The beginning of the end... (the original board vetoed Mourinho's transfer wish list thread)

[tomaldinho1]

To be fair, he also doesn't make tackles, interceptions and win duels. Interestingly, his partner and replacement do all of that.

Either he is that good that strikers get scared from him and attack only his partner, or he is not as good as we think.

This is sarcastic right? Best PL CB when fit, can literally do everything.

 

[Revan]

This is sarcastic right? Best PL CB when fit, can literally do everything.

Look at his stats man. He makes considerably less tackles, interception, and wins duels than the other two Spurs CBs.

 

[RedorDead21]

Jesus. You trust ex-sport scientist instead of successful CEO of the club to make decisions about financial decisions in the club?

You think we could not afford to spend 100m on more recruits? You think being out spent by newly promoted teams is a positive because it shows sensibilities and a nod towards the accounts? Did you have this opinion at the start of the transfer window and share it on here or has something happened to make you think this?

 

[tomaldinho1]

Look at his stats man. He makes considerably less tackles, interception, and wins duels than the other two Spurs CBs.

This kind of goes back to my point about not just thinking a good defender makes loads of tackles...

Who is a better CB, Rio or Distin? Both made a similar amount of PL appearances, yet Distin has over 50% more tackles, triple the amount of headers won, 50% more duels won.... I think you get my point

 

[Revan]

You think we could not afford to spend 100m on more recruits? You think being out spent by newly promoted teams is a positive because it shows sensibilities and a nod towards the accounts? Did you have this opinion at the start of the transfer window and share it on here or has something happened to make you think this?

Well, our profits after interest payments and dividends were circa 150m, from which we had to pay half of it on fees for players from previous years. Then the rest we spent on the two signings, leaving us an estimated of 15m (maybe a bit more) and the fee we got from Blind. We could have spent a bit more, but not an another 100m without either selling players or diminishing our ability to spend on next season(s) as in spend now, but know that we have to spend less in the next summer. You usually do that if you can get some top players which give you a significant improvement, not for the likes of Willian and Maguire.

Looking at one transfer window is totally irrelevant. If you look over a period of longer time (let's say 5 years) we have spent more than any team in the world bar City.

This kind of goes back to my point about not just thinking a good defender makes loads of tackles...

Who is a better CB, Rio or Distin? Both made a similar amount of PL appearances, yet Distin has over 50% more tackles, triple the amount of headers won, 50% more duels won.... I think you get my point

It isn't only tackles though. It is also interceptions which is a stat which players with good ability to read the game have. Also comparing Rio to Distin is stupid cause they played in two different teams with Distin having to do much more defending (Everton, City and Portsmouth did much more defending than United), while I am comparing Alder with Vertonghen and Sanchez, who play on the same team and whose one of them (at times two) play with him.

 

[RedorDead21]

Well, our profits after interest payments and dividends were circa 150m, from which we had to pay half of it on fees for players from previous years. Then the rest we spent on the two signings, leaving us an estimated of 15m (maybe a bit more) and the fee we got from Blind. We could have spent a bit more, but not an another 100m without either selling players or diminishing our ability to spend on next season(s) as in spend now, but know that we have to spend less in the next summer. You usually do that if you can get some top players which give you a significant improvement, not for the likes of Willian and Maguire.

Looking at one transfer window is totally irrelevant. If you look over a period of longer time (let's say 5 years) we have spent more than any team in the world bar City.

It isn't only tackles though. It is also interceptions which is a stat which players with good ability to read the game have. Also comparing Rio to Distin is stupid cause they played in two different teams with Distin having to do much more defending (Everton, City and Portsmouth did much more defending than United), while I am comparing Alder with Vertonghen and Sanchez, who play on the same team and whose one of them (at times two) play with him.

I think we would have let a CB go if we bought one but I get the point. It's ok veto-ing players but the other side of that DoF role he's pretending to play is bringing in a Bale, Ronaldo or someone of the ilk you think would be more of a help than a CB who perhaps adds not too much apart from not getting injured every month. Now I read Modric might be moving as well.....I think he did very poorly no matter how you cut it. Good for the Glazers mind.

