Solskjaer vs Moyes Performance

[bosnian_red]

Ole took over December 17th 2018. Dont let ignoring 15 games or so get in the way of your narrative though.

 

[Foxbatt]

To me it is funny that I think Moyes would do a lot better with this squad than Ole is doing while Ole will do a better job with the squad Moyes got instead of the current one.

 

[UpWithRivers]

The excuse that Moyes took over a winning team doesn't hold water... firstly that team was aging and needed a rebuild and secondly he just took over from Sir Alex. Even when the great man himself said he was retiring half way through the season the team collapsed.
Either way they are both sht. Ole still has time to change it but you can only judge what's in front of you.

 

[fergiesarmy1]

The excuse that Moyes took over a winning team doesn't hold water... firstly that team was aging and needed a rebuild and secondly he just took over from Sir Alex. Even when the great man himself said he was retiring half way through the season the team collapsed.
Either way they are both sht. Ole still has time to change it but you can only judge what's in front of you.

Funny what memories do, mine isn’t great on recent years but there was only a few games left when news broke about him retiring unless you are talking about the previous time he said he was going to retire but that doesn’t make sense as you infer Moyes taking over?

 

[arthurka]

This place is becoming unbearable, Moyes to over as champions Ole took over a mess .

 

[fps]

Moyes signed Fellaini.
Solskjaer got rid of him.

I back Solskjaer to do better.

 

[Bobski]

I think it is fairly obvious that Ole is not focusing on short term results. If he was then gutting the squad as he has would make little sense, guys like Fellaini, Lukaku, Sanchez and Smalling gave him more options to win matches. For all their failings we would have a much stronger squad with them included. They don't fit the style of play that he wants to build though, and with them here it is harder to fully commit to it.

I think some need to reassess their ambitions for this season, it is a development year, youngsters are going to get chances, we are going to lose games but it might be what Utd have needed for years. Mou fans like to point to finishing second but it was a worthless year in developing anything worth keeping.

 

[90 + 5min]

Oh, Another thread that is there to "prove" that Solskjaer is useless. Well, no need to tell anything more then show the team Moyes had to work with. Not that I'm saying he deserved to go as soon as he did but he had a team that is miles and miles better than what Solskjaer has. Just look:

DeGea, Lindegaard, Evra, Buttner, Ferdinand, Smalling, Vidic, Evans, Jones, Rafael, Young, Giggs, Carrick, Mata, Kagawa, Fletcher, Cleverly, Fellaini, Nani, Valencia, Rooney, Hernandez, Persie, Welbeck

We also had other young players like Januzaj, Lingard, Wilson, Anderson, Macheda, Fabio and so on who left during that season.

Please. It's like comparing Ferrari with Ford.

 

[Fussball13251]

Brendan Rodgers would do a better job than both. Anyways results-wize United look as bad as they were under Moyes.

 

[mariachi-19]

Brendan Rodgers would do a better job than both. Anyways results-wize United look as bad as they were under Moyes.

Maybe, but footballing wise we look far better and aside from poor execution in the final third, we'd have 4 wins from 4.

 

[stevoc]

Personally I think the entire thread asinine.

I can understand why that's the starting point you'd like to consider foe Ole. Like you say, it's not apples to apples. It's more complex an evaluation than simply saying one squad was better than the other whether tangible points comparison or just subjectivity. The core of the team under Moyes was multiple title winning one. The core of the team that Jose won the Europa League and then second in the league was not of equivalent pedigree, but it still had plenty of winners. Really, this (unnecessary) comparison to Moyes' performance is best suited for the end of the season.

But we're doing it at wrong. We should be supportive of Ole til we're sunk and on Ed to back his manager in the transfer window. So far it's been as miserable a squad management for Ole.

That we can agree on mate, the comparison itself isn't needed but if people must make it then at least wait until he's had a full season for it to be a fair comparison.

 

[SAFMUTD]

This place is becoming unbearable, Moyes to over as champions Ole took over a mess .

Agree, the difference is Moyes took the champions and left us in 7th place. Ole took a team that was no where near competing for the title; but on the other hand that same squad one season before ended up 2nd so the squad isn't as shitty as some are picturing it. This relegation form we are showing isn't acceptable either.

Bottom line both are shit, but I think Moyes was worst since he inherited a squad of winners so the downfall was harder.

 

[mariachi-19]

Agree, the difference is Moyes took the champions and left us in 7th place. Ole took a team that was no where near competing for the title; but on the other hand that same squad one season before ended up 2nd so the squad isn't as shitty as some are picturing it. This relegation form we are showing isn't acceptable either.

