He had a decent assist to write home about. You're right though, it does get my goat how other player's efforts are often needlessly sidelined in order to further elevate an individual.
The Greatest Footballer of All Time
- Thread starter Moby
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
Messi for me, but I was too young to watch Maradona, Pele, Di Stefano, etc.
Okay but you think Cristiano Ronaldo is an on plate flat track bully so no one can take you seriously either.
Loving that page.
How is it humanly possible to agree with a statement like that?
TIME TO INTRODUCE SOME QUOTES ABOUT MARADONA
TIME TO INTRODUCE SOME QUOTES ABOUT PELE
The greatest goal I ever scored was a one-two with Celeste – we named him Edson Arantes do Nascimento.”
Dondinho, Pele’s father
"I told myself before the game, 'he's made of skin and bones just like everyone else'. But I was wrong.”
Tarcisio Burgnich, the Italy defender who marked Pele in the Mexico 1970 Final
My name is Ronald Reagan, I’m the President of the United States of America. But you don’t need to introduce yourself, because everyone knows who Pele is.”
Ronald Reagan
“The difficulty, the extraordinary, is not to score 1,000 goals like Pele – it’s to score one goal like Pele.”
Carlos Drummond de Andrade, Brazilian poet
“The greatest player in history was Di Stefano. I refuse to classify Pele as a player. He was above that.”
Ferenc Puskas
“In some countries they wanted to touch him, in some they wanted to kiss him. In others they even kissed the ground he walked on. I thought it was beautiful, just beautiful.”
Clodoaldo
“After the fifth goal, even I wanted to cheer for him.”
Sigge Parling of Sweden on a 5-2 defeat by Brazil in the 1958 FIFA World Cup Final
“I arrived hoping to stop a great man, but I went away convinced I had been undone by someone who was not born on the same planet as the rest of us.”
Costa Pereira on Benfica’s 5-2 loss to Santos in the 1962 Intercontinental Cup in Lisbon
"Pele was the greatest – he was simply flawless. And off the pitch he is always smiling and upbeat. You never see him bad-tempered. He loves being Pele.”
Tostao
“When I saw Pele play, it made me feel I should hang up my boots.”
Just Fontaine
“Pele was so focused on winning the Trophy. It was like he knew it was his destiny. He was like a child waiting for Santa Claus.”
Mario Americo, Brazil’s masseur, on Mexico 1970
“Pele was one of the few who contradicted my theory: instead of 15 minutes of fame, he will have 15 centuries.”
Andy Warhol
“You may be right. But you know nothing about football and I’ve seen Pele play.”
Vicente Feola to the psychologist who said Pele was too immature to play at Sweden 1958
“Pele was the only footballer who surpassed the boundaries of logic.”
Johan Cruyff
“His great secret was improvisation. Those things he did were in one moment. He had an extraordinary perception of the game.”
Carlos Alberto Torres
“I sometimes feel as though football was invented for this magical player.”
Sir Bobby Charlton
"Pele played football for 22 years, and in that time he did more to promote world friendship and fraternity than any other ambassador anywhere.”
J.B. Pinheiro, the Brazilian ambassador to the United Nations
Malcolm Allison: “How do you spell Pele?”
Pat Crerand: “Easy: G-O-D.”
British television commentators during Mexico 1970
The greatest goal I ever scored was a one-two with Celeste – we named him Edson Arantes do Nascimento.”
Dondinho, Pele’s father
"I told myself before the game, 'he's made of skin and bones just like everyone else'. But I was wrong.”
Tarcisio Burgnich, the Italy defender who marked Pele in the Mexico 1970 Final
My name is Ronald Reagan, I’m the President of the United States of America. But you don’t need to introduce yourself, because everyone knows who Pele is.”
Ronald Reagan
“The difficulty, the extraordinary, is not to score 1,000 goals like Pele – it’s to score one goal like Pele.”
Carlos Drummond de Andrade, Brazilian poet
“The greatest player in history was Di Stefano. I refuse to classify Pele as a player. He was above that.”
Ferenc Puskas
“In some countries they wanted to touch him, in some they wanted to kiss him. In others they even kissed the ground he walked on. I thought it was beautiful, just beautiful.”
Clodoaldo
“After the fifth goal, even I wanted to cheer for him.”
Sigge Parling of Sweden on a 5-2 defeat by Brazil in the 1958 FIFA World Cup Final
“I arrived hoping to stop a great man, but I went away convinced I had been undone by someone who was not born on the same planet as the rest of us.”
