Also there is a different football culture. Players like Firmino, Keita and Fabinho who struggled for months would be seen as flops at United.
The big picture: A breakdown of Liverpool's transfer-strategy and (dis)similarities to us
- Thread starter ROFLUTION
- Start date
Great piece, you can only give credit to Liverpool to how they turned around their squad over the past seasons.
Still I believe it is better to have a strong structure around a manager who ensure consistency and a vision for the club, play style, and type of players (and manager) attracted, in Director of Football roles. Liverpool actually also have a DoF whom Klopp actively works with but was there before him, Michael Edwards. We need to get a DoF in place asap, before making any new signings.
Still I believe it is better to have a strong structure around a manager who ensure consistency and a vision for the club, play style, and type of players (and manager) attracted, in Director of Football roles. Liverpool actually also have a DoF whom Klopp actively works with but was there before him, Michael Edwards. We need to get a DoF in place asap, before making any new signings.
You forgot, Liverpool has DOF and technical director role all this time.
They had things wrong, failure? Sure. The DOF had to take responsibilities. They came from football background which helps with the work the managers don't have time, understanding to deal with. Getting the right personnel for every role is ultimately vital without doubt. The point is when one thing being done right, the structure enables it to be built on, rather than chicken out half way through, undoing the whole past seasons thus restart the rebuild
They had things wrong, failure? Sure. The DOF had to take responsibilities. They came from football background which helps with the work the managers don't have time, understanding to deal with. Getting the right personnel for every role is ultimately vital without doubt. The point is when one thing being done right, the structure enables it to be built on, rather than chicken out half way through, undoing the whole past seasons thus restart the rebuild
Last edited:
Hummels
Reus
Gundogan
Auba
Lewandowski
Have all been great before and after him, both at Dortmund and elsewhere. They had a number of solid squad players there too.
As for his transfers, he doesn't have autonomy. They have a 'committee' and apparently he didn't want Salah but was overruled.
He is a great coach mind, not just tactically, he creates camaraderie and a buzz. Before Sturridge went on last night he gave him a massive hug.
Salad point was spot on. It's needed to be repeat Salah was wanted by Liverpool transfer committee when he moved to Chelsea. The interest in him was consistent
Look up Daniel Comolli and Michael Edwards if anyone think Liverpool doesn't implement a modern model. See my previous post if you want to talk about failure. There is no absolute. Point is structure enabling you to be transparent about thus knowing exactly what to fix, not an overhaul.
Last edited:
FSG/Liverpool only did one thing right, is to hire Klopp. Nothing more.
I forgot Lewandowski and Aubameyang who was actually better without him in my opinion. Reus didn't left Dortmund and hasn't been as good, Gundogan hasn't been as good, I also wouldn't call him a success, same with Hummels.
Most heartening thing I took from that is how bad Liverpool have had it over the last decade. Hopefully we can sort ourselves out more quickly.
Basically, you get the right manager and you go after the right targets. People obsess about structure, this and that. It's just having the right people in charge within the structure we have. Our structure, whatever we have now, Van Gaal said it himself that it isnt bad. It's just the wrong people at the positions.
When the manager wants to go after the wrong players, when they dont know how to coach the team properly, when they have a flawed idea of the way forward or their ambitions dont line up with the club... that's going to create problems. When the person in charge of transfers (or the one who gives approval) has a different idea to the manager, that creates problems. When the person in charge of managerial appointments doesn't know what they want for that position, it leads to what we've seen here, 4 drastically different managers post Sir Alex.
From Woodwards point of view, it doesn't necessarily have to change too much. If Ole is the right guy, then he just has to back him. If not, he has to know what direction the club should move forward in. Every manager should be one that will promote the youth and give them a chance, every manager should be one that plays attacking football in some way, and one that understands the expectations and can transmit these expectations to the team. They have to be trusted that the players they want will improve their plan, and that they can coach their plan effectively and that plan is in line with the overall club vision. City have done that and prepared for Pep and now hes succeeded massively because hes also just a brilliant coach. Liverpool's owners werent great, but the clubs history and timing lined up well for Klopp and they got lucky he wanted to join. Since he came, they backed him with what he wanted in the transfer market, and saw there was gradual improvement and it led to this.