 

[Revan]

I think we would have let a CB go if we bought one but I get the point. It's ok veto-ing players but the other side of that DoF role he's pretending to play is bringing in a Bale, Ronaldo or someone of the ilk you think would be more of a help than a CB who perhaps adds not too much apart from not getting injured every month. Now I read Modric might be moving as well.....I think he did very poorly no matter how you cut it. Good for the Glazers mind.

The money stays on the club, unless they decide to get further dividends. Which we will know considering that United is a publicly traded company. So this, 'we didn't spend cause the Glazers want to get money instead of invest it on players' is kind of nonsense (and agenda-driven, like most things regarding them) until things change. If they decide to increase the dividend, then I'll join in protest.

 

[Greck]

Yeah signing Bale was Ed's idea. That's why he said referring to Bale

"If he is on his way out of Real Madrid, well, I'll try to be waiting for him on the other side and try to fight with other coaches that would also like to have him on his team.

Oh wait, that was Jose. Stop making up stuff to use as ammunition

 

[Orange Tree]

Well, I'd be wary of giving Mourinho the full backing after Sanchez. Giving a huge wage to a player with barely any resale value and no apparent improvement on the field to be seen. The signing also marginalized one of the most promising prospect at the club and also a big money signing from the last manager.

The mood surrounding the club hasn't been great either. It feels like we are just waiting for an implosion to happen.

 

[bosnian_red]

It's funny, I dont want Mourinho in charge because of the awful style, but I'm kinda glad its him right now as he'll surely speak out against the board and Woodward and hammer them if shit goes south. The board and Woodward are a shambles, and are obviously making it much harder for Mourinho to actually succeed. Saying that, Mourinho should be doing better anyway, but the point about our board being trash remains. Basically I wouldn't expect all our problems to be solved once Mourinho leaves, but at least we would hopefully be exciting to watch (or moreso then now).

 

[simonhch]

It's funny, I dont want Mourinho in charge because of the awful style, but I'm kinda glad its him right now as he'll surely speak out against the board and Woodward and hammer them if shit goes south. The board and Woodward are a shambles, and are obviously making it much harder for Mourinho to actually succeed. Saying that, Mourinho should be doing better anyway, but the point about our board being trash remains. Basically I wouldn't expect all our problems to be solved once Mourinho leaves, but at least we would hopefully be exciting to watch (or moreso then now).

I honestly don’t really follow this line of thought. The club fecked up that first summer of Woodward in charge, but I really can’t argue with much they’ve done since. The biggest gripe I have with them is the lack of long term footballing vision. An issue they are seemingly correcting with the first DoF in our history.

 

[tomaldinho1]

It isn't only tackles though. It is also interceptions which is a stat which players with good ability to read the game have. Also comparing Rio to Distin is stupid cause they played in two different teams with Distin having to do much more defending (Everton, City and Portsmouth did much more defending than United), while I am comparing Alder with Vertonghen and Sanchez, who play on the same team and whose one of them (at times two) play with him.

Ok well think of how Rio and Vidic used to work as a pair - clealry very different players, one a much more combative defender (Vidic) who would usually be man marking players whereas Rio sat off. Does that make Rio a worse defender?

Anyway, I'm surprised I'm having to try and prove Toby is a top defender, I thought that was a pretty widely held view. IMO best in PL, surely he's at least top 5 in yours?

 

[Revan]

Ok well think of how Rio and Vidic used to work as a pair - clealry very different players, one a much more combative defender (Vidic) who would usually be man marking players whereas Rio sat off. Does that make Rio a worse defender?

Anyway, I'm surprised I'm having to try and prove Toby is a top defender, I thought that was a pretty widely held view. IMO best in PL, surely he's at least top 5 in yours?

Don't get me wrong, I rate Toby a lot and thought that he was the best in the league in 16/17. However, stats disagree a lot, and I like stats. It makes me believe that people are a bit biased cause of his fantastic passing and rate him a bit more than they should.

Of course, his stats might also be a tactical choice. He is slower than Spurs other CBs, so Poch might instruct them to do the combating, while he leads the defense from behind and occupies space. No idea but I was extremely surprised when I saw his defending stats.

