I don't know much about how City played in 15/16 but we didn't just play bad football that season (or the three before), there was a distinct loser mentality surrounding our club and the fan base . Let's stop the revisionism. We've been woeful to good since SAF left.
I posted somewhere else that there was a period of 25 games in that season where won something like 7 games (in all comps) and displayed relegation contention form.
Will be nice when he signs fullbacks and CM's this summer, yeah. Mkhi is gone in swap for Sanchez, Lukaku replaced Ibra, Lindelof is not really first choice and Bailly has been missing most of the season anyway. Those are good signings and have us heading in the right direction.
Will be nice when he signs fullbacks and CM's this summer, yeah.Mkhi is gone in swap for Sanchez, Lukaku replaced Ibra, Lindelof is not really first choice and Bailly has been missing most of the season anyway. Those are good signings and have us heading in the right direction.
Yes I know that the former two that you mentioned are replacements.
And that's the point those the players apart from Lindelof have been largely great so what else does he need before competing with the likes of Sevilla. I don't his argument about needing further funds.
I mean we have a budget, so he can't just sign every player in one summer. That's why it's a rebuilding process over a couple of years, and we add every summer. Yeah Pep went out and paid 130 million for fullbacks, but we cant really do that when we had to fill other positions first. Lukaku cost us 75-90 million. Pep didn't have the problem of signing someone of that valuation in such a vital position because Aguero was already there.
Same with us signing Pogba. De Bruyne was signed for 60 million+ before Pep even got there. If Pep had to pay up for de Bruyne and Aguero his squad would be a bit behind what it is now. That's just how squad building goes. Unless of course he went out and spent 300 million in one summer, which I don't think they would do.
I mean we have a budget, so he can't just sign every player in one summer. That's why it's a rebuilding process over a couple of years, and we add every summer. Yeah Pep went out and paid 130 million for fullbacks, but we cant really do that when we had to fill other positions first. Lukaku cost us 75-90 million. Pep didn't have the problem of signing someone of that valuation in such a vital position because Aguero was already there.
Pep spent 70 million more than Jose. It's not like we don't have that. Also maybe don't buy Pogba for 90 million? Sort your glaring weaknesses out and then go for players like Pogba. Why did we spend the summer chasing Perisic when we have Martial and Rashford?
Why didn't we sign a LB last summer? Why didn't we sign another midfielder to help Matic? Or why doesn't he trust Herrera who was exceptional last season?
We've a good squad. A really good squad. It's squarely on Jose for not knowing how to utilise those players.
The idea that some say, that Pep & Jose entered similar jobs is far from the truth, from everything from starting-point of how the squad had been for a time and how the club had invested in getting back up.
It's also noticeable when going through the stats of the different seasons that City were more under-performing points-wise when you look at goal-difference and league-position than United were.
You can see in the graphs below that City were performing at a higher level in almost every department, all the way since 2013/14 when Sir Alex wasn't around anymore.
Keep in mind that we threw the league under Jose's season to put our eggs in the Europa League basket.
Also do note that there are 8 games left of the season, so this years stats can still improve.
Going by my graphs, we're improving in every area: Table position, points, goals scored, goals against & goal-difference.
Key-ish players in the two teams from 2013 and til now:
Patrice Evra - Left - Not replaced currently
Di Maria - Left - Not replaced currently
Nemanja Vidic - Left - Not replaced currently
Rafael (not for all) - Left - Replaced
Rio Ferdinand - Left - Replaced
Nani (not for all) - Left - Replaced
Wayne Rooney - Left - Replaced
Van Persie - Left - Replaced
David De Gea - Here
Anthony Martial - New
Paul Pogba - New
Romelu Lukaku - New
Eric Bailly - New
Matic - New
Alexis Sanchez - New
Supposed to be key-players (presumably):
Bastian Schweinsteiger - Left
Radamel Falcao - Left
Henrikh Mkhitaryan - Left
In short:
We've lost an entire defense (if we add Rafael) and only had one proper replacement in Bailly & a in-squad replacement for Rafael in Valencia who is now ageing. Struggled with not having a midfield (which we've somewhat gotten but it isn't fully functional and we lack quality options to the main two) and have replaced our attacking options decently.