Bottom line both are shit, but I think Moyes was worst since he inherited a squad of winners so the downfall was harder.

Ole also took that same squad that finished second to the best form in the league for an extended period of time. Something no manager apart from LVG has managed to do at United since Fergies retirement.

 

[Tel074]

I could also post about the great job Moyes did at Everton. What matters is what they've done as permanent Man Utd manager surely?

What a load of bollocks . Ole has been in charge since the minute he walked into the club . I bet you would have included this if he had lost a load of games before he got the job permanently.
A thread made by you to dress it up how you want to make it look worse . Seriously embarrassing thread and a even more embarrassing arguement you are trying to have .

 

[Kammy26]

Ole also took that same squad that finished second to the best form in the league for an extended period of time. Something no manager apart from LVG has managed to do at United since Fergies retirement.

Are people still viewing this period of form as something other than the typical manager bounce post Mourinho? I think the negative effect Mourinho has at the end of his tenures is being underrated here.

The facts are there for everyone to see. After he left Chelsea first time, grant took them to a champions league final and if not for a slip they would have won it and they pushed us real close in the league this is with us having peak Ronaldo and Fergie. When Mourinho left Madrid they won the champions league, after he left Chelsea second time Conte won the league with 96 points.

That initial run Ole had was definitely a manager bounce. The difference between the above and our bounce is our players are not as good as the above players and Ole is not as good as above managers, that’s why the bounce ended earlier then the examples above.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Maybe, but footballing wise we look far better and aside from poor execution in the final third, we'd have 4 wins from 4.

Such an odd way to look at it. In that case Chelsea could have been 4 wins out of 4 and Arsenal could have been 3 wins out of 4 too. Everyone is just unlucky but actually doing great.

Our execution in the final third is NOT all that was missing. Our general/build up play has been wank.

 

[Amerifan]

Oh, Another thread that is there to "prove" that Solskjaer is useless. Well, no need to tell anything more then show the team Moyes had to work with. Not that I'm saying he deserved to go as soon as he did but he had a team that is miles and miles better than what Solskjaer has. Just look:

DeGea, Lindegaard, Evra, Buttner, Ferdinand, Smalling, Vidic, Evans, Jones, Rafael, Young, Giggs, Carrick, Mata, Kagawa, Fletcher, Cleverly, Fellaini, Nani, Valencia, Rooney, Hernandez, Persie, Welbeck

We also had other young players like Januzaj, Lingard, Wilson, Anderson, Macheda, Fabio and so on who left during that season.

Please. It's like comparing Ferrari with Ford.

This. Moyes’ XI would trounce Ole’s XI, which says nothing about the relative coaching ability of the two managers. Aging or not, Moyes’ squad also had the advantage of the Old Trafford effect, Fergie time, and the stress of facing the champions, United. Ole inherited none of that. They aren’t comparable situations in the slightest.

 

[Marcus]

Moyes took over the Champions and wiped out the coaching staff and did badly. No comparison actually.

 

[BalanceUnAutreJoint]

This comparison doesn't interest me the slightest, what I find sad isn't that Ole may be performing worse than Moyes.

It is that I don't think we've made a step forward since 2013, it feels like we're forever stuck in transition, trying to "rebuild" a league winning squad but after years have passed we haven't come any closer.

 

[In Rainbows]

Are people still viewing this period of form as something other than the typical manager bounce post Mourinho? I think the negative effect Mourinho has at the end of his tenures is being underrated here.

The facts are there for everyone to see. After he left Chelsea first time, grant took them to a champions league final and if not for a slip they would have won it and they pushed us real close in the league this is with us having peak Ronaldo and Fergie. When Mourinho left Madrid they won the champions league, after he left Chelsea second time Conte won the league with 96 points.

That initial run Ole had was definitely a manager bounce. The difference between the above and our bounce is our players are not as good as the above players and Ole is not as good as above managers, that’s why the bounce ended earlier then the examples above.

Yeah, but the OP is trying to say that the bounce ended as soon as he was permanently appointed which is dumb. We were already not playing as well before he was appointed, but were managing to grind out wins. It's clear that Liverpool was a turning point as we started to become more like a Mourinho style team except with a little more pace during counters.

If there is one negative you can point to Ole, is that Liverpool was when we had injuries and "forced" Ole to completely change our tactics from that point forward as the excuse was that our fitness wasn't up to the standard. Well, we've now had a preseason and it still feels like we're playing the same style of football. Our pressing isn't all that great, certainly not to the level of what it was in his first 2-3 games in charge, and our passing isn't as fast as it was in those first 2-3 games in charge.