When the manager wants to go after the wrong players, when they dont know how to coach the team properly, when they have a flawed idea of the way forward or their ambitions dont line up with the club... that's going to create problems. When the person in charge of transfers (or the one who gives approval) has a different idea to the manager, that creates problems. When the person in charge of managerial appointments doesn't know what they want for that position, it leads to what we've seen here, 4 drastically different managers post Sir Alex.
From Woodwards point of view, it doesn't necessarily have to change too much. If Ole is the right guy, then he just has to back him. If not, he has to know what direction the club should move forward in. Every manager should be one that will promote the youth and give them a chance, every manager should be one that plays attacking football in some way, and one that understands the expectations and can transmit these expectations to the team. They have to be trusted that the players they want will improve their plan, and that they can coach their plan effectively and that plan is in line with the overall club vision. City have done that and prepared for Pep and now hes succeeded massively because hes also just a brilliant coach. Liverpool's owners werent great, but the clubs history and timing lined up well for Klopp and they got lucky he wanted to join. Since he came, they backed him with what he wanted in the transfer market, and saw there was gradual improvement and it led to this.
Woodward boasted (in summary) that "Sanchez signing generated 75% more social media interactions than Neymar to PSG. Set new Jan record for shirt sales. Three times previous best." It may be an exaggeration to say it’s why we bought him but it speaks of misplaced priorities at the top. Generallly you’d wait until a player performs on the pitch before giving yourself a pat on the back.
Liverpool has DOF, technical director role. Have transfer committee...
To get Klopp, their "football men" were able to sell the club to him! Same with buying players for so called right price. If you can't pay silly wage on get go for unproven talent, selling the project is needed.
It's not like Liverpool was the only one in for Klopp. Adult Disneyland say hello. Same with their signings. Wage structure without pulling the new manager into a mess of underserved overpaid squad status.
Our next successful manager could come out of nowhere. I'd love to be sat in a pub 30 odd years ago and people might of been clamouring for Charlton to manage the club and not "some bloke from that Mickey Mouse Scottish league".
Great write up, detailed and well presented.
Great write up, detailed and well presented.
English clubs ran on same model back then. We didn't do anything out of the norm. We got the right "guy", a proven winner, at time when the gap between league ain't as huge.
Winning Scottish league on different occasions with team outside of Celtic, Rangers, and beat Madrid, Bayern to win European Cup Winner's Cup ain't just some random bloke.
Wouldn't we of looked at Everton or Villa managers who had won the league?
One of the biggest interesting changes for me is that more recently we seem to have moved from a "buy the best combination of value and ability that we are able to get" and instead we've moved to "pay what we need in order to get who we want. IF YOU CAN"T GET THAT PERSON, WAIT FOR ANOTHER PERSON TO WORK". I think this can not only be seen with VVD and Alisson, but also with Keita (willing to pay early and over the top to get him in the future), Oxlade-Chamberlain (paying over the top for a player that would be free in a year's time). It seems like we're happy to just wait than buy an alternative. THis is certainly very different from times past and feels critical to how things are running at the moment.
Dalglish won league titles with two different sides. I wouldn’t call him inexperienced so much as unsuited to modern football.
The main difference between Klopp and Rodgers aside from the fact Rodgers for whatever reason decided he would go away from what works well for our squad and bring in a target man, is that Klopp had no issues working with Micheal Edwards whereas Rodgers was much more reluctant. Summer 15 being a prime example, we got a committee signing in Firmino and a Rodgers one in benteke as a compromise. Nobody was on the same page and that resulted in inconsistent results.
