Solskjær’s Multi-Year Plan

[Jericholyte2]

I expect Pogba to leave and maybe DDG as well. Fred might as well. This is an endless "rebuilding" project especially with the funds given to us.

Yes, but in a similar vein, Klopp has done the same with Liverpool. His first season he had a couple of players and finished 8th, then spent wisely and is now in the top 2, without crazy spending, Robertson, Mane, Salah, Wijnaldum, Firmino all for less than £100m.

Granted we always have the Man Utd tax but we need to use that blueprint to get back to the top. We can see the effectiveness of Ole’s three signings so far, we just need the patience to get through 2-3 more windows where he can bring in his players with this same DNA then we should start seeing results.

 

[Greck]

In order to execute a multi year plan you have to deliver the bare minimum in the interim, short term results earn you a shot at the long term plan. You can't one of the biggest wage bills in world football, also got the chance to spend outrageous amounts on the defense and talk of multi year plans as if you are planning on taking Bournemouth from the 4th division. Failing to deliver two wins in a three game fixture list that had Wolves, Palace and Southampton is just not good enough at this level.

I am not full on Ole out but he would be naive if he thinks another 6th place finish will see him in the dug out next season. That would be Moyes like delusion.

Yeah I honestly get the vibe he seems oblivious to the reality of our current trajectory. Talking about long term vision before addressing the current relegation form is putting the cart before the horse. That we give him the reins to rebuild isn't cart blanche to get molly whopped by every bottom half team. He still has to show a semblance of managerial pedigree in the interim

 

[londonredmaniac]

Not having enough quality in the team was so obvious before the start of the season. If Ole thought otherwise, he is the wrong man for the job.

I hope he succeeds, we all do but if we fail again this season it will be on him.

That's nonsense though isn't it?

Everybody knows we are short on quality. There is no way anyone can think Ole is happy with the squad...that was evident in the players we were after we didn't get?

But, when he didnt get what he wanted...what was he supposed to do?? Throw a wobbly and tell the world the players he has aren't good enough? That's a great way to piss off your employers, alienate your squad (see Mourinho) and generally feck yourself before a ball is kicked.

Ole us certainly not beyond criticism, and he is rightly being called on what is not right that is under his control.

How can failure this season be 'on him'? If you think the major factor in the mess we are in currently is Ole? I can't get my head around that. He will have played a part no doubt but it is by no means 'on him'.

 

[In Rainbows]

Yes, but in a similar vein, Klopp has done the same with Liverpool. His first season he had a couple of players and finished 8th, then spent wisely and is now in the top 2, without crazy spending, Robertson, Mane, Salah, Wijnaldum, Firmino all for less than £100m.

Granted we always have the Man Utd tax but we need to use that blueprint to get back to the top. We can see the effectiveness of Ole’s three signings so far, we just need the patience to get through 2-3 more windows where he can bring in his players with this same DNA then we should start seeing results.

Thing that doesn't get brought up with regards to Klopp is that although he finished 8th, he clearly improved the side's attack. He had them at 55 goals, 2nd to Spurs' 58 goals in that time span. Prior to Klopp, they were 14th in goals scored. The season prior they were 7th in goals scored.

Clear attacking improvement which is very Klopp like.

 

[londonredmaniac]

Yeah I honestly get the vibe he seems oblivious to the reality of our current trajectory. Talking about long term vision before addressing the current relegation form is putting the cart before the horse. That we give him the reins to rebuild isn't cart blanche to get molly whopped by every bottom half team. He still has to show a semblance of managerial pedigree in the interim

Without doubt, which is why I think the criticism is valid in certain instances.

If we carry on with these results it wont matter what the plan is mid or long term. Ole needs to stop the rot in the first instance...

We've hardly been Molly Whopped (great terminology btw) but at times we have looked over run by sides you would expect us to be able to react to. Every side will have a spell in the game, but to watch us over run is frustrating.

 

[londonredmaniac]

Thing that doesn't get brought up with regards to Klopp is that although he finished 8th, he clearly improved the side's attack. He had them at 55 goals, 2nd to Spurs' 58 goals in that time span. Prior to Klopp, they were 14th in goals scored. The season prior they were 7th in goals scored.

Clear attacking improvement which is very Klopp like.

I think the Klopp CV before he became Liverpool manager helps though. Very attractive football at Dortmund, bought well and used their resources well...gave Bayern a run in a pretty one horse power house league.

Ole hasn't got that to the same degree, whilst not doing down his not inconsiderable job and achievement at Molde.