 

[stevoc]

Think there's a reason why we didn't go with a more experienced CB last Summer. Maybe Jose still thought Smalling or Jones might come good, maybe we didn't have enough funds to address all issues in the team - we needed a striker more than a CB. Maybe the experienced options weren't available last summer. We got Bailly who is very good but still young and Lindelof wasn't brought as a first teamer, but as a rotational option IMO.

Milan played 2 CL finals 10 years ago with a team that was average age 30 or more.

The times are different and top players age better IMO. For what it was 29 years before now you could easily be on the top of your game at 32-33. Just look at Real and Barca's teams.

This year Real won the CL with not a single player below 25 in the final. 6 of the players were 30 or more.

Jose is a manager who if you need to win things on short manner you'd need experienced players that are on the peak of their game or have the experience at the highest level. It isn't really strange either. Why would you hire a manager with great credentials and then veto more than half of the players on his wish list?

You either sack him or just try to get the players he wants. At the end you do neither.

How did Milan's rebuild and attempt to sustain success go after that team broke up though?

Real's side is very experienced also no doubt, and if you're winning multiple champions league titles in a row i could see the argument for keeping that group together which is basically what Real have done. I think something like 8-9 of the same players started all 3 finals. Thats something entirely different than going out of your way to assemble a group of players that are all approaching 30. To add to a team that already has a few players on the older side and hasn't had that much success in recent years.

If you look at the signings that we made since Fergie stepped down it's more likely to lose more money in the long run buying the dross that "fit the age profile" like Darmian, Depay, Shaw, Herrera, Rojo, Fellaini and all the other crap that we can't even move, evidenced this season with Darmian and Rojo.

Bar Fellaini they are all LVG signings, their age wasn't the problem. The fact most of them are not very good players is. If anything that list shows why you shouldn't give a manager too much power and blindly sign every player they want. The board backed every signing Van Gaal wanted, they also let him ship out 25+ Players in just over 12 months which was reckless. Thats largely why the squad is in the current state it is.

Really speechless how the board handled the situation. We never had such charades under Gill.

It would have been kept private and/or Ferguson would toe the company line of ''no value''. But i'm sure there were occasions where Ferguson wanted a player and Gill and the club couldn't deliver them or deemed it not good business to attempt to. Just as it happened under Kenyon and Edwards previously. Thats football these things happen at all clubs to almost all managers.

 

[slir32]

The board knew what they got when they hired Jose. Now if the board where not happy with this summers targets why didn't they talk to Jose about it early on because we know how Jose works they had that list months ago. If it was the case that Jose wanted only those players and it was not negotiable then sack him.

 

[steffyr2]

The board knew what they got when they hired Jose. Now if the board where not happy with this summers targets why didn't they talk to Jose about it early on because we know how Jose works they had that list months ago. If it was the case that Jose wanted only those players and it was not negotiable then sack him.

Why would you sack him? Why wouldn't you just buy the players he wanted?

 

[slir32]

Why would you sack him? Why wouldn't you just buy the players he wanted?

Ask the board why they won't buy 30 years old not me.

 

[Murray3007]

The one keeping Toby out of the team.

lol yeah because he wont sign a new contract, nothing to do with ability.

 

[Bestietom]

I agree with the clubs new policy of wanting to bring in younger players. It is very hard to retain the fitness level demanded for a top footballer, after the age of 33, in some cases even younger.

The game has got faster and faster each year, and if you are not up to the fitness level demanded, you will be caught out. Experience is good, but you must also have a fitness level to compete. Gone are the the days that smoking and drinking ( most nights) are part of a top footballers life.You really have to look after yourself,even down to what you eat.

Fergie wrote in his book how he always checked up on the lifestyle of a player before he bought him. Did he smoke does he have a drink and how often etc. Well the fitness level has gone up higher since Fergies time here, and players at top clubs don't last much longer after the age of 32/33 unless they have really looked after themselves and had no injuries in their career.

It is ridiculous what clubs are looking for players at the age of 30 and over now, and after getting their best years from them. Paying out 75million for a player of 30 years old is madness. Quick fixes don't always work and most times you are buying players who are prone to injury.

We have some monies to spend in January, probable to an advantage now, over other clubs. We have 5 months to find the players we want and should know if they want to come to us. This all should be done and dusted and the player ready to come in, instead of chasing dead horses.

 

[goin4glory]

lol yeah because he wont sign a new contract, nothing to do with ability.

