That would be a massive down grade, after Moyes scouting of Kroos, Vidal, Pogba and then his comments on "we are going for the very best" and then end up with Tote.....
Summer transfer window
- Thread starter Rozay
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
I dont mind Tiote, United need a ball winner more that anything.
We'll probably get Carvalho for the defensive role. No chance of Tiote, he's not good enough now so he never will be.
He's a truly appalling footballer.
Signing Tiote would just be signing another 'hardman' like Fellaini who is lacking in tactical awareness and positional play. No thanks.
Tiote is a bit shit. A thug who while is good at tackling, is pretty bad at everything else. Would be dissapointed if we get him.
We need intelligent players, good on the ball that kind of thing. Tiote is like the anti-Scholes.
Sounds good and if we will really sign many players it will be something like this. People who think that we will sign 4-5 Matas (world class players) and out net spend on the summer will be 100m+ make me laugh.
I was only messing about but now im curious as to what it said... PM me please!
'D a t'
We shouldn't be going near Tioté, we already have a useless energetic midfielder in Cleverley.
I hope the two previous transfer windows will have been a serious learning curve for Moyes. We can't afford to hold out for top quality talent again. Seeing as we'll be in the Europa League I do think it lowers our potential market down a tier or two. I'm not expecting any Mata level signings, unless money hungry mercenaries we're happy to indulge becomes available. We should be focusing on the biggest and best talent currently playing in the Europa League, France and Portugal.
I hope the two previous transfer windows will have been a serious learning curve for Moyes. We can't afford to hold out for top quality talent again. Seeing as we'll be in the Europa League I do think it lowers our potential market down a tier or two. I'm not expecting any Mata level signings, unless money hungry mercenaries we're happy to indulge becomes available. We should be focusing on the biggest and best talent currently playing in the Europa League, France and Portugal.
If we sign players like Tiote......then we're on the way to be the Liverpool of the last 20 years
We need players like Vidal
We need players like Vidal
There's an extremely rare chance of a signing of that magnitude materializing in the summer. And I mean extremely rare.
It is, but our signings certainly need to be a level or two above someone like Tiote. Cabaye would have been a good start.
Like I said, we should be scouting the best talent in the Europa League, French league and Portuguese league.
Yeah. Tiote would have been better then Fellaini simply because he can actually run around a lot more but he's still nowhere near the class required. Ideally we need a more energetic and defensive player in midfield, next to a deeper playmaker but one who also is a hard worker so we can play a front 4 of Januzaj, Mata, Rooney and RVP (or put Kagawa there).
I don't think we should limit how expansive our scouting should be. It's simplistic, but players that seem realistically attainable we should pursue. I don't think many will expect a Vidal, Kroos or Gundogan, but there will be exceptional circumstances where we could sign quality players playing in a strong league, or even in Champions League football.
I'm not expecting much to get excited about this Summer, but the allure of Manchester United still stands strong.
Of course there's a massive allure surrounding Manchester United. But there's no doubting we'll look a less appealing move this summer than summer's before.
I do think we'll aim high, I've genuine belief that's the plan now. I didn't before Mata, but the Glazer's and Woodword shut me up. I just don't see how we plan to attract the top talents in world football without Champions League football and a manager with question marks over his head.
Possibly, I wasn't exactly happy with the Fellaini signing - to say the least - but I'd rather have him than Tiote. Fellaini might not be as mobile as Tiote, but despite being clumsy, he isn't as reckless or tactically inept as him. He's also technically superior and due to his aerial ability he's more of a goal-threat and in theory, should be a much better asset from set-plays.
I think if we do move towards a forward four like you've said, we would need our central midfielders to be very well-rounded, both sound defensively and provide something offensively, obviously that mightn't be too important as they would be more of a holding double pivot while the front four create. A deep midfielder possessing a good passing range and vision to dictate and set the platform for our attacking players to be at their most effective and a dynamic box-to-box midfielder who can press the opposition and support the attack from midfield, but also cover a lot of ground defensively.
It's nothing new, but I do believe we need two central midfielders who can both improve on what we have. Our midfield might be a cesspool of shite, but even Tiote wouldn't improve it.
I'm not saying he'd improve it, he'd just add another number of shite in there just like Fellaini did. Anyways, I agree with your point overall. We need more rounded midfielders, and I really hope we go back in for somebody for Koke because he is one of those who are good all round but are also very good on the ball and smart with it. Koke, Kroos (or someone like them) next to a defensive midfielder or box to box midfielder (Bender, Vidal, Carvalho, etc.) would be perfect, and it'd probably be enough to make up for the managerial deficiencies we currently have and get us into the top 4 comfortably.
