Get a decent midfield behind these two and we will play good football
The Mata-Kagawa Linkup today..
- Thread starter The Man Himself
- Start date
As much as people are keen to refer to the combination today, there was another important component which might be overlooked. And thats Hernandez.
When you have Mata and Kagawa in the same team you need pace and movement to stretch the defence, so that the number 10s can come get the ball in the pockets of space that were opened up and also offer a killer pass leading to a chance on goal. This doesn't specifically have to come from your striker, it did today. Arsenal use Walcott from the right for example and miss him when they don't have it.
But the pace and movement is important to get the best from these players. You see it when Rooney is playing behind the striker - he looked better behind Welbeck and Hernandez, in the space their running would create. We saw it today again with Hernandez opening up the tight spaces those players want to operate in.
At his best Van Persie offers those runs in behind, but not nearly with the same pace as a Welbeck or a Hernandez. Likewise Rooney can't offer the same. So defenders may feel they can push up and still defend the spaces Kagawa and Mata want to pick up the ball in.
When you have Mata and Kagawa in the same team you need pace and movement to stretch the defence, so that the number 10s can come get the ball in the pockets of space that were opened up and also offer a killer pass leading to a chance on goal. This doesn't specifically have to come from your striker, it did today. Arsenal use Walcott from the right for example and miss him when they don't have it.
But the pace and movement is important to get the best from these players. You see it when Rooney is playing behind the striker - he looked better behind Welbeck and Hernandez, in the space their running would create. We saw it today again with Hernandez opening up the tight spaces those players want to operate in.
At his best Van Persie offers those runs in behind, but not nearly with the same pace as a Welbeck or a Hernandez. Likewise Rooney can't offer the same. So defenders may feel they can push up and still defend the spaces Kagawa and Mata want to pick up the ball in.
Sounds like you really hated the game today. You sound bitter as feck that we played well.
Basically, you're full of shit.
I thought we as a team looked ordinary before the first goal. Mata was finding it hard to get into the game and was invisible for the most part. It was a scrappy affair. Then the first goal went in and from that moment on Newcastle players couldn't care less about the game. I thought they were exceedingly poor. Not taking anything away from the performance but I think we need to relax a little bit. They need to do it against better opposition before we anoint it as the best thing since time. Against S'ton and Everton away would be the real test. If it works against them, then I will happily join the bandwagon.
Yes to be fair there haven't been many occasions of Moyes' picking square pegs in round holes compared to SAF. The criticism of selections seems to be down to the perceived lack of quality of the players he has chosen but, with the exception of Fellaini, they're not his signings.
Myself and my brother have been saying it on here and to anybody who'll listen for as long as I can remember this term....
One striker up top with the three behind. When all fit and able, that three needs to be Januzaj Mata Kagawa. I am putting them in that order to satisfy a formation. All three have the god given ability and technical prowess to interchange between positions. You saw it today and as poor as Newcastle are, the could not do a bloody thing about it.
Add to that Nani, Welbeck and even Valencia and we've a list of options (pardon me for discrediting Young, but he makes me cringe). RVP/Welbeck/Rooney/Chico all as options for the sole striker. Where the feck are we going not playing this continuously in all honesty?
If at all possible, and allowing my muppet to shine through, Matuidi/Rakitic/Carvalho (all of which - maybe with the exception of Matuidi, are attainable) employed in the middle two. Add Carrick/Fellaini/Cleverley and we have options to burn!
It should not be this hard....
One striker up top with the three behind. When all fit and able, that three needs to be Januzaj Mata Kagawa. I am putting them in that order to satisfy a formation. All three have the god given ability and technical prowess to interchange between positions. You saw it today and as poor as Newcastle are, the could not do a bloody thing about it.
Add to that Nani, Welbeck and even Valencia and we've a list of options (pardon me for discrediting Young, but he makes me cringe). RVP/Welbeck/Rooney/Chico all as options for the sole striker. Where the feck are we going not playing this continuously in all honesty?
If at all possible, and allowing my muppet to shine through, Matuidi/Rakitic/Carvalho (all of which - maybe with the exception of Matuidi, are attainable) employed in the middle two. Add Carrick/Fellaini/Cleverley and we have options to burn!
It should not be this hard....
we need someone to take the ball off of the defence and to help keep possession, too many times smalling has to punt it up the pitch
Eh up, who stuck 50p in you motormouth?
I just want a manager that deserves to manage this club based on credentials not nationality.
based on what evidence? did he play conventional wingers for 11 years at everton?