If it solely down to money then Spurs would just pay Toby what he's being offered at other clubs or accept the bids for him. They can choose to do neither because they have Sanchez.

 

[VanGaalyTime]

I agree with the clubs new policy of wanting to bring in younger players. It is very hard to retain the fitness level demanded for a top footballer, after the age of 33, in some cases even younger.

The game has got faster and faster each year, and if you are not up to the fitness level demanded, you will be caught out. Experience is good, but you must also have a fitness level to compete. Gone are the the days that smoking and drinking ( most nights) are part of a top footballers life.You really have to look after yourself,even down to what you eat.

Fergie wrote in his book how he always checked up on the lifestyle of a player before he bought him. Did he smoke does he have a drink and how often etc. Well the fitness level has gone up higher since Fergies time here, and players at top clubs don't last much longer after the age of 32/33 unless they have really looked after themselves and had no injuries in their career.

It is ridiculous what clubs are looking for players at the age of 30 and over now, and after getting their best years from them. Paying out 75million for a player of 30 years old is madness. Quick fixes don't always work and most times you are buying players who are prone to injury.

We have some monies to spend in January, probable to an advantage now, over other clubs. We have 5 months to find the players we want and should know if they want to come to us. This all should be done and dusted and the player ready to come in, instead of chasing dead horses.

We had all last season to find the players we want for the summer transfer window. I think the money simply wasn't available. Right now, the club (board) is happy to finish in the top four and collect TV money while not investing in the team. I don't see what's going to change in the next few months, unless Mou leaves and we sell Pogba to raise funds. It looks like we'll be well out of the title race by January and so any signings we do make will also be with next season in mind.

 

[#07]

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An interesting take on the current situation.

 

[Murray3007]

If it solely down to money then Spurs would just pay Toby what he's being offered at other clubs or accept the bids for him. They can choose to do neither because they have Sanchez.

no spurs wont pay what other clubs pay coz there chairman is too greedy, or they don't have the funds, Sanchez wouldn't even be a 1st team starter here. watch the goal the other day for Newcastle, hes at fault for a lot of goals last season as well because of poor positioning. he might well end up a top player but right now to say hes better then Toby is laughable or to say he's in the top 5 defenders in the league is even worse, what they spend on him last summer 40/45m something around that mark ?

 

[goin4glory]

no spurs wont pay what other clubs pay coz there chairman is too greedy, or they don't have the funds, Sanchez wouldn't even be a 1st team starter here. watch the goal the other day for Newcastle, hes at fault for a lot of goals last season as well because of poor positioning. he might well end up a top player but right now to say hes better then Toby is laughable or to say he's in the top 5 defenders in the league is even worse, what they spend on him last summer 40/45m something around that mark ?

If the Spurs chairman won't pay players what they're worth then they can simply not sign new deals and move to clubs who will. Sanchez gives spurs some leverage vs Toby because they have a ready made replacement and therefore don't need to pay him top market wages. With someone like Kane, spurs do not have any sort of replacement nor could they afford one so in the end they break their own wage structure to keep him. If Spurs didn't have Sanchez then they'd be far more likely to pay Toby what he's asking since he'd be a pivotal part of the team.

 

[7even]

I have been a Mourinho man since the day Sir Alex retired but I’m also old enough to see when things starts to get ugly. Right now the beginning of the end is on is way in full storm. It’s written on the wall and the alarming signs is all over the place.

A manager can survive a lot of negativity with good results but we have now reach a point of nearly no return. In a best case scenario for Mourinho he will survive to the end of the season but if results go south then the criticism will accelerate in a way that makes it impossible for him to stay. Yes! I know it sounds dramatic but I have seen this before and if anything I would be surprised if he survives to the end of the season. Only a title challenge can save him now as far as I can see.

Supporters are negative. The board neglected part of his transfer list with silence. Our CEO goes out in a public war against his own manager. (that must be a new low as far as I know) Key players sends out cryptic messages. Star players wants to leave. Ex players and pundits starts to smell blood and the criticism is all over the place. It is at this stage the point of no return is alarmingly close.

Who defends him? The CEO is dead silent. The owners says nothing. His closest friends are nowhere to see. Players are invisible. Normally at least someone close would say stop, hold the horses. Right now. Nothing. Talks of a DoF.

