The Double Draft

[harms]

Suarez and Seeler are back. Only Mladini is a big hit, but certainly not irreplaceable.

Yeah, I know that they're back, just pointing at the pattern

 

[harms]

@Invictus @Theon @Chesterlestreet @harms @Downcast

Just to add some heat to the bidding wars...do you people want to know your opponents before the auction?

I'm okay either way

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I'll announce them match-up's in a bit. That should spice up the bidding war.

 

[Ecstatic]

Ouch @Downcast

Yeah. I'm like that looking for EAP

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I'll announce them match-up's in a bit. That should spice up the bidding war.

Not sure it will, actually.

The need to prepare for three possible scenarios (and beyond) could potentially make the bidding more spicy. If you know who you're up against, there are certain variables you can ignore - at least short-term.

And the likelihood of anyone being in a position to use the actual bids to feck up their opponent is slim, I'd say. Whether it gets spicy or not will depend - mainly - on whether people go for the same targets or not (as per usual). And, as suggested, some of those wars might simply go out the window if you know who you'll play (because that means you won't need X and can safely, or safely enough, make Y your chief priority).

Up to you, of course - I'm fine either way. But I don't think it will necessarily play out as you think.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

@Edgar Allan Pillow is growing soft. With an option to buy 10 players in this auction you could've knocked out 5 and they would still be able to build a great side, and maybe it will make the teams not as stars-packed as they already are.

They have a 20 player squad! with an average of 4 more upgrades per person they can lose 5 easily. 2 means nothing, take @Downcast for example who lost Romario and R.Carlos and it's considered a blow. He still has Maradona AND Puskas, and he can take his pick of the striker between Vieri(which he already has), or one from the pool like Pele, Suarez, Ronaldo(Fenomeno), Henry, Sanchez and many more if you go down a tier. And Carlos can be replaced with Cabrini, Santos, Lizarazu etc..
Not bad options, and with such a deep pool the 2 player injury just doesn't change a thing. Every position has a very very deep pool to pick from, and with 20 player squads you don't even need to buy too many to replace injured players, you should have a roster strong enough.

Lets take worst(or close to worst) case scenario for a team. If you have @Chesterlestreet lose Thuram, Matthews, Charlton, Falcao & Moore.
You buy 1 of Platini/Rivaldo/Pele/Laudrup for the #10 role. with 4 of them in the same role/won't get two picked by one managers, you'd probably be able to get one for 10-15m.(Charlton)
Buy one of Bergomi/Santos for 20-30m should be enough as some teams won't need RB upgrade. (Thuram)
Matthews can easily be replaced by Cristiano/Nedved/Figo/Best
Neeskens, Keane, Rijkaard, Seedorf, Scholes - that's just the tip from the midfielders pool. (Falcao)
CBs are a lot of fun too in this pool, Stam/Nesta/Rio/Figueroa/Desailly/Kohler etc etc..(Moore)

with 3-4 top options at each position and 3-4 very good options at each positions, plus the players they already have in their roster who aren't too bad either, I'd say you can injure/suspend 4-5 players easily to make the team reshuffle a bit and have more fun instead of having a final with Messi-Cruyff-Ronaldo attack vs Puskas-Maradona-Ronaldo attacks.

 

[Moby]

@Aldo

Ready to participate in the next draft?

Always

 

[Chesterlestreet]

with 3-4 top options at each position and 3-4 very good options at each positions, plus the players they already have in their roster who aren't too bad either, I'd say you can injure/suspend 4-5 players easily to make the team reshuffle a bit and have more fun instead of having a final with Messi-Cruyff-Ronaldo attack vs Puskas-Maradona-Ronaldo attacks.

Both the quality of the players and the player types people have as "squad players" vary, though, so I don't know how fair it would be to suspend 5 players if this was simply done by randomization.

I agree, of course, that the bold part is dull as feck - but hey, it's an all-time draft. If it's not the above, it's a variation of it - even with half a dozen suspensions, there won't be any truly original choices on display. You could, at a stretch, argue that it could mean that players below that tier get to shine in a final - but it seems a bit artificial to me. The pool is what the pool is, so to speak.

And a random 5 man suspension here, with only four managers left, could easily result in effectively deciding the whole thing straight away - someone could get very lucky in that scenario.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Always

Good to see you back, man.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

Both the quality of the players and the player types people have as "squad players" vary, though, so I don't know how fair it would be to suspend 5 players if this was simply done by randomization.

