Ole cheated that day. Plain and simple.
Steven Gerrard
- Thread starter Brwned
- Start date
I don't think Ole cheated, nor Suárez in that instance - because they were not trying to deceive anyone.
What they did was probably not very sportsmanlike, nor noble, but that's does not necessarily mean "cheating".
What they did was probably not very sportsmanlike, nor noble, but that's does not necessarily mean "cheating".
ah come off it man, its blatant cheating.
It's obvious Gerrard was going to bring up United at some point in that interview, as many have said, but I don't really care, let him have as many little digs as he wants.
As for Solskjaer, wasn't he carded for a 'professional foul'? I don't really see that as cheating, he'd rather take the red than concede a goal. He walked straight off and no-one complained about it. Anyway, just my opinion.
As for Solskjaer, wasn't he carded for a 'professional foul'? I don't really see that as cheating, he'd rather take the red than concede a goal. He walked straight off and no-one complained about it. Anyway, just my opinion.
It's not cheating unless it's done deceptively in an attempt to get away with it, imo.
Winner.
The way some are going on in here, every time a player trips another when the ball is out of reach it constitutes cheating. It's ridiculous.
Suarez v Ghana was not cheating, the example of Solskjaer was not cheating. Suarez v Mansfield was, and the likes of diving is too. There has to be an element of deception for it to constitute cheating.
Doing and seeing are not very dissimilar. Carroll would have been very certain about the ball going over the line - it was halfway into the net. You could even argue that he did 'do', as he himself physically fumbled the ball into the goal.
I don't know how you can say they're not identical. In both cases the player is very certain as to what's happened.
Anyway, this is all about moral outrage, is it not? So to prove he isn't a cheat Carroll should've surely suggested to the referee that the ball was over line?
Why are Liverpool fans so obsessed with comparing everything to Man United?
Did Fergie say that Suarez should have owned up to the handball? No.
Did Fergie say his players would own up to a similar incident? No.
He said controversy follows Suarez around, which is blatantly true. And he does cheat. And we hope his cheating doesn't affect us tomorrow. Just as you hope an act of cheating by one of our players doesn't affect you tomorrow.
I'm not comparing anything to Utd. Gerrard did, and we're discussing that.
Yes you are.
The simple answer is shut up Gerrard, Ferguson didn't say his players would own up to similar, so why make a comparison.
It's just typical of the Liverpool point the finger at someone else mentality, always looking for the 'what abar that time United did this like.'
It is an obsession. A picture on twitter was doing the rounds today with all the times that a United player has handled the ball, asking why we didn't own up to them.
Seriously, why?
FFS, this all did he cheat or not bollocks is so irrelevant to why Suarez is such a massive twat. It's only a small facet of his general demeanour.
LOTS of players dive, handball and try to deceive the referee to gain an advantage on the football field - Suarez does all of that in addition to racial abuse, biting opponents, pulling opponent's hair, potential leg breaking tackles and kicking people deliberately. THAT is why he's hated. Focusing on the handball aspects and using a tu quoque argument ignores the main source of his cuntishness.
LOTS of players dive, handball and try to deceive the referee to gain an advantage on the football field - Suarez does all of that in addition to racial abuse, biting opponents, pulling opponent's hair, potential leg breaking tackles and kicking people deliberately. THAT is why he's hated. Focusing on the handball aspects and using a tu quoque argument ignores the main source of his cuntishness.
I'm doing nothing but discussing what Gerrard's brought up.
Carroll's was a similar incident and we're playing you today, that's why.
Seeing as you're (along with Everton) our biggest rivals, the comparisons and attacks on Utd are always going to be there. It's just the way it is. If you live in England you'll know that Utd and Liverpool fans will use anything to attack one another.
Anyway, this 'point the finger at someone else' mentality is more or less human nature, not just something you can level at Liverpool fans.
No. Carroll has nothing to do with Suarez.
Ferguson said controversy follows Suarez around.
He didn't say he should have owned up to the handball, and he didn't say our players would own up in similar circumstances.
So Carroll is completely irrelevant.
This handball incident is a non-incident, and merely distracts from the countless things Suarez has done to earn his reputation which Ferguson refers to.
When a player is a racist, assaults opponents, dives, bites, rolls around and feigns injury, something like a handball is irrelevant, but nonetheless, will be highlighted due to his previous indiscretions.
Don't forget that he always, always plays the victim in these cases.
