Splits in the camp

rotherham_red

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Just read all your posts on this. The thing is, there is nothing more unforgivable for us supporters than players that couldn't give a toss. Part of me thinks "let him have it" because of the way he's acted. We could have the shittiest manager going, but when Pogba does what he's done then he's fair game. No matter what you think of Jose, Pogba is the one speaking out of turn and making a mockery of the club. By the sounds of it he doesn't even want to be here. That puts him at the bottom of the food chain as far as supporters are concerned.
But that's the thing, he wasn't totally terrible today. He was the only one who was looking to progress the play for us. He wasn't half-arsed. The rest of the attack was half-arsed in not giving any movement for him to work with. The midfield was half-arsed in the way that they didn't even bother trying to get the ball back or press WH, or in their making space for a pass or offering an option to the man on the ball. And the FBs were half-arsed in their activity at both ends of the pitch. He had a bad game, and he was slow in tracking back or getting off the ground after a tackle, but he was hamstrung by a shit system deployed by a manager who, it is pretty obvious to now say, had set up the team today to make a point and has put his own reputation ahead of the club in the process.

Yet hardly anything gets made of that and instead Pogba is getting the hate. It's obvious he's lost the players, so if this bullshit means that Pogba is gone then its fair to say we'll be screwed in the mid-term because to lose a manager who's last 5 seasons finishing positions have been 2nd, 6th, 10th (17th if we count the time at which he was sacked), 1st and 3rd, is not going to be difficult to get over but to lose someone who is the one lone spark in a team that is hideously underperforming when we ourselves are at a low ebb, will be one that will be very difficult to overcome. We have undoubtedly lost better players before, but it has been from a position of strength and more often than not, it was on our terms. If we call ourselves the biggest club in the world, what message will it send out to the rest of Europe if we lose our best player when we are at our lowest point? It'll cement us once and for all as the Liverpool of the modern era.
 

tjb

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This can realistically only end one way. People sometimes argue that it took Fergie 6 years to win the league but those were different times with different players. Sadly, when players decide they don't like a manager the manager goes.

I look forward to Jose going and us bringing in another manager and then suddenly, as if by magic, some of the mediocre or inconsistent players start to play well for a few games getting all our hopes up. Then the cracks will appear again and we'll be back to square one :(
They key is to get a recruitment director to get rid of those mediocre and inconsistent players. The club/board knows that those players are in the squad and had been supporting Jose prior in everything he had done, same with LVG. But Jose chose to go against the board and call them out two years in a row to the media, while playing us against PSG in February. This is different from a regular sacking, Jose played himself. For me its a bit like formula one, If you give pellegrini Aguero, Silva, Toure, and Kompany...he can win you the league because he is not a bad driver, but if you give him average players, at best he will come 8th. I've seen Avram Grant finish second with Chelsea. All we need to do is get a coach that will respect the values and culture of the club, pleasing fans by playing good football and is willing to stay long term. We have the financial resources to sign good players, what we need is a good squad builder who can negotiate transfers and fees for good value and being able to handle sales and releases. A guy that can work with the coach to see what assess the needs of the club and make it available.
 

Handsome Devil

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The trouble is, whoever is sacked or booted out, does anyone here have faith that anyone can fix it, or even be allowed to fix it without interference from the board.
The fans are trapped in a groundhog day from hell.
 

rotherham_red

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The fans are being manipulated by Jose. He leaked all this stuff about Pogba I bet. To be honest, I was amazed how much support Chelsea fans at their games had for him during their nightmare season, so I guess he's gotten to some of our fans in this way. However, with Chelsea fans, I could understand because he was the one who came in and started Chelsea on their winning streak. There would be an element of being grateful for what he'd done for them. However at United, we have no such history with him, it's completely baffling why he still gets that support. You're right, the media also has a lot to do with it.

We should remember though, the fans at games are only a portion of the whole fanbase. Other fans also spend money on subscriptions for Sky/BT or whatever - so money is spent whether fans are physically at the game or not. Therefore all fans have a say and I think the majority are completely over Jose and no longer buying his bs.

It's ironic that they booed LVG mercilessly, and he never disrespected the club on the scale of Mourinho.
Absolutely.