I agree, of course, that the bold part is dull as feck - but hey, it's an all-time draft. If it's not the above, it's a variation of it - even with half a dozen suspensions, there won't be any truly original choices on display. You could, at a stretch, argue that it could mean that players below that tier get to shine in a final - but it seems a bit artificial to me. The pool is what the pool is, so to speak.

And a random 5 man suspension here, with only four managers left, could easily result in effectively deciding the whole thing straight away - someone could get very lucky in that scenario.

The thing is, with 2 players injured you really get nothing. Because with 100m and when you can upgrade Romario to Ronaldo and Roberto Carlos to Santos and still have enough money for another player or two, it really does nothing. The 5 player ban is random, but 4 very important rounds of the drafting was random too and I think it's part of this draft's spirit. These drafts really lost a bit in terms of arguing whose the better player or what is the best system when playing only top top players, so at least we could have a laugh along the way with having your team slaughtered sideways and live in constant fear. That's why I think the Sheep draft is eventually the best kind because you walk into it knowing it's going to be a big laugh and you don't care about getting sheep.

 

[Ecstatic]

Not sure it will, actually.

The need to prepare for three possible scenarios (and beyond) could potentially make the bidding more spicy. If you know who you're up against, there are certain variables you can ignore - at least short-term.

And the likelihood of anyone being in a position to use the actual bids to feck up their opponent is slim, I'd say. Whether it gets spicy or not will depend - mainly - on whether people go for the same targets or not (as per usual). And, as suggested, some of those wars might simply go out the window if you know who you'll play (because that means you won't need X and can safely, or safely enough, make Y your chief priority).

Up to you, of course - I'm fine either way. But I don't think it will necessarily play out as you think.

In theory, it will necessarily spices up the bidding process because you can't be only focus on your business plan and have to take into account the choices made by your opponent.

Double or nothing. If 2 opposing managers play the 'waiting game'...

 

[Chesterlestreet]

The thing is, with 2 players injured you really get nothing. Because with 100m and when you can upgrade Romario to Ronaldo and Roberto Carlos to Santos and still have enough money for another player or two, it really does nothing. The 5 player ban is random, but 4 very important rounds of the drafting was random too and I think it's part of this draft's spirit. These drafts really lost a bit in terms of arguing whose the better player or what is the best system when playing only top top players, so at least we could have a laugh along the way with having your team slaughtered sideways and live in constant fear. That's why I think the Sheep draft is eventually the best kind because you walk into it knowing it's going to be a big laugh and you don't care about getting sheep.

I certainly don't disagree with any of that, generally - but I honestly don't think it would be an improvement on this particular draft, at this stage, to introduce even more randomness: As I said above, doing so could be entertaining - but it could also be very anticlimatic if said randomness doesn't do anything beyond effectively deciding the outcome. GOATs are boring - but a one sided affair featuring GOATs is even more boring.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

n theory, it will necessarily spices up the bidding process because you can't be only focus on your business plan and have to take into account the choices made by your opponent.

It doesn't necessarily work that way, though. It depends entirely on which areas your opponent needs to upgrade. If you can realistically do something do feck him up in that regard, then yes - that could be spicy.

If you can't, though - it won't be spicy at all.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

I certainly don't disagree with any of that, generally - but I honestly don't think it would be an improvement on this particular draft, at this stage, to introduce even more randomness: As I said above, doing so could be entertaining - but it could also be very anticlimatic if said randomness doesn't do anything beyond effectively deciding the outcome. GOATs are boring - but a one sided affair featuring GOATs is even more boring.

Yeah, obviously hypothetically you could lose the Muller,Thuram,Moore,Charlton&Matthews and Downcast can lose Brown, Vieri, Monti, Rep & Sorin and it would be very unfair and you'd have no chance against him. Maybe it could be done in a better way say 5 starting players from the last match. I get what you're saying though, I feel like I'd be entertained by that even at this stage as a participant but it's different for any individual.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Yeah, obviously hypothetically you could lose the Muller,Thuram,Moore,Charlton&Matthews and Downcast can lose Brown, Vieri, Monti, Rep & Sorin and it would be very unfair and you'd have no chance against him. Maybe it could be done in a better way say 5 starting players from the last match. I get what you're saying though, I feel like I'd be entertained by that even at this stage as a participant but it's different for any individual.

If I ever get around to doing the Bamboozle draft, there's one principle I'll definitely go for: Randomness - yes. But there should always be a chance of bouncing back - in one way or another - from random setbacks. In other words, sheer randomness shouldn't necessarily be the decider.