Is Ole going to be as good a manager as Klopp? Jury is going to be out a while.

 

[Bestietom]

Without doubt, which is why I think the criticism is valid in certain instances.

If we carry on with these results it wont matter what the plan is mid or long term. Ole needs to stop the rot in the first instance...

We've hardly been Molly Whopped (great terminology btw) but at times we have looked over run by sides you would expect us to be able to react to. Every side will have a spell in the game, but to watch us over run is frustrating.

Unless results change very quickly and we can mange to continue the rebuild in January by bringing in a couple of players
(Midfielder and Forward) I can see another manager going under the bus. This will continue to be the case until the Glazers and Woodward are gone.

 

[Alabaster Codify7]

Ole won't be here beyond the summer, probably more like January. He's not good enough and neither are this dross of a squad we've collated.

 

[Suvvernmanc]

That's nonsense though isn't it?

Everybody knows we are short on quality. There is no way anyone can think Ole is happy with the squad...that was evident in the players we were after we didn't get?

But, when he didnt get what he wanted...what was he supposed to do?? Throw a wobbly and tell the world the players he has aren't good enough? That's a great way to piss off your employers, alienate your squad (see Mourinho) and generally feck yourself before a ball is kicked.

Ole us certainly not beyond criticism, and he is rightly being called on what is not right that is under his control.

How can failure this season be 'on him'? If you think the major factor in the mess we are in currently is Ole? I can't get my head around that. He will have played a part no doubt but it is by no means 'on him'.

I've said in another thread that Ole could be the 'yes man' that Woody needs in charge to keep control better than when we had Jose kicking up dust. But if Ole hasn't got the balls to say it publicly that it was woody that's made the decision to let go Herrera, Lukaku and Sanchez go without bringing in a single replacement then it will be on him when it goes wrong. If he had any balls he would have said no to letting them go but its quite obvious he was keen to let them go.

He's said in a few of our press conferences that we have Greenwood and Chong coming through etc.. but they aren't getting the minutes. He decided to play Andreas at left wing yesterday instead of one of the kids which turned out to be a ridiculous decision as he was very poor.

Our lack of quality is very evident yes, we can all see that. My point is simple. Why is Ole happy with it? And if he isn't, just have the guts to say that it wasn't his decision and we can all see that its Woody playing 'football manager' with manchester United again.

My opinion is that Ole is just very happy that hes landed the United job and is happy to let Woody pull the strings behind the scenes even if it means some criticism coming his way.

Jose was toxic and I hated him towards the end but at least he had the balls to tell us that Woody was running the show and that the power was not in the 'managers' hands.

 

[MadMike]

Ole won't be here beyond the summer, probably more like January. He's not good enough and neither are this dross of a squad we've collated.

More or less my take on it. A United manager with a multi year plan won’t see even the first year of his plan out unless the team shows some improvement on previous form. After all, if the results are not improving, what is there to say that the plan isn’t a shite plan to begin with?

Any United manager needs to think short term too. Neither the owners nor the fan base are very patient or forgiving after 6 years of mediocrity.

 

[Denis79]

I just really hope he is given the time to build a squad, so far the signings have been excellent. I fear Woodward will sack him if we don't make top 4 though.

 

[Smores]

This is the new philosophy and foundation nonsense. Every time fans back a manager but reality doesn't meet expectations there's always this call to delay judgement because current results are apparently just part of a mythical process.

What i don't get is that this idea that our results just reflect our squad means Ole's initial results that got him the job were an anomaly. If that's the case his record is unforgivable.

 

[eire-red]

We need to have a 5 year plan as a club, not Ole's plan. If he's sacked, we can't be back to square one with a new manager with a different ideology and wanting different players.

There are some positives to take from what he has done so far, but he needs to deliver results on the pitch to have a shot of delivering any sort of plan. We need to have a blueprint of what we want to accomplish as a club, and should be agreed upon at all levels.

 

[minoo-utd]

Ole won't be here beyond the summer, probably more like January. He's not good enough and neither are this dross of a squad we've collated.

I think he just do what he has been asked for by the Glazers, they found their yes man so feck the result they will not sack him.

 

[AneRu]

On point I doubt that the board will grant him the necessary fans to rebuild if he keeps this form up and which serious player is going to want to join such a train wreck? Ole is not being asked to match title winning form, what he is achieving right now is not acceptable and he has to improve.

 

[RyRy11]

It’s been four games, and we haven’t even been bad in those four games. We’re on the right path but it’ll take time.