But the fans, especially the away lot are the best gauge of local sentiment and if this is repeated in later games this season then honestly, all bets are off. Jose is fecking done either way because I don't think there's even a professional relationship there between him and Ed right now. Pogba I still retain some hope that he'll stay simply because no one else can afford him on the package he's currently on at Utd but a big portion of our lot in the lower block (which is where I was) let themselves down badly today. I just hope once the miserable cnut in charge fecks off they'll see sense like the Chelsea lot did re Hazard.
 

Janson

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Honestly, up until Spurs I don't think many were backing Jose at all (post-Brighton I said that the fans were pretty much split three ways between the board, Jose, and the players, with most blaming a combination of Jose and the board) and then he did that utterly transparent bollocks with the Stretty and it literally turned 180 degrees, with the plane banner the next game and it's been building ever since. I just hope it doesn't lead to Pogba going off the back of fan pressure because if he left, feck me will we be in trouble. People can say we lost Becks, RVN, Cantona, et al but we lost them from a position of strength - not when we're fecking midtable!
You want us to beg Pogba to stay? It's not like he will go for free, we can get in two quality players for that money. That's how fans should look at it regardless of wanting Mourinho out or not. If a new manager comes in, that Pogba money will be worth much more to him than Pogba.
 

elnorte

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Honestly, up until Spurs I don't think many were backing Jose at all (post-Brighton I said that the fans were pretty much split three ways between the board, Jose, and the players, with most blaming a combination of Jose and the board) and then he did that utterly transparent bollocks with the Stretty and it literally turned 180 degrees, with the plane banner the next game and it's been building ever since. I just hope it doesn't lead to Pogba going off the back of fan pressure because if he left, feck me will we be in trouble. People can say we lost Becks, RVN, Cantona, et al but we lost them from a position of strength - not when we're fecking midtable!
I'm sorry but Pogba hasn't performed anywhere close to the level required in his time here for anyone to make such a claim.
 

rotherham_red

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You want us to beg Pogba to stay? It's not like he will go for free, we can get in two quality players for that money. That's how fans should look at it regardless of wanting Mourinho out or not. If a new manager comes in, that Pogba money will be worth much more to him than Pogba.
I'm sorry but Pogba hasn't performed anywhere close to the level required in his time here for anyone to make such a claim.
I didn't say anything about begging, but if we want to be seen as an elite club in the here and now, it's imperative that we keep a hold of him. Otherwise, we're no different than Liverpool. Also, he is literally the difference between us being closer to 7th than 17th. In a team as dysfunctional as ours has been, he's been pretty fecking good. The rest need to take a long hard look at themselves (edit - with the exception of Shaw and DDG), especially Lukaku and Matic.

EDIT - With the market the way it is right now, there's no way we're getting two players for whatever it will cost for us to sell Pogba. No fecking chance. Barca spent close to 300m on Dembele and Coutinho when Neymar left and the marketplace for quality CMs is rapidly diminishing, unless we go down the prospect route and get someone like Aouar, Ndombele, or De Jong. Any club who has someone we want will take us to the cleaners and the cost of that replacement will far outweigh whatever he will provide on the pitch, which is pretty much exactly your concerns re Pogba. So why not save us the bother, and get Pogba happy and playing in a manner which is more consistent with what he should be doing? Which is exactly the role of Jose. Yet, the dour cnut seems to have a blind spot to his own dereliction of duty...
 
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Janson

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Mourinho will walk, sooner or later, I have no doubt about it. Thing is, Zidane comes, he'll do great the first season he's here, depending how much he'll be here he may even do well for the 1.5 season (we probably won't win the league, FA Cup perhaps, maybe some Europa League win or a good run in the CL) and after that everything will go to shit again. We've seen it with Moyes, LVG and now Mourinho, it will be no different under whoever the feck comes in next, players will always find a reason why they don't like the manager, sooner or later, we genuinely need to re-do most of the structures at this club, stop throwing idiotic money at fecking wankers of players and managers and then perhaps some stability and sanity will be retained.

The player power plot from players who have achieved feck all at this club is hilarious to say the least. It was sort of understandable under Moyes when we've still had Rios, Rooneys et al. but if some kind of power struggle is led by sulking Martial, dablord and some other pawns who have shown nothing at all at United, we're trully fecked.
It's embarassing really.
 

Janson

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I didn't say anything about begging, but if we want to be seen as an elite club in the here and now, it's imperative that we keep a hold of him. Otherwise, we're no different than Liverpool. Also, he is literally the difference between us being closer to 7th than 17th. In a team as dysfunctional as ours has been, he's been pretty fecking good. The rest need to take a long hard look at themselves, especially Lukaku and Matic.
He's good, our best player probably, but he's also pretty immature and selfish. We're running the risk of him doing this again under the new manager.
 