The above is taken care of here, as it stands - you can recover from the blows (by buying replacements - which might range from easy to impossible, depending on precisely what you need, but at least you do have a chance): But if you lose half your XI, there's no chance of bouncing back. There's no way you can set up a team with a fighting chance against a manager who was considerably less unlucky.

So, the hilarity of possible meltdowns is outweighed by the tedium of having completely one-sided matches.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

If I ever get around to doing the Bamboozle draft, there's one principle I'll definitely go for: Randomness - yes. But there should always be a chance of bouncing back - in one way or another - from random setbacks. In other words, sheer randomness shouldn't necessarily be the decider.

The above is taken care of here, as it stands - you can recover from the blows (by buying replacements - which might range from easy to impossible, depending on precisely what you need, but at least you do have a chance): But if you lose half your XI, there's no chance of bouncing back. There's no way you can set up a team with a fighting chance against a manager who was considerably less unlucky.

So, the hilarity of possible meltdowns is outweighed by the tedium of having completely one-sided matches.

Yeah that's why maybe it needs to be five starting players for both players or something

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Another thing to consider is that this is, per definition, a Reality draft - and suddenly losing half your XI isn't very realistic. It smacks more of Bamboozle than Reality. If you remove 5 random players from the starting XI, you're still left with a possible (significant) imbalance in terms of what people already have (both starters and squad).

Anyway - there will be other drafts, and plenty of chances to do this or that. Personally, I think that any sort of non-GOAT/top tier focus is impossible with an all-time pool. You need much narrower ones in order to get that.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

I'd say you can injure/suspend 4-5 players easily to make the team reshuffle a bit and have more fun instead of having a final with Messi-Cruyff-Ronaldo attack vs Puskas-Maradona-Ronaldo attacks.

It's a turn of luck, I suppose. Pele and Maradona could have been suspended as easily as Carlos and Romario. Just put it down to luck of the team.

Though I agree with your sentiment, this draft was supposed to be a light break after the intense drafts of before...a chance to relax and let your GOAT muppet out. So a Pele/Maradona final will be in line with what is expected, tbh!

 

[Ecstatic]

@Edgar Allan Pillow

The draw before or after the auction process?

 

[Pat_Mustard]

It's a turn of luck, I suppose. Pele and Maradona could have been suspended as easily as Carlos and Romario. Just put it down to luck of the team.

Though I agree with your sentiment, this draft was supposed to be a light break after the intense drafts of before...a chance to relax and let your GOAT muppet out. So a Pele/Maradona final will be in line with what is expected, tbh!

Its worked well mate. Its been good fun and there's been no stupidly heated match threads.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

It's a turn of luck, I suppose. Pele and Maradona could have been suspended as easily as Carlos and Romario. Just put it down to luck of the team.

Though I agree with your sentiment, this draft was supposed to be a light break after the intense drafts of before...a chance to relax and let your GOAT muppet out. So a Pele/Maradona final will be in line with what is expected, tbh!

If that's the case than well done

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

If that's the case than well done

Well you should participate in next draft. Quite long time since you played!

 

[Ecstatic]

I'll announce them match-up's in a bit. That should spice up the bidding war.

Confirmed, Sir?

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Confirmed, Sir?

No. Carry on. I'll announce it after. Build a team to your hearts content.

 

[Ecstatic]

No. Carry on. I'll announce it after. Build a team to your hearts content.

As you want

 

[harms]

TEAMS THROUGH TO SEMI FINALS (pre-auction):


Downcast - 1. Wes Brown 2. Scirea 3. Roberto Carlos 4. Puskas 5. Tardelli 6. Maradona 7. L. Monti 8. Rattin (20m) 9. Ruggeri (46m) 10. Sorin (10m) 11. Kempes (10m) 12. Areola (20m) 13. Conti (10m) 14. Vieri (10m) 15. Fillol (20m) 16. Alessandro Mazzola (20m) 17. Rep (10m) 18. Reuter (14m) 19. Ardiles (10m) 20. Careca (10m) 21) Matthäus (37m) 22) Romario (23m) 23) Ferrara (10m)

Chesterlestreet - 1. T. Motta 2. L. Thuram 3. B. Moore 4. J. Santamaría 5. D. De Gea 6. B. Charlton 7. K-H. Förster 8. Albertini(10m) 9. Law (38m) 10. Briegel (30m) 11. Kaltz (30m) 12. Greaves (20m) 13. Wim Jansen (10m) 14. R. Donadoni (10m) 15. T. Cubillas (10m) 16. M. Preud'homme (20m) 17. T. Finney (20m) 18. Guardiola (12m) 19) G. Müller (25m) 20) Falcão (25m) 21) Matthews (20m)