That's the despicable shit cherry on top of the general arse cake.
Cheating is deliberately breaking the rules to gain an advantage. Just because you're punished doesn't mean you haven't cheated.
If it's deliberate then it is.
You mention Fergie having no class in a discussion about Suarez? Very good.
"He probably won't get the credit he deserves after everything that's happened and everything he's been through"
Disgusting.
Disgusting.
The Carroll incident is very much relevant when considering what Suarez did vs Mansfield. As I've said, they're both similar incidents and that's why Gerrard's mentioned Carroll. The fact we're playing you & you are our arch rivals further contributes to the reasoning behind him commenting on Carroll and not another random incident. It can be interpreted as a dig, but that's to be expected.
Well at least we can agree on one thing.
Can't you just accept Gerrard was wrong to bring it up, seeing as Ferguson had made no assertion that our players would act differently.
I wouldn't be surprised if Gerrard had been briefed beforehand by the braindead PR team at Liverpool to bring it up as a petty pre-emptive strike against a statement that was never made.
As I touched on, it's got that sort of amateur obsessive 'what about United' stink of it.
Roy Carroll had a single indiscretion. Suarez has multiple including much more vile incidents than this. That's what Ferguson is referring to.
No one really gives a feck about the handball in isolation. It just seems unsavoury in the context of racism, serial cheating and trying to injure opponents.
It's an expected comment really. I agree that it does have a bit of a deflective shine to it, but that's nothing new either.
I didn't say Suarez cheated last week. Whether he did or didn't, what Gary Neville believes on the subject means nothing to me.
Cheating
noun
a person who behaves dishonestly in order to gain an advantage.
noun
a person who behaves dishonestly in order to gain an advantage.
So Solskjaer's made an honest foul which you call cheating, but Suarez has knowingly handled the ball and he's not cheating?
We can't know for sure that Suarez meant to handle it. I think we know Solskjaer intended to bring down Lee.
Dishonest being the operative word. There's nothing dishonest about a professional foul, or a deliberate foul or whatever you want to call it. Yes, an advantage is gained, but that doesn't imply dishonesty.
Suarez v Ghana wasn't dishonest, Solskjaer's example wasn't dishonest. Roy Carrolls was, Suarez v Mansfield was.
Just going round in circles now. Hopefully he has a stinker tomorrow so there's something else to talk about.
It isnt cheating if you get your just deserts. Ole got sent off for example. Suarez got a goal he shouldnt have. If Ole hadn't had a freekick given against him or a card, and he rolled around on the floor as if he got his like some players do when they make a controversial challenge, then he'd be cheating.
Instead it was an obvious foul with an obvious red card. He knew before he did it.
Instead it was an obvious foul with an obvious red card. He knew before he did it.
Thing is as other posters have pointed out its the regularity of the stuff Suarez does. For the life of me I cant see much lower points in Ole's career when he resorted to less than savoury tactics to win us a game.
2. To violate rules deliberately, as in a game: was accused of cheating at cards.
It's cheating. Being punished is irrelevant.
Punishment is not irrelevant. Rules in football specify punishments, they give specific penalties for particular fouls. You can't compare it to a definition which mentions a game of cards - rules in cards don't specify punishments, they just say "you can't do x, y or z".
The quote from Neville sums it up neatly, though I would include diving as cheating too.
Deliberatelyhandling the ball to create, or deny, a clear goal scoring opportunity is cheating.
Suarez v Ghana? Cheating.
Suarez v Mansfield Town? Cheating.
Suarez v Ghana? Cheating.
Suarez v Mansfield Town? Cheating.
Neville is full of shit and simply justifying cheating.
This about X 100.Unbelievable to differentiate cheating by the fact one gets punished and one doesn't.There is the same initial intent.
G.Neville isn't the football Bible ffs, no obligation to agree with him all the time even if he's a United legent
It depends on who did it? If it was one of our rivals, then we'd be screaming murder...
of feck off.
Solskjaer did not cheat. If your going to call that cheating then every single foul is cheating. Roy Carroll did not cheat, he made a mistake. Suarez did not cheat vs Ghana.
Suarez against Mansfield was cheating as he deliberately handled the ball and went on to score.
If you can't see the differences between the incidents then you need help. I am not saying United players have never cheated (there are probably loads of examples of us cheating as well) but justifying Suarez's cheating against Mansfield by bringing up incidents that are completely different in nature is stupid.