What? you're saying fixed games don't change things?
The Greatest Footballer of All Time
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
I remember watching it live in utter disbelief at what I was witnessing. I *think* that was my first time watching a fixed match.
I am saying that fixing one match (if that really happened) doesn't mean that is alright that Ronaldo won a single league title in 10+ years in Europe. And during his years on Italy, not only Juve won titles, but also Roma, Lazio and Milano, so likely Juve wasn't fixing the league (like they did a few years later). Four different teams won the title there, but not Ronaldo.
The Brazilian leagues produced a production line of the worlds best players during his time. If the leagues were this so called hooror show they would not have been capable of producing so much world class players.
Couldn't give a flying one about Messi. He plays for both Barcelona and Argentina and I honestly couldn't be fecked if he was to hang up his boots not tomorrow but rather today.
My vote goes to Best.
So you don't think fixed matches change perspective? History doesn't care for anything but the winners, but for those that were around at the time, there will be asterisks next to 'winners' of the time.
Aside from that, in your '10+ years' have you factored in injuries and recovery? It's all well and good throwing a blanket number like that out there, but the circumstances should also be brought to light, too.
Yep, Del Piero should have re-taken the penalty, there's an Inter Player next to him when he's about to strike the ball
Best I've seen is Ronaldinho.
For me its the Brazilian Ronaldo, never seen Pele or Maradona so hard to compare them, Ronaldinho a close second as well.
Pele the greatest, Maradona the best
I agree on Ronaldo with @Revan. He really has an underwhelming trophy cabinet for someone who is considered as one of the best players in history. Many project his youth form on his full career and he certainly gets romanticized a lot. But mostly he is in the consideration because he is probably the most complete out-and-out striker - along with Van Basten, probably. Speed, balance, close control, dribbling, finishing, long distance shooting, headers... He is for strikers what Pele is for all footballers - the most balanced elite version of a player.
For me, he is in the tier three, although he and van Basten should've been even higher if not for the injuries
For me, he is in the tier three, although he and van Basten should've been even higher if not for the injuries
1. Pele, Messi, Maradona
2. Cruyff, Di Stefano, Beckenbauer
3. Platini, Puskas, C. Ronaldo, Eusebio, Best, Zico, Garrincha, Ronaldo, van Basten, Baresi, Figueroa, Matthaus
4. Zidane, Charlton, Xavi, Iniesta, Didi, Falcao, Moore, Rijkaard, Maldini, Scirea, Müller, Ronaldinho
2. Cruyff, Di Stefano, Beckenbauer
3. Platini, Puskas, C. Ronaldo, Eusebio, Best, Zico, Garrincha, Ronaldo, van Basten, Baresi, Figueroa, Matthaus
4. Zidane, Charlton, Xavi, Iniesta, Didi, Falcao, Moore, Rijkaard, Maldini, Scirea, Müller, Ronaldinho
aye this is probably the most controversial, but seeing him day in and day out when I grew up he was immense. It's more of a personal preference.
cheers tuppy
He treats the ball like you should treat a woman, with tender and delicate touches. I've been watching Pele and Maradona documentaries since last night and it gets me a tear in the eyes because they were so good, larger than life players.
Anyone who has CR7 better than Messi , let alone the goat, really does watch a different game to me.
Messi scores almost as many goals, creates goals for himself as opposed to being a flat track, on a plate, bully.
Seriously, i sincerely, wouldn't have CR7 in my top 10.
These days CR7 is just a better version of RVN, no shame in that but you wouldn't compare him to Messi just like you wouldn't compare RVN to Henry.
Messi scores almost as many goals, creates goals for himself as opposed to being a flat track, on a plate, bully.
Seriously, i sincerely, wouldn't have CR7 in my top 10.
These days CR7 is just a better version of RVN, no shame in that but you wouldn't compare him to Messi just like you wouldn't compare RVN to Henry.
I'm surprised that Jimmy Greaves hasn't been mentioned in this thread: the all-time leading goalscorer across Europe’s top five leagues.
Ronaldo may be soon to surpass this, but look at how many decades it will have taken for Greaves's record to have been broken.
Ronaldo may be soon to surpass this, but look at how many decades it will have taken for Greaves's record to have been broken.
Yep was the weekend beer talking. It is true that Messi would have been butchered back in the 70's or 80's. Maradonna had plenty of leg breaker challenges in his day. You can understand how a footballer would have been more prone to alcoholism in those days. It was basically a mix of MMA and football in those days. The reality is that there has never been a footballer who for a 5 or 6 year period has been able to beat 4 defenders in every 2 or 3 games to score a wonder goal apart from Messi. Ronaldinho did it for 2 seasons before deciding that the nightclub life was more fun. Fat Ronaldo did it for about 2 seasons before injury. CR7 is definitely up there but he doesn't have that ability to beat 4 players to score a Golazo every couple of games. He's a bit of a Pele in that sense. A different type of goalscoring genius. But I'd have a Messi, Ronaldinho, Maradona ahead of a Pele or a CR7 because there's nothing more exciting in the game than a player who can beat 4 defenders while finishing it off with a Golazo. Those are the kinds of players that inspire the next generation. Ryan Giggs is probably the main reason I became a die-hard at 12 years of age when before I was just a fan who watched the odd game with Strachan/Robson/Stapleton/Whiteside/Chocy/Sparkey/McGrath etc
in that case you could argue the case for Ravel as well. Supremely gifted but wasted their talent.
