The Facts You Think to be Undisputedly True in Football Which Has Not Been Talked about Enough?

[JeffFromHK]

My 2 cents:

1. Players playing in La Liga are favored in those Fifa/ Ballon'Or elections

2. Teams from La Liga are favored by the referees in European competitions

 

[fergiewherearethou]

I bet this has something to do with the pen from last night, right?

 

[Someone]

My 2 cents:

1. Players playing in La Liga are favored in those Fifa/ Ballon'Or elections

This one is true but it's due to the massive lobbying done by the spanish teams. Most other to european clubs don't give a shit.

 

[Shakesy]

Some Impressive Capitalisation in that Title

 

[Daslogisch]

PL football would be vastly inferior to other European leagues if not for all the money and therefore foreign players involved.

 

[Solius]

Some Impressive Capitalisation in that Title

'about' didn't quite make the cut.

 

[Dominos]

Given the lax drug testing in football, money in the game and benefits in terms of endurance and recovery, it makes very little sense to think PEDs aren't rife in the game.

On the other hand there would surely be some whistleblowers amongst the ex-pros etc. if everyone was juicing so who knows.

 

[Shakesy]

'about' didn't quite make the cut.

~\_(`°/)_/~

 

[WeePat]

PL football would be vastly inferior to other European leagues if not for all the money and therefore foreign players involved.

Wrong thread. Please stick to the topic.

 

[Shakesy]

Wrong thread. Please stick to the topic.

Yeah! We need to talk more About La Liga favouritism, because it needs talking About (see what I did there @Solius)

 

[BigDycheEnergy]

1. Players playing in La Liga are favored in those Fifa/ Ballon'Or elections

I don't think that this is true. It's just that C. Ronaldo and Messi spent the best part of their careers playing for La Liga teams. You can't really say that they didn't deserve it.

La Liga has "won" 23 Ballon d'Ors, but 10 of them are from Messi and C. Ronaldo. Serie A has 16 Ballon d'Ors. The Bundesliga has 9. If anything, I think the real issue is that the English top division doesn't get enough Ballon d'Ors! Just 6(one of them being Ronaldo) in total.

 

[Oranges038]

Referees should punish foul throws everytime. It's a simple bloody thing, almost every throw is a foul throw these days. Even the guys who launch them into the box never stop at the line.

And how the 6 second rule for goalkeepers is never enforced.

 

[Kinsella]

I don't think that this is true. It's just that C. Ronaldo and Messi spent the best part of their careers playing for La Liga teams. You can't really say that they didn't deserve it.

La Liga has "won" 23 Ballon d'Ors, but 10 of them are from Messi and C. Ronaldo. Serie A has 16 Ballon d'Ors. The Bundesliga has 9. If anything, I think the real issue is that the English top division doesn't get enough Ballon d'Ors! Just 6(one of them being Ronaldo) in total.

That's easily explained. England/the English top division, just hasn't produced or attracted as many truly great players as the other leagues have.

 

[BigDycheEnergy]

That's easily explained. England/the English top division, just hasn't produced or attracted as many truly great players as the other leagues have.

You're probably right.

I'm just happy that 4 out of the 6 are United players and that the 1 Ballon d'Or winner Liverpool has is Michael Owen

 

[Gehrman]

My 2 cents:

1. Players playing in La Liga are favored in those Fifa/ Ballon'Or elections

2. Teams from La Liga are favored by the referees in European competitions

Dunno, I mean Ronnie and Messi's prime years were in La Liga. There is perhaps mainly Lewandowski who had as good claim as any for both the 2020 and 20201, otherwise I can't think of someone from another league who deserved to win it. Benzema absolutely deserves it too. When Ronnie in his prime played for us, he made both 2nd and winner of the prize. I'd say as good as Michael Owen was in his brief prime i'm not sure he deserved to win it.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Dunno, I mean Ronnie and Messi's prime years who were in La Liga. There is perhaps mainly Lewandowski who had as good claim as any for both the 2020 and 20201, otherwise I can't think of someone from another league who deserved to win it. Benzema absolutely deserves it too. When Ronnie in his prime played for us, he made both 2nd and winner of the prize. I'd say as good as Michael Owen was in his brief prime i'm not sure he deserved to win it.

VVD 2019

 

[Eplel]

In european competitions, Italy and Spain favour each other when it comes to refereeing.

 

[Gehrman]

VVD 2019

Think we already discussed this. I'll agree to disagree.