I've already said about it on another thread, but if Moyes is still in charge I think our window will unfortunately be another cock-up of monumental proportions, not to the extent of last Summer mind you. I think we'll sign maybe three or four players, but none will be particularly eye-catching.
It's all well and good to hear Moyes and Woodwards supposed 'vision' and plans for the Summer, but it's another thing executing those plans. Our transfer dealings during the Moyes era have been completely amateurish and I'm mystified to some of the players we've not pursued. I'm sure Moyes and Woodward have a dossier of players they will enquire about or scout, but half of them could be ticked off if we don't finish top four.
There's a number of factors that will play a part in players seeing us as an attractive proposition, but the manager is not one of them. If we had a Klopp or Simeone in charge I would feel far more confident in our chances of signing top bracket players. As it is, having Moyes might genuinely be more damaging to our transfer activity than no Champions League football.
Can't argue against any of those players. Particularly Koke, who has an abundance of technical ability, but also incredibly hard-working and it wouldn't be hard to adhere himself to Moyes when he's a good crosser of the ball!
I'm not saying he'd improve it, he'd just add another number of shite in there just like Fellaini did. Anyways, I agree with your point overall. We need more rounded midfielders, and I really hope we go back in for somebody for Koke because he is one of those who are good all round but are also very good on the ball and smart with it. Koke, Kroos (or someone like them) next to a defensive midfielder or box to box midfielder (Bender, Vidal, Carvalho, etc.) would be perfect, and it'd probably be enough to make up for the managerial deficiencies we currently have and get us into the top 4 comfortably.
I would love one of each category you've stated, but we don't know what the opposition will be like next season. Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool all seem to be on an upward trajectory and even with those signings potentially solving our midfield deficiencies, the problems lie deeper with that.
Don't want to sound like I'm bashing Moyes for the sake of it, but even if we had eleven World Class players in every position, I wouldn't feel confident about us enjoying any success with him in charge.
Yeah I agree with you. We need to strengthen the midfield and left back positions regardless of who is in charge though, but the difference is that with Moyes we could probably get 4th but still being pretty dull to watch, but with a truly top manager we could challenge properly on all fronts.
That's the crux of it. If you have great players they will invariably get positive results most of the time, despite who's in charge. But I don't believe Moyes is tactically astute enough to implement a more positive and fluid style, while also changing his outdated coaching methods. Both are aspects that would result in said players not being used as effectively as possible.
There's a bit of a love-in with Kagawa on here and my opinion hasn't wavered despite not being very successful here. He is still a quality player that is rendered redundant due to the way we play. I firmly believe that and I just hope the same won't apply to Mata.
I've just been talking with my mates about United and what is required this summer. Some of the opinions on our players are pretty scary really, as most of them support League 1 teams and are pretty neutral. The first thing to mention is the players that currently have huge question marks over them with regards to them even being here next season. I'll list the players that, between us, we thought were potentially on the move. I'd like to hear other opinions on this list.
Evra
Vidic
Ferdinand
Nani
Young
Anderson
Kagawa
Hernandez
Rooney
Buttner
Giggs
Anderson18 posted a pretty much identical list of players, but I don't think enough has been said about this. That's a ridiculous list of players! When you consider that we already need to beef up in midfield and left back, is it even possible to rebuild in one summer to the extent that would be required if they all left? We're talking about probably needing a new CB, 2 new LB's, a striker or two, new wingers/attacking midfielders and obviously central midfielders. Potentially 7-9 players. Plus any other players we may need to bulk up the squad.
Ideally we will refuse to let them all go at once. From that list there's a few that I think we should/can keep around a bit longer, though they do have question marks over them. The Rooney situation is quite a big one, though I suspect that Mata may have been brought in as his eventual replacement to give us less to do in the summer. But...
Kagawa - Will we want to keep him/will he want to stay?
Vidic/Ferdinand/Evra - All highly likely to leave I feel.
Nani - Maybe the reports of us looking to sell him were false and he will stay.
Young - I think he might be kept around just to make up the numbers for now.
Anderson - As good as gone.
Rooney - May sign a new deal, though it looks less likely as each day passes.
Hernandez - I think he'll be moved on and will also want to leave. Got a sneaky feeling he'll end up at Athletico Madrid.
Buttner - May be kept round for back up.
Giggs - Will call it a day.
In an ideal world that leaves us needing midfielders, a new CB, a new LB and a new striker. How does everyone else see the immediate future of these players playing out and what will be needed afterwards?
