In a record breaking season. Irrespective, we are clearly closer. To argue we've not progressed is laughable.
The beginning of the end... (the original board vetoed Mourinho's transfer wish list thread)
- Thread starter charlenefan
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Ok. If you call being 19 points off first and being closer to 6th than 1st progressing your welcome to enjoy it.
When Jose signed the new contract i was telling here that i am pretty sure that Mournho will leave United after this year. He always left a year after signing new contract at Real and Chelsea both, simply maximizing the severance pay he receives.
Now i am even more confident in that. Think all that shananigans in transfer market is simply a way for Jose to have a future excuse available.
Now i am even more confident in that. Think all that shananigans in transfer market is simply a way for Jose to have a future excuse available.
City had a record breaking season and our points total last year was pretty much a winning haul or there abouts in many previous seasons.
Regardless of whether or not it's closer to 6th than first we were clear of 3rd place comfortably and finished 2nd. 4 places higher.
Every season is different. Van Gaal bagged 4th in his first season with pretty much the same number of points as the moyes disaster saw us languish to 7th
We've have our highest league finish since sir Alex retired. How is that not progress from 7th, 4th, 5th, 6th?
I take your point, I may be being harsh. But unless your target is Wenger style being happy to just be in the top 4, I find it hard to call it progression when you are out of the title race months before the end of the season.
The media can’t make up their mind, before this summer it was all José is the problem with united, since these last few weeks and the stories with the Board not backing José, it’s Woodward and the board which is at fault. Basically it’s whatever makes United look worse with them.
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Drama at united is what sells unfortunately. Everyone hates us so rival fans love a juicy falling apart piece whilst being the biggest club it guarantees our fans read it. Bigger catchment and hey presto more clicks and revenue
A very Vardy goal that.
Unfortunately we were I concede!
I can't see Jose settling for top four "comfort zone", but yes I think the owners already have done so
We got by far the highest points total since Fergie left and in a normal season we would have been in a title battle. You probably cannot compete with a team that gets around 100 points when you didn’t even make top 4 in previous two season.
If we finished on 65 points and 19 points behind a team that got 84 then it’s not a progress. We got 81 which was very good but couldn’t compete with a 100-point City. 100 out of 114 is ridiculous.
Still being a cnut in the post match interview. Fire the cnut.
Pretty much telling Sky it's true about this.
Why not say that Lindelöf and Bailly proved that he doesn't need a new CB, build them up in public and add some positivity? No, that would be too constructive, have to put some negative spin on it.
Thought his comments just then were absolutely fine.
It’s the same as Boris’s burka comments. Just don’t say it. Stop waging a war in public ffs.
It’s 19 points off the best ever premier league season it’s not like we were 19 points less than 79 points. We still had 81 points. It is a massive improvement your logic purposefully skews that.
As eamonn dunphy says there are stats, stats and damn lies and you can prove anything with stats
It was a very diplomatic answer to a question clearly trying to get a reaction out of him.
Diplomatic would have been “I’m always challenging my board to provide but I’m happy with the players they have delivered”.
That was just fuel on the fire.
Will he ever learn to keep his mouth shut.
First game. Proved nothing. It's more digging your own grave while Woodward peeing on you.
On the night where Luke Shaw gave a man of the match performance I'd say the board weren't exactly wrong in asking for patience with the youngsters. Left to some he'd be flogged off since June
If quotes are true, it had to be his last, board cant do the briefing again so...yea
People have become extra sensitive to any word he's saying.
He's trying to close this point once and for all. Good on him. Last thing we need is more circus off the pitch. Weren't the people asking him to do with what he has ? He's doing that already and said several times he'll do it with what he has even without signings.
He's trying to close this point once and for all. Good on him. Last thing we need is more circus off the pitch. Weren't the people asking him to do with what he has ? He's doing that already and said several times he'll do it with what he has even without signings.
I'm not too bothered by him being open on the matter considering we basically all know what happened anyway. Better that than to ignore the issue. If results come in bygones will be bygones on either side.
its different though. Mou wasn't being a racist.
He gave a good picture of things. He gave a list, it was ignored, they might as well call him a head coach now as he's got little say on transfers whatsoever. I am glad we finally have a manager whose not afraid forcing the money men to be accountable. Managers has been taking the slack for them for long enough.