Costa Pereira on Benfica’s 5-2 loss to Santos in the 1962 Intercontinental Cup in Lisbon
"Pele was the greatest – he was simply flawless. And off the pitch he is always smiling and upbeat. You never see him bad-tempered. He loves being Pele.”
Tostao
“When I saw Pele play, it made me feel I should hang up my boots.”
Just Fontaine
“Pele was so focused on winning the Trophy. It was like he knew it was his destiny. He was like a child waiting for Santa Claus.”
Mario Americo, Brazil’s masseur, on Mexico 1970
“Pele was one of the few who contradicted my theory: instead of 15 minutes of fame, he will have 15 centuries.”
Andy Warhol
“You may be right. But you know nothing about football and I’ve seen Pele play.”
Vicente Feola to the psychologist who said Pele was too immature to play at Sweden 1958
“Pele was the only footballer who surpassed the boundaries of logic.”
Johan Cruyff
“His great secret was improvisation. Those things he did were in one moment. He had an extraordinary perception of the game.”
Carlos Alberto Torres
“I sometimes feel as though football was invented for this magical player.”
Sir Bobby Charlton
"Pele played football for 22 years, and in that time he did more to promote world friendship and fraternity than any other ambassador anywhere.”
J.B. Pinheiro, the Brazilian ambassador to the United Nations
Malcolm Allison: “How do you spell Pele?”
Pat Crerand: “Easy: G-O-D.”
British television commentators during Mexico 1970
Possibly the worst football-related quote ever?
Yeah, pure blasphemy.
According to Pele, Best was best. That should be good enough but it was close between them, both football geniuses. That doesnt mean anything . Elvis once said Roy Orbison had a better voice then him .
Maradona talking about Total Football
I think the GOAT tier has 4 players: Pele, Maradona, Di Stefano, Messi.
The best player I've ever seen is Messi. For me he's the most complete attacking player ever. He has a ridiculous level at passing, dribbling, finishing. He's the best in the world in each one of those aspects. If aliens came and I had to explain them how to be good in football I'd show them a Messi video. I just think there's never been a player who takes the best decisions at football like him. He plays as if he was watching from the stands. When he was younger he tried to do it on his own, but now he uses his ability to find his teammates.
Just watching this at 2:45
He does it so efortlessly. It's a great play and would be the highlight of a good midfielder, but for Messi that's like a,b,c stuff.
This being said, the other situation comes around: If I had to pick one player to defend humanity or my life or something, that would be Diego Armando Maradona. He trully was a God amongst men. His left foot has to be the most talented ever in football's history. He could do whatever he wanted with it. It impresses me more than Ronaldinho or anyone else. He was strong, quick and determined. His vision was almost as good as Messi's and he could put the ball where he wanted. But above all of that, he has this aura, this supernatural thing with him. Those images where he's focusing during the anthems and looks serious...gives me goosebumps.
So for me Messi is the best, and Diego is the greatest. I honestly can't understand how someone can post "Cristiano Ronaldo" in this kind of threads when you've got people like Pele and Maradona around. Cristiano is one of the best goalscorers ever, but as a player he can't even touch Di Stefano who is Real Madrid himself.
The best player I've ever seen is Messi. For me he's the most complete attacking player ever. He has a ridiculous level at passing, dribbling, finishing. He's the best in the world in each one of those aspects. If aliens came and I had to explain them how to be good in football I'd show them a Messi video. I just think there's never been a player who takes the best decisions at football like him. He plays as if he was watching from the stands. When he was younger he tried to do it on his own, but now he uses his ability to find his teammates.
Just watching this at 2:45
He does it so efortlessly. It's a great play and would be the highlight of a good midfielder, but for Messi that's like a,b,c stuff.
This being said, the other situation comes around: If I had to pick one player to defend humanity or my life or something, that would be Diego Armando Maradona. He trully was a God amongst men. His left foot has to be the most talented ever in football's history. He could do whatever he wanted with it. It impresses me more than Ronaldinho or anyone else. He was strong, quick and determined. His vision was almost as good as Messi's and he could put the ball where he wanted. But above all of that, he has this aura, this supernatural thing with him. Those images where he's focusing during the anthems and looks serious...gives me goosebumps.