Joe Hart - Left - Replaced
Pablo Zabaleta - Left - Replaced
Joleon Lescott - Left - Replaced
Jesus Navas - Left - Replaced
Gael Clichy - Left - Replaced
Gareth Barry - Left - Replaced
James Milner - Left - Replaced
Samir Nasri - Left - Replaced
Aleksander Kolarov - Left - Replaced
Edin Dzeko - Left - Replaced
Vincent Kompany - There
Sergio Aguero - There
David Silva - There
Fernandinho - There
Yaya Toure - There / aged - Replaced
Raheem Sterling - New
Nicolas Otamendi - New
Kevin De Bruyne - New
Leroy Sane - New
Kyle Walker - New
Ederson - New
Top players/transfers just to fill the squad:
Ilkay Gundogan - New
Bernardo Silva - New
Benjamin Mendy - New
Danilo - New
Aymeric Laporte - New
In short:
They've changed out their attackers, their midfield, their defense & their keeper while adding depth and overall increased the quality of all sides of their squad. The exceptions in their side are those who were the absolute top players back when they won the league in 2013/14 in Aguero, Kompany, Toure & Silva who either still play at the top level or has been replaced with high quality.
City are performing well, there is no denying that. But we've had a long(er) way to go and Jose has been able to drag us up to 2nd while improving the quality of our squad from the shambles we've been at. I understand and agree with those being frustrated at how we play, and while I too don't think Jose will have us playing super-entertaining football (going by what people seem to think of as entertaining), he sure isn't doing a bad job with improving the club compared to those around us.
Yes I know that the former two that you mentioned are replacements.
And that's the point those the players apart from Lindelof have been largely great so what else does he need before competing with the likes of Sevilla. I don't his argument about needing further funds.
City already had a good squad, then they were able to seriously upgrade the weak positions like full back.
We were playing catchup, after a mixture of bad signings, and players not meeting the new manager's requirements.
We're fielding a pair of veteran wingers, that people used to moan about as not being good enough in their winger days, years and years later, as fullbacks.
City already had a good squad, then they were able to seriously upgrade the weak positions like full back.
We were playing catchup, after a mixture of bad signings, and players not meeting the new manager's requirements.
We're fielding a pair of veteran wingers, that people used to moan about as not being good enough in their winger days, years and years later, as fullbacks.
Yeah City had a good squad and an aging squad. Do you remember how many players they've released over past couple of years? We're stuck in a perpetual state of rebuilding.
City we're decisive and did an excellent job. Whilst we still have Fellaini starting our games who fecking shite!!
Yeah City had a good squad and an aging squad. Do you remember how many players they've released over past couple of years? We're stuck in a perpetual state of rebuilding.
City we're decisive and did an excellent job. Whilst we still have Fellaini starting our games who fecking shite!!
We do have a good core of players at good ages. The likes of Pogba, Lukaku, Bailly and Lindelof were all the right type of signings to build both for now and the future.
This summer we need to continue that, and as Ibra, Carrick and Fellaini leave, bring in a couple of mids and a full back in the 21-26 sort of age range.
Pep spent 70 million more than Jose. It's not like we don't have that. Also maybe don't buy Pogba for 90 million? Sort your glaring weaknesses out and then go for players like Pogba. Why did we spend the summer chasing Perisic when we have Martial and Rashford?
Why didn't we sign a LB last summer? Why didn't we sign another midfielder to help Matic? Or why doesn't he trust Herrera who was exceptional last season?
We've a good squad. A really good squad. It's squarely on Jose for not knowing how to utilise those players.
I think you'll find quality at CM was a glaring weakness which even SAF was criticised for. He was also interested in Perisic playing LM in a 352. Like I said we have a budget, we can't just fill every position that quickly with the right quality.
We do have a good core of players at good ages. The likes of Pogba, Lukaku, Bailly and Lindelof were all the right type of signings to build both for now and the future.
This summer we need to continue that, and as Ibra, Carrick and Fellaini leave, bring in a couple of mids and a full back in the 21-26 sort of age range.
We do have a lot of players with the best years ahead of them but we should have sorted our weaknesses quicker. Jose's handling of Shaw has been woeful imo. Should have made a decision in the summer to replace him. We needed another midfielder to cover for Matic and a right winger.
We signed an inexperienced CB along side Matic who we needed and Lukaku who we needed. There should have been another LB and RW coming in as he clearly didn't trust Mkhitaryan instead we chased Perisic who wasn't needed at all.
I agree with this thread pretty much, Guardiola and Mourinho inherited different squads. The problem is they had a vastly superior attack then us, and attacking players cost a lot more. Pogba and Lukaku have been great signings, but they were £80m or so each. If City didn't have Aguero, Silva, KDB, Sterling already, they'd have been looking at at least a good £60m+ for each of those. But as they didn't, they could afford to spend £100m on two full backs + £35m on a keeper.