Rash Decision

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I think we should worry about Pogba after we get a new manager in. Most likely his problem is purely with Mourinho. Wanting Pogba out now because he disrespected Mourinho seems vindictive more than anything. The upside of Pogba being happy and playing to his potential under a new manager is far, far greater than the vindictive satisfaction of "punishing" him for his behaviour.
 

rotherham_red

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He's good, our best player probably, but he's also pretty immature and selfish. We're running the risk of him doing this again under the new manager.
If he does the same under a new manager, then he's a lost cause and will deservedly be shipped out but his history up til now with Allegri, Conte and Deschamps has been exemplary with no cause for concern. Even when he was at Utd first time around, there was no concerns over his professionalism. However, with Jose, there's a literal book or two on what he's done at Real and Chelsea the second time round... And yet, some of our lot are still backing him. I'll say it for the third time: Its. fecking. Weird.
 

Jazz

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Absolutely.

But the fans, especially the away lot are the best gauge of local sentiment and if this is repeated in later games this season then honestly, all bets are off. Jose is fecking done either way because I don't think there's even a professional relationship there between him and Ed right now. Pogba I still retain some hope that he'll stay simply because no one else can afford him on the package he's currently on at Utd but a big portion of our lot in the lower block (which is where I was) let themselves down badly today. I just hope once the miserable cnut in charge fecks off they'll see sense like the Chelsea lot did re Hazard.
You met LVG once I believe? :) A decent man. Shame it didn't work out for him. The thing is the pressure and criticism was all on him. He took it on, and never threw players under the bus. Yet he was treated much worse. It is really ironic.

Yeah I agree Jose's provoked Woodward so doubt there is much of a relationship. Our reputation will be totally shot if he continues with Mourinho waiting to be mathematically out of CL places. I can't believe sponsors are thrilled at this kind of embarrassing negative nonsense.

Not sure re Pogba. I believe we need a new coach who can get the best out of him. Fans are not thinking clearly here. We need to maximise his value anyway if he still wants to go after Jose is sacked.
The situation now if we let Jose stay and get rid of Pogba in January, we will lose a lot of money. Jose doesn't care about any implications for the club, only that his ego is satisfied.
 

MrBest

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I don't buy into this sides rubbish. If push comes to shove and if Jose goes, Lukaku Sanchez Matic etc will be happy playing positive football that wins games. They would hardly strike over any decision. They probably are content with Jose as they want to stay in the side so are willing to do whatever he asks whether it is seen as positive and negative. The only thing that is certain is that we are 9 points off the top and 8 away from the bottom so bang in mid table. I can see us losing against Valencia and drawing against Newcastle. Jose will be around until Decemeber given Ed is slow as making decisions like this. It also wouldn't surprise me if Jose stayed until the end of the year or when it is mathamtically possible to not get in the top four, just as Ed did with Moyes and Gaal. In reality we need a change now (or 5 months ago) to save this season from getting even worse. 5 points off 4th is not the hardest to recover but we need to start stringing up 5 or 6 wins in a row and consistently 5 times! Right now, that seems impossible especially as there are onlg 31 games left to play, that is almost a quarter of the season gone. I have sympathy towards Jose but this job was always going to be too big for him. His style is too negative and needed to change everything he believed in order to win the fans over. Before that though, he needs the players. Some will do whatever he asks just to stay in the team and play but some will kick a fuss which is what has happened. Right now, if there was a side I'm strongly on Jose out.
 

Janson

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If he does the same under a new manager, then he's a lost cause and will deservedly be shipped out but his history up til now with Allegri, Conte and Deschamps has been exemplary with no cause for concern. Even when he was at Utd first time around, there was no concerns over his professionalism. However, with Jose, there's a literal book or two on what he's done at Real and Chelsea the second time round... And yet, some of our lot are still backing him. I'll say it for the third time: Its. fecking. Weird.
There haven't really been any problems at Pogbas former teams, so he didn't have a reason to complain. Letting a player have power over the manager can lead to all kind of complications, it's just not worth it. Regardless of how much you hate Mourinho. Imagine if we get a new manager and he's been here for two years, getting some of his players in and everything, but things don't go well results wise. And Pogba decides to go against the manager again, and mobilise half of the squad on his side. What do we do then? Do we fire that manager because of Pogba? And start another process with a new manager? What's stopping the other players doing the same thing when they can see that Pogba can get away with it?
 

