Ten Classic Roy Keane Rants -

shaydun

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Every United fan was gunning for Essien as a replacement for Keane. Every United fan's dream replacement for Keane was Gerrard. Why the change in stance now?
It wasn't every fan.

Even if they were, that does not mean that they are as good as Keane was.

That's some leap of logic.

Apparently, those who have seen Duncan Edwards play compare him to Gerrard than Keane. That too should count for something in terms of talent pissing.
I've never seen Duncan Edwards play. He is irrelevant to any comparison between Keane, Gerrard and Essien.
What I infer from your opinions is that Keane was a leader while the other two aren't?
Your inference is mistaken. Never said anything about the other two not being leaders.
Gerrard has inspired an inferior Liverpool to some miraculous achievements, and when it going got tough, stuck around with his team. Essien has been an unsung leader for Chelsea, but not as what Keane was. That's largely due to Lampard being favoured over him.
See above. You're countering a point I didn't make.
Also, while I myself feel Keane was a better player than the two, he certainly wasn't that good.
Wasn't what good?

He was significantly better than either of the two you mentioned.

Whoever said 'pisses all over them' is being a tad inflammatory, but really, they're not that far out.

He was quite a bit ahead of both.
 

Mickey

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not in mine, certainly
and duncan edwards compared to gerrard? never in a million years
How old are you? How many times did you see duncan edwards play?

Im not saying he was a bad/average/good/amazing player, fact is, none of us really know how good he was, or how good he could and would have been. To say you'd have duncan edwards over gerrard is a bit silly, considering youve probably never seen him play for 90 minutes.

I dont want it to seem like im picking on you, its something ive noticed a lot. People saying edwards was some sort of world beater, despite them never seeing him play. That said, im not saying he wasnt a world beater anyway.
 

EricaNo7

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How old are you? How many times did you see duncan edwards play?

Im not saying he was a bad/average/good/amazing player, fact is, none of us really know how good he was, or how good he could and would have been. To say you'd have duncan edwards over gerrard is a bit silly, considering youve probably never seen him play for 90 minutes.

I dont want it to seem like im picking on you, its something ive noticed a lot. People saying edwards was some sort of world beater, despite them never seeing him play. That said, im not saying he wasnt a world beater anyway.
never you mind how old i am :nono:

however i'm old enough to have a father who despite not being a united fan, saw duncan edwards play - he told me that he was the greatest player he'd ever seen, and that he could play anywhere!
he also said if he'd lived, he would have undoubtedly been england's greatest player ever.
 

Salvation

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not in mine, certainly
and duncan edwards compared to gerrard? never in a million years
Read it somewhere here: https://www.redcafe.net/f15/duncan-edwards-41867/

You're confusing hype with performance.
:confused: Where do you get that from?


It wasn't every fan.

Even if they were, that does not mean that they are as good as Keane was.

That's some leap of logic.



I've never seen Duncan Edwards play. He is irrelevant to any comparison between Keane, Gerrard and Essien.


Your inference is mistaken. Never said anything about the other two not being leaders.


See above. You're countering a point I didn't make.


Wasn't what good?

He was significantly better than either of the two you mentioned.

Whoever said 'pisses all over them' is being a tad inflammatory, but really, they're not that far out.

He was quite a bit ahead of both.
If Gerrard and Essien were that bad (i.e. pisses over them) in comparison to Keane then surely they weren't good enough to replace him?
 

shaydun

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If Gerrard and Essien were that bad (i.e. pisses over them) in comparison to Keane then surely they weren't good enough to replace him?
I don't think anyone claims that Gerrard and Essien are that bad that they wouldn't have been able to play with Utd.

It's like replacing Cantona with Sheringham, Eto'o with Ibrahimovic, even Zidane with Nedved.

You're still getting a top-quality player as a replacement, they're just missing the extra quality that their predecessors brought to the table.
 

EricaNo7

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I don't think anyone claims that Gerrard and Essien are that bad.

It's like replacing Cantona with Sheringham, Eto'o with Ibrahimovic, even Zidane with Nedved.

You're still getting a top-quality player as a replacement, they're just missing the [I]extra[/I] quality that their predecessors brought to the table.
exactly it, shaydun
 

Salvation

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I don't think anyone claims that Gerrard and Essien are that bad that they wouldn't have been able to play with Utd.

It's like replacing Cantona with Sheringham, Eto'o with Ibrahimovic, even Zidane with Nedved.