In comparison our attacking options when Mourinho took over were Martial, Rashford, Mata, Young, a past it Rooney and Depay. Mata's an okay player but he's about half of what David Silva's shown throughout his career, and Martial and Rashford are good but inconsistent. Maybe Mourinho could've helped them develop better but I just don't see as much natural technical talent in them that I've seen in Sane and Sterling (especiually dribbling wise). The rest of the squad barring De Gea wasn't much better.
So in reality they've had a much stronger attack then us, and have added to it. Imo this summer will make or break Mourinho, because he's yet to sign any full backs (desperately needed) or wide forwards that can dribble (desperately needed). It's why we look so static. He's failed to do that over the past two years (despite otherwise good singings in defence, midfield and attack), but if he fails again to do that this summer then really it might be game over for him as the football just won't improve enough.
I think you'll find quality at CM was a glaring weakness which even SAF was criticised for. He was also interested in Perisic playing LM in a 352. Like I said we have a budget, we can't just fill every position that quickly with the right quality.
And why bring Sir Alex into it? He fecking played Oshea and Rafael in midfield and he wasn't a tactical genius. He just knew how to get the tune out of his players which Mourinho clearly doesn't anymore. And yes, we signed Matic but why not another CM. Why fecking wait until we resort to playing Fellaini in there. He should be nowhere near our team if we want to compete with City, Madrid, Barca, Bayern -- which is where Man Utd belong.
And why bring Sir Alex into it? He fecking played Oshea and Rafael in midfield and he wasn't a tactical genius. He just knew how to get the tune out of his players which Mourinho clearly doesn't anymore. And yes, we signed Matic but why not another CM. Why fecking wait until we resort to playing Fellaini in there. He should be nowhere near our team if we want to compete with City, Madrid, Barca, Bayern -- which is where Man Utd belong.
You are just contradicting yourself. You said we shouldn't have signed Pogba and signed players where we had glaring weakness. I only mentioned SAF because CM is the main position of weakness and the fans have been saying that since the SAF years. Here you are talking about we shouldn't be playing Fellaini if we want to compete with Barca and Madrid but are trying to use the signing of Pogba against Mourinho.
In regards to Perisic and a 352, Mourinho mentioned it himself.
You are just contradicting yourself with every post.
You are just contradicting yourself. You said we shouldn't have signed Pogba and signed players where we had glaring weakness. I only mentioned SAF because CM is the main position of weakness and the fans have been saying that since the SAF years. Here you are talking about we shouldn't be playing Fellaini if we want to compete with Barca and Madrid but are trying to use the signing of Pogba against Mourinho.
In regards to Perisic and a 352, Mourinho mentioned it himself.
You are just contradicting yourself with every post.
It hasn't been that City hasn't brought in attacking players, but that they did not spend a fortune on any one player. Sane 37 million, Jesus 27 million, Gundogan 20 million. Those three players combined cost 84 million versus 90 million for Pogba. City have spent more there is no denying that, but the way they spread the funds around makes a lot more sense when you are rebuilding a squad versus spending it all on one player.
Signing Pogba was a vital step in building this side, it's not a pointless fecking signing. Not any side can just go out and sign a CM of that calibre and quality. We need to keep building. We need to assess after each season the improvement and decline of players, who fits, who doesn't. It takes a couple of years. Like I said we have a budget, we cant just sign everyone all at once.
It hasn't been that City hasn't brought in attacking players, but that they did not spend a fortune on any one player. Sane 37 million, Jesus 27 million, Gundogan 20 million. Those three players combined cost 84 million versus 90 million for Pogba. City have spent more there is no denying that, but the way they spread the funds around makes a lot more sense when you are rebuilding a squad versus spending it all on one player.
According to TransferMarkt, Pep has actually signed 19 players to Jose’s 8.
That’s more than double. On an already settled and functional team. There’s wages on top of that. As well as additional under the table retirement funds.
Why can’t people see that it is nothing like a level playing field?
We do have a lot of players with the best years ahead of them but we should have sorted our weaknesses quicker. Jose's handling of Shaw has been woeful imo. Should have made a decision in the summer to replace him. We needed another midfielder to cover for Matic and a right winger.
We signed an inexperienced CB along side Matic who we needed and Lukaku who we needed. There should have been another LB and RW coming in as he clearly didn't trust Mkhitaryan instead we chased Perisic who wasn't needed at all.
There's the view that we were after Perisic to play a wing backs system, that would have at least covered one side of the full back situation, as well as then not requiring a right winger.
We then could have played Pogba and Matic with security behind them, as well as fitting in one of Martial and Rashford alongside Lukaku, as well as supposedly Griezmann behind them.