So for me Messi is the best, and Diego is the greatest. I honestly can't understand how someone can post "Cristiano Ronaldo" in this kind of threads when you've got people like Pele and Maradona around. Cristiano is one of the best goalscorers ever, but as a player he can't even touch Di Stefano who is Real Madrid himself.
^ Well put.
Certainly chimes with my own thoughts on the debate.
Certainly chimes with my own thoughts on the debate.
Just watched a video with the greatest goals of Maradona , Messi and Pele. If it was a battle of beautiful goals pele would be nowhere near , and I'm torn between who's are better between the other two.
I noticed in most sports, especially physical ones.
The level of physicality or threshold allowed has dropped across the board, so comparing someone from a different era is futile imo. Also, in regards to superteams, money, etc.
Messi could be your favorite and the best. However, I would bet that your future children would not agree with you when that time comes.
The level of physicality or threshold allowed has dropped across the board, so comparing someone from a different era is futile imo. Also, in regards to superteams, money, etc.
Messi could be your favorite and the best. However, I would bet that your future children would not agree with you when that time comes.
I don't understand the 'Messi has no charisma' argument. If he had Zlatan's charisma, but all his stats and achievements are the same as it is now, will it really be that different?
Cristiano Ronaldo
and this will be my only post in this thread, will not get dragged into another argument about Luiz v Cristiano or you-know-who.
and this will be my only post in this thread, will not get dragged into another argument about Luiz v Cristiano or you-know-who.
People mean that if he had Maradona's (well, or Zlatan's) charisma, he would've performed even better in the crucial games that he lost - be it with Argentine in any one of their finals or with Barca against Chelsea or Bayern, for example.
GOAT is Pele, BOAT is Messi.
Has to be Messi man. I can't imagine anyone being better than him in the history of football.
If anything I think goals seem easier to come by for the very best players these days than previously unless you go a long way back in time.
Organisation of defences might have improved but there is much less violence & the pitches & ball are a lot better for the attacker to work with. Nobody was scoring 50/60 a season consecutively back in the day unless their team was ludicrously superior at the domestic level. Muller at Bayern? Pele at Santos? anybody else?
Organisation of defences might have improved but there is much less violence & the pitches & ball are a lot better for the attacker to work with. Nobody was scoring 50/60 a season consecutively back in the day unless their team was ludicrously superior at the domestic level. Muller at Bayern? Pele at Santos? anybody else?
It's important to keep in mind that players have played less matches per season in earlier decades. So the appropriate statistic is goal/game ratio.
Several of the greats surpassed Messi's and Ronaldo's achievements in that category, both in league and international football.
Di Stéfano was roughly on par (as an all-purpose attacking midfielder), Puskas, Müller and Eusébio were better (sometimes significantly). There are probably some more, but these were the obvious ones I could think of.
On the other hand, there are so many factors that make these comparisons over 50-60 years extremely difficult. So the best method of evaluation I can think of is to compare the exploits of these players with those of their contemporaries. In that way we can get a rough idea of how far ahead each of them was in comparison with a normal pro player under the same conditions. Then you can compare that over the generations.
That method has its flaws too (and it's only measuring goals), but it's the best I can come up with.
Stats according to wikipedia (games / goals / ratio):
-------------------------Domestic & European/S. Am.------International
Di Stéfano------------665 / 484 (0,73)-------------------------41 / 29 (0,71)
Puskas----------------Hungary: 358 / 374 (1,04)-------------89 / 84 (0,94)
-------------------------Spain:----262 / 242 (0,92)
Eusébio---------------Europe: 440 / 473 (1,08)------ --------64 / 41 (0,64)
Müller------- ----------Europe: 605 / 564 (0,93)----- ---------62 / 68 (1,10)
C. Ronaldo---- -------671 / 487 (0,73)------------------------133 / 61 (0,46)
Messi------- ----------535 / 456 (0,85)-------------------------114 / 56 (0,49)
I have not included the games in lower leagues, African and North American football
-------------------------Domestic & European/S. Am.------International
Di Stéfano------------665 / 484 (0,73)-------------------------41 / 29 (0,71)
Puskas----------------Hungary: 358 / 374 (1,04)-------------89 / 84 (0,94)
-------------------------Spain:----262 / 242 (0,92)
Eusébio---------------Europe: 440 / 473 (1,08)------ --------64 / 41 (0,64)
Müller------- ----------Europe: 605 / 564 (0,93)----- ---------62 / 68 (1,10)
C. Ronaldo---- -------671 / 487 (0,73)------------------------133 / 61 (0,46)
Messi------- ----------535 / 456 (0,85)-------------------------114 / 56 (0,49)
I have not included the games in lower leagues, African and North American football
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WC 86 - BELGIUM VS ARGENTINA
WC 86 - BELGIUM VS ARGENTINA
That picture is overrated. In fact, that amount of people is a FK wall.