 

[Berbasbullet]

Referees should punish foul throws everytime. It's a simple bloody thing, almost every throw is a foul throw these days. Even the guys who launch them into the box never stop at the line.

And how the 6 second rule for goalkeepers is never enforced.

Weirdly a referee told me yesterday the 6 second rule has been abolished.

 

[Kinsella]

You're probably right.

I'm just happy that 4 out of the 6 are United players and that the 1 Ballon d'Or winner Liverpool has is Michael Owen

Yeah, it's one of the reasons why United are the biggest club in England - its player history is just far superior to the other clubs in the league.

It's also one of the reasons why Real Madrid and Barcelona place higher that United though, as between them they've essentially had the greatest players in the history of the game, bar Pele, playing for them at some point.

 

[RedCurry]

Everyone’s on PEDs

 

[Oranges038]

Weirdly a referee told me yesterday the 6 second rule has been abolished.

According to the FA it's still there, just like time wasting, foul throws and kicking the ball away it's a rule that is just not applied properly.

I don't mind 10-15 seconds here or there, but sometimes it encroaches on a minute or more.

Spoiler

2. Indirect Free Kick

An indirect free kick is awarded if a player:

• plays in a dangerous manner
• impedes the progress of an opponent without any contact being made
• is guilty of dissent, using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or action(s) or other verbal offences
• prevents the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from the hands or kicks or attempts to kick the ball when the goalkeeper is in the process of releasing it
• initiates a deliberate trick for the ball to be passed (including from a free kick or goal kick) to the goalkeeper with the head, chest, knee etc. to circumvent the Law, whether or not the goalkeeper touches the ball with the hands; the goalkeeper is penalised if responsible for initiating the deliberate trick
• commits any other offence, not mentioned in the Laws, for which play is stopped to caution or send off a player

An indirect free kick is awarded if a goalkeeper, inside their penalty area, commits any of the following offences:

• controls the ball with the hand/arm for more than six seconds before releasing it
• touches the ball with the hand/arm after releasing it and before it has touched another player
• touches the ball with the hand/arm, unless the goalkeeper has clearly kicked or attempted to kick the ball to release it into play, after:
  • it has been deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper by a team-mate
  • receiving it directly from a throw-in taken by a team-mate

A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball with the hand(s) when:

• the ball is between the hands or between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or by touching it with any part of the hands or arms except if the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save
• holding the ball in the outstretched open hand
• bouncing it on the ground or throwing it in the air

A goalkeeper cannot be challenged by an opponent when in control of the ball with the hand(s).

 

[Red the Bear]

PL football would be vastly inferior to other European leagues if not for all the money and therefore foreign players involved.

They did just fine in the 80s, don't be daft.

 

[Berbasbullet]

According to the FA it's still there, just like time wasting, foul throws and kicking the ball away it's a rule that is just not applied properly.

I don't mind 10-15 seconds here or there, but sometimes it encroaches on a minute or more.

Spoiler

2. Indirect Free Kick

An indirect free kick is awarded if a player:

• plays in a dangerous manner
• impedes the progress of an opponent without any contact being made
• is guilty of dissent, using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or action(s) or other verbal offences
• prevents the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from the hands or kicks or attempts to kick the ball when the goalkeeper is in the process of releasing it
• initiates a deliberate trick for the ball to be passed (including from a free kick or goal kick) to the goalkeeper with the head, chest, knee etc. to circumvent the Law, whether or not the goalkeeper touches the ball with the hands; the goalkeeper is penalised if responsible for initiating the deliberate trick
• commits any other offence, not mentioned in the Laws, for which play is stopped to caution or send off a player

An indirect free kick is awarded if a goalkeeper, inside their penalty area, commits any of the following offences:

• controls the ball with the hand/arm for more than six seconds before releasing it
• touches the ball with the hand/arm after releasing it and before it has touched another player
• touches the ball with the hand/arm, unless the goalkeeper has clearly kicked or attempted to kick the ball to release it into play, after:
  • it has been deliberately kicked to the goalkeeper by a team-mate
  • receiving it directly from a throw-in taken by a team-mate

A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball with the hand(s) when:

• the ball is between the hands or between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or by touching it with any part of the hands or arms except if the ball rebounds from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save
• holding the ball in the outstretched open hand
• bouncing it on the ground or throwing it in the air

A goalkeeper cannot be challenged by an opponent when in control of the ball with the hand(s).