You're still getting a top-quality player as a replacement, they're just missing the extra quality that their predecessors brought to the table.
Yeah, I'd go with that. By many's reckoning in here, one gets the impression of a land and sky difference in talents, which was my only bone of contention.
 

shaydun

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Yeah, I'd go with that. By many's reckoning in here, one gets the impression of a land and sky difference in talents, which was my only bone of contention.
Well, to be fair, they're still not as bad as the people slating a club legend left, right and centre.

A few people are shining through as complete spazzers on this thread.

edit: Got you to agree to agree with me;)
 

Mick1991

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Oi all those hating on Keane had better watch it, the Manchester Mafia haven't disbanded yet................




:D
 

WR

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The many people accusing Keano of being a cnut as a human being is too far fetched. On the field his behavior may be a bit twatish, but that doesn't account to his off field behaviour in general. What Rooney is reported to have done is worse than anything Keane has done off the field.
He was a very passionate player and rubbed the majority up the wrong way. At times I admired his no shit approach, he was certainly different.
 

Salvation

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Well, to be fair, they're still not as bad as the people slating a club legend left, right and centre.

A few people are shining through as complete spazzers on this thread.

edit: Got you to agree to agree with me;)
:)

Dunno if it makes me a complete spazzer in your view but I entirely understand where those slating Keane are coming from. No one dismisses his achievements on the pitch. Fans who decree legendary statuses account not just on-field, but off field behaviour as well (which include contractual negotiations, feelings on United during and after their stints). Keane lags on that off-field front.

Nothing wrong with that, owing to his brutal honesty and I wouldn't have Keane any other way, personally speaking.

I imagine if he were posting at the Caf, he'd be slagged off left, right and center.
 

Eyepopper

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How old are you? How many times did you see duncan edwards play?

Im not saying he was a bad/average/good/amazing player, fact is, none of us really know how good he was, or how good he could and would have been. To say you'd have duncan edwards over gerrard is a bit silly, considering youve probably never seen him play for 90 minutes.

I dont want it to seem like im picking on you, its something ive noticed a lot. People saying edwards was some sort of world beater, despite them never seeing him play. That said, im not saying he wasnt a world beater anyway.
It was Salvation who brought Edwards into it and while actually seeing him through his career would obviously have been the best way to judge you can still look at the documentary evidence to get some feel for the sort of player he was.

Made his England debut at 17. From what I've seen and read about him he looked like a perfect mix of Scholes, and Keane with added defensive capabilities.

Tommy Docherty said he had more skill than Pele and Maradona.

Busby considered him the most complete footballer in the world.

'Bryan Robson but twice as powerful', 'the only player that ever made me feel inferior' - Sir Bobby Charlton

So even based on that while Gerrard is a quality player who has it in him to do great things I think a comparison with Edwards is being slightly generous.

As for the Gerrard/Keane comparison, I dont think anyone that have seen both play their entire careers would claim Gerrard is as good never mind better than Keane was, like I say Gerrard is a great player but he doesn't have all the attributes Keane had, not in terms of passing or ability to motivate players. IMO he's also nowhere near as disciplined or positionally aware.

As for Essien, ridiculous comparison really. In the potential stakes Essien is up there and capable of being a fantastic player, but I dont think he's ever truly realised his full potential. Anyone saying he's as good as or better than Keane was quite obviously isn't old enough to remember seeing Keane play.
 

VivaRonaldo7

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I wouldn't of had Keane any other way.

Who would of dragged us to the Champions League final in 99?

He was a great player and frankly the abuse in this thread is bizarre. He did it when it mattered as I have said on the pitch. He was a leader and wanted to win.
 

KM

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Not sure where to put this, but I do think that the abuse Keano gets as a manager is also very undeserved. When he joined Sunderland, they had lost 4 games in a row and were at the bottom of the Championship, he managed to transform their season and ended up winning the Championship.

Granted he spend loads of money at Sunderland, but with that Money Sunderland re-established their Premier League status which was quite important. He was terrible unlucky again for Ipswich last season, as many of their bad results were due to late goals. However, this season he has started well again.

People forget that he has only turned 39 which is still very young for a Manager.
 

Decotron

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Not sure where to put this, but I do think that the abuse Keano gets as a manager is also very undeserved. When he joined Sunderland, they had lost 4 games in a row and were at the bottom of the Championship, he managed to transform their season and ended up winning the Championship.

Granted he spend loads of money at Sunderland, but with that Money Sunderland re-established their Premier League status which was quite important. He was terrible unlucky again for Ipswich last season, as many of their bad results were due to late goals. However, this season he has started well again.

People forget that he has only turned 39 which is still very young for a Manager.
That and the fact they lost 22 first team squad players that summer seemed to go unnoticed by many.