Point is, if the OP wants to do an accurate comparison, don't start at when he permanently got the job just because it better serves his argument. A new manager's bounce didn't last for 3-4 months.

 

[Fussball13251]

Maybe, but footballing wise we look far better and aside from poor execution in the final third, we'd have 4 wins from 4.

http:///www.streamable.com/8pdkt

But still playing confusion football. They have to be better tactically on the field or results won't improve much.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Funny what memories do, mine isn’t great on recent years but there was only a few games left when news broke about him retiring unless you are talking about the previous time he said he was going to retire but that doesn’t make sense as you infer Moyes taking over?

I meant the first time. Moyes wasn't taking over but still just the fact Sir Alex said he was retiring collapsed the team. Anyone who took over from Sir Alex was just bound to fail. Moyes was still sht but the view that he had it easy compared to Ole is mistaken.

 

[Bilbo]

I think it is fairly obvious that Ole is not focusing on short term results. If he was then gutting the squad as he has would make little sense, guys like Fellaini, Lukaku, Sanchez and Smalling gave him more options to win matches. For all their failings we would have a much stronger squad with them included. They don't fit the style of play that he wants to build though, and with them here it is harder to fully commit to it.

I think some need to reassess their ambitions for this season, it is a development year, youngsters are going to get chances, we are going to lose games but it might be what Utd have needed for years. Mou fans like to point to finishing second but it was a worthless year in developing anything worth keeping.

Exactly this - the squad is being gutted and built from scratch. This is what this club has needed for a few seasons now

 

[stevoc]

I meant the first time. Moyes wasn't taking over but still just the fact Sir Alex said he was retiring collapsed the team. Anyone who took over from Sir Alex was just bound to fail. Moyes was still sht but the view that he had it easy compared to Ole is mistaken.

I doubt anyone is actually saying Moyes had it easy, the task he took on was huge. But compared to what Ole inherited he did have a better and much more experienced squad.

 

[Buster15]

There was money there to strengthen the attack if the right players had been available and willing to come.



Right back at you mate. Do you know for a fact that the squad to a man decided to be unprofessional and just stop performing for Moyes?

Its possible but not likely, its much more likely that some players just declined, and others were short of confidence and morale in general was very low especially after Xmas. Which lead to the whole team who were used to winning and strong leadership performing poorly.

You are right and I do not actually know about that. I was repeating what I had read.
Anyway. The Moyes era is in the past and it is unfair to compare him and Ole. Times have changed as have circumstances.
Having said that, one thing hasn't changed. And that is our very average players with very average levels of performance.
We are miles and miles away from where I am sure that you and the rest of our supporters wish us to be. And there is actually no excuse for that.

 

[Abhinav]

Its a joke to compare Moyes vs Ole. The talent that Moyes had at his disposal shames our current squad and makes it look like a reserve team. All Moyes had to do was to retain the coaching staff and bring in one quality midfielder, a back-up to evra and he would have easily strolled to a top 3 finish. Instead he got Fellaini, sacked the coaching staff and lost the dressing room.
Moyes’ insecurities got the better of him and lost him the respect of the squad.

We had RVP, Rooney, Kagawa, Chicarito, Mata, Nani as our attacking options under Moyes. Now Ole has Rashford, Martial, James, Lingard and couple of youngsters.

 

[nyanza]

Ole took over December 17th 2018. Dont let ignoring 15 games or so get in the way of your narrative though.

But that was the 15 or so games win streak that every manager has after taking over so it doesn't count.

 

[Adcuth]

Ole inherited one that came in second to the greatest side ever seen in English football.

Their starting points aren't as far off as we want to force ourselves to believe.

That's says more about the teams who finished behind us that year

 

[stevoc]

You are right and I do not actually know about that. I was repeating what I had read.
Anyway. The Moyes era is in the past and it is unfair to compare him and Ole. Times have changed as have circumstances.
Having said that, one thing hasn't changed. And that is our very average players with very average levels of performance.
We are miles and miles away from where I am sure that you and the rest of our supporters wish us to be. And there is actually no excuse for that.

Well thats definitely true, given the resources available and the talent that has been at the disposal of the last 4 managers they really all should have came in the top 4 no problem.

But theres been some shocking mismanagement from top down at the club since Fergie retired.

Things aren't great at the minute but at least it looks like we have some sort of plan going forward.