Klopp on the other hand trusts ME enough to let him make a signing he wouldn’t have otherwise thought about I.e Salah.
It’s not that Klopp didn’t want him he just trusted Edwards enough that the signing was the right one. A manager has enough to do without having to do all the scouting and signings too, it’s just too big a job on your own. He had a similar structure with Watzke at BVB.
We’ve in the last couple of years been able to add the spine to the team. Allison VVD and Fabinho. Adding the extra quality that was missing. Characters like Henderson and Milner are great but they’re part of a squad now rather than the main men and it allows them to contribute even more effectively. We’ve added what we always lacked.
The main difference between Klopp and Rodgers aside from the fact Rodgers for whatever reason decided he would go away from what works well for our squad and bring in a target man, is that Klopp had no issues working with Micheal Edwards whereas Rodgers was much more reluctant. Summer 15 being a prime example, we got a committee signing in Firmino and a Rodgers one in benteke as a compromise. Nobody was on the same page and that resulted in inconsistent results.
Klopp on the other hand trusts ME enough to let him make a signing he wouldn’t have otherwise thought about I.e Salah.
It’s not that Klopp didn’t want him he just trusted Edwards enough that the signing was the right one. A manager has enough to do without having to do all the scouting and signings too, it’s just too big a job on your own. He had a similar structure with Watzke at BVB.
We’ve in the last couple of years been able to add the spine to the team. Allison VVD and Fabinho. Adding the extra quality that was missing. Characters like Henderson and Milner are great but they’re part of a squad now rather than the main men and it allows them to contribute even more effectively. We’ve added what we always lacked.
Yeah, even if a side is a mess structurally, there's no reason they can't still win stuff if they strike gold or plays their cards right. Chelsea have been a mess for years and sometimes that's come back to bite them drastically and (for us) hilariously, but a manager like Conte was also able to transform them almost instantly and win the league. Similarly Real Madrid often seem to be a perpetual circus and yet still regularly win the CL. I think structurally getting things sound can contribute more to consistency and ensures things don't fall apart, but with the right foundations it's ultimately still all about the manager and the players.
Winning Scottish league on different occasions with team outside of Celtic, Rangers, and beat Madrid, Bayern to win European Cup Winner's Cup ain't just some random bloke.
The Aston Villa manager who won the title was literally destroying all his legacy (relegating 2 teams) after his success, by the time SAF was being looked at (up coming successful young manager). The one who won the equivalent of CL was a caretaker who eventually couldn't maintain the standard, and returned to form as assistant manager for his next jobs. It's like asking to appoint Di Matteo.
Everton during that period was not shy of our history/ achievement of the time. We're in no position to cherry pick manager from an on going successful team, that's not taking into account of Scouse Manc rivalry even if it's inferior to that of the Red Scouse. It's like the equivalent thinking of us being able to get Klopp or Pep nowadays just by giving them a phone call this very day.
Last edited:
Fair enough.
Exactly. A good structure can ensure consistency at the top and less transition time, but ultimately, it's down to transfers and the managers coaching/management ability. Liverpool "struck gold" with Klopp. They didnt sell some sort of amazing project for him. They were a sleeping giant club, a very historic club, but also one that could compete at the top financially because of the size of the club. Klopp isn't a manager who goes for the very biggest teams, he likes building up a team and he's always been a manager who all else equal, he'll pick the sleeping giant/underdog over the favourite of the competition. So all their owners had to "sell" was saying they would support him in the transfer market and give him time to turn it around.
We dominated English football for decades under Sir Alex until 2013. The structure was working just fine then, we just had the best manager ever in charge and David Gill instead of Woodward who never questioned Sir Alex. The problem comes when Woodward thinks he's "gifting" players to the manager and goes after big names to make them happy, instead of just going after what the manager needs/wants. That's all that is needed when you really break it down. A proper structure in place helps, but its ultimately down to the manager and the players being good enough. No manager can make shit players look world class. They can improve to an extent, and make the sum greater then the individual parts, true, but nobody would turn this group into title challengers (in performances).