scholesyboy18

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But that's the thing, he wasn't totally terrible today. He was the only one who was looking to progress the play for us. He wasn't half-arsed. The rest of the attack was half-arsed in not giving any movement for him to work with. The midfield was half-arsed in the way that they didn't even bother trying to get the ball back or press WH, or in their making space for a pass or offering an option to the man on the ball. And the FBs were half-arsed in their activity at both ends of the pitch. He had a bad game, and he was slow in tracking back or getting off the ground after a tackle, but he was hamstrung by a shit system deployed by a manager who, it is pretty obvious to now say, had set up the team today to make a point and has put his own reputation ahead of the club in the process.

Yet hardly anything gets made of that and instead Pogba is getting the hate. It's obvious he's lost the players, so if this bullshit means that Pogba is gone then its fair to say we'll be screwed in the mid-term because to lose a manager who's last 5 seasons finishing positions have been 2nd, 6th, 10th (17th if we count the time at which he was sacked), 1st and 3rd, is not going to be difficult to get over but to lose someone who is the one lone spark in a team that is hideously underperforming when we ourselves are at a low ebb, will be one that will be very difficult to overcome. We have undoubtedly lost better players before, but it has been from a position of strength and more often than not, it was on our terms. If we call ourselves the biggest club in the world, what message will it send out to the rest of Europe if we lose our best player when we are at our lowest point? It'll cement us once and for all as the Liverpool of the modern era.
Whatever you say, it does look like Pogba gives a shit. And wherever he goes , he would never be a great player, his attitude is all wrong.
Jose has to go, any decent manager can make 11 players to play as a team. Utd are not even doing simple basic stuff like pass and move. Majority of our players are average at best.

Lukkaku is a striker who is not comfortable with the ball, cannot create chances for others, cannot hold the ball, cannot even dribble. Entire defense is average. Matic is the only decent midfielder we have and its not saying much.

And the fact Felliani gets mentioned as the only decent player for United(at-least by some fans here)should tell us how low our expectations have become. This is a player who shouldn't be anywhere near a top 4 team. He is too slow, poor on the ball with no positional sense at all.

United is not winning the league for the next couple of seasons. Starting from Moyes, the damage has been getting worse. Each manager along with their signing's have made it worse.
 

rotherham_red

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There haven't really been any problems at Pogbas former teams, so he didn't have a reason to complain. Letting a player have power over the manager can lead to all kind of complications, it's just not worth it. Regardless of how much you hate Mourinho. Imagine if we get a new manager and he's been here for two years, getting some of his players in and everything, but things don't go well results wise. And Pogba decides to go against the manager again, and mobilise half of the squad on his side. What do we do then? Do we fire that manager because of Pogba? And start another process with a new manager? What's stopping the other players doing the same thing when they can see that Pogba can get away with it?
Like I said, if it happens again then it is obvious that Pogba is a cancer and will promptly be sold, but even if this is the case in this instance, then that doesn't absolve Jose. Everything that has happened thus far has been as a result of his actions - buying Sanchez and playing him on the left, dropping Martial and Pogba, fecking Sevilla which was the game where he finally lost me after I was wavering after the first leg, and then his utterly tedious campaign against the board in the summer - it's now clear that he's lost the players and he's just in damage limitation made and trying to protect what's left of his reputation rather than doing what's best for the club. The mans a cnut and I can't wait til he fecks off.

If Pogba is rotten, then he'll be promptly fecked off in due course as well, but I'd rather back the one player (along with DDG and other than his last two games, Shaw) who has consistently turned up for us this season than the manager who has slowly but surely killed what little momentum and good credit he built up during his first 8 months and rather than build up the precocious young talents at his disposal is more interested in having plodding cnuts like Fellaini and Matic stink up the place and kill the confidence of the members of his playing squad that don't do all that he wants.
 

Janson

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I think we should worry about Pogba after we get a new manager in. Most likely his problem is purely with Mourinho. Wanting Pogba out now because he disrespected Mourinho seems vindictive more than anything. The upside of Pogba being happy and playing to his potential under a new manager is far, far greater than the vindictive satisfaction of "punishing" him for his behaviour.
It's not about being vindictive. You really don't get it do you?
 