Maybe I’m reading to much into it but I can’t see any manager survive under such conditions.

 

[VanGaalyTime]

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An interesting take on the current situation.

This is brilliant. Exactly what many of us have been saying for a long time. Long story short: the Glazers and Woodward are the major problems with Manchester United.

 

[lewwoo]

Only time will tell but im sure the glazers perceive the team can comfortably make top 4 now after a few seasons of investment. Until we drop out of the champions league places there wont be any major investment to try and push on any further. Of course they would like to win trophies as a bonus but it isnt their priority.

 

[GM K]

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An interesting take on the current situation.

I am 100% with these guys here. Jose has been turned into the fall man and he isn't being given enough credit for what he has done at United. The light needs to be beamed elsewhere in the club for once.

 

[Garethw]

The Sanchez deal will probably cost over £100 million in transfer fee, agent fees, signing on fees and 5 years of wages. That is why we haven’t spent big this summer.

 

[#07]

I have been a Mourinho man since the day Sir Alex retired but I’m also old enough to see when things starts to get ugly. Right now the beginning of the end is on is way in full storm. It’s written on the wall and the alarming signs is all over the place.

A manager can survive a lot of negativity with good results but we have now reach a point of nearly no return. In a best case scenario for Mourinho he will survive to the end of the season but if results go south then the criticism will accelerate in a way that makes it impossible for him to stay. Yes! I know it sounds dramatic but I have seen this before and if anything I would be surprised if he survives to the end of the season. Only a title challenge can save him now as far as I can see.

Supporters are negative. The board neglected part of his transfer list with silence. Our CEO goes out in a public war against his own manager. (that must be a new low as far as I know) Key players sends out cryptic messages. Star players wants to leave. Ex players and pundits starts to smell blood and the criticism is all over the place. It is at this stage the point of no return is alarmingly close.

Who defends him? The CEO is dead silent. The owners says nothing. His closest friends are nowhere to see. Players are invisible. Normally at least someone close would say stop, hold the horses. Right now. Nothing. Talks of a DoF.

Maybe I’m reading to much into it but I can’t see any manager survive under such conditions.

Are supporters negative? Maybe on the internet but Jose got plenty of backing from J stand and the Stetford End last Friday.

I remember Xmas 2015 under LVG, we’re a million miles away from that in terms of fans and players. The players threw in the towel against Bournemouth and Norwich. Even Pogba is still doing it for the boss.

 

[GM K]

Pereira, Lingard, Rashford, MacT, Pogba. That's 5 academy players Jose is playing.

Carrick is in management and could take over one day.

Director of Football about to be hired and this could transform United. Again thanks to Jose.

Searchlight now being thrown on the Blazers and Woodward. Again thanks to Jose.

Lukaku, Fred, Bailly, Lindelof, De Gea, Pogba, etc., a strong core for the team. Many thanks to Jose.

Back to the Champions League. Twice in a row now. Thanks to Jose.

After he has been sacked or fans push him out, I hope we will at least gov him some credit and remember him for some good. Right now, he seems like the worst thing to happen to United if the media and some fans are to be believed.

 

[clarkydaz]

if what that guy says is true about Pogba and Sanchez being Woodward signings and not Jose signings, damn.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Pereira, Lingard, Rashford, MacT, Pogba. That's 5 academy players Jose is playing.

Carrick is in management and could take over one day.

Director of Football about to be hired and this could transform United. Again thanks to Jose.

Searchlight now being thrown on the Blazers and Woodward. Again thanks to Jose.

Lukaku, Fred, Bailly, Lindelof, De Gea, Pogba, etc., a strong core for the team. Many thanks to Jose.

Back to the Champions League. Twice in a row now. Thanks to Jose.

After he has been sacked or fans push him out, I hope we will at least gov him some credit and remember him for some good. Right now, he seems like the worst thing to happen to United if the media and some fans are to be believed.

Absolutely spot on but we don't have 20 chances per game so he must go. We need klopp or pochetino. Serial winners.
The truth is that lots of fans just don't love mourinho from the beginning.

 

[MV12]

Pereira, Lingard, Rashford, MacT, Pogba. That's 5 academy players Jose is playing.