Just wrote in the other post, Klopp's main attraction to Liverpool was who they are as a football club historically, and being a sleeping giant so to speak. He's a manager who will always take on those jobs where he can build rather than join the best team around. That's why he never got tempted by Real Madrid or someone like that.
If you compare United and Liverpool in 2015 - United is one of the biggest commercial clubs in the world, has unlimited spending, has the expectations to win everything asap, was recently dominating England. Liverpool a much smaller club globally and commercially, but used to be the top dogs long ago and want to get back to that and are prepared to give the time and patience to get there without there being these massive expectations of instant title challenges. Klopp likes projects and it's an easy project to sell because the football club and their failure over the past 30 years was basically a big part in him being drawn to it now. He never wanted to go to a Real Madrid type of team, that's just not his style or preference. Them having a transfer committee or whatever else meant feck all to him joining them, that's just different structural preferences but the main thing is the people behind the scenes put their faith in the manager and trust if they provide the money, he can get the results at the end of the day. That's what it boils down to. Their exact structure was seen as problematic before he joined.
We dont need to copy anyone's structure, we just have to have a manager with the right plan, the ability to execute that plan, then whoever is in charge of transfers to not interfere and deliver on what the manager wants if they trust them. That's it.
While I am not disagreeing on Klopp want to a huge building project, it's not just a bigger challenge he bought into.
Liverpool challenged for title not long ago. We were an total mess post SAF. The team need a whole new identity. The time LVG struggling we're no better than Liverpool. Unlike Liverpool there was no plan to sell. If Klopp just wants to be in total control then he would have it. The reality is that Klopp seemed to notice Woodward's true intention of backseating driving, and failure to sell the project. It's not like we and Liverpool are different in our transfer strategy all these years before Woodward came into the scene. Both made big signings from time to time, but still teams to develop players to fulfill their potential , than trying to integrating Galaticos signings. What went wrong was Woodward pseudo Galaticos policy. Liverpool at that time has football men in place to do the sale. Other Liverpool fan just confirmed they have structure in place and Klopp didn't need to do everything.
I think even with the same structures in place, Klopp chooses Liverpool over United simply because they are a much smaller club right now from a commercial/global point of view. That's also largely irrelevant because in 2013 when Fergie left, Klopp didn't want to leave Dortmund for anyone. Same in 2014 post Moyes. We signed Van Gaal, and were happy with him after 2014/15, while he had a rough season and felt he couldnt move forward with Dortmund anymore. Liverpool at the same time ended things with Rodgers because he had gone stale. As much as Klopp simply preferring Liverpools type of club over United, I think the timing just worked perfectly for Klopp to Liverpool more than anyone else so it was an easy choice at the time.
Of course, not arguing that Klopp was put off by Woodwards obsession with showing off his spending power. Serious managers want serious clubs, whereas Woodward is basically just a fan who knows how to do the business side of things but just a transfer muppet who gets excited at big names for the football side of things.
I know what you are saying and obviously the coach is very important but there aren’t that many Klopps around (back to back CL finals and 95+ points while working on a normal big club budget is seriously impressive). Putting it down to “getting the right manager” - that sounds to me too much like a repeat of the 70s and 80s where we have 5 attempts at replacing Sir Matt before we land the right one. Ideally I’d want a system putting in place which, relying on our commercial muscle, is robust enough that it allows a merely good manager to succeed rather than relying on unearthing a great. That’s how the continental giants operate, and it has worked in England too (City with Mancini and Pelligrini, Liverpool with Fagin and Dalglish if you go back further).
The thing i notice is that they build the team around the front three. They have MFs who maybe lack finesse, but work their socks off like we saw last night. This then is the foundation for their attackers. Gini, Henderson, milner and keita are work horses designed to provide the framework for salah and mane to thrive.