His body language has changed at Ipswich. He seems to have been given the reins completely, that never happened at Sunderland (in his last 12 months there anyway)

Ipswich are a better fit for him imo. An old style club that do things the right way. They give their managers a fair chance and always try to play decent football. The fact they have an established academy and scouting network is also something that Im sure is helping. Id imagine Keane is a bit like Fergie in that regard, all or nothing!
 

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Without Keane, for all their ability, Giggs, Scholes and company may never have reached the heights collectively that they did. It's amazing that you consider being quiet more importantly than the leader than the vocal style of one of the greatest leaders in United history.

So the same thing that made him so brilliant a leader is the reason for him not being a united hero.
I agree with this here. Keane is like the boss in work that got the job done and got the best out of the team but wasnt liked by all.
 

Stick

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Every United fan was gunning for Essien as a replacement for Keane. Every United fan's dream replacement for Keane was Gerrard. Why the change in stance now? Apparently, those who have seen Duncan Edwards play compare him to Gerrard than Keane. That too should count for something in terms of talent pissing.

What I infer from your opinions is that Keane was a leader while the other two aren't? Gerrard has inspired an inferior Liverpool to some miraculous achievements, and when it going got tough, stuck around with his team. Essien has been an unsung leader for Chelsea, but not as what Keane was. That's largely due to Lampard being favoured over him.

Also, while I myself feel Keane was a better player than the two, he certainly wasn't that good.
I think you have a slightly skewed view here. Keane was a leader who in many ways chose to sacrafice some aspects of his game to nullify the opposition and always tried to improve his own side even at the cost of being a hero. If you see the FA cup final against liverpool and the Juve champions league semi both these show his value. Gerard is a great player but he delivers in fits and starts and cant consistently motivate a liverpool side to beat the league minnows. He certainly is a fantastic player but wants to be the man on the end of the ball scoring the goal to inspire where Keane would be happy tracking his man and ensuring a move never started to allow his team to fall behind or playing it simple and pushing more attacking players higher up the pitch or getting width from his fullbacks against tired sides. Essien is a smashing player but I feel injuries have been really unkind to him and he hasnt been able to get a good run because of this.
 

Salvation

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I think you have a slightly skewed view here. Keane was a leader who in many ways chose to sacrafice some aspects of his game to nullify the opposition and always tried to improve his own side even at the cost of being a hero. If you see the FA cup final against liverpool and the Juve champions league semi both these show his value. Gerard is a great player but he delivers in fits and starts and cant consistently motivate a liverpool side to beat the league minnows. He certainly is a fantastic player but wants to be the man on the end of the ball scoring the goal to inspire where Keane would be happy tracking his man and ensuring a move never started to allow his team to fall behind or playing it simple and pushing more attacking players higher up the pitch or getting width from his fullbacks against tired sides. Essien is a smashing player but I feel injuries have been really unkind to him and he hasnt been able to get a good run because of this.
Its naive to expect Gerrard to elevate Liverpool to the levels Keane did with United, because Gerrard companioned average talent at Liverpool, especially in attack (he doesn't sacrifice his game like Keane did because he can't afford to). Considering the players he's played alongside and the managers he's worked under, I doubt Keane would do much better.
 

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Its naive to expect Gerrard to elevate Liverpool to the levels Keane did with United, because Gerrard companioned average talent at Liverpool, especially in attack (he doesn't sacrifice his game like Keane did because he can't afford to). Considering the players he's played alongside and the managers he's worked under, I doubt Keane would do much better.
The Liverpool side the year before last were on the brink of a league win and Gerard didnt/couldnt lead them over the line. Keane led a team of relatively young untried lads to the league in 96 I think.
 

CnutOfAllCnuts

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The Liverpool side the year before last were on the brink of a league win and Gerard didnt/couldnt lead them over the line. Keane led a team of relatively young untried lads to the league in 96 I think.
Cantona and Schmeichel did.

Keano, however, is one of United's best ever players.
 

Brwned

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Ah, the age thing again. How often do you older posters need to use this one? I've been watching United since around 1996 so unless Keane was a very angry and fairly limited holding player 3 years into his career with us, then I'm afraid you're once more spouting a load of old rubbish.
To be fair, I think this thread highlights some of the problems that come up with people of our age talking about things in the 90's and earlier. We're generally basing things off second-hand information, and much of that naturally doesn't tell the whole story. Even if it's not second-hand information, it's first-hand information at a time when you couldn't properly process it, when you couldn't take it all in, so again it doesn't tell the whole story.