Interesting, literally a qualified ref told me it had been abolished. Shows what they know

 

[caid]

My 2 cents:

1. Players playing in La Liga are favored in those Fifa/ Ballon'Or elections

2. Teams from La Liga are favored by the referees in European competitions

Think 2nd is true. Not so much favoured as champions league and international tournaments are refereed to a similar standard. A weaker, more cynical standard.

 

[Red the Bear]

Dunno, I mean Ronnie and Messi's prime years were in La Liga. There is perhaps mainly Lewandowski who had as good claim as any for both the 2020 and 20201, otherwise I can't think of someone from another league who deserved to win it. Benzema absolutely deserves it too. When Ronnie in his prime played for us, he made both 2nd and winner of the prize. I'd say as good as Michael Owen was in his brief prime i'm not sure he deserved to win it.

I guess you could make a case for beckham back in our treble season (he would probably win it by our modern standards) and Henry.

 

[SalfordRed18]

PL football would be vastly inferior to other European leagues if not for all the money and therefore foreign players involved.

Well duh? This is hardly groundbreaking. If you took the money out of any of the top leagues the quality would go down.

 

[Piratesoup]

Everyone’s on PEDs

This right here

 

[Harry190]

We often forget how young those players are, even the 'older' ones and how impressionable they are.

 

[Member 125398]

Football is fast becoming who is the best at shopping(for players).

 

[Zippycup]

Asthma is widely misdiagnosed within the game.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Liverpool FC and their blatant doping with Inhalers causing their on-off cycle.

 

[Mmxxii]

My 2 cents:

1. Players playing in La Liga are favored in those Fifa/ Ballon'Or elections

2. Teams from La Liga are favored by the referees in European competitions

In FA Cup matches, the craving for giant killing stories often creates an environment for referees to be biased against big teams in favour of minnows.

 

[caid]

In FA Cup matches, the craving for giant killing stories often creates an environment for referees to be biased against big teams in favour of minnows.

I think thats true in general. Narrative is important. Goes beyond referees

 

[Jack-C20]

Defenders are way bigger divers than attackers.

 

[JeffFromHK]

I don't think that this is true. It's just that C. Ronaldo and Messi spent the best part of their careers playing for La Liga teams. You can't really say that they didn't deserve it.

La Liga has "won" 23 Ballon d'Ors, but 10 of them are from Messi and C. Ronaldo. Serie A has 16 Ballon d'Ors. The Bundesliga has 9. If anything, I think the real issue is that the English top division doesn't get enough Ballon d'Ors! Just 6(one of them being Ronaldo) in total.

Since 1999, La Liga got 16 Ballon d'Or winners, EPL got 2 winners, Series A got 3 winners, PSG got 1 (though it was Messi), bundesliga got ZERO
Whereas La Liga won UCL 11 times, EPL won 6 times, Series A won 3 times, bundesliga won 3 times
La Liga is over-represented in terms of Ballon d'Or winners

In past 20 years, you only hear players from La Liga "robbing" the Ballon d"or from non-La Liga players, but never wise versa, and a lower standard is required for a player from La Liga to win the award than a non-La Liga player. You only need a worldie performance at La Liga alone to win Ballon d"or even if you do poorly in European and International tournaments, but if you only perform well in your English or German league, sorry, you are not qualified to win.

In 1999 Rivaldo won the Ballon d'Or for carrying Barcelona to top 4 in La Liga and his Copa America performance while Barcelona was knocked out of UCL in group stage.
In 2000, Luis Figo got the Ballon d'Or while he wasn't the best player for the year, but since he had that famous transfer saga from barca to Real Madrid
In 2005, Ronaldinho won the Ballon d'Or scoring 9 goals in La Liga with Barcelona getting knocked out in round of 16 (him scoring 4 goals), since Barcelona won the La Liga and Ronaldinho was the poster boy of Barca.
In 2010, Messi won the Ballon d'Or for his La Liga performance alone though he kinda stinked in World Cup 2010, and Sneijder who carried Inter and Netherlands to UCL title and World Cup final was ranked 4th, since Series A was not as sexy as La Liga and Netherland is not as sexy as Argentina, Brazil or Spain.
And the famous Lewandowski failing to win Ballon d'Or since he is a Polish playing in Bundesliga, which is not sexy enough.
Henry is undisputedly Ballon D'or winning level player but he never did so since he played in EPL in his prime which was not sexy enough.

It is also not only about Ballon D'or winners, Bundesliga and EPL players are much harder to climb up in Ballon Or ladder.