Liverpool actually had a DoF in the Dalglish and early Rogers eras: Damien Comolli. He signed Suarez. And Carroll, Adam, Downing etc.
A lot of people conclude that its as easy as getting a 'Klopp' in or getting the manager right. I dont think thats the take-away at all.
He succeeds at Liverpool because the board has bought similar players to his system for a good while, and he was able to built on top of that instead of dealing with expensive, non-performing players on high wages or a board that only wants to buy marketable players. There was not much for him to sort out.
Klopp at current United would be toxic, and he wouldnt be getting hard working players - He'd have to deal with commercial players full of themselves. Might implode and be sacked after year 2.
He might even be overruled if a player is not marketable enough. So its not as easy as 'just get the manager right' - both the DoF/Comittee part has to play well with the manager or else a conflict between manager and Woodward/Glazers who only thinks of marketability/money emerges.
In short we don't have a good football brain-side to what we're doing - we play to a commercial tune mostly, not a footballing one.
He succeeds at Liverpool because the board has bought similar players to his system for a good while, and he was able to built on top of that instead of dealing with expensive, non-performing players on high wages or a board that only wants to buy marketable players. There was not much for him to sort out.
Klopp at current United would be toxic, and he wouldnt be getting hard working players - He'd have to deal with commercial players full of themselves. Might implode and be sacked after year 2.
He might even be overruled if a player is not marketable enough. So its not as easy as 'just get the manager right' - both the DoF/Comittee part has to play well with the manager or else a conflict between manager and Woodward/Glazers who only thinks of marketability/money emerges.
In short we don't have a good football brain-side to what we're doing - we play to a commercial tune mostly, not a footballing one.
Oh I agree for sure, but even still, you need the right manager to get it right. Barca continuously have a world class 11 but have been embarrassed in the CL 2 years in a row. Madrid are a mess this season, predictably after losing Ronaldo. What I'm saying is that you dont need some massively different structure for that. Just whoever is in that background role to make every decision with the same vision for the club in mind (being one focused on the footballing development and in line with the clubs traditions). Every manager they go after should be similar types in terms of play style, youth development, etc and the transfers should be focused on what the team needs to improve according to that vision. That doesnt really need to be a different structure, it just has to be a mindset change, a change in priorities to go back to focusing on the footballing side, stop going after just big name players but go after the right players. That's why I'm not too fussed about Ole not being proven. If we get back to getting the right sort of players, then at least it'll put us back on track even if he isnt quite good enough personally as a manager. You want to be as "failure proof" as possible, but obviously at the end of the day the manager will have the biggest influence in terms of success/failure, provided they are backed.
Our failures over the past 6 years I'd basically business 101. Such a scatter gun approach, no consistency in direction, no similarities in managerial appointments, ignoring team needs and going after big name players... it's like common sense shit on how not to run a football club. Seeing it at a club like Man United is beyond ridiculous and looks terrible, but you would also expect that maybe, just maybe, the person who fecked up so much would eventually realize that they're making poor decisions and change their approach. Woodwards whole approach could change easily, while a manager being good enough to effectively communicate his plan and being able to implement it to the team isnt something that can just be flipped like a switch. That's why the manager is still really important. You need one step at a time and we're a long way away from being able to just be one of the best teams in the world and be almost manager proof. Not even sure how possible that is in the premier league these days with the money in the top 6.
It's the structure. Even DOF doesn't work alone. Even the assistants, performance analysist... less celebrated job titles play their roles.
From what we hear, we are all over the place. We did hire reputable workers for roles, yet it was just unassembled parts, not a machine. News about the people at the club doing their things and didn't even come to talk to each other for a conclusion is there to see. How De Ligt suggestion being ignored, to players that is further down to pecking order gets a lengthy contract while some others in the managers' plan running down their contracts.