Invictus - 1. O Hargreaves 2. Redondo 3. Nesta 4. Brehme 5. Jairzinho 6. Ronaldinho 7. Varela 8. Vasović (27m) 9. Nordahl (20m) 10. Zizinho (20m) 11. Kahn (25m) 12. Puyol (12m) 13. J. Andrade (20m) 14. Rivera (20m) 15. Carvajal (10m) 16. Riva (20m) 17. Zenga (20m) 18. Gordillo (10m) 19) Di Stefano (24m) 20) Facchetti (24m) 21) Garrincha (22m)

harms - 1. Éder Assis 2. Luis Suárez Miramontes 3. Cafu 4. J. Masopust 5. Messi 6. Chumpitaz 7. Seeler 8. Kante (30m) 9. Koeman (20m) 10. Maier (20m) 11. Evra (20m) 12. Boniek (25m) 13. Dzajic (45m) 14. Perfumo (10m) 15. Zito (20m) 16. Demyanenko (10m) 17. Bonhof (10m) 18) Maldini (30m) 19) Van Basten (30m) 20) Cannavaro (10m)


Player Pool for Reinforcements (after QF Auction):


Joga bonito - 1. Carrick 3. Burgnich 5. Rivelino 7. Griezmann 8. Dino Zoff (20m) 9. Bossis (37m) 10. Coluna (25m) 12. Stielike (32m) 13. Sarosi (20m) 14. Van der Sar (20m) 15. Littbarski (10m) 16. Haan (14m)

Mazhar13 - 1. M Le Tissier 2. Gento 4. Pirri 6. Vierchowod 8. Neuer (20m) 9. Shevchenko (32m) 10. Zambrotta (32m) 11. Lato (10m) 12. Hamrin (22m) 13. Cerezo (20m) 14. J.A. Camacho (30m) 15. V. Andrade (22m) 16. Rosato (22m)

Cal? - 1. M Scholl 8. Zlatan (15m) 9. Kroos (55m) 10. Schmeichel (27m) 11. Mascherano (32m) 12. Giggs (17m) 13. Pirlo (12m) 14. Rossi (10m) 15. Bergkamp (10m) 16. Drogba (10m) 17. Socrates (18m)

RedTiger/Marty - 1. A di Livio 2. K-H. Schnellinger 6. W. Overath 8. Banks(22 m) 9. Varane(22m) 10. Effenberg (20m) 11. Del Piero (42m) 12. Kaka (20m) 13. Barnes (10m) 14. Stojkovic (10m) 15. A. Hansen (14m) 16. Rensenbrink (10m) 17. Deschamps (32m)

Tuppet - 1. B Schneider 3. D. Santos 6. M Laudrup 7. Robson 8. Ter Stegen (37m) 9. Marzolini (27m) 10. Souness (30m) 11. Yashin (31m) 14. Hazard (10m)

DavidG - 1. Petit. 2. Hugo Sanchez 5. Costacurta 6. Didi 7. Tresor 8. Moreno (30m) 10.Buffon (28m) 11. Pedernera (24m) 12. Bellerin (10m) 13. Stiles (20m) 14. Marcelo (10m)

Sjor - 1. Camoranesi 2. Schweinsteiger 3. Ferdinand 5. Courtois 7. Blokhin 8. Elkjaer (10m) 9. Vidic (43m) 10. Luis Enrique(17m) 11. Gerets (37m) 12. T. Müller (10m) 13. Kopa (33m) 14. Amoros (50m) 15. Carvalho (10m)

ctp - 1. Ginola 2. Netzer 3. Carlos Alberto 5. Kocsis 7. S. Busquets 8. Júnior (32m) 9. Stam (50m) 10. Trapp (20m) 11. Czibor (37m) 12. Boateng (24m) 13. Blakenburg (10m) 14. F Water (20m) 15. Cantona (10m)

Skizzo/Pat - 1. Solskjaer 2. Van Hanegem 3. Kohler 4. Henry 5. Verratti 6. Rijkaard 7. Schuster 8. Cabrini (80m) 9. McGrain (10m) 10. Totti (43m) 11. Jennings (20m) 12. Schiaffino (27m) 13. Simonsen (17m) 14. Olsen (10m) 15) Cruyff (26m) 16) Passarella (21m) 17) McGrath (10m) 18) Dani Alves (10m)