EDIT: Some of my mates didn't think Rafael is too great. Is that a consideration? At the very least we probably need some back up for him too.
Evra
Vidic
Ferdinand
Nani
Young
Anderson
Kagawa
Hernandez
Rooney
Buttner
Giggs
Anderson18 posted a pretty much identical list of players, but I don't think enough has been said about this. That's a ridiculous list of players! When you consider that we already need to beef up in midfield and left back, is it even possible to rebuild in one summer to the extent that would be required if they all left? We're talking about probably needing a new CB, 2 new LB's, a striker or two, new wingers/attacking midfielders and obviously central midfielders. Potentially 7-9 players. Plus any other players we may need to bulk up the squad.
Ideally we will refuse to let them all go at once. From that list there's a few that I think we should/can keep around a bit longer, though they do have question marks over them. The Rooney situation is quite a big one, though I suspect that Mata may have been brought in as his eventual replacement to give us less to do in the summer. But...
Kagawa - Will we want to keep him/will he want to stay?
Vidic/Ferdinand/Evra - All highly likely to leave I feel.
Nani - Maybe the reports of us looking to sell him were false and he will stay.
Young - I think he might be kept around just to make up the numbers for now.
Anderson - As good as gone.
Rooney - May sign a new deal, though it looks less likely as each day passes.
Hernandez - I think he'll be moved on and will also want to leave. Got a sneaky feeling he'll end up at Athletico Madrid.
Buttner - May be kept round for back up.
Giggs - Will call it a day.
In an ideal world that leaves us needing midfielders, a new CB, a new LB and a new striker. How does everyone else see the immediate future of these players playing out and what will be needed afterwards?
EDIT: Some of my mates didn't think Rafael is too great. Is that a consideration? At the very least we probably need some back up for him too.
@pocco
Agree, this summer is a huge rebuilding job. I mentioned it a few times (those exact players really, only adding in Fabio who already left) but people have just been saying there's no way that there will be around 10 players leaving, its just an exaggeration, but when you go through it man by man, its a very realistic scenario.
Evra has already said he's not extending his contract for personal reasons (wanting to finish his career in Monaco) yet most people seem to ignore this. Fabio is gone, Buttner is crap and will likely be gone, Rio's time is surely coming to an end with his contract expiring in the summer, and Vidic apparently is set to join Inter on a free. Kagawa and Hernandez are both too good to sit on the bench and be wasted like they are, so will be pushing for a move in the summer even if we might not want them to leave. Anderson is gone, Giggs will most likely retire, then we also have Cleverley who we might want to get rid of to free up space in midfield for actual quality in that position.
That's already 9 first team/squad players that are almost definitely leaving this summer, maybe 10 if you include Cleverley, and all that before looking at Rooney, RVP, Young, Valencia or Nani, who there are all serious question marks over. Of that list they all obviously won't leave, but I can see 2 of them leaving (1 of Rooney/RVP, and then 1 of the wingers).
12 players in 1 summer, all players who have been key or first 11 players at one time during the last 3-4 years, other then Anderson and Buttner who have always been squad players at best (anderson through injuries though).
People expecting a massive change in our fortunes and better performances I think will be quite disappointed unless the right changes are made (which in my opinion include a change of manager, but I doubt it'll happen this summer, more likely in december if things don't improve).
Agree, this summer is a huge rebuilding job. I mentioned it a few times (those exact players really, only adding in Fabio who already left) but people have just been saying there's no way that there will be around 10 players leaving, its just an exaggeration, but when you go through it man by man, its a very realistic scenario.
Evra has already said he's not extending his contract for personal reasons (wanting to finish his career in Monaco) yet most people seem to ignore this. Fabio is gone, Buttner is crap and will likely be gone, Rio's time is surely coming to an end with his contract expiring in the summer, and Vidic apparently is set to join Inter on a free. Kagawa and Hernandez are both too good to sit on the bench and be wasted like they are, so will be pushing for a move in the summer even if we might not want them to leave. Anderson is gone, Giggs will most likely retire, then we also have Cleverley who we might want to get rid of to free up space in midfield for actual quality in that position.
That's already 9 first team/squad players that are almost definitely leaving this summer, maybe 10 if you include Cleverley, and all that before looking at Rooney, RVP, Young, Valencia or Nani, who there are all serious question marks over. Of that list they all obviously won't leave, but I can see 2 of them leaving (1 of Rooney/RVP, and then 1 of the wingers).