Youth development should be a burden to the manager. The manager can go extra mile voluntarily on his own to understand more about the youth system. It's not the requirement of his job to oversee it as it's on its own a full time huge job on it own. For example, potential attainable new Messi would require plenty of work to bring him from Argentina, working with paperwork to bring him over. First football schedule is busy enough. Klopp doesn't have to do that at both Dortmund and Liverpool for instance.
I am not disagreeing with your whole point. I believe we're talking about the same thing. My point about our disagreement is in the importance of structure when it comes to this age. It's not when we got SAF where other clubs doing the same thing as us, that our probability for success is the same as anyone's.
The way we are the new managers walk in and being greeted with a mountain of unfinished work with no help. Even Klopp couldn't do shite with that. Imagine Klopp Liverpool without Salah last season. They could pretty much have found themselves without CL this season (Mane wasn't as productive as this year). Van Dijk as the Liverpool pointed out was Michael Edwards' idea. Klopp would have blame the desert wind from Middle East for the leaking defense without the help.
Tbh it's not just Liverpool who have done this. Just look at the 15/16 Spurs team which I think has been their best team to date.
Lloris - Lyon
Walker - Sheffield United
Rose - Academy
Vertonghan - Ajax
Alderweireld -Southampton/Atletico
Dembele - Fulham
Dier - Sporting Lisbon
Lamela - Roma
Alli - MK Dons
Eriksen - Ajax
Kane - Academy
You can also look at the Leicester title winning team, we used to do the same under SAF but we lost our values and traditions when left. We need to get back to this if we're going to rebuild properly.
Lloris - Lyon
Walker - Sheffield United
Rose - Academy
Vertonghan - Ajax
Alderweireld -Southampton/Atletico
Dembele - Fulham
Dier - Sporting Lisbon
Lamela - Roma
Alli - MK Dons
Eriksen - Ajax
Kane - Academy
You can also look at the Leicester title winning team, we used to do the same under SAF but we lost our values and traditions when left. We need to get back to this if we're going to rebuild properly.
Time Frame is Jan 2016-Jan 2019
1. The first thing to state is that United have won the FA Cup in 2016, League Cup in 2017, Europa League Final in 2017 and finish second in the league in 2017-18. Liverpool
haven't won a trophy during that time 2016-2018. Klopp reached the Europa League Final in 2016, League Cup Final in 2016, European Cup Final in 2018.
2. United are on their third manager since Jurgen Klopp came to Liverpool in 2015 October.
3. United have spent 360m sterling recouping 90m since May 2016 to now. Liverpool have spent 414m sterling recouping 260m.
October 2015-May 2016 Jurgen spends his time managing the team while assessing what he has inherited. He has inherited a squad of over 40 professionals. He brings in Grujic in Jan 2016 for 5m circa. He reaches two cup finals before the season ends using exclusively the squad he inherited.
2016-2017 he ships out 16 players buying in 5 (Karius, Klavan, Matip, Wijnaldum and Mane) and bringing Woodburn and TAA through the youth system. Karius ends up not being the successor to Mignolet and Klavan is a useful backup centre back who has since been moved on. The last three have been excellent signings for Liverpool. He manages to get 30m for Benteke.
2017-18 he brings in 5 players Salah, Solanke, Robertson, Ox, and VVD in Jan. He buys Solanke for 3m and gets 19m 18 months later. Ox proves to be a very useful addition sadly now only coming back (may 19) from a serious injury. Salah, Robertson and in particular VVD prove to be masterstroke signings. Loses the European Cup Final with serious self inflicted wounds i.e. Karius. He recoups 130m from the sales of Sakho and Coutinho.
2018-19 he brings in Keita, Fabinho, Shaqiri and Allisson. In Allisson he solves the goalkeeping problem. Keita and Fabinho add steel to the midfield and Shaqiri adds creativity. He also sets up a deal whereby Southampton will pay us 20m in summer 2019 for the purchase of Danny Ings. He had moved on two players he signed permanently (Solanke and Klavan). Solanke was signed for 3m and sold on for 19m 18 months later!