We've said this the last 6 years, I'm bored of it. Its just blind hope at this point. We are Manchester United, we shouldn't look bad against any team in world football, what people are upset about is that we don't look good either. Go watch Liverpool and City regularly put 3+ goals passed teams like Palace and Southampton and tell me we are on the right path.

 

[Skills]

Yes, but in a similar vein, Klopp has done the same with Liverpool. His first season he had a couple of players and finished 8th, then spent wisely and is now in the top 2, without crazy spending, Robertson, Mane, Salah, Wijnaldum, Firmino all for less than £100m.

Granted we always have the Man Utd tax but we need to use that blueprint to get back to the top. We can see the effectiveness of Ole’s three signings so far, we just need the patience to get through 2-3 more windows where he can bring in his players with this same DNA then we should start seeing results.

What? Klopp finished 8th the season he took over (along with a Europa League final & a League Cup final). Once he spent some money (after his first summer transfer window), he got them top 4.

 

[bsCallout]

I'm loving the signs i've seen so far. The results don't concern me too much.
We've been the better team in 3 out of the 4 games and the other was 50/50. Which we won tactically.

Score our penalties & we are looking completely different. Weakness identified early that will need to be managed(Lindelof heading).

And we've found out who is our number 9; Martial. Had Martial been on the pitch yesterday instead of Rashford we would have won comfortably. Rashford cannot lead the line. Hopefully Ole trusts Greenwood as the back-up no.9 and keeps Rashford wide.

I'm certain the results will come, and it will click in the final third. James is already looking much better in the final third and AWB has put in some wicked balls.

The only change I think NEEDS to happen, is for Gomes to be given a chance because the alternatives haven't taken theirs.

We've cleared the deadwood. We've performed better than last season and created so many more chances. We've also got one of the youngest squads/teams in the league.

Results are disappointing but they don't tell the story.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

just seeing "Solskjaer" and "multi year plan" in the same sentence makes me feel sick!

 

[youmeletsfly]

Yes, but in a similar vein, Klopp has done the same with Liverpool. His first season he had a couple of players and finished 8th, then spent wisely and is now in the top 2, without crazy spending, Robertson, Mane, Salah, Wijnaldum, Firmino all for less than £100m.

Granted we always have the Man Utd tax but we need to use that blueprint to get back to the top. We can see the effectiveness of Ole’s three signings so far, we just need the patience to get through 2-3 more windows where he can bring in his players with this same DNA then we should start seeing results.

I'm going to bookmark this and ask you this question in October after being 10th: Do you still have patience left?

Ole's issues lie in his team setup, not in what he can do in 2-3 windows. We live in the present not in the future. We can't afford to do a "Klopp" and finish 8th after consistently finishing 4-6th in the last few years.
I agree that we should find gems like Klopp did, but at this given moment we have bigger issues than that, like starting with Pogba and MCT in midfield, having no attacking plan, etc.

 

[RedCoffee]

Gary Neville sums it up perfectly for me

"I don't care about 25/10/5 [goals] at the moment," he said. "We just need players that want to play for the club. Strip it back to that and then build a team... That's what I want. It wil take some time to do though so patience will be needed."

 

[ArjenIsM3]

I'm going to bookmark this and ask you this question in October after being 10th: Do you still have patience left?

Ole's issues lie in his team setup, not in what he can do in 2-3 windows. We live in the present not in the future. We can't afford to do a "Klopp" and finish 8th after consistently finishing 4-6th in the last few years.
I agree that we should find gems like Klopp did, but at this given moment we have bigger issues than that, like starting with Pogba and MCT in midfield, having no attacking plan, etc.

Why can't we afford to do a Klopp? Liverpool's last five league finishes pre-Klopp were: 6th, 8th, 7th, 2nd, 6th. Then he came in and finished 8th, then 4th, 4th and finally 2nd. Seems they were in an even worse state than we are in right now but they could afford to give Klopp time and we can't do the same with Solskjaer?

 

[Buster15]

I think he just do what he has been asked for by the Glazers, they found their yes man so feck the result they will not sack him.

Yes exactly.
The irony is that this season, given the City and Liverpool are away and gone at the top, the rest of the pack have specific problems.
Tottenhams team ethos seems to be falling away.
Arsenal may actually be the best of the rest. But while their attack is very special, their midfield and defence looks average.
Chelsea look to be going through a transition with Lampard and the transfer ban.
So. If United had got their act together which they certainly have not then a third place finish should have been achieveable.
But the reality is that we may struggle for a top 6 place finish because we are still not working properly as a team and club.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Ole won't be here next year. They will just sack him and the cycle repeats. Until the club is sold we are heading for Everton status. A yesterday big club.