Janson

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Like I said, if it happens again then it is obvious that Pogba is a cancer and will promptly be sold, but even if this is the case in this instance, then that doesn't absolve Jose. Everything that has happened thus far has been as a result of his actions - buying Sanchez and playing him on the left, dropping Martial and Pogba, fecking Sevilla which was the game where he finally lost me after I was wavering after the first leg, and then his utterly tedious campaign against the board in the summer - it's now clear that he's lost the players and he's just in damage limitation made and trying to protect what's left of his reputation rather than doing what's best for the club. The mans a cnut and I can't wait til he fecks off.

If Pogba is rotten, then he'll be promptly fecked off in due course as well, but I'd rather back the one player (along with DDG and other than his last two games, Shaw) who has consistently turned up for us this season than the manager who has slowly but surely killed what little momentum and good credit he built up during his first 8 months and rather than build up the precocious young talents at his disposal is more interested in having plodding cnuts like Fellaini and Matic stink up the place and kill the confidence of the members of his playing squad that don't do all that he wants.
I didn't say Jose should be absolved of anything. It doesn't really matter who the manager is, it's the principle of not letting a player have power over the manager. Jose will be gone soon anyway, it doesn't have to be either or, they can both go. It's not Pogbas job to speak up against Mourinho in response to Mourinhos antics. It's the board that need to do something if they think it's not acceptable.

You say, if it happens again, he will be sold. But that won't help if the damage has already been done. He can get half the squad on his side against the manager. Do we sell half the squad then? That's creating a toxic enviroment, the same way Mourinho is.
 

steffyr2

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Mou is obsessed with the grafters and the donkeys so id say Fellaini, Matic, lingard Smalling, Valencia and Young are in the pro Mou camp
After watching what I saw today, I'd also be rather happy to find a few players who tried hard, 'cause they weren't much in evidence. Second to every ball...

Martial? When will he be showing that outstanding ability that I hear about?

I gather there's a game on Tuesday, did anyone think that maybe this lineup should be able to beat West Ham?
 

minoo-utd

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Club is a circus. Don't know the decision makers at this club what the feck they are doing?
 

beingshe7don

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Before we even started the game today, things which were indicative that we were going to struggle
1. Playing a 5-3-2 essentially against a West Ham team that has been struggling
2. Playing McTominay, Smalling and Lindelof in defense when Bailly was on the bench (It's common knowledge that Bailly is our best CB even though he had a terrible game against Brighton and yet McTominay who doesn't even have any experience playing in his best position was played out of position in defense or probably as a sweeper)
3. Playing Young as a RB... Not sure who is better Valencia or Young for the RB position... I think Dalot should have been given the chance considering he can actually whip in a cross
4. Sanchez and Lingard were dropped for this game but they didn't even feature on the bench... which gave us lack of options if the need arose (and it did arise and we had no one potent enough)
5. With a slow back 3 to begin with, our midfield of Fellaini, Pogba and Matic are tooooooo slow. That's now a slow back 3 followed by a slow midfield.... and not to mention... 3 defensive midfielders.
6. Playing that formation offered no width which meant Martial and Lukaku were up top expected to work magic when they had no service
7. The mindset was to grind out a 1-0 win against the Hammers which is unfortunately the wrong mindset to have when preparing for the game

Things over the course of the game which made no sense
1. Having Lindelof taken and McTominay carrying on in a CB partnership with Smalling. Not sure what was that all about.... Once again... Let me reiterate that Bailly our best defender was on the bench
2. Fred and Mata came on for Martial and Pogba.... that was when Jose threw in the towel. Yes, Pogba was having a bad game but can't really blame him considering the team was setup to fail. Slow midfielders around Pogba.... lack of width since Young and Shaw had to protect the "back 3" and Martial and Lukaku isolated up top would make any world class midfielder frustrated and ineffective. 2-0 down and Pogba (our best talismanic player) is taken off with 20 min in the game to go.
3. West Ham moved the ball a lot faster than we did from the start of the game... Our slow midfield and back three along with crappy formation just couldn't keep up.
4. Being 2-0 down at halftime, Mourinho should have made changes and brought on Rashford and Fred earlier on to ramp up the pace of our game which didn't happen until the hour mark.

Bottom line
1. Mourinho needs to take the blame for crappy tactics
2. The players didn't play well because they don't trust the manager's judgment
3. Fellaini, Matic, McTominay, Smalling and Young shouldn't be starting for a Champions League team. They are players that are good to come off the bench but should never be first 11 starters.
4. The players aren't playing for the manager and the manager just can't seem to get over his own ego.
5. Mourinho does not care about the results at United when he has to prove a point to nurture his ego. Hence, McTominay being played ahead of Bailly.