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...ose-mourinho-vows-to-put-transfer-talk-to-bed
People briefing the press to protect their image, their egos. Woody is a spoilt brat.
I don't get what's wrong here? He's looking to close down this line of questioning and more on to the season ahead.
He's been pretty positive these last two days. Bullish in his pre match presser, making sure everyone knows there is no problem between himself and the players, and giving deserved praise to players that some might feel had been maligned by him before after the match. I like this Jose.
Let's see. If Shaw plays well consistently and the Bailly-Lindelof partnership works out, Ed is vindicated to an extent. Midfield is our brightest spot, as with Pereira stepping up and us playing so well in that area of the pitch, we can afford to rest Matic while Herrera, Fellaini and McTominay can play the odd games and cups -- that's decent depth.
Yesterday, we were decent but very workmanlike, and that's ok considering its the first game of the season with fitness levels not up to par. But 5-6 games into the season, I expect to see a coherent attacking system and better style of play.
I like the idea of having someone vetting the manager's transfer wishlist, especially when it comes to Mourinho. This structure has been successful at all the top clubs my only issue is that Woodward is not qualified to be a Sporting Director. It has to be someone who has football experience and understands the game. They must have a vision for the squad which also lines up with the coach. We can't scrap the squad every time a new manager comes in, look at Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern they are models for this type of structure, we should aim to replicate that.
I’m surprised/pleased by how well he’s taken this too. Although I suspect we would have seen a very different Mourinho if we’d lost. If/when we start dropping a bunch of points then this could get nasty. He’s clearly annoyed about what happened. Understandably so. It’s nuts that an accountant has been telling him that x, y, z players aren’t better than what we have.
The problem isn’t what Mourinho or Woodward says it’s that they have this debate in front of the media. This hurts the clubs reputation and in it also undermine their authority. This highlight the real problem and what’s going on the last months or so and this is the total lack of communication between the board, C-level executives and our operating manager, who also is our public face against the media.
Mourinho is partly responsible for this because of him way to often being negative about transfer activity and to open about what’s going on with certain players. But, and this is crucial when we debate responsibility, the person in charge and the clubs highest rank executive is Edward Woodward so in the end it’s his responsibility to either talk to his operating manager or give him guide lines how to act and conduct himself.
A CEO has several options when dealing with in house disagreements. The obvious one is off course to increase communication between himself and managers. The second one is to give clear instructions what to say or not to his staff, and that includes the manager and players. You can’t forbid people to talk but you can restrict them to talk as employees of the club. Straight forward that means no bs when they the represent the club.
With this in mind then it’s totally unacceptable when Woodward brief the media about our transfer activity and our shortcomings. Sackable offense in any other industry. Imaging Tim Cook going public about shortcomings with his staff at Apple Co.
Something is seriously wrong in our organization. I’m 100% sure I (and many many others) could handle this situation better then Woodward. Mu question is do they have a guide line how to operate when doing transfer business, or do they rely on individual actions? In short do the board give Woodward carte blanche how to buy players. Normally a company of this size has some sort of QA when investing so much money.
When the manager give away his list of potential targets do they follow up his list and do a due diligence?
I’m highly critical against Edward Woodward because in my world he has seriously miss managed this, and several other transfer windows with his lack of understanding and communication. It can’t be a coincidence. Being a good negotiator is about doing the ground work and know the market inside out. I don’t think he has that knowledge.
Do we need a DoF? Maybe. But more importantly we need better communication between the board who has the final say, the CEO who is highest rank executive and the operating manager. Jose Mourinho knows football, that we know, then why don’t we use his, and the scouting teams knowledge better. Give them clear instructions what kind of profiles the club are willing to heavily invest in. I’m sick of the amateurs and how badly we handle the clubs reputation.
In moments like this I miss Sir Alex more then ever.
Mourinho is partly responsible for this because of him way to often being negative about transfer activity and to open about what’s going on with certain players. But, and this is crucial when we debate responsibility, the person in charge and the clubs highest rank executive is Edward Woodward so in the end it’s his responsibility to either talk to his operating manager or give him guide lines how to act and conduct himself.