You don't like propaganda 
Diego doesn't even need propaganda
You can just watch it from Zidane
You can just watch it from Zidane
What is the difference? Serious question.
You don't need to convince me if you read my posts below
The Double Draft - QF 1: Downcast Vs. Skizzo/Pat
The Double Draft - QF 1: Downcast Vs. Skizzo/Pat
Greatest puts imo more emphasis on the fact if a player won the CL, World Cup, Euro Cup, defined a new way of footballer, but that doesnt neccesarily make you a better footballer imo. People see C.Ronaldo as a greater footballer because he has won the Euro's, but it's be nonsense to think that has made him any better.
Then surely someone like Xavi is the GOAT.....
Xavi is not a decisive player. Iniesta could be there though
Putting more emphasis on something doesnt mean that the person with the most trophies is goat. Xavi didnt come close to the individual levels others reached, which also remains to be a big factor for such titles. Best of all time is in my opinion, solely the individual footballing abilities and the individual achievements (which of course arent completely individual as it's still a team game). Let me say the highest rated on FIFA for example, GOAT has many more factora like trophies, context of the era, charisma and fuss around the player etc.
he is not if you think you can only win the game by scoring or assisting...scoring a goal is just the final act.
I didnt meant only on trophy cabinet....he is one of the best midfielders of all time, key component of one of the greatest teams in history and one of the best national teams in history, changed football in a way etc.
Dont get me wrong, he is not in my top 5 but till today i thought GOAT means the best.
With your thought there would not be a better player, as the keeper is as important as a striker.
We're talking about individuals with enough skill to break defenses on their own and To generate a goal out of nothing.
I agree to be honest with Xavi, although attackers get far more recognition than midfielders. Things like hype, popularity play big parts in titles like GOAT, the criteria isnt really clear. It's weird to think that the nominees for GOAT are all attackers except for Beckenbauer, but is Beckenbauer such a better defender than Xavi is a midfielder? You could question that, does Beckenbauer have a bigger name and popularity in football, I think so. That's why I prefer to keep best and greatest apart, best for me is Messi undisputedly. While Pele is greatest because of all the stuff next to just his qualities.
Bican scored 832 goals in 427 games for Slavia Praha (537/358 in the league), but he played in the ridiculous era, same as some Brazilians or Dean etc.
Puskas scored 358 in 349 in the Hungarian league
Seeler scored 49 goals in 33 league + league play-off games in one season (and has a >1 gpg ratio in a few other seasons)
Kocsis scored 56 goals in 40 games in 1954 (league + World Cup)
etc.
They rarely had 40-50 games per season though (accounted for in the stats, at least), but they maintained a higher gpg than Messi or Ronaldo do today for a few years
Not sure if it's fair to blame him for the shortcomings of his teams or his injuries. For example, he scored 34 in 37 during his one year stay at Barca, and scored the winning goal in the Cup Winners Final against PSG with the great George Weah. Still, Real won the championship, because they had a way better team than Barca at the time, which was pretty much a Ronaldo show.
His first season at Inter was great, too, but Juve was considered the best team in the world at this time(same goes for the legendary Ajax of LVG during his PSV stint, btw), featuring players like Zidane, Davids, Del Piero, Inzaghi, Deschamps and Ferrara. No shame in losing to that team. After that, his injuries started to hamper his career. When he joined Real, not only he was past his peak, but so were all the other Galacticos like Zidane, Beckham and Figo, who hit their prime between '98 and '02.
Anyone who has actually seen him play from 96-98 should be able to understand why his name gets dropped in here. He just was *that* amazing, definitely the most spectacular player since Maradona, and I'd argue unmatched to this very day.
His portugese namesake deserves huge respect for his consistency and efficiency, but he never made a game a jaw dropping one man show like Luis could on his hayday. Messi comes closer, and again is to be commended for his achievements, but like Pele he pretty much spent his whole career in a team of world class players around him.
Yes, it's a shame we can't see what a '97 Ronaldo could do in todays Barca or Real(or for my Bayern, I can dream), because I think our contemporary superstars would have someone to look up to.