12 players in 1 summer, all players who have been key or first 11 players at one time during the last 3-4 years, other then Anderson and Buttner who have always been squad players at best (anderson through injuries though).
People expecting a massive change in our fortunes and better performances I think will be quite disappointed unless the right changes are made (which in my opinion include a change of manager, but I doubt it'll happen this summer, more likely in december if things don't improve).
Surely players like Rooney and RVP will request for transfer listed if we fail to finish top 4 this season?
I think we'll try and keep Vidic, Cleverley and possibly Valencia and Young. The only nailed on departures imo are Evra, Rio and Giggs. He surely can't go on another year? Buttner will probably stay and be back up to whoever we bring in as first choice.
Young, Rooney and Büttner I think will stay. Moyes is using Young and he hasn't been as bad as many have been claiming, alot beter than Valencia that is for sure, on top of that I don't think he wants to leave either and no club will come in for him with that kind of salary. I think he'll just stay. Rooney I think will just sign a new improved contract and he won't be moving either, even if he doesn't sign a new deal I can't see Moyes selling him unless it is to a foreign club and I don't think Rooney wants to relocate, won't happen I think. Büttner will be kept I think because we are lacking depth for the fullback position.
Giggs and Ferdinand will retire I think, both aren't really necessary anymore and they aren't good enough anymore either.
Vidic and Evra might decide not to renew their contract, but I think both will get an offer and there is the possibility they'll stay for a year longer, but both are still attracting some serious interest from good clubs so they might decide to take a new challenge in the ending phase of their career.
Anderson is at fiorentina for the long term, he said it himself he doesn't intend on coming back, so I think the deal will be made permanent in the summer or they will extend his loan or something. Definitely won't be coming back.
Hernandez, Kagawa and Nani aren't featuring and they all still hold value, so I expect that there will be some teams in for them and I think they are the most likely outgoing transfers we will make in the summer as we can still get some cash for them.
Alot of people don't seem to believe United will go on to spend big time this summer. Truth is we need it more than ever and a large portion of these deals should already have been made in the summer or even previous transfer windows. Moyes will be more desperate to get it right this time, because if he messes up like this season his job might really be in the balance. He knows he doesn't just need to get us back in the CL, he knows he need to get us back to a title winning side. I'am expecting atleast 5 or 6 players to come in for the first team and perhaps even a couple more as back ups. beside it really does look like we're going to lose about 7-8 players in the summer, no way we won't be replacing them.
Expecting to see a new centreback, new leftback, new winger and 2 midfielders, one a playmaker profile and one a more defensive player. Potential achievable players could be: Garay (€15m), Coentrao(€15m), Lucas(€25m), Carvalho(€30m) and Rakitic(€30m). If we get in those players the biggest problem we'll have will be squad depth for the fullback postions, only rafael for RB and Coentrao for LB. With Büttner as a replacement and Smalling and Jones who can play the odd game on RB we could see it through with just those players, but I expect to see us signing a versatile fullback who can play LB as well as RB for squad depth. We could get all these players for around €125m which is a number I can definitely see us spending this summer.
Possible team for next season would be like this:
GK: DDG, Lindegaard, Johnstone
fullbacks: Rafael, Coentrao, Büttner, new versatile fullback, Varela (possibly getting a shot at the first team)
CB: Smalling, Evans, Jones, Garay
CM: Carrick, Fletcher, Carvalho, Fellaini, Rakitic, Cleverley
AM/Wingers: Mata, Lucas, Januzaj, Young, Valencia
Strikers: RVP, Rooney, Welbeck
Nice tidy squad of about 26 players
Possible lign up: 4-2-3-1
------------DDG-----------
Rafael--Jones--Garay--Coentrao
---------Carvalho-------------
-------------Rakitic--------
Lucas----Mata-----Januzaj
----------RVP-------------
With Rooney as primary competitor for the positions of Mata, Rakitic and RVP
So far I have us needing the following signings:
1 top class centre-back
1 top class left back
1 back-up right back
2 top class central-midfielders
and possibly 1 or 2 top class strikers if Rooney and/or Van Persie was to leave.
That's a hell of a shopping list.
1 top class centre-back
1 top class left back
1 back-up right back
2 top class central-midfielders
and possibly 1 or 2 top class strikers if Rooney and/or Van Persie was to leave.
That's a hell of a shopping list.
The worrying thing is that the forced outgoings from our squad will mean Moyes has to hang on to certain players just because of the sheer numbers leaving. Can't say I'll be too pleased to see the likes of Nani and Kagawa leaving in the summer while Valencia and Young stay put.
It's going to be a whirlwind in the summer.