In 2011-12, Chelsea won the UCL, and van Persie had a worldie performance at Arsenal (and subsequently at Man Utd), but the Ballon D'or's top 6 are all occupied by La Liga players and van perise was only ranked 9th in Ballond'or.
In 2012-13, it was a German UCL final, no international football, but anyway, German clubs only earned 2 spots in Ballon D'or top 10, and La Liga got 5 spots. Gareth Bale was in beast mode for Tottenham but he was 12th in Ballond'or, only after he went to Real Madrid, his strength got recognized and improved to peak at 6th
In 2013-14, Suarez was in beast mode carrying Liverpool alone, but he was ranked 19th in 2013 Ballon d'Or and was NOT even nominated for 2014 for biting. But after he went to Barcelona, his same-level (or arguably inferior) performance earned him consistent 4th and 5th spots.

Check how undisputedly world class La Liga players and non-Liga players peaked in Ballon d"or rankings:

Salah - 5th
Muller - 6th (2nd best 13th)
Lahm - 6th
van Persie - 7th
De Bruyne - 8th
Terry - 10th
Sweinsteiger - 15th
Vidic - 16th (as a defender winning EPL player of the year)
Thiago Silva - 21st
Scholes - 23th

They are surely not inferior players to the below "La Liga" players who peaked higher:

Cannavaro -1st (with due respect, he had a great 2006 World Cup, but the fact that he played for Real Madrid when the election occurred mattered)
Deco - 2nd
Carlos - 2nd
Neymar - 3rd
Grizemann - 3rd
Falcao - 5th (again with due respect, he had a great 2012 but he was a pure goal scorer who was outscored by van Persie who was a more complete player but ranked 9th)

 

[JeffFromHK]

We often forget how young those players are, even the 'older' ones and how impressionable they are.

Yes, we often label those players at 30 or 31 as "old players"
But if you walk on the street as a 30 or 31, people call you a young folk and in workplaces people label a 30 years old young doctor/lawyer/politican/businessman/whatever as a young doctor/lawyer/politican/businessman/whatever

 

[JeffFromHK]

I bet this has something to do with the pen from last night, right?

No.

You can try to remember a single UCL knock out tie in which Man Utd knocked out a non EPL team with a wrong crucial referee decision in our favor in past 20 years. I bet you can basically recall none (the closet call is that PSG penalty but it was arguably correct in the end).

It is also a very rare occurrence for other EPL teams too.

But you can count numerous games in which Real Madrid or Barcelona knocking out other teams with weird referee decisions in their favor.
Barcelona vs Milan
Barcelona vs Arsenal
Barcelona vs PSG
Barcelona vs Chelsea
Real Madrid vs Man Utd and their countless offside goals in their multiple UCL wins... and so on

 

[Flying_Heckfish]

Football is a contact sport, except when it concerns goalies.

 

[Gio]

Since 1999, La Liga got 16 Ballon d'Or winners, EPL got 2 winners, Series A got 3 winners, PSG got 1 (though it was Messi), bundesliga got ZERO
Whereas La Liga won UCL 11 times, EPL won 6 times, Series A won 3 times, bundesliga won 3 times
La Liga is over-represented in terms of Ballon d'Or winners

In past 20 years, you only hear players from La Liga "robbing" the Ballon d"or from non-La Liga players, but never wise versa, and a lower standard is required for a player from La Liga to win the award than a non-La Liga player. You only need a worldie performance at La Liga alone to win Ballon d"or even if you do poorly in European and International tournaments, but if you only perform well in your English or German league, sorry, you are not qualified to win.

In 1999 Rivaldo won the Ballon d'Or for carrying Barcelona to top 4 in La Liga and his Copa America performance while Barcelona was knocked out of UCL in group stage.
In 2000, Luis Figo got the Ballon d'Or while he wasn't the best player for the year, but since he had that famous transfer saga from barca to Real Madrid
In 2005, Ronaldinho won the Ballon d'Or scoring 9 goals in La Liga with Barcelona getting knocked out in round of 16 (him scoring 4 goals), since Barcelona won the La Liga and Ronaldinho was the poster boy of Barca.
In 2010, Messi won the Ballon d'Or for his La Liga performance alone though he kinda stinked in World Cup 2010, and Sneijder who carried Inter and Netherlands to UCL title and World Cup final was ranked 4th, since Series A was not as sexy as La Liga and Netherland is not as sexy as Argentina, Brazil or Spain.
And the famous Lewandowski failing to win Ballon d'Or since he is a Polish playing in Bundesliga, which is not sexy enough.
Henry is undisputedly Ballon D'or winning level player but he never did so since he played in EPL in his prime which was not sexy enough.