The way I'm feeling I'd welcome the Saudis with open arms right now. And that's something I never wanted to see. However the club is dieing. The debt and the Glazers desire to milk us combined with our total ineptitude at buying and selling is killing the club. We won't win another PL or CL title under their tenure. I can guarantee it.

City are going nowhere. Sad fact but they are here to stay with their oil cash. Time to join them? I fear it's getting to that point now.

Just time to take one on the chin for being hypocrites and get the glazers to sell to the highest bidders. With no more debt we will be a huge threat to city.

 

[Foxbatt]

Gary Neville sums it up perfectly for me

"I don't care about 25/10/5 [goals] at the moment," he said. "We just need players that want to play for the club. Strip it back to that and then build a team... That's what I want. It wil take some time to do though so patience will be needed."

Gary Neville is living in an alternate universe. We need players who are professional enough to play and win trophies. If the players are not obsessed with wining then no matter what they will just play.
Players who don't want to play for United is not going to come.
This is not 1992 and we do not have a Fergie as Manager. I want a manager who can win trophies and if so players are going to come.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Why can't we afford to do a Klopp? Liverpool's last five league finishes pre-Klopp were: 6th, 8th, 7th, 2nd, 6th. Then he came in and finished 8th, then 4th, 4th and finally 2nd. Seems they were in an even worse state than we are in right now but they could afford to give Klopp time and we can't do the same with Solskjaer?

How many times does this need to be answered. Compare Klopp's career pre Liverpool to Ole's pre Utd. Every club in Europe wanted Klopp when they appointed him, who the feck wanted Ole as their manager??

 

[ArjenIsM3]

How many times does this need to be answered. Compare Klopp's career pre Liverpool to Ole's pre Utd. Every club in Europe wanted Klopp when they appointed him, who the feck wanted Ole as their manager??

I disagree. We didn't give a top manager like LvG time either. Besides, yours would be an argument for not hiring Ole in the first place but he's already here. And now that he is we should stick with him

 

[momo83]

It's a poor start. I'm disappointed as anyone to be honest. You would have expected us to be at least 3 points better off. Early days this season, and though I'm not sold on Ole necessarily...I just feel like there are a ton of circumstances he isn't in control of.

The wage bill is really feck all to do with him, the overall quality of the squad is feck all to do with him..yet. the players he has brought in are good...which is a start.

But we need to put a run together, quickly.

He pushed out Lukaku and Fellaini and didn’t replace them. Yes, both players weren’t “United style players” and most fans including me wanted them out. But they were highly effective over the season getting rid of both is automatically taking 3 steps backwards, and then only if you replace them with players of equal/greater quality who match your style of play do you take 6 steps forward.

I think that showed the naivety of Solskjær, he got rid of one, made it clear to the other that he had no future and then couldn’t get replacements. Maybe a smarter manager would have realised that those two were effective, and first made sure he had replacements lined up.

Like a guy whose shoes become a bit tight but still wearable so he throws them away. But he only had one pair of shoes so now he has to go shopping barefoot. But when he gets there it’s bank holiday and everything’s closed.

 

[Mike Phelan's Former Tash]

Yeah I honestly get the vibe he seems oblivious to the reality of our current trajectory. Talking about long term vision before addressing the current relegation form is putting the cart before the horse. That we give him the reins to rebuild isn't cart blanche to get molly whopped by every bottom half team. He still has to show a semblance of managerial pedigree in the interim

Haha! So United, Chelsea and Spurs are going down this season then with their current form?

At least United and Chelsea have young squads so inconsistency is expected. What is the mighty Poch's excuse?

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

Pogba won't be here next season. Ole probably won't be either.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Pogba won't be here next season. Ole probably won't be either.

I think it's almost certain neither will be.

 

[El Zoido]

We've said this the last 6 years, I'm bored of it. Its just blind hope at this point. We are Manchester United, we shouldn't look bad against any team in world football, what people are upset about is that we don't look good either. Go watch Liverpool and City regularly put 3+ goals passed teams like Palace and Southampton and tell me we are on the right path.