Signing Pogba was a vital step in building this side, it's not a pointless fecking signing. Not any side can just go out and sign a CM of that calibre and quality. We need to keep building. We need to assess after each season the improvement and decline of players, who fits, who doesn't. It takes a couple of years. Like I said we have a budget, we cant just sign everyone all at once.
Look, Jose plays Pogba alongside Matic - where he's next to useless. He should be played in a 3. Maybe sort out midfield out first and see what works rather than just signing a star name. By the way I love Pogba as a player but he's not being used properly and that's on Jose.
So he should shut the feck up about City, more money etc and look to his own short comings to look to sort his shit out.
Look, Jose plays Pogba alongside Matic - where he's next to useless. He should be played in a 3. Maybe sort out midfield out first and see what works rather than just signing a star name. By the way I love Pogba as a player but he's not being used properly and that's on Jose.
So he should shut the feck up about City, more money etc and look to his own short comings to look to sort his shit out.
You think he isn't going to sign another CM this summer? Like he said its a process and the team is still building. Signing another CM is part of that. This Pogba is useless next to Matic is also just hyperbole. Yes he is better in a 3 but there were several games where he was good in a 2 especially at the start. Next season I still expect to see the 4231 especially at home and more of the 433 away.
There's the view that we were after Perisic to play a wing backs system, that would have at least covered one side of the full back situation, as well as then not requiring a right winger.
We then could have played Pogba and Matic with security behind them, as well as fitting in one of Martial and Rashford alongside Lukaku, as well as supposedly Griezmann behind them.
See I think if we signed Perisic I think he'd have taken Martial's place. I remember few posters who watched Perisic said that he wouldn't play well in that position. He's work rate is good but he's not really that good defensively.
You think he isn't going to sign another CM this summer? Like he said its a process and the team is still building. Signing another CM is part of that. This Pogba is useless next to Matic is also just hyperbole. Yes he is better in a 3 but there were several games where he was good in a 2 especially at the start. Next season I still expect to see the 4231 especially at home and more of the 433 away.
I respect your opinion too. I have nothing to really gain from this, this is just what I truly believe. Perhaps it's just the patience in me in general.
I respect your opinion too. I have nothing to really gain from this, this is just what I truly believe. Perhaps it's just the patience in me in general.
Anyway its not as if I don't want Jose to succeed. I was pumped when he signed. I just don't have the same faith as you I guess. But I can guarantee you I care about United as much as the next guy. And if it does work out for Jose I'll gladly admit I was wrong. Gladly.
I feel the major issue is Jose has still not found his ideal formation and starting 11. That should be the start. Players are being signed to replace players he signed the previous season that is not good for any team in general, let along a team challenging for the title.
I’d have taken 2nd, a CL run and a cup this season at the start. We haven’t been great in recent years, you have to build a base to challenge from, it takes time but clearly we are doing that. That’s just the way it is. I had hoped we might just go a bit further this season but we aren’t quite ready. And that’s fine. You are going to get setbacks, but we are moving in the right direction still.
Our buys have been quite terrible since SAF left, though we've gotten some gems in Pogba, Martial, Bailly, & Shaw. Mourinho has been wasteful with the money
You don't fork out 90m for a world class player to play 40 yards away from goal pinging long balls to the FB.
Why spend 75m on Lukaku who isn't the complete player, when you have young strikers with world class potential in Martial, Rashford. You could have gotten a cheap older experienced striker for cover.
With 7 CB's (Smalling, Jones, Bailly, Rojo, Blind, TFM, Axel) why spend 31m on another unproven one in Lindelof? Lindelof isn't even better than TFM & Axel from what we've seen so far.
We have spent a fortune on mediority, or at least Jose has turned them into mediority. You have forgotten about Sanchez and the wages he is on. All this hype about Pogba, we totally overpaid for him, no one else was prepare to fork out that amount for him. Pogba at the moment reminds me of Anderson, looked like a midfield genius till he got to Utd started off bright but faded very fast. The only thing that has taken off for Pogba since his arrival is his social media presense.
At the end of the day Pep has bought wisely and improved what he bought, Jose hasn’t really improved any of his players, you kinda get the feeling he thinks if you throw enough money at the problem it will sort itself out. At the end of the day Jose will always be Pep’s bitch or should I say be in his shadow.