Verdict: Jose needs to go and go quickly... He was never a United boss... not that Zidane is the answer either but atleast the team will be lifted by new management. The team seems to have lost motivation. All of our world class players are under-performing pretty badly.
 

fezzerUTD

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Zlatan was a great link between Jose and the players...since his injury and leaving the harmony is the squad has gone to shit.
No he wasn’t he was told off for basically bullying the younger players where a 3rd party had to get involved.
 

Ban

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Mourinho will walk, sooner or later, I have no doubt about it. Thing is, Zidane comes, he'll do great the first season he's here, depending how much he'll be here he may even do well for the 1.5 season (we probably won't win the league, FA Cup perhaps, maybe some Europa League win or a good run in the CL) and after that everything will go to shit again. We've seen it with Moyes, LVG and now Mourinho, it will be no different under whoever the feck comes in next, players will always find a reason why they don't like the manager, sooner or later, we genuinely need to re-do most of the structures at this club, stop throwing idiotic money at fecking wankers of players and managers and then perhaps some stability and sanity will be retained.

The player power plot from players who have achieved feck all at this club is hilarious to say the least. It was sort of understandable under Moyes when we've still had Rios, Rooneys et al. but if some kind of power struggle is led by sulking Martial, dablord and some other pawns who have shown nothing at all at United, we're trully fecked.
Hear hear!
 

ToToMarshall

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Bet they have cracking 11v11s in training then.
Wonder who's on either side, what do you reckon a #MourinhoIn XI vs #MourinhoOut XI would look like?

Something like this?

------------------DDG
Darmian----Bailly----Lindelöf----Shaw
-----------------Pereira
--------------Pogba-Fred
Mata------------------------------Martial
----------------Rashford

-----------Sanchez-Lukaku
---------Herrera-----Fellaini
-----------------Matic
Young---------------------------Valencia
---Jones---Smalling---McTominay
----------------Romero
 
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el3mel

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Wonder who's on either side, what do you reckon a #MourinhoIn XI vs #MourinhoOut XI would look like?

Something like this?

------------------DDG
Darmian----Bailly----Lindelöf----Shaw
-----------------Pereira
--------------Pogba-Fred
Mata------------------------------Martial
----------------Rashford

-----------Sanchez-Lukaku
---------Herrera-----Fellaini
-----------------Matic
Young---------------------------Valencia
---Jones---Smalling---McTominqy
----------------Romero
I doubt Darmian is even giving a feck about this civil war. He's having nice time at Italy collecting his salary per month without even playing and enjoying his time after we refused to sell him. Easiest job in the world.
 

ToToMarshall

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I doubt Darmian is even giving a feck about this civil war. He's having nice time at Italy collecting his salary per month without even playing and enjoying his time after we refused to sell him. Easiest job in the world.
To be honest I didn't know who else to put there. Young and Valencia probably love Mou, and Dalot's not been around long and is probably too young to get involved like that, plus he probably looks up to Mou being Portuguese. Figured Darmian has the most reasons to dislike him out of the four.
 

pocco

loco
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Mar 17, 2010
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Keep a clean shit tomorrow, United is my final bus
But that's the thing, he wasn't totally terrible today. He was the only one who was looking to progress the play for us. He wasn't half-arsed. The rest of the attack was half-arsed in not giving any movement for him to work with. The midfield was half-arsed in the way that they didn't even bother trying to get the ball back or press WH, or in their making space for a pass or offering an option to the man on the ball. And the FBs were half-arsed in their activity at both ends of the pitch. He had a bad game, and he was slow in tracking back or getting off the ground after a tackle, but he was hamstrung by a shit system deployed by a manager who, it is pretty obvious to now say, had set up the team today to make a point and has put his own reputation ahead of the club in the process.