Since he came Klopp has moved on 26 our of 42 professionals he inherited in 2 1/2 years from June 2016-Jan 2019. Each season he has added key additions not only to the squad but to the first team. He had identified weak points in the team and strengthened superbly. It is really hard to criticise his transfer dealings since he came to Anfield. Klavan is the only player signed aged over 28. All his key signings were young 24-27.
He put his neck on the block in signing VVD, Alisson and Keita due to the large fees. First two are successes and I expect Keita to continue to improve. Salah, Mane and Robertson have doubled or tripled in value. Matip was a free signing. Wijnaldum cost 1/2 what Fred cost.
Now lets look at United.
2016-17
Pogba 90m. A match winner but inconsistent moody and brings negative press to the club due to stories of wanting away and lifestyle issues.
Bailly 30m showed good promise but has faded and no longer a regular starter.
Ibrahimovic free was a good signing and worth the one season you got out of him.
Mkhitaryan 27m a very talented player but not a consistent performer at the highest level.
I wouldn't have sold Depay as I think he is a good player.
2017-18
Lindelof 30m has in the 2018-19 come into his own and become a regular starter. A good signing imo.
Lukaku 75m had a good first season but faded this season. United over paid by at least 20m in my opinion.
Matic 40m had a good first season but his legs now look gone. Crazy money for a 29 year old.
Sanchez swap with Mkhi shades of going from the frying pan into the fire with this one. His wages have proved to be a millstone around the clubs neck. Disastrous signing.
2018-19
Fred 50m hard to see how he will come good. Right age but beyond that I expect United to ship a loss on him.
Dalot 20m and worth the punt I think in the long run.
Grant 1.5m a bit long in the tooth and with Romero there why was he signed?
I would not have sold Fellaini. Not a typical United player but gave ye another option if plan A wasn't working.
1. The first thing to state is that United have won the FA Cup in 2016, League Cup in 2017, Europa League Final in 2017 and finish second in the league in 2017-18. Liverpool
haven't won a trophy during that time 2016-2018. Klopp reached the Europa League Final in 2016, League Cup Final in 2016, European Cup Final in 2018.
2. United are on their third manager since Jurgen Klopp came to Liverpool in 2015 October.
3. United have spent 360m sterling recouping 90m since May 2016 to now. Liverpool have spent 414m sterling recouping 260m.
October 2015-May 2016 Jurgen spends his time managing the team while assessing what he has inherited. He has inherited a squad of over 40 professionals. He brings in Grujic in Jan 2016 for 5m circa. He reaches two cup finals before the season ends using exclusively the squad he inherited.
2016-2017 he ships out 16 players buying in 5 (Karius, Klavan, Matip, Wijnaldum and Mane) and bringing Woodburn and TAA through the youth system. Karius ends up not being the successor to Mignolet and Klavan is a useful backup centre back who has since been moved on. The last three have been excellent signings for Liverpool. He manages to get 30m for Benteke.
2017-18 he brings in 5 players Salah, Solanke, Robertson, Ox, and VVD in Jan. He buys Solanke for 3m and gets 19m 18 months later. Ox proves to be a very useful addition sadly now only coming back (may 19) from a serious injury. Salah, Robertson and in particular VVD prove to be masterstroke signings. Loses the European Cup Final with serious self inflicted wounds i.e. Karius. He recoups 130m from the sales of Sakho and Coutinho.
2018-19 he brings in Keita, Fabinho, Shaqiri and Allisson. In Allisson he solves the goalkeeping problem. Keita and Fabinho add steel to the midfield and Shaqiri adds creativity. He also sets up a deal whereby Southampton will pay us 20m in summer 2019 for the purchase of Danny Ings. He had moved on two players he signed permanently (Solanke and Klavan). Solanke was signed for 3m and sold on for 19m 18 months later!