It is also not only about Ballon D'or winners, Bundesliga and EPL players are much harder to climb up in Ballon Or ladder.

In 2011-12, Chelsea won the UCL, and van Persie had a worldie performance at Arsenal (and subsequently at Man Utd), but the Ballon D'or's top 6 are all occupied by La Liga players and van perise was only ranked 9th in Ballond'or.
In 2012-13, it was a German UCL final, no international football, but anyway, German clubs only earned 2 spots in Ballon D'or top 10, and La Liga got 5 spots. Gareth Bale was in beast mode for Tottenham but he was 12th in Ballond'or, only after he went to Real Madrid, his strength got recognized and improved to peak at 6th
In 2013-14, Suarez was in beast mode carrying Liverpool alone, but he was ranked 19th in 2013 Ballon d'Or and was NOT even nominated for 2014 for biting. But after he went to Barcelona, his same-level (or arguably inferior) performance earned him consistent 4th and 5th spots.

Check how undisputedly world class La Liga players and non-Liga players peaked in Ballon d"or rankings:

Salah - 5th
Muller - 6th (2nd best 13th)
Lahm - 6th
van Persie - 7th
De Bruyne - 8th
Terry - 10th
Sweinsteiger - 15th
Vidic - 16th (as a defender winning EPL player of the year)
Thiago Silva - 21st
Scholes - 23th

They are surely not inferior players to the below "La Liga" players who peaked higher:

Cannavaro -1st (with due respect, he had a great 2006 World Cup, but the fact that he played for Real Madrid when the election occurred mattered)
Deco - 2nd
Carlos - 2nd
Neymar - 3rd
Grizemann - 3rd
Falcao - 5th (again with due respect, he had a great 2012 but he was a pure goal scorer who was outscored by van Persie who was a more complete player but ranked 9th)

I think you’re underplaying (a) the role of individual performances versus team achievements, and (b) not placing enough weight on international performances.

To give a few examples:

1999 - Rivaldo was almost a one-man band such was his performance level in carrying Barcelona to a La Liga title (they weren’t 4th) and dominated and won the Copa America. He was a long way ahead in the voting which further reflected what he was doing on the park every week.

2000 - The narrative around Figo’s move may have played a part, but it wasn’t the decisive factor. The award was given mainly on a combination of Euro 2000 and Champions League performances. Zidane was absolutely outstanding at Euro 2000, but just at the time of voting was sent off twice in the CL group stages as Juve crashed out. That’s what did him in, especially for journalists who are bigger on fair play. Even then there was only a ball hair between him and Figo whose performances across the 99/00 CL, Euro 2000 and 00/01 CL were consistently very good. The only players from the Premier League to register at Euro 2000 were Henry and Vieira and neither were going to usurp their teammate Zidane.

2001 - Owen won the award despite playing in the Premier League and despite the competition from Figo, Raul, Zidane and Rivaldo.

2002 - Carlos was 2nd because he was outstanding for Real Madrid and Brazil, winning both the Champions League and the World Cup. He assisted both of Real’s goals in the CL final and was unleashed as a wing-back for Brazil in their 3-5-2.

2004 - Deco’s second place was everything to do with what he did with Porto and nothing to do with Barcelona. Porto had won an improbable Champions League, after a UEFA cup the previous year, and he was their talisman.

2005 - Ronaldinho’s performances were off the charts. He only peaked for 3 years, but many rate him as one of the greatest of all time because his peak was so high. Worth noting that Lampard and Gerrard were 2nd and 3rd this year, but nobody jumps up and down about how they were robbed given the level of genius Ronaldinho was delivering every week.

2010 on - All the things I have said above about Ronaldinho could apply for Messi and Cristiano. If two players are operating in the rarefied echelons of the greatest of all time, then it’s going to be very difficult for anyone to defeat them.

What has changed over the decades is that week-to-week performances are more accessible to voters, whereas before 2000 journalists based proportionately more of their vote on what was done when everyone was watching in continental and international competition. I don’t think that’s a La Liga thing, more the changing nature of media shifting the voting criteria. It just so happens that La Liga has benefited the most as that’s where Messi and Cristiano’s every performances were showcased to the world.