McVeigh?
The bad (typically gun related) things happening in America thread
- Thread starter calodo2003
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Nope. Making a single exception is to admit that the government has a right to take the life of its citizens. The government should not have this right, and it is shameful we have given it to them.
Respekt.
I'm pragmatic too, and think convicts should be given an option to choose between life without parole or a bullet to the head, but the federal government and state governments have forfeited any moral right to conduct the death penalty given numerous miscarriages of justice. Given a perfect government that wouldn't make any mistakes, sure, Old Yeller him.
I never have been a fan of the death penalty. I understand the sentiment. I don't know if I would feel the same if the victim was somebody that I love so don't think I should have the choice in that instance.
I've watched a lot of trials (although admittedly I didn't watch much of this one since it was so long) over the last couple of years and I'll tell you what, that judge was the coldest towards the jury at the end that I've seen.
Face like thunder reading the verdict and barely a word of thanks.
Face like thunder reading the verdict and barely a word of thanks.
Resting bitch face.
I already made a point before on the topic: I believe in the death penalty for the very few unredeemable cases out there (serial killers, terrorists and mass shooters). Ever since I've read about Japan's 9 criteria for eligibility to the death penalty (which is rarely dished, still), I strongly believe that we can follow a very rational lead there. And if the perpetrator somehow managed to fail the balance of the 9 criteria, then there is nothing else to say.
Economically speaking, I say it's far more expensive to feed a remorseless criminal for a lifetime than buying rope and lumber to get rid of that same criminal. Anyway, feck those 3 jurors in the Parkland shooter case whoever they are.
Economically speaking, I say it's far more expensive to feed a remorseless criminal for a lifetime than buying rope and lumber to get rid of that same criminal. Anyway, feck those 3 jurors in the Parkland shooter case whoever they are.
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Strongly disagree, those three are heroes. The death penalty is an abomination, not just morally, but legally. Why should we ever give government authority to take the life of a citizen? How many hundreds of innocent people have been murdered over the years in the name of vengeance, because execution is not justice, at least not in a civilized society.
Confused somewhat as to how it’s the ‘government’s authority’ when it would be the jury’s decision & the government apparatus carries it out.
At the most basic level it is their authority as the laws that permit any punishment are made, and enforced, by the government.
Secondarily, the jury can only recommend the death penalty (as far as I know) if the state (or feds) recommends or puts it in as an option.
Finally, sentencing is ultimately up to the judge. He or she, can set aside the juries recommendation.
So essentially all three branches play a role.
Ironically many who thinking killing someone for killing someone would (rightly) consider it barbaric to chop someone's hand off for theft or if the analogous punishment for rape was the norm (now that I think of it they might be for that one).
Many confuse justice with revenge.
This is why, as cold as it may sound, the victims of crime and/or their families should have no say in the sentencing of a convicted criminal. I sure as hell know I would want blood if someone killed my dog, let alone my wife or family members. If we want to be a civilized society that believes in justice and the rule of law we must uphold those principles impartially. If we want to be a society of vengeance and barbarism that is a choice we can make, but we should at least be honest about it.
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I totally agree - there is zero reason that the victims of crime or their families should be rational about such things. Revenge is a personal concept and you have to judge if you want to take that action and if so are you prepared to suffer the legal consequences if you get caught. Society should be above that.
Agreed nobody has the right to kill anyone even if they have done despicable things. I've always wondered if the people involved in sentencing a person to death feel any remorse after. That's gotta cause some emotional trauma down the line.
I think most people could have slept comfortably knowing that they decided Nikolas Cruise deserved the death penalty.
Premeditated, and boasted about doing it prior.
17 people killed and 17, injured many of them children as young as 14
He shot people on the floor to make sure they are dead
He showed no remorse by pretending to have a voice in his head that told him to do it.
We can't presume that the jury were ethically opposed, because they could have accepted the mental illness mitigation, but if it was ethical then they aren't heroes. They are cnuts for putting the victims' families through that ordeal while knowing that they will not do their duty.
Doing what he did was proof enough that he is mentally ill.
Whether or not that should protect him from certain consequences is another thing but he's obviously a nut job.
Whether or not that should protect him from certain consequences is another thing but he's obviously a nut job.
Unfortunately, I think you are right, I do believe most Americans would have slept comfortably had he been sentenced to death. But then again we are a country obsessed with death and violence. A country that has no "respect" for life, unless it is unborn. Killing is wrong, whether it is murder in the streets or a needle in the arm in a prison basement. The only reason for execution is vengeance. There is no Justice to be found in killing, at least not in a civilized society. Then again, I think calling our society civilized may be a bridge to far. We are hateful, vengeful, spiteful, and bigoted people. It says a lot that the cnuts in your mind are the jurors who refused to sanction a state sponsored execution and not the government that sought it.
Hope you and yours were not nearby for this.
Saw this on the local ABC News site (bolding mine):
NY Times is saying it was a white male juvenile as well, so I am guessing that is the case.
Just madness, complete madness.
Thanks. Fortunately I'm on the other side of the city from this. It's horrible. I assumed it was some crazy white kid based on the area and initial reports.
Jesus christ, what a macabre story.
Glad to hear, we are the same (waaaaayyyyy over in Pittsboro). My knowledge of the Triangle Park area is not good enough yet to know where anything other than Costco and RDU are.
Just saw the Washington Post report that the shooter from Raleigh is 15 years old.
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There is a non-zero chance this murderer bought his gun and/or ammo from the GOP candidate, and likely winner, for US Senate Tedd Budd. Dude owns a gun shop.
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He keeps asking the witnesses if they have ever met the plaintiff!
He's gone full sovereign citizen and the judge has been incredibly patient with him.
The most American story I can imagine. Two men shoot eachother’s daughter in a road rage incident:
https://nypost.com/2022/10/13/florida-dads-on-bodycam-footage-after-shooting-each-others-daughters/
https://nypost.com/2022/10/13/florida-dads-on-bodycam-footage-after-shooting-each-others-daughters/
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So......not sure what to make of this. I don't like the framing of this as it almost sounds like "Dude's aren't getting any so they have no choice but to shoot up their schools/neighborhoods". Besides, if there was a correlation between not having sex and shooting up shit wouldn't most shooters be married men?
Also you'd see more shootings in other countries too. Unless young American men feel more entitled to sex than young men from other countries? And maybe coupled with poor mental health counseling?So......not sure what to make of this. I don't like the framing of this as it almost sounds like "Dude's aren't getting any so they have no choice but to shoot up their schools/neighborhoods". Besides, if there was a correlation between not having sex and shooting up shit wouldn't most shooters be married men?
It's the usual trope from anti-gunners who have a tendency to suggest that having a gun (or guns) is some form of compensatory mechanism for a variety of masculine deficiencies.So......not sure what to make of this. I don't like the framing of this as it almost sounds like "Dude's aren't getting any so they have no choice but to shoot up their schools/neighborhoods". Besides, if there was a correlation between not having sex and shooting up shit wouldn't most shooters be married men?
Trope or truth?
Can’t remember if I posted this or not. Multi-use now…
https://www.rawstory.com/macabre-te...de-shooting-massacre-after-abbott-signed-law/
https://www.rawstory.com/macabre-te...de-shooting-massacre-after-abbott-signed-law/
Hehehe I mean it may be true some of the time but certainly not all of the time. It's a tactic that would be rightly called out as inappropriate in other settings.Trope or truth?