Here we go again, spends 300million, complains about not spending enough. Nobody is expecting Man City levels of play and nobody is expecting us to fly to the title yet, people are expecting you not to cower and spectacularly embarrass us on the world stage by giving that disgusting performance over 2 legs against a team that lost 5-1 to Eibar, don't try and tell me our squad isn't good enough to have given Sevilla a rollicking because you'd be lying. Nobody is having a go at Pochettino despite being knocked out because at least they gave it a damn good try, where as Mourinho is obviously instructing the team to sit back and be negative as hell a lot of the time and damn right people shouldn't accept that, particularly not against Sevilla, playing long ball at home, trying to negatively defend a lead that we never had in the first place, can't say i've seen many worse performances. Sevilla's squad is worth, well i don't know the exacts but they've invested far FAR less than us on our squad and they still made us look like schoolboys.
I mean he's spent poorly, cant get most of the players he bought to perform to the level they were beforehand, Mkhitaryan swapped to Arsenal and is level on assists with Pogba, Lindelof is benched for Smalling. A lot of money for very little impact on the team and the football is utter shit, even against poor teams that have invested less than us, surely nobody is having the wool pulled over their eyes by this?
I feel the major issue is Jose has still not found his ideal formation and starting 11. That should be the start. Players are being signed to replace players he signed the previous season that is not good for any team in general, let along a team challenging for the title.
Sad to think a manager of his calibre doesn’t know who his best 11 players are and what formation works for his team and all that after 2 years. Many were saying give Jose a couple of tranfer windows to build his team, he has had 4 and still his team is in a mess. Some people still believe he will somehow have this great epiphany and all will be different next year, I myself really doubt it.
Talking about Heritage, should think about Newcastle and England. Expectation from fans are so high that no-one remember what was their achievement in past 10 years, in fact past 30 - 40 years.
Sad to think a manager of his calibre doesn’t know who his best 11 players are and what formation works for his team and all that after 2 years. Many were saying give Jose a couple of tranfer windows to build his team, he has had 4 and still his team is in a mess. Some people still believe he will somehow have this great epiphany and all will be different next year, I myself really doubt it.
Disagree. I think Mourinho's favourite is always 4231, on big game change 1 of the attacking player to someone with more discipline (Willian e.g.) to help out on defence.
He struggles with the formation because of Pogba; plus the fact that most of his attacking players do not have discipline - Mata, Rashford, Martial, and now Sanchez. Only Lingard would follow his instruction that's why he used him often even before his prolific form. Mourinho one said he would allow 1 free role player but not too many. That's why the old Chelsea kept Hazard, and prefer Oscar to Mata because Oscar worked a bit harder.
The idea that some say, that Pep & Jose entered similar jobs is far from the truth, from everything from starting-point of how the squad had been for a time and how the club had invested in getting back up.
It's also noticeable when going through the stats of the different seasons that City were more under-performing points-wise when you look at goal-difference and league-position than United were.
You can see in the graphs below that City were performing at a higher level in almost every department, all the way since 2013/14 when Sir Alex wasn't around anymore.
Keep in mind that we threw the league under Jose's season to put our eggs in the Europa League basket.
Also do note that there are 8 games left of the season, so this years stats can still improve.
Going by my graphs, we're improving in every area: Table position, points, goals scored, goals against & goal-difference.
Key-ish players in the two teams from 2013 and til now:
Patrice Evra - Left - Not replaced currently
Di Maria - Left - Not replaced currently
Nemanja Vidic - Left - Not replaced currently
Rafael (not for all) - Left - Replaced
Rio Ferdinand - Left - Replaced
Nani (not for all) - Left - Replaced
Wayne Rooney - Left - Replaced
Van Persie - Left - Replaced
David De Gea - Here
Anthony Martial - New
Paul Pogba - New
Romelu Lukaku - New
Eric Bailly - New
Matic - New
Alexis Sanchez - New
Supposed to be key-players (presumably):
Bastian Schweinsteiger - Left
Radamel Falcao - Left
Henrikh Mkhitaryan - Left
In short:
We've lost an entire defense (if we add Rafael) and only had one proper replacement in Bailly & a in-squad replacement for Rafael in Valencia who is now ageing. Struggled with not having a midfield (which we've somewhat gotten but it isn't fully functional and we lack quality options to the main two) and have replaced our attacking options decently.