If it's second-hand information it's usually only the 'shocking, disgraceful' stuff that is alluded to, and then sensationalised, and so that portrays Keane in a different way to how you would have viewed him if you were 10 years older, I think. As for the first-hand information, it's just dependent on whatever sticks, whatever you take in - generally that'll be the big story in it without the necessary background information, because you just don't care enough about that at that age, and it'll mirror how the media made it seem in some ways.

Maybe it'll be Rooney in a decade or so dividing opinions in the same way? Continuously reckless on the pitch as a young lad, caught spitting at the a press-person, repeatedly cheating on his wife, granny-shagger, the whole 'that's what you call support' thing etc...he could easily be portrayed as a cnut, but do you think you'd be talking about him as a cnut when he's finished his career? I can't. He represents so much of what we're brought up to love about the game.

This is directly not aimed at you, is slightly aimed at Boss(not to be a cnut), but it's a general point. I just don't see the point of having such a strong opinion about something you can't fully understand or appreciate.
 

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Cantona and Schmeichel did.

Keano, however, is one of United's best ever players.
Ah yeah Cantona was a massive influence on united back then as was Schmeichel. Actually I dont think Schmeichel and keane got on at all and some players really disliked the great dane too.
 

EricaNo7

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I wouldn't of had Keane any other way.

Who would of dragged us to the Champions League final in 99?

He was a great player and frankly the abuse in this thread is bizarre. He did it when it mattered as I have said on the pitch. He was a leader and wanted to win.
good post,viva.


do you think fergie cared what sort of person he was when he made him captain?
 

amolbhatia50k

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good post,viva.


do you think fergie cared what sort of person he was when he made him captain?
Fergie probably loved the kind of person he was, because while some people who want to cuddle with players may not find him a viable option, as a leader he was perfect.
 

Sniggleton

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uhm, ok, why bump this thread? keane's long gone and not as though he's swooning united in the papers looking to be fergie's follow-on, so why the love-in? just boredom?
 

Randall Flagg

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uhm, ok, why bump this thread? keane's long gone and not as though he's swooning united in the papers looking to be fergie's follow-on, so why the love-in? just boredom?
Because he is a legend and one of our best ever players.

Plus he is about 10 times more interesting than vast majority of current or ex players
 

amolbhatia50k

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uhm, ok, why bump this thread? keane's long gone and not as though he's swooning united in the papers looking to be fergie's follow-on, so why the love-in? just boredom?
Yes, we should only appreciate ex players who are kissing the clubs ass publicly dying to be Fergie's successor. Really smart.

Btw, there's a clip that's been posted in case you haven't noticed or bothered to.
 

holdsteady

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I can only imagine how scary Roy would have been if your phone went off in the dressing room.
 

Ole240599

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Keane was a great football player, but he is not a 'hard man'. I respect him highly but he is just a big mouth and I honestly think Shearer and Viera would have knocked the shite outta him, hence he talked the talk but when it came down to crunch time he did nothing about it. Also theres nothing to be proud of breaking a mans leg, its a cowardly act and I lost respect for him that day.
No one will ever now if he is/was a hard man. What is obvious is that he had balls to burn and it was that "courage" that intimadated other players? What a player and what a leader!!
 

The Azzurri

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1) Throughout the 2000s, Keane maintained a healthy rivalry with Arsenal captain Patrick Vieira. The most notable incident between the two took place at Highbury in 2005 at the height of an extreme period of bad blood between United and Arsenal. Vieira was seen confronting United defender Gary Neville in the tunnel before the game over his fouling of José Antonio Reyes in the previous encounter between the two sides,[39] prompting Keane to verbally confront the Arsenal captain.[35] The incident was broadcast live on Sky Sports, with Keane clearly heard telling match referee Graham Poll to "Tell him [Vieira] to shut his fecking mouth!" After the game, which United won 4–2, Keane controversially criticised Vieira's decision to play internationally for France instead of his birthplace of Senegal. However, Vieira later suggested that having walked out on his National team in the World Cup finals Keane was not in a good position to comment on such matters.[40] Referee Poll later revealed that he should have sent off both players before the match had begun, though was under pressure not to do so.[39]
 
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Bar you, of course. You probably thought of some exotic sounding name unheard and overlooked eventually.
Actually names have no bearing on who I thought had the game to replace Keane.
Neither of those 2 in my book had that Keane quality. Neither were they good enough positionally.

Back then I thought it was an Italian kid who had it. He is a man now but I still think the same of him.

Anyway SAF was never looking to bring in a Keane. So all this debate is irrelevant.

Also for the record SAf bought the 2 men I wanted us to sign to help us replace the loss of Keane. Carrick and Hargreaves.