Those defending Suarez are depressing me... I doubt they even represent their culture but it's an easy thing for them to say. 'It's cultural'... fcuk off...
Suarez bites | "sorry for falling into him and biting him and that"
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
For a start, whataboutery is pretty much the corner stone for most footballing arguments so it's kind of normal that such an approach is used when discussing the relative badness of what Suarez has done.
Secondly, the whole western judicial process is built around a principle of whataboutery - it's called precedent and it informs how contemporary decisions are made by using past examples and "referring to events from the past". Gauging the appropriate length of a ban is better done in the context of using what has gone on before.
To do so is not an excuse for what somebody has done, it's just establishing a perspective. Suggesting that worse has happened than what Suarez did is not the same as saying Suarez's bite wasn't that bad. However, to even discuss the incident from the perspective of comparing it to other past incidents attracts accusations of being an apologist for the bite. That's just simplistic and eliminates rational debate.
The problem with the Suarez incident is that referencing previous (more dangerous) on-field conduct seems to stir some up into an angry frenzy. It's as if such discussion should be dismissed so we can all come up with what we personally think should happen to Suarez. Rational legal-based logic appears to trouble those who just want rid of Suarez. That's because there's a danger that using such an approach may actually see Suarez's ban less than they wish.
Sorry but it has to be done.
To all those Liverpool fans ive engaged with in the newbs and up here,
,told you so.
True colours,leopards and spots etc etc.
It warms the cockles of my heart that the epitome of whats wrong with the game,without a whole spiel of his criminal behaviour,will be fecked out of it in his prime.
Oh the mersey will burst its banks with some sense of moral injustice.
Enjoy last years memories la"s because the racist has finally been found out.
Im so happy.
To all those Liverpool fans ive engaged with in the newbs and up here,
,told you so.True colours,leopards and spots etc etc.
It warms the cockles of my heart that the epitome of whats wrong with the game,without a whole spiel of his criminal behaviour,will be fecked out of it in his prime.
Oh the mersey will burst its banks with some sense of moral injustice.
Enjoy last years memories la"s because the racist has finally been found out.
Im so happy.
Do you not see the irony in all that? For one thing, it's a bit rich for the rest of us to be accused of rampant melodrama by the most melodramatic fans on the planet.
Not true.
Erm.. A weapon is just the one case (punctuation!!) so if that's what you "covered" then your "coverage" is incomplete. Note the word "often" and the "commas".
In another case the person may feel threatened due to a belief in a future event. It possible that this belief is triggered simply by your presence - which in and of itself is not a crime at all.
This may in large part be based on the severity of your behaviour in the past so in turn ends up being a punishment based on assumptions (sometimes more irrational than not) of your behaviour in the future..
My favourite is the "Suarez Park" image.
For those who havent seen
For those who havent seen
As disgraceful an act it was
a 2 year world wide ban would itself be an injustice to Suarez, he does not deserve that imo, way over the top, he's hardly crippled someone, not that I'm condoning his actions for a 3rd time
Suarez Loves playing for his country, he was fixated on this world cup during the build up, as much of a tit he is...he still must be kicking himself over his actions, the statement he made won't help matters but it was right after the match, I'm sure he's reflected on the situation now and hopefully realises he's messed up big time, for me a suitable ban would be to ban him from his international duties for 1/2 years meaning he misses out on Uruguay's defence of their Copa America Title next summer, that will hurt him
Liverpool shouldn't have to suffer, Uruguay didn't suffer when he was issued a 10 man ban for Liverpool
I'm pretty disappointed with Uruguay's reaction to this though from their players and Manager, its un defendable, at least Liverpool made Suarez publicly apologise on the day etc Uruguay don't seem to think he's don't anything wrong
a 2 year world wide ban would itself be an injustice to Suarez, he does not deserve that imo, way over the top, he's hardly crippled someone, not that I'm condoning his actions for a 3rd time
Suarez Loves playing for his country, he was fixated on this world cup during the build up, as much of a tit he is...he still must be kicking himself over his actions, the statement he made won't help matters but it was right after the match, I'm sure he's reflected on the situation now and hopefully realises he's messed up big time, for me a suitable ban would be to ban him from his international duties for 1/2 years meaning he misses out on Uruguay's defence of their Copa America Title next summer, that will hurt him
Liverpool shouldn't have to suffer, Uruguay didn't suffer when he was issued a 10 man ban for Liverpool
I'm pretty disappointed with Uruguay's reaction to this though from their players and Manager, its un defendable, at least Liverpool made Suarez publicly apologise on the day etc Uruguay don't seem to think he's don't anything wrong
Rooney was going bald at 10?
Saw this one on Facebook...
I think a lengthy international ban is the most likely outcome.
That said if you have someone who has bitten people on the pitch three times, there is a risk of him doing it again regardless of whether it is at international or club level, so with that viewpoint I can see an argument for a ban from both international and club level.
The poor PL defenders arent going to be sleeping any better at night knowing that Suarez wont be playing for Uruguay, after all.
That said if you have someone who has bitten people on the pitch three times, there is a risk of him doing it again regardless of whether it is at international or club level, so with that viewpoint I can see an argument for a ban from both international and club level.
The poor PL defenders arent going to be sleeping any better at night knowing that Suarez wont be playing for Uruguay, after all.