A CEO has several options when dealing with in house disagreements. The obvious one is off course to increase communication between himself and managers. The second one is to give clear instructions what to say or not to his staff, and that includes the manager and players. You can’t forbid people to talk but you can restrict them to talk as employees of the club. Straight forward that means no bs when they the represent the club.
With this in mind then it’s totally unacceptable when Woodward brief the media about our transfer activity and our shortcomings. Sackable offense in any other industry. Imaging Tim Cook going public about shortcomings with his staff at Apple Co.
Something is seriously wrong in our organization. I’m 100% sure I (and many many others) could handle this situation better then Woodward. Mu question is do they have a guide line how to operate when doing transfer business, or do they rely on individual actions? In short do the board give Woodward carte blanche how to buy players. Normally a company of this size has some sort of QA when investing so much money.
When the manager give away his list of potential targets do they follow up his list and do a due diligence?
I’m highly critical against Edward Woodward because in my world he has seriously miss managed this, and several other transfer windows with his lack of understanding and communication. It can’t be a coincidence. Being a good negotiator is about doing the ground work and know the market inside out. I don’t think he has that knowledge.
Do we need a DoF? Maybe. But more importantly we need better communication between the board who has the final say, the CEO who is highest rank executive and the operating manager. Jose Mourinho knows football, that we know, then why don’t we use his, and the scouting teams knowledge better. Give them clear instructions what kind of profiles the club are willing to heavily invest in. I’m sick of the amateurs and how badly we handle the clubs reputation.
In moments like this I miss Sir Alex more then ever.
The two sides of the coin.
We can all see why the club no longer want the quick fix, and pay heavily for players who are in the 29/30 age group, with no sell on value. We are paying a fortune in wages for Sanchez who has not produced as yet. We would be doing the same for most of the players supposedly on the list that Mourinho gave Woodward. Alderweireld, Godin, Boateng. We sent out Fosu,Tuanzebe on loan,who could ( with coaching and games) make it here.
Getting rid of young players like Shaw, Martial, is not the answer. We need to give players a chance, a manager to put their arm around them and encourage them, instead of slating them in public. I am sure there are managers who would love to have these players on their side. We have some others who are only waiting to be called up from the academy and under 23's.
We all know where our weaknesses are. Full backs and a right winger, but we chased neither, or the wrong ones. Ok Dalot was brought in, but is he for the future or now, remains to be seen also. We scored only 68 goals last season ( worst in top 4) and this was mostly down to the way we played our football ( more defensive ) with no proper wingers and a very lonely Lukaku at times.
The other side of the Coin
Woodward and the club, promised to back Mourinho all the way in the transfer market, when he arrived. The first year and the second year they done this. Bailly and Lindelof were brought in and last night were their first game together. Maybe this is because we could not bring in a new CB
(his 3rd in 3 years) or just that others are not ready remains to be seen.
Yes, we should back the manager, but he in return he should be giving us what he promised when signing his lucrative contract. Trophies, while playing the United way. Yes, he fulfilled this the first season as regards trophies, but without the good football. He also took all the credit himself, as he does.
This season he should forget about what happened in the transfer market and get on with playing with what he has for now. We have a huge Kitty
(so it is claimed) and we can look for the players we need to bring in this January, and go on and win us that 21st Premiership.
Sort things out with woodward, and then Heads up and keep us up there and start to work together on players we need for January transfer window.
We can all see why the club no longer want the quick fix, and pay heavily for players who are in the 29/30 age group, with no sell on value. We are paying a fortune in wages for Sanchez who has not produced as yet. We would be doing the same for most of the players supposedly on the list that Mourinho gave Woodward. Alderweireld, Godin, Boateng. We sent out Fosu,Tuanzebe on loan,who could ( with coaching and games) make it here.
Getting rid of young players like Shaw, Martial, is not the answer. We need to give players a chance, a manager to put their arm around them and encourage them, instead of slating them in public. I am sure there are managers who would love to have these players on their side. We have some others who are only waiting to be called up from the academy and under 23's.
We all know where our weaknesses are. Full backs and a right winger, but we chased neither, or the wrong ones. Ok Dalot was brought in, but is he for the future or now, remains to be seen also. We scored only 68 goals last season ( worst in top 4) and this was mostly down to the way we played our football ( more defensive ) with no proper wingers and a very lonely Lukaku at times.