Yet hardly anything gets made of that and instead Pogba is getting the hate. It's obvious he's lost the players, so if this bullshit means that Pogba is gone then its fair to say we'll be screwed in the mid-term because to lose a manager who's last 5 seasons finishing positions have been 2nd, 6th, 10th (17th if we count the time at which he was sacked), 1st and 3rd, is not going to be difficult to get over but to lose someone who is the one lone spark in a team that is hideously underperforming when we ourselves are at a low ebb, will be one that will be very difficult to overcome. We have undoubtedly lost better players before, but it has been from a position of strength and more often than not, it was on our terms. If we call ourselves the biggest club in the world, what message will it send out to the rest of Europe if we lose our best player when we are at our lowest point? It'll cement us once and for all as the Liverpool of the modern era.
I know and appreciate the talent Pogba has. I know the issues he has also with our attack. But it's a culmination of everything that he is judged upon, and I don't think he's done enough or is important enough to act the way he does. For a start he's done nothing for us, he's been inconsistent at best and a hindrance at his worst. This isn't a player that deserves loyalty when he says the things he does. He's setting himself up for it big time and I'm actually worried about whether he is man enough to handle the backlash that I think might be on the horizon.

Just another thing, what you're saying is basically that Pogba is too good to be held accountable for his actions. That's part of the reason we're in this mess and why the players seem to be running the show, or at least trying to. We'll go on without Pogba, as much as I rate his talent and appreciate what he can do, I don't think he's as integral as some think. There might not be many midfielders with his talent, but others aren't far off but back it up with application also. Mark Noble, amongst many other midfielders with a fraction of his talent, is an example of a midfielder that has dominated him. I just can't bring myself to worry about losing that until he backs it up with top level consistency.

Whether it is Jose or the next guy, we need to allow somebody the freedom to go through this team and get rid of those not pulling in the right direction. Some seen happy to let our players get away with it yet again and see another manager brought in, giving them a complete clean slate. Fortunately, some also want to see our players held accountable also.
 

MVBDX

Full Member
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782
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The name of the thread fits most of Mou's past teams like a glove.
 

elmo

Can never have too many Eevees
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AKA: Slapanut Goat Smuggla
I think we should worry about Pogba after we get a new manager in. Most likely his problem is purely with Mourinho. Wanting Pogba out now because he disrespected Mourinho seems vindictive more than anything. The upside of Pogba being happy and playing to his potential under a new manager is far, far greater than the vindictive satisfaction of "punishing" him for his behaviour.
Pogba can feck right off now.

His inconsistent effort on the pitch is a huge reason why there's so much problem with the club. Drop him and Jose gets the blame for causing a rift between the both of them, play him through his bad form and we just see how terrible the team is because they can't afford to carry another passenger on the team.

He's paid like one of the best player in the world, it's time for him to actually step up and play like it. He's playing like he's in a fecking training session.
 

devilish

Juventus fan who used to support United
Joined
Sep 5, 2002
Messages
61,941
After watching what I saw today, I'd also be rather happy to find a few players who tried hard, 'cause they weren't much in evidence. Second to every ball...

Martial? When will he be showing that outstanding ability that I hear about?

I gather there's a game on Tuesday, did anyone think that maybe this lineup should be able to beat West Ham?
Martial did exceptionally well under LVG when we played some of the most defensive football in football's history. Yet he's struggling with Mou same as Rashford, Pogba, Sanchez, pretty much everyone apart from Fellaini.

The answer to your question is yes we should be able to beat West Ham. Could it be therefore that Mou has lost the dressing room? That is possible when the manager can't stop snapping at those around him. For example how do you think our CBs would interpret the fact that he preferred playing a midfielder in defence then them?
 

Sb_16

Full Member
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Jun 10, 2013
Messages
1,914
You can't bin everyone, let's be realistic.
So its either
  • Try the players with a new manager, or
  • Try the manager with a new set of players
I know which one is the most logical. If the players have stopped trying, which is difficult to say considering the tactics employed, it is because they dislike the manager rather than the club. We've seen it at many top clubs in the past. So if you distance yourself from the thinking 'the manger is the club' and come to terms with the manager not being good as well, it is much easier to come to a unbiased conclusion.
 

NotQuiteManc

Full Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2014
Messages
1,928
I am not sure if they are divided camps, but certainly on the pitch they look lost and unsure of what to do with the ball. It is almost a repeat of Moyes' era where the team just walk past through United's entire midfield, and the players were really useless at keeping possession and circulating the ball.

I think technically United has made progress but a very slow progress compared to other teams at the moment. They progressed from "no-midfield-and-not-be-able-to-maintain-possession" style to "bore-opposition-with-all-possession" style to "defensive-counter-attacking-but-mindless-otherwise" style of Mourinho. I guess United need a change and someone that is able to take this current group to the next level.