We’ve never had a rebuild like the one that’s going on now. Smalling, Young, and Jones have been mainstays in every squad since Fergie. Moyes and LVG built their teams around a past-it Wayne Rooney. Every team has been a collection of random players with no clear philosophy. LVG tried to play a boring possession game with players that couldn’t pass well enough to pull it off (so we passed it sideways and backwards a lot and didn’t score). Mourinho knew the squad was terrible so went ultra defensive, started to fail when the pressure was on to attack more. Again, no squad cohesion, just random crap mashed together.

We’ve bought old players who are no longer effective (such as Schweinstieger, Falcao), we’ve bought expensive trash on crazy wages (Di Maria, Sanchez). This is literally the first time in 6 years that someone has come in and properly tried to refresh the squad. Fans should be excited about what’s going on, and have patience. There seems to be this belief every summer that we’ll sign loads of players and all of a sudden we’ll be amazing again. I’m absolutely convinced we’re moving in the right direction for the first time in years.

 

[LoneStar]

Highly doubt Ole will last that long. I can't see us finishing top 4 this season, might struggle for the 6th position as well.

So stop dreaming about Sancho, the kid would have far better options if he continues his development. Pogba is certain to leave next year, can't blame him. No one wants to play with Matic Fred and Jlingz.

We'll probably buy a midfielder to replace Pogba and a CF/RW. It's clear that the Glazers have no interest in investing too much money.

 

[48 hours]

whatever the plan is, we have Ed and co hamstringing it with general feckwittery

 

[momo83]

Why can't we afford to do a Klopp? Liverpool's last five league finishes pre-Klopp were: 6th, 8th, 7th, 2nd, 6th. Then he came in and finished 8th, then 4th, 4th and finally 2nd. Seems they were in an even worse state than we are in right now but they could afford to give Klopp time and we can't do the same with Solskjaer?

Pattern of play. Look at Chelsea. Frank’s only been there 3 months, lost his best player, singed none. Yet when they played United. Their performance was more promising then our result. People talk about kids, it’s actually Chelsea’s results are typically of promising kids with a good manager that deserves time.

TL/DR performance should also be looked at when rebuilding, sometimes might even tell a fuller story then results early on. With Ole we have neither performance nor results and his been here since December

 

[momo83]

Haha! So United, Chelsea and Spurs are going down this season then with their current form?

At least United and Chelsea have young squads so inconsistency is expected. What is the mighty Poch's excuse?

Spurs = gone stale. Expected after 5 years of the same players.

Chelsea = the only one genuinely playing youth, performance good, results inconsistent as expected

Man Utd = Poor performances, poor results, first 11 still same as last year with exception of new signings.

 

[Greck]

Why can't we afford to do a Klopp? Liverpool's last five league finishes pre-Klopp were: 6th, 8th, 7th, 2nd, 6th. Then he came in and finished 8th, then 4th, 4th and finally 2nd. Seems they were in an even worse state than we are in right now but they could afford to give Klopp time and we can't do the same with Solskjaer?

Feel like you answered your own question with the statistics you provided. They had a point average of 5.8 position before Klopp, he comes and they start averaging 4.5 position finishes. He more than earned himself time with that improvement making them a perrenial CL team. That and the small matter of his monumental body of work before arriving

 

[Bestietom]

Every manager has to start somewhere. Pep, Mourinho, Fergie, Klopp, all had to manage at some club to prove themselves.
Why not give Ole time at least, and blame Woodward and the Glazers for hiring him and not backing him, if he fails.
Some fans want miracles overnight. Ole needs to be backed by the Glazers, and Woodward, not thrown to the lions.
This club will go on making mistake after mistake by changing managers every other year. It will cost much more in the end.

 

[ArjenIsM3]

Pattern of play. Look at Chelsea. Frank’s only been there 3 months, lost his best player, singed none. Yet when they played United. Their performance was more promising then our result. People talk about kids, it’s actually Chelsea’s results are typically of promising kids with a good manager that deserves time.

TL/DR performance should also be looked at when rebuilding, sometimes might even tell a fuller story then results early on. With Ole we have neither performance nor results and his been here since December

Right, except Chelsea had a superior squad te begin with and replaced Hazard with Pulisic, who was one of the best offensive players in the Bundesliga. Chelsea have a far more balanced squad than we do. And they're doing no better than we are. They just drew 2-2 at home against Sheffield and are currently below us on the league table.

 

[JJ12]

People saying he won't be here next summer are being quite naive.

He's got a plan that he's submitted to the board and he's getting rid of the bloated wages before making the big strides going forward. I'd be shocked if the board made the same mistakes of sacking before the manager gets a foothold and the squad he wants is assembled.

Changing the manager will help nothing.