Joe Hart - Left - Replaced
Pablo Zabaleta - Left - Replaced
Joleon Lescott - Left - Replaced
Jesus Navas - Left - Replaced
Gael Clichy - Left - Replaced
Gareth Barry - Left - Replaced
James Milner - Left - Replaced
Samir Nasri - Left - Replaced
Aleksander Kolarov - Left - Replaced
Edin Dzeko - Left - Replaced
Vincent Kompany - There
Sergio Aguero - There
David Silva - There
Fernandinho - There
Yaya Toure - There / aged - Replaced
Raheem Sterling - New
Nicolas Otamendi - New
Kevin De Bruyne - New
Leroy Sane - New
Kyle Walker - New
Ederson - New
Top players/transfers just to fill the squad:
Ilkay Gundogan - New
Bernardo Silva - New
Benjamin Mendy - New
Danilo - New
Aymeric Laporte - New
In short:
They've changed out their attackers, their midfield, their defense & their keeper while adding depth and overall increased the quality of all sides of their squad. The exceptions in their side are those who were the absolute top players back when they won the league in 2013/14 in Aguero, Kompany, Toure & Silva who either still play at the top level or has been replaced with high quality.
City are performing well, there is no denying that. But we've had a long(er) way to go and Jose has been able to drag us up to 2nd while improving the quality of our squad from the shambles we've been at. I understand and agree with those being frustrated at how we play, and while I too don't think Jose will have us playing super-entertaining football (going by what people seem to think of as entertaining), he sure isn't doing a bad job with improving the club compared to those around us.
The idea that some say, that Pep & Jose entered similar jobs is far from the truth, from everything from starting-point of how the squad had been for a time and how the club had invested in getting back up.
It's also noticeable when going through the stats of the different seasons that City were more under-performing points-wise when you look at goal-difference and league-position than United were.
You can see in the graphs below that City were performing at a higher level in almost every department, all the way since 2013/14 when Sir Alex wasn't around anymore.
Keep in mind that we threw the league under Jose's season to put our eggs in the Europa League basket.
Also do note that there are 8 games left of the season, so this years stats can still improve.
Going by my graphs, we're improving in every area: Table position, points, goals scored, goals against & goal-difference.
Key-ish players in the two teams from 2013 and til now:
Patrice Evra - Left - Not replaced currently
Di Maria - Left - Not replaced currently
Nemanja Vidic - Left - Not replaced currently
Rafael (not for all) - Left - Replaced
Rio Ferdinand - Left - Replaced
Nani (not for all) - Left - Replaced
Wayne Rooney - Left - Replaced
Van Persie - Left - Replaced
David De Gea - Here
Anthony Martial - New
Paul Pogba - New
Romelu Lukaku - New
Eric Bailly - New
Matic - New
Alexis Sanchez - New
Supposed to be key-players (presumably):
Bastian Schweinsteiger - Left
Radamel Falcao - Left
Henrikh Mkhitaryan - Left
In short:
We've lost an entire defense (if we add Rafael) and only had one proper replacement in Bailly & a in-squad replacement for Rafael in Valencia who is now ageing. Struggled with not having a midfield (which we've somewhat gotten but it isn't fully functional and we lack quality options to the main two) and have replaced our attacking options decently.
Joe Hart - Left - Replaced
Pablo Zabaleta - Left - Replaced
Joleon Lescott - Left - Replaced
Jesus Navas - Left - Replaced
Gael Clichy - Left - Replaced
Gareth Barry - Left - Replaced
James Milner - Left - Replaced
Samir Nasri - Left - Replaced
Aleksander Kolarov - Left - Replaced
Edin Dzeko - Left - Replaced
Vincent Kompany - There
Sergio Aguero - There
David Silva - There
Fernandinho - There
Yaya Toure - There / aged - Replaced
Raheem Sterling - New
Nicolas Otamendi - New
Kevin De Bruyne - New
Leroy Sane - New
Kyle Walker - New
Ederson - New
Top players/transfers just to fill the squad:
Ilkay Gundogan - New
Bernardo Silva - New
Benjamin Mendy - New
Danilo - New
Aymeric Laporte - New
In short:
They've changed out their attackers, their midfield, their defense & their keeper while adding depth and overall increased the quality of all sides of their squad. The exceptions in their side are those who were the absolute top players back when they won the league in 2013/14 in Aguero, Kompany, Toure & Silva who either still play at the top level or has been replaced with high quality.
City are performing well, there is no denying that. But we've had a long(er) way to go and Jose has been able to drag us up to 2nd while improving the quality of our squad from the shambles we've been at. I understand and agree with those being frustrated at how we play, and while I too don't think Jose will have us playing super-entertaining football (going by what people seem to think of as entertaining), he sure isn't doing a bad job with improving the club compared to those around us.
Thanks, was a bit worried the work and re-work would go to waste over the discussion that was going on.
Looking at the numbers has me reaffirming my thinking that Jose is doing a good job for the club, despite his & the team at times awful performances in individual games.