Carrick is in management and could take over one day.

Director of Football about to be hired and this could transform United. Again thanks to Jose.

Searchlight now being thrown on the Blazers and Woodward. Again thanks to Jose.

Lukaku, Fred, Bailly, Lindelof, De Gea, Pogba, etc., a strong core for the team. Many thanks to Jose.

Back to the Champions League. Twice in a row now. Thanks to Jose.

After he has been sacked or fans push him out, I hope we will at least gov him some credit and remember him for some good. Right now, he seems like the worst thing to happen to United if the media and some fans are to be believed.

Too much sense!

 

[MJJ]

Pereira, Lingard, Rashford, MacT, Pogba. That's 5 academy players Jose is playing.

Carrick is in management and could take over one day.

Director of Football about to be hired and this could transform United. Again thanks to Jose.

Searchlight now being thrown on the Blazers and Woodward. Again thanks to Jose.

Lukaku, Fred, Bailly, Lindelof, De Gea, Pogba, etc., a strong core for the team. Many thanks to Jose.

Back to the Champions League. Twice in a row now. Thanks to Jose.

After he has been sacked or fans push him out, I hope we will at least gov him some credit and remember him for some good. Right now, he seems like the worst thing to happen to United if the media and some fans are to be believed.

Your post loses all credibility due to the first sentence.

 

[Tincanalley]

Mourinho is partly responsible... But... the person in charge and the clubs’ highest ranking executive is Edward Woodward so in the end it’s his responsibility ....

With this in mind then it’s totally unacceptable that Woodward brief the media about our transfer activity and our shortcomings. Sackable offense in any other industry ....

Something is seriously wrong in our organization.

When the manager (presents) his list of potential targets do they follow up his list and do a due diligence?

I’m highly critical against Edward Woodward because in my world he has seriously mismanaged this, and several other transfer windows ... It can’t be a coincidence. Being a good negotiator is about doing the ground work and knowing the market inside out. I don’t think he has that knowledge.

All sensible points. Although he did set our hearts a flutter a few times Van Persie/Mata/Di Maria/Pogba/Sanchez... he’s not really a CEO, in the way you mean. He’s a fan, a muppet mouthpiece for the owners. SAF knows that, but he too was involved in the take over, racehorses and all that. I don’t know who is doing the vetoing behind the scenes; surely not Woody on his own bat? I would be willing to bet there is some kind of power struggle going on at board level.

 

[Tincanalley]

This is brilliant. Exactly what many of us have been saying for a long time. Long story short: the Glazers and Woodward are the major problems with Manchester United.

T H I S.
Sure, criticise his playing style, but respect JM’s knowledge of football. This was his dream job: he deserves a chance. Look at how Pep is supported down the road. The weasel-face briefing against Mourinho! Good Luck!

 

[Berbaclass]

T H I S.
Sure, criticise his playing style, but respect JM’s knowledge of football. This was his dream job: he deserves a chance. Look at how Pep is supported down the road. The weasel-face briefing against Mourinho! Good Luck!

Mourinho hasn't been supported financially? Thats a load of bollocks.

I'm not his biggest fan but there comes a point where you have to just stop throwing money into the abyss. Mourinho has spent as much as Pep and now needs to rely on his famed coaching ability to get the best out of the players.

If he doesn't then he'll be gone.

The Carrick promotion and the recent DoF search are no coincidence IMO. He's being groomed to take over eventually and will be helped by McKenna and the new DoF. Thats how I see things going forward.

 

[Irish Jet]

Mourinho hasn't been supported financially? Thats a load of bollocks.

I'm not his biggest fan but there comes a point where you have to just stop throwing money into the abyss. Mourinho has spent as much as Pep and now needs to rely on his famed coaching ability to get the best out of the players.

If he doesn't then he'll be gone.

The Carrick promotion and the recent DoF search are no coincidence IMO. He's being groomed to take over eventually and will be helped by McKenna and the new DoF. Thats how I see things going forward.

Not even close. About 30% less.

Klopp has also spent more as of the last window.

 

[Berbaclass]

Not even close. About 30% less.

Klopp has also spent more as of the last window.

Fair enough. He's still been very well backed financially since he became our manager.