Since he came Klopp has moved on 26 our of 42 professionals he inherited in 2 1/2 years from June 2016-Jan 2019. Each season he has added key additions not only to the squad but to the first team. He had identified weak points in the team and strengthened superbly. It is really hard to criticise his transfer dealings since he came to Anfield. Klavan is the only player signed aged over 28. All his key signings were young 24-27.
He put his neck on the block in signing VVD, Alisson and Keita due to the large fees. First two are successes and I expect Keita to continue to improve. Salah, Mane and Robertson have doubled or tripled in value. Matip was a free signing. Wijnaldum cost 1/2 what Fred cost.
Now lets look at United.
2016-17
Pogba 90m. A match winner but inconsistent moody and brings negative press to the club due to stories of wanting away and lifestyle issues.
Bailly 30m showed good promise but has faded and no longer a regular starter.
Ibrahimovic free was a good signing and worth the one season you got out of him.
Mkhitaryan 27m a very talented player but not a consistent performer at the highest level.
I wouldn't have sold Depay as I think he is a good player.
2017-18
Lindelof 30m has in the 2018-19 come into his own and become a regular starter. A good signing imo.
Lukaku 75m had a good first season but faded this season. United over paid by at least 20m in my opinion.
Matic 40m had a good first season but his legs now look gone. Crazy money for a 29 year old.
Sanchez swap with Mkhi shades of going from the frying pan into the fire with this one. His wages have proved to be a millstone around the clubs neck. Disastrous signing.
2018-19
Fred 50m hard to see how he will come good. Right age but beyond that I expect United to ship a loss on him.
Dalot 20m and worth the punt I think in the long run.
Grant 1.5m a bit long in the tooth and with Romero there why was he signed?
I would not have sold Fellaini. Not a typical United player but gave ye another option if plan A wasn't working.
Blind, who is going to be winning the Champions League this season?
Christ reading this and other threads in the last week has really shed light on united’s issues which seem worse than thought looking from the outside. We went through Gillet and Hicks which was even worse than this. A mgr like Klopp isn’t going to solve it though because you haven’t the patience. You need to get rid of your money man and hire a sportsman or sell the club.
You have to be ruthless and loud to make it happen. A constant noise. Maybe get SAF to come out and say something negative if he is not being paid by current ownership.
You have to be ruthless and loud to make it happen. A constant noise. Maybe get SAF to come out and say something negative if he is not being paid by current ownership.
This is a great analysis. Basically, it is Moneyball. Please watch the movie and see the logic behind it in baseball. It was pioneered by Billy Beane as part of the Oakland Athletics in 2002. Then Red Sox wanted to hire him, but he did not go there. Red Sox used the Moneyball approach to build the Red Sox and win the world series in 2004!
Guess who owns the Red Sox? I ll give you a hint Fenway Sports Group!
Guess who owns the Red Sox? I ll give you a hint Fenway Sports Group!
With the exception of Karius, every signing they have made since 16/17 has been a hit.
Absolutely. Signings like Robertson and Wijnaldum may have looked strange on paper, but they knew exactly what they were doing.
Oh, he is getting paid. Same with all the other former players keeping their mouth shut.
Only way for us to force a change of ownership is to do what we can to make the club less profitable. If we are able to make the club lose value and there are unmistakable signs that its value is going to plummet further, then they will sell the club for a reasonable fee.
Difference between Football and baseball is that football is more dynamic, more variables and x number of times harder to quantify. Baseball is a stop/start game, with fever variables and fairly doable to quantify as showcased in the movie.
But parts of the method used in Moneyball is applied in football, and have been for some time.
++
Pretty much this, buck ends with the manager. If you have the right man at the helm, progress will follow.
Having a system is one thing. Implementing and motivating players to play it is another. That's where Klopp comes into his own.
Difference is Klopp. He's turned Liverpool into the fittest team in the world. There's no other team that runs and presses as much as that team over 90 mins. And they've brought in players that are hungry and fit into Klopp's system.