I certainly believe that he should be given another year.
The idea that some say, that Pep & Jose entered similar jobs is far from the truth, from everything from starting-point of how the squad had been for a time and how the club had invested in getting back up.
It's also noticeable when going through the stats of the different seasons that City were more under-performing points-wise when you look at goal-difference and league-position than United were.
You can see in the graphs below that City were performing at a higher level in almost every department, all the way since 2013/14 when Sir Alex wasn't around anymore.
Keep in mind that we threw the league under Jose's season to put our eggs in the Europa League basket.
Also do note that there are 8 games left of the season, so this years stats can still improve.
Going by my graphs, we're improving in every area: Table position, points, goals scored, goals against & goal-difference.
Key-ish players in the two teams from 2013 and til now:
Patrice Evra - Left - Not replaced currently
Di Maria - Left - Not replaced currently
Nemanja Vidic - Left - Not replaced currently
Rafael (not for all) - Left - Replaced
Rio Ferdinand - Left - Replaced
Nani (not for all) - Left - Replaced
Wayne Rooney - Left - Replaced
Van Persie - Left - Replaced
David De Gea - Here
Anthony Martial - New
Paul Pogba - New
Romelu Lukaku - New
Eric Bailly - New
Matic - New
Alexis Sanchez - New
Supposed to be key-players (presumably):
Bastian Schweinsteiger - Left
Radamel Falcao - Left
Henrikh Mkhitaryan - Left
In short:
We've lost an entire defense (if we add Rafael) and only had one proper replacement in Bailly & a in-squad replacement for Rafael in Valencia who is now ageing. Struggled with not having a midfield (which we've somewhat gotten but it isn't fully functional and we lack quality options to the main two) and have replaced our attacking options decently.
Joe Hart - Left - Replaced
Pablo Zabaleta - Left - Replaced
Joleon Lescott - Left - Replaced
Jesus Navas - Left - Replaced
Gael Clichy - Left - Replaced
Gareth Barry - Left - Replaced
James Milner - Left - Replaced
Samir Nasri - Left - Replaced
Aleksander Kolarov - Left - Replaced
Edin Dzeko - Left - Replaced
Vincent Kompany - There
Sergio Aguero - There
David Silva - There
Fernandinho - There
Yaya Toure - There / aged - Replaced
Raheem Sterling - New
Nicolas Otamendi - New
Kevin De Bruyne - New
Leroy Sane - New
Kyle Walker - New
Ederson - New
Top players/transfers just to fill the squad:
Ilkay Gundogan - New
Bernardo Silva - New
Benjamin Mendy - New
Danilo - New
Aymeric Laporte - New
In short:
They've changed out their attackers, their midfield, their defense & their keeper while adding depth and overall increased the quality of all sides of their squad. The exceptions in their side are those who were the absolute top players back when they won the league in 2013/14 in Aguero, Kompany, Toure & Silva who either still play at the top level or has been replaced with high quality.
City are performing well, there is no denying that. But we've had a long(er) way to go and Jose has been able to drag us up to 2nd while improving the quality of our squad from the shambles we've been at. I understand and agree with those being frustrated at how we play, and while I too don't think Jose will have us playing super-entertaining football (going by what people seem to think of as entertaining), he sure isn't doing a bad job with improving the club compared to those around us.
Good presentation, and I mean those are darn very good.
MCity have added in and/or replaced their key/top players much much better and earlier than ours. LVG pretty much start clearing out the deadwoods, but many of his replacements are not up to the task. Arguably, while he helps pushed some past players out, he have also added more average players to the squad. Since last season, we have started to properly better clear-out the averages players, and replace/added to the squad with more top/key class players.
Just to add a lil bit to the list, "Continuity and Stability of the team" with top class players (at good range of ages) who provides the team with strong spine or backbone. Most importantly, this determines the overall level of the squad. This also relates with chemistry/understanding between the players. The more they played together, the better the chemistry, and hence the better they perform as a collective group in matches. *Only top class players, and players with high potential are included.
*Age, abilities regressing, season form, positioning change and injuries should also be considered.
End of Season 12/13 (SAF)
Patrice Evra - Here.
Nemanja Vidic - Here.
Rafael - Here.
Ryan Giggs - Here.
Paul Scholes - Here.
Darren Fletcher - Here.
Rio Ferdinand - Here.
Antonio Valencia - Here.
Wayne Rooney - Here.
Nani - Here.
Chicharito - Here.
Michael Carrick - Here.
David De Gea - Here.
Shinji Kagawa - New
Robin van Persie - New.
