was destined to surpass all (the chosen one) and become the strongest in history. Luke possessed his same potential and actually grew old enough to realise it. Turns out he grew weak. I agree he went out in a peaceful manner and does not need to be backflipping (i was getting carried away) but part of being a Knight and owning a blade is that you have to fight sometimes. They're not mere priests or monks. In return of the Jedi, Luke rolled up to Jaba, sword in hand and was bitch slapping everyone in his path. He then overpowered his own father, one of the strongest, scariest villains in history. Yoda could lift a ship with his mind. Fast forward and Luke can barely hold a sabre.
EDIT: I see what you mean about Luke being at his weakest when he gave into the darkside as I misread you. I agree that was his weak point. I meant most powerful.
Overall I feel Luke at his age would have more to offer being alive than dead. Rey is still fairly green and Luke is potentially the most powerful ally they can possibly have in their fight against the 1st order. Even Yoda went to battle when the time came
Last edited:
TLJ was a victim of its reviews, I think. I remember one of the first I read talking positively about how white men were purposely pushed to one side. They weren't of course - that was just a journalist mouthing the shibboleths of his (I think) tribe - but it's understandable that someone who has grown up with Star Wars and is now being told its not for him might react negatively. The likes of Buzzfeed and the Guardian do a lot of harm.
Really, it was just a film where anyone can be a hero and probably my favourite SW film after Empire. (And anyone that bothered about animals being freed from abuse is looking for things to object to or some sort of pseudo-intellectual twat like Ben Shapiro.)
Solo was okay. I preferred the second half. The actor was good.
Really, it was just a film where anyone can be a hero and probably my favourite SW film after Empire. (And anyone that bothered about animals being freed from abuse is looking for things to object to or some sort of pseudo-intellectual twat like Ben Shapiro.)
Solo was okay. I preferred the second half. The actor was good.
I was told by my work colleagues that its really good. My 2 mates in my team said its great. I watched it and fought it was average or less. I feel its a victim of the fanbase's expectations as they had an entire expanded universe (now called legends) which was canon, then it got reversed in the most dramatic way, and many of the hardcore fans cannot accept this.
you preferred this to return of the Jedi??? that film was boss.
Triggered.
Still feel that Palps was just throwing a show for Anakin. We saw his real power when he owned Yoda, while against Windu he wasn't even using Force powers. If he had used Force powers (bar lightning), no idea how Windu would have managed to handle him. Also, the three Jedis he killed were actually members of the high Council.
Luke was weak despite his grand moment in the Last Jedi. He should have been at least a bit stronger than Yoda and Sidious. Anakin had higher potential than them, and Luke had the same as Anakin.
We are on agreement on many points, especially Luke. I don't agree with the Windu part though. Not only is Windu incredibly powerful and underrated, one of the top duelists in the order, you have to take into account the fighting location and style. They were in close quarters so there was little objects for Palpatine to toss around. He himself moved the fight with Yoda to the main room so that the fight became in his favour. In a close quarters sabre fight, he probably would have lost to Yoda. My house mate suggests that Windu has a better sabre style which allows him to overpower Sidious and didn't Lucas say in the commentary that Windu straight up overpowered Palpatine? his word is final.
Windu at first "lost" to palpatine when the sith's saber was pointing at him but for whatever reason he didn't make the kill - reasoning being to throw the show when anakin arrived, however a force weakness indicator that only windu had the skill to read appeared giving him an edge (shatter point is it?)
Still easily outclassing current stuff.