Raees - 1. D Baggio 2. Figo 3. Vogts 4. Best 5. J. Nasazzi 6. Neeskens 7. Blanc 8. Piola (20m) 9. Liedholm (20m) 10. D. Da Guia (20m) 11. Rico (30m) 12. Lizarazu (55m) 13. Tostão (16m) 14. Shesternyov (10m) 15. Kubala(39m) 16) Desailly (30m) 17) Rummenige (15m) 18) Zico (12m) 19) Sammer (12m)

P-Nut - 1. Ince 2. Batistuta 3. Baresi 4. Ronaldo (fenomeno) 5. Gentile 6. Platini 7. Vieira 8. Maicon (10m) 9. L. King (10m) 10. Oblak (35m) 11. Cole (37m) 12. Scholes (26m) 13. Makélélé (30m) 14. Weah (30m) 15. Thiago Silva (15m) 16. Bale (10m) 17) Keane (25m) 18) Pogba (10m) 19) Hierro (14m) 20) Lahm (10m) 21) Stoichkov (10m)

Enigma - 1. Ze Roberto 2. Rivaldo 3. Figueroa 4. Bergomi 5. Pele 6. Davids 7. Tigana 8. Leno (35m) 9. Seedorf (34m) 10. G. Meazza (26m) 11. Suarez (47m) 12. Sagnol (10m) 13. Dasayev (20m) 14. Bessonov(10m) 15. W Schulz (28m) 16) N. Santos (22m) 17) Cr. Ronaldo (28m) 18) Nedved (10m) 19) Xavi (10m)

[/QUOTE]
Threadmark, please?

 

[harms]

N. Santos - harms - 12:00 - 20m

 

[Ecstatic]

It has started?

 

[Ecstatic]

N. Santos - harms - 12:00 - 20m
Baresi - Downcast - 12:23 - 10m

 

[harms]

N. Santos - harms - 12:00 - 20m
Baresi - harms - 12:31 - 22m

@Downcast

 

[Ecstatic]

N. Santos - harms - 12:00 - 20m
Baresi - harms - 12:31 - 22m
Figueroa - Downcast - 12:42 - 10m

 

[Chesterlestreet]

N. Santos - harms - 12:00 - 20m
Baresi - harms - 12:31 - 22m
Figueroa - Downcast - 12:42 - 10m
Cruyff - Chester - 12:44 - 10m
Rijkaard - Chester - 12:44 - 10m

 

[Ecstatic]

N. Santos - harms - 12:00 - 20m
Baresi - harms - 12:31 - 22m
Figueroa - Downcast - 12:42 - 10m
Cruyff - Chester - 12:44 - 10m
Rijkaard - Chester - 12:44 - 10m
Pelé - Downcast - 13:01 - 10m

 

[Invictus]

N. Santos - harms - 12:00 - 20m
Baresi - harms - 12:31 - 22m
Figueroa - Downcast - 12:42 - 10m
Cruyff - Chester - 12:44 - 10m
Rijkaard - Chester - 12:44 - 10m
Pelé - Invictus - 13:08 - 20m

 

[Invictus]

@Downcast

 

[harms]

Pele was invalid pick anyway, @Downcast , minimum bid on him is 20m

 

[harms]

N. Santos - harms - 12:00 - 20m
Baresi - harms - 12:31 - 22m
Figueroa - Downcast - 12:42 - 10m
Cruyff - Chester - 12:44 - 10m
Pelé - Invictus - 13:08 - 20m
Rijkaard - harms - 13:19 - 15m

@Chesterlestreet

 

[Chesterlestreet]

N. Santos - harms - 12:00 - 20m
Baresi - harms - 12:31 - 22m
Figueroa - Downcast - 12:42 - 10m
Cruyff - Chester - 12:44 - 10m
Pelé - Invictus - 13:08 - 20m
Rijkaard - Chester - 13:21 - 20m

@harms

 

[Ecstatic]

Pele was invalid pick anyway, @Downcast , minimum bid on him is 20m

Sorry, I'm ready to spend more than 20m on Pelé in any case

 

[harms]

N. Santos - harms - 12:00 - 20m
Baresi - harms - 12:31 - 22m
Figueroa - Downcast - 12:42 - 10m
Cruyff - Chester - 12:44 - 10m
Pelé - Invictus - 13:08 - 20m
Rijkaard - harms - 13:26 - 30m

@Chesterlestreet