End of Season 13/14 (Moyes)
All of the above minus Paul Scholes = 14 players.
Adnan Januzaj - New.
Juan Mata - New. End of Season 14/15 (LVG)
Rafael - Here.
Wayne Rooney - Here.
Michael Carrick - Here.
David De Gea - Here.
Robin van Persie - Here.
Antonio Valencia - Here.
Juan Mata - Here.
Angel Di Maria - New.
Luka Shaw - New.
Ander Herrera - New.
Marcos Rojo - New.
Victor Valdez - New. End of Season 15/16
Wayne Rooney - Here.
Michael Carrick - Here.
David De Gea - Here.
Antonio Valencia - Here.
Juan Mata - Here.
Ander Herrera - Here.
Marcos Rojo - Here.
Anthony Martial - New.
Bastian Schweinsteiger - New.
Marcus Rashford - New. End of Season 16/17 (Jose Mourinho)
Michael Carrick - Here.
David De Gea - Here.
Antonio Valencia - Here.
Juan Mata - Here.
Ander Herrera - Here.
Marcos Rojo - Here.
Anthony Martial - Here.
Marcus Rashford - Here.
Zlatan Ibrahimovic - New.
Paul Pogba - New.
Henrikh Mkhitaryan - New.
Eric Bailly - New.
Season 17/18
Michael Carrick - Here.
David De Gea - Here.
Antonio Valencia - Here.
Juan Mata - Here.
Marcos Rojo - Here.
Anthony Martial - Here.
Marcus Rashford - Here.
Paul Pogba - Here.
Eric Bailly - Here.
Out of them all, arguably only 3 key players that have been here the longest; Carrick, De Gea and Valencia. Juan Mata is worth to be mentioned.
Contrast this with MCity.
End of Season 12/13
Vincent Kompany - Here.
Kolo Toure - Here.
Gael Clichy - Here.
Pablo Zabaleta - Here.
Aleksandar Kolarov - Here.
Gareth Barry - Here.
Nigel De Yong - Here.
Yaya Toure - Here.
David Silva - Here.
Samir Nasri - Here.
Carlos Tevez - Here.
Sergio Aguero - Here.
End of Season 13/14
Vincent Kompany - Here.
Gael Clichy - Here.
Pablo Zabaleta - Here.
Aleksandar Kolarov - Here.
Nigel De Jong - Here.
Yaya Toure - Here.
David Silva - Here.
Samir Nasri - Here.
Sergio Aguero - Here.
Fernandinho - New.
End of Season 14/15
Same one as above = 10 players.
Bacary Sagna - New.
End of Season 15/16
Same one as above = 11 players.
Kevin De Bruyne - New.
Raheem Sterling - New.
Nicolas Otamendi - New.
Fabian Delph - New.
End of Season 16/17 (Pep Guardiola)
Vincent Kompany - Here.
Gael Clichy - Here.
Pablo Zabaleta - Here.
Aleksandar Kolarov - Here.
Yaya Toure - Here.
David Silva - Here.
Sergio Aguero - Here.
Fernandinho - Here.
Kevin De Bruyne - Here.
Raheem Sterling - Here.
Nicolas Otamendi - Here.
Fabian Delph - Here.
Leroy Sane - New.
Gabriel Jesus - New.
IIkay Gundogan - New.
Season 17/18
Vincent Kompany - Here.
Yaya Toure - Here.
David Silva - Here.
Sergio Aguero - Here.
Fernandinho - Here.
Kevin De Bruyne - Here.
Raheem Sterling - Here.
Nicolas Otamendi - Here.
Fabian Delph - Here.
Leroy Sane - Here.
Gabriel Jesus - Here.
IIkay Gundogan - Here.
Their key players are much much longer and earlier, and at a far better age too, providing their team with greater stability and continuity, stronger spine. Most notable to be mention; David Silva, Sergio Aguero, Fernandinho, Kompany, Kolarov, Zabaleta and Yaya Toure. For this season, Silva, Fernandinho and Aguero, while the rest stabilize the ship up until last season. They have replaced their ageing past-it players much much quicker and much better too.
Thanks, was a bit worried the work and re-work would go to waste over the discussion that was going on.
Looking at the numbers has me reaffirming my thinking that Jose is doing a good job for the club, despite his & the team at times awful performances in individual games.
I certainly believe that he should be given another year.
Bet you took half a day to finish all of those up. Great job.
Certainly post-SAF, we're much much better, and steadily progressing. Still not good enough though, but since we're moving upwards, then yes, give him another season to continue improving our level, and then we'll see what to do next.