Vidic, Evra, Ferdinand and Giggs will all leave in my opinion.
I''d say go for Benatia to replace Vidic. Promote Michael Keane to 5th choice, so Benatia, Evans, Smalling, Jones, Keane.
I would try and keep Evra for another season but he's been on the verge of that move for a while and I think this season will be the summer he moves on. I would sign one top class LB and a young upcoming with potential ideally... Coentrao? Rodriguez? Shaw?
One or two central midfielders; Gundogan and Carvalho?
(If Rooney or van Persie leave, then I'd go after Reus and play Mata behind the striker.)
Vidic, Evra, Ferdinand and Giggs will all leave in my opinion.
I''d say go for Benatia to replace Vidic. Promote Michael Keane to 5th choice, so Benatia, Evans, Smalling, Jones, Keane.
I would try and keep Evra for another season but he's been on the verge of that move for a while and I think this season will be the summer he moves on. I would sign one top class LB and a young upcoming with potential ideally... Coentrao? Rodriguez? Shaw?
One or two central midfielders; Gundogan and Carvalho?
(If Rooney or van Persie leave, then I'd go after Reus and play Mata behind the striker.)
This summer is going to be hard to handle. That fax machine is going to need so much ink.
Two central midfielders, a left back and centre back are all a necessity now. And obviously further business will be defined by out-goings.
It's crazy to suggest this, as we have never participated in a mass overhaul of the squad in one window, but we really could be looking at six or seven new signings this Summer.
It's crazy to suggest this, as we have never participated in a mass overhaul of the squad in one window, but we really could be looking at six or seven new signings this Summer.
That may require spending close to City's manner. Glazers and Woodward are gonna have to pull something absolutely new on the transfer market.
It's going to cost a fortune to do it right:
£25m - 1 top class centre-back
£20m - 1 top class left back
£5m - 1 back-up right back
£50m - 2 top class central-midfielders
Looks like around £100m in spending to me, and even then I doubt we'll be able to get a real top class centre-back or central midfielder for those prices. Doesn't seem likely that we'd spend that much given our recent history.
--------------------DDG--------------------
--Rafael--Jones--Smalling--Sandro--
------------Matuidi---Rakitic------------
-----Lucas------Rooney------Mata-----
--------------------RVP--------------------
- Blaise Matuidi (contract expires in the summer)
- Ivan Rakitic
- Lucas Moura
- Alex Sandro
- Eliaquim Mangala
That's what I'd do. Reus/Kroos would be fantastic, but I can't see how we could buy in Reus and keep Mata/Januzaj happy. We do however need someone to play on the right, Lucas is our man. That's if we can take him off PSG's hands, which would be extremely difficult, if not Lucas, then we could go for the more expensive but attainable route in Draxler, who has played on the right a fair few times. The defence is a difficult one, I think we should stick with our youngsters and bring in Mangala and Sandro from Porto as they're both top, top talents. Shaw is probably now unachievable.
--Rafael--Jones--Smalling--Sandro--
------------Matuidi---Rakitic------------
-----Lucas------Rooney------Mata-----
--------------------RVP--------------------
- Blaise Matuidi (contract expires in the summer)
- Ivan Rakitic
- Lucas Moura
- Alex Sandro
- Eliaquim Mangala
That's what I'd do. Reus/Kroos would be fantastic, but I can't see how we could buy in Reus and keep Mata/Januzaj happy. We do however need someone to play on the right, Lucas is our man. That's if we can take him off PSG's hands, which would be extremely difficult, if not Lucas, then we could go for the more expensive but attainable route in Draxler, who has played on the right a fair few times. The defence is a difficult one, I think we should stick with our youngsters and bring in Mangala and Sandro from Porto as they're both top, top talents. Shaw is probably now unachievable.
I think £100m is a little low. £50m for 2 top class central midfielders, more likely closer to £50m each. I figure we need to spend about £150m.
Why can I see us not addressing CM again, purely because we have numbers there and with the players leaving, it forces us to buy in other areas. It is a slightly real possibility, particularly as I can’t see us spending the money being talked about in this thread all in one go. Guess it really depends on how much cash the glazers are willing to spend in one window.
No chance will it be that much. Probably around 40m for one and 30m for the other, 20m for a left back, and another 15m on another player. Probably at most 120m spent, and then from the sales of nani, Hernandez and Kagawa we could get in up to 60 mil if we get 20m each for them, but more likely around 45m, then also freeing up a shit load from wages, and potentially Rooney who we could get maybe 30m for with 1 year left on his contract.