The other side of the Coin
Woodward and the club, promised to back Mourinho all the way in the transfer market, when he arrived. The first year and the second year they done this. Bailly and Lindelof were brought in and last night were their first game together. Maybe this is because we could not bring in a new CB
(his 3rd in 3 years) or just that others are not ready remains to be seen.
Yes, we should back the manager, but he in return he should be giving us what he promised when signing his lucrative contract. Trophies, while playing the United way. Yes, he fulfilled this the first season as regards trophies, but without the good football. He also took all the credit himself, as he does.
This season he should forget about what happened in the transfer market and get on with playing with what he has for now. We have a huge Kitty
(so it is claimed) and we can look for the players we need to bring in this January, and go on and win us that 21st Premiership.
Sort things out with woodward, and then Heads up and keep us up there and start to work together on players we need for January transfer window.
Jesus. So you trust Ed Woodward, the ex investment banker to make footballing decisions at the club. Says it all really...
This "we were closer to 6th than 1st" argument to show we made no progress last year is one of the most stupidest things I've read on this forum.
We were 19 points away from a City side that broke every record, on 81 points. We've won the league with less than that more than once. City last season had 100 points. The Arsenal side who went unbeatable got 90 points, our treble winning side got 79 points. Our 07/08 CL winning side ended on 87 points. Mourinho's Chelsea in 04/05 reached 95 points. There no fecking point comparing anything to City's last season.
In 2016/2017:
Klopp, who a lot of here fantasise about, was 17 points off Chelsea
Poch, who has won feck all but who a lot would like to see taking Jose's place, was 7 points off Chelsea
In 2017/2018
Klopp was closer to Burnley and Everton than to City, 25 points off City.
Poch, also closer to Burnley and Everton, 23 points off City.
If our second place finish and beating City, Pool, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea in the process isn't progress, then the least you could do is to shut the feck up about Liverpool and Spurs being better than us and dreaming about Poch or Klopp in charge of United, that's only okay in sex masochism.
We were 19 points away from a City side that broke every record, on 81 points. We've won the league with less than that more than once. City last season had 100 points. The Arsenal side who went unbeatable got 90 points, our treble winning side got 79 points. Our 07/08 CL winning side ended on 87 points. Mourinho's Chelsea in 04/05 reached 95 points. There no fecking point comparing anything to City's last season.
In 2016/2017:
Klopp, who a lot of here fantasise about, was 17 points off Chelsea
Poch, who has won feck all but who a lot would like to see taking Jose's place, was 7 points off Chelsea
In 2017/2018
Klopp was closer to Burnley and Everton than to City, 25 points off City.
Poch, also closer to Burnley and Everton, 23 points off City.
If our second place finish and beating City, Pool, Arsenal, Spurs and Chelsea in the process isn't progress, then the least you could do is to shut the feck up about Liverpool and Spurs being better than us and dreaming about Poch or Klopp in charge of United, that's only okay in sex masochism.
Who’s Sanchez the young boy at spurs ?
Jesus. You trust ex-sport scientist instead of successful CEO of the club to make decisions about financial decisions in the club?
Thought it was Winston Churchill who said that!
The one keeping Toby out of the team.
I call it a fact. Add to that a League Cup win, Europa League win, Fa cup final, reaching the knock out stage of the Champions League etc and you can see that to argue that there has been no progress is simply false.
There really isn't a debate to be had here. When you speak of progress, you must make a comparison. So the comparison is the seasons under Mou vs those without (post Fergie) generally speaking and of course season v season. You keep mentioning being closer to 6th and how many points behind we were. It's irrelevant. Progress involves being better and doing better than you were before. So compare our dreadful 2nd place finish with the season before and the season before. ... and the season before that. You will quickly realise that you just mean we are not as good as you want us to be yet. I'd imagine we can all agree with that.
Now perhaps you feel under Jose we never will be. That we can only progress so much but not enough to win the league or the Champions League. That is not an opinion I'm challenging. I'm just saying that if you think that, it still doesn't mean that there's been no progress. Because it is a fact that there has been.
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