It might actually increase his value to Barca if he is banned from Uruaguy for 2 years, he'll be fresher for them and less likely to het injured. be careful what you wish for.
Sky saying there may be news around 2:30 PM GMT
The FIFA Committee is waiting to see the size of the brown envelopes before deciding whether he's guilty.
Van Pierse
Liverpool and Juventus in the Champions League anyone?
But he is more of an amusing oddity to them by default, because he doesn't play in Brazil. We've seen him dive, and bite and racially abuse players in our league for years now. To them he's a recognisable figure who's turned up at their big party, which they're enjoying immensely and expected to win and done something stupid. To us he's continued a long line of offences we've been very privy to. If his litany of misdemeanours had been in the Brazilian league, or all in this World Cup (somehow?) I'm sure they'd be less flippancy.
I definitely agree that things like diving have hugely different cultural attitudes to them, but biting players in football, three times, isn't something that's "culturally" more accepted anywhere. No ones ever done it before!
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Yup.
Blatter's going to pull the punishment out of the envelope like his reelection.
It's irrelevant what he wants to be fair, he'll always give everything on the pitch cause thats all how he works, if we can get above 70 id definitely sell but otherwise he'll just have to get on with it
He jeopardises peoples safety,and if he was fond guilty of committing and convicted the way he was in the football world,here in the real world,hed be in jail.
Mate your blinded by the loyalty of your club,but as we all saw and have pointed out for seasons to ye this was going to happen again.
What a simpleton doing it at the world cup and his subsequent statements.
Hes your boy,take responsibility and form into account and look at it objectively.
In the words of Arnie "Stop whiiining".
He is more than deserving of an international ban the absolute dirtbag.
The point is, read my posts properly before you comment. There's nothing more annoying then someone who deliberately misquotes what I said to win a debate. I already said he deserves an international ban for a year or two. I was just suggesting that biting isn't worse then the other things I mentioned such as a headbutt, having a leg broken in half. And it isn't, but that doesn't mean I'm suggesting biting as an okay thing to do.
Have the t shirts been printed yet?
Also why is everyone down playing the damage of a bite? You can spread some pretty serious diseases that way.
Spitting on the floor isn't vile. It's clearing the mouth of flem during exercise etc... Not sure why you bring spitting into it because Suarez didn't spit on anyone.
I don't need to do any research on biting, a human bite is is more serious then a dog bite. There's more diseases in a human bite.
A bad tackle is an occupational hazard. As a footballer you willingly submit yourself to a situation where you're going to be subject to physical challenge. When you are and it's a bad one and you break your leg or get injured somehow, it's unfortunate but that's a risk of the game. Crashing in F1 is also a risk, doesn't mean if someone runs from another car in a pit-stop and shoves a needle in your leg their defence can be "Now what's worse, crashing at 120mph or a pin prick?"
It's not about defending Suarez. It's about the idea that what Suarez had done is just as bad which it seems is being suggested. Provocation or not, what Cantona did was worse and whether it was the face or the chest, it was much more dangerous.
Yes and Cantona was punished (heavily) and didn't do it again.
Have to say that his defence is laughable. There's not a criminal court in the civilised world that would buy it let alone a disciplinary tribunal that works on a lesser burden of proof (balance of probabilities).
Given the stage he has done this on, this being his third offence also coupled with his refusal to take any responsibility for his actions he will cop a whack. Denunciation, likelihood of reoffending and protection of other players are all going to be big considerations.
I also don't buy the argument that this is not as bad as elbowing or reckless tackling. FIFA have been very clear on their view of vile and repugnant behaviour and is why spitting at an opponent cops an automatic 6 match ban under their disciplinary code. Biting is much worse than spitting surely?
Given the stage he has done this on, this being his third offence also coupled with his refusal to take any responsibility for his actions he will cop a whack. Denunciation, likelihood of reoffending and protection of other players are all going to be big considerations.
I also don't buy the argument that this is not as bad as elbowing or reckless tackling. FIFA have been very clear on their view of vile and repugnant behaviour and is why spitting at an opponent cops an automatic 6 match ban under their disciplinary code. Biting is much worse than spitting surely?
Regardless of what some Liverpool fans are saying about this, my broader point about being able to discuss and judge this with perspective still stands.
By constantly clouding the discourse with blinkered tribalism (from both sides) you are left with hysteria, exaggeration and anger.
I can't see Uruguay admitting anything.
Lot's of South American cultures place a high value on protecting their own…it's called individualism v collectivism.
I use this in cultural training with my work and it's an extensive study but here is a brief Wiki overview.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hofstede's_cultural_dimensions_theory
In some research undertaken by cultural expert Hofstede, he analysed the responses people would give to the police in different types of circumstances.
In Europe, individual integrity is a massive thing, so if someone in your family killed someone (as an extreme example), you would be honest with the police and NOT support your family member. Doing the right thing and taking personal responsibility is critical…it's about being honest within societal norms.
South American countries ranked the lowest to this question, saying they wouldn't help police and would 100% back their own. They have a collective view on responsibility and as a consequence incredible loyalty to each other regardless of the behaviour.
So there is a culture clash here between European press demanding one thing and a Uruguayan Football Team responding completely different. It has nothing to do with whether or not the Uruguay FA, management or players saw anything, agree Suarez bit someone or think he should be punished.
It is totally within their cultural norm to protect their own and admit nothing.
It's not right or wrong….it's just different.
That's racist.