My pick has to be Maldini. A one club man playing 25 years in the first XI, 900+ appearances for club, 126 appearances for country, 26 major club trophies (including 5 CL), a leader, and legend...and those eyes!
Kane has a fair chance of surpassing them both if we're being objective
Some years back we had the same dicussion. I remember some posters from my dad's generation saying the greatest footballer Ever was Duncan Edwards. And a little below him...Best. Then Pele, Maradona and Messi and others.
The funny thing is Edwards has been mentioned as the greatest by so many non United supporters. Similarly with Best. Of course Edwards is little known outside of these shores.
Remember Jopub a Gooner agreeing with me about Best and Maradona being better than Messi.
The thing is these discussions are so subjective. I understand most Brazilians consider Garincha a greater player than Pele.
Many including Best rated DeStefano very highly then.
Think we are lucky to have seen so many great footballers. These are fun discussions.
Messi if not for injuries to a couple of teammates would have got that World Cup medal...no disrespect to Germany.
The funny thing is Edwards has been mentioned as the greatest by so many non United supporters. Similarly with Best. Of course Edwards is little known outside of these shores.
Remember Jopub a Gooner agreeing with me about Best and Maradona being better than Messi.
The thing is these discussions are so subjective. I understand most Brazilians consider Garincha a greater player than Pele.
Many including Best rated DeStefano very highly then.
Think we are lucky to have seen so many great footballers. These are fun discussions.
Messi if not for injuries to a couple of teammates would have got that World Cup medal...no disrespect to Germany.
Yeah, and most of mancunians support City.
You have a fair chance of making a decent and relevant post if we're being subjective.
Someone mentioned Keane as being greater than Charlton. I agree. But this is the problem of comparing players from different generations. Is it even realistic?
Okocha
For me there's very little room for discussion. In my mind Messi stands alone as the greatest of them all. Not just the amount of goals, but the quality of the goals, the quality of the opposition he's scored against, the assists, the quality of the assists, the skills, the dribbling, the vision, the consistency. I don't care that he hasn't won a world cup; for me the champions league is a stronger competition and the pinnacle of football, and I strongly believe Barcelona would beat any international team in history.
Cruyff's Ajax Amsterdam would have beaten anyone in history it could be said.
Personally I prefer Total Football to tiki-taka.
Personally I prefer Total Football to tiki-taka.
Nobody will ever beat Diego Maradona. The way he tore it up in World Cup Mexico was just something else. Why Messi has not been able to put in a shift like that is a bit bewildering but Maradona is the best for me, closely followed by Pele (probably on par).
The greatest player noone saw.
Messi amazes me. I completely get what you are saying about players who can do something special week in week out. I love football because of the special players, not because the team I follow wins things.
Same here. However the statement that Pelé wasn't good at constantly scoring amazing goals is ignorant at best, in fact of all the players I've watched he's the one who has scored the fewest amount of 'regular' goals. Almost all his goals have a moment of magic with either beating a plethora of defenders or an insane skill move. The guy you quoted basically doesn't look for much beyond dribbling which obviously isn't everything for an attacking player. And even in that, the fact that he equated Pelé to current day CR7 basically says everything he knows about these players.
Doing this at the age of 17 in a World Cup Knockout Game is pretty special, for anyone.
I repeat. That is a 17 year old there.
Your preaching to the converted.Same here. However the statement that Pelé wasn't good at constantly scoring amazing goals is ignorant at best, in fact of all the players I've watched he's the one who has scored the fewest amount of 'regular' goals. Almost all his goals have a moment of magic with either beating a plethora of defenders or an insane skill move. The guy you quoted basically doesn't look for much beyond dribbling which obviously isn't everything for an attacking player. And even in that, the fact that he equated Pelé to current day CR7 basically says everything he knows about these players.
Doing this at the age of 17 in a World Cup Knockout Game is pretty special, for anyone.
I repeat. That is a 17 year old there.
Lionel Messi.
Why?
Why?
Fat Ronaldo....
Possibly the most overrated goal of all time. Up there in the overrated stakes with Banks' save, Moore's tackle and Bergkamp v Argentina.
I repeat. That is a 17 year old there.
Pele is the only one that ticks every box.
No one I've seen is Maradona's equal. The skills of Messi but could make everyone about him play better. He took a meh Argentina side to 2 World Cup finals and won one of them. And he made Napoli double Italian champion back when the Serie A was the best league in the world.
Pele, Best and di Stefano were before my time.
Pele, Best and di Stefano were before my time.
The one that's rated highly is this one from the final:
17 years old, world cup final.
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Cryuff deserves to be in that list as well.
This is not a dig at Pele but the more highlights I see of him the more amazed I am by the claims that it was more difficult to score back then. He might have been a god among men at the time but just have a look at the defense.. and not just from the guys who are busy being embarrassed by Pele. A pub league team today is more organized than that lot.
While I definitely rate Maradona, I am not sure I would call a side that has Argentina's consensus two greatest defenders of all time in Passarella and Ruggeri and midfield/attackers that include Bochini, Burruchaga and Valdano as a "meh" side. Maradona didn't even score in the 3-2 final over Germany. Also don't underrate the other two of Ma-Gi-Ca and Carnevale made some big contributions as well.