Yes. Ideally someone who can link up with defense, win ball and keep it ticking. Little upgrade on Carrick (quality wise)...
Based on the fact he played them both in (at the time) our biggest game of the season away at Olympiakos, when we basically had a full squad.
yeah this. if you attribute poor performance to moyes you simply can't make excuses when we play well, you look really bitter. I'd rather be on the side of being sad when the team loses and happy when we play well than what all the moyes-haters seem to be on now, praying for us to get thrashed every week so they look smart on an internet forum
so that's enough for you to assume he wants to play conventional wingers the rest of his career, ignoring the 11 years previous? he's giving them plenty of chances, but he signed mata and plans to play him on the right... pretty overwhelming evidence he's not big into wingers, ignoring the 11 years previous
I'm the motormouth? All I've seen you doing all day is picking holes in anything positive that anyone took from the game. Nobody wants to listen to your crap.
If Moyes does sell Kagawa even after the later showing what he can do for the team in recent weeks, then he will be a bigger idiot than I first thought.
How do you explain his choices for that game? He was trying to go defensive against the worst team left in the competition only for his tactics to completely backfire?
He has often played Mata as a conventional winger in plenty of games in the last few moths.
no he hasn't look at the heatmaps for mata
I see two intelligent and quick passers and movers. Both of them seem to already have figured each other out and therefore they look more composed and accustomed to one another even in tight spaces. Today they also had Chicharito in front of them, who the opposition know will dart away at any given chance. These three created a lot of pressure and when Newcastle's midfield didn't do their defensive duties, our lads punished them.
Four times!
Four times!
About the linkup... absolute pure joy, and let's not forget Adnan as part of this. They knew exactly where to find each other and that's the only thing that matters. The first thought that came up to the mind of every United fan at the pub where I watched the game was: "Man! Why has Devid Moyes not seen this a lot earlier? We could have won many more points by now."
I hope the trend will continue. It was so beautiful to watch today.
I hope the trend will continue. It was so beautiful to watch today.
Didn't get to the byline enough for me.
Don't think we need to spend anything on our front line this summer. Rooney, Januzaj, Mata and Kagawa will be a class combination for years to come. Maybe a few players to back them up, out and out wingers so we got some tactical flexibility. Carvalho and either someone like Kroos/Gundagon behind them with some defensive signings. I think we'll be sorted.
I really don't get why anyone would think we do need to. We have too many attackers as it is.
Indeed. They're all still so young, fair enough, Rooney is 28, but the others are 19, 24 and 25.
It is surprising to see how well Mata and Kagawa are able to link up, especially since they haven't played many games together. Maybe, this is something Moyes had them work on in training. The only drawback I see to this partnership is none of them are very good at tracking back and retriving the ball.
No intention to derail the thread but I wouldn't be surprised if Moyes sold Kagawa this year. If he did it would cement his idiocy.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
You seriously are prejudiced against Moyes and it seems everything's fine to ridicule him. Is that because your Special One didn't get the job?Maybe you did...
I can't think of one single occasion where Sir Alex picked a team as badly as Moyes did for Olympiakos away...
This nonsense about RVP.
The issue is Rooney playing as #10. Play any of Kagawa/Mata/Janujaz there, then pick Rooney or RVP up top.
Well said.
I think a lot depends on whether we can retrieve useful footballers from the wreckage that is Nani and Valencia because I think a burst of pace is what is needed alongside the Mata-Kagawa axis to make it unstoppable as a creative trio behind the striker . It goes without saying that the pivot behind them really needs massive investment to stabilize the team . A leftback, a Cavalho or Scheiderlin and Kroos/Gundogun/Rakitic will be the three signings we absolutely must make then look to have another central defender . If that is accomplished then the basis of a very competitive team will be laid, not that we didn't have one before because funny enough those are the signings we needed to make last summer !
Next season combination of:
Gundogan, Kroos, Mata, Januzaj, Kagawa, Rooney & Hernandez
Gundogan, Kroos, Mata, Januzaj, Kagawa, Rooney & Hernandez
It's because we'e languishing, in 6th or 7th place.
So I guess you have enough arguments to ridicule him, without spouting the bollox that it's Moyes who started fielding weird line-ups/personnel.
I know it's completely ridiculous to have felt this way, but seeing Javier, Juan and Shinji start together made my eyes well up a bit. These three are outstanding footballers and even though they're all respected they're still criminally underrated. And of course for me, whose dad grew up in the same town as Javier did, I can't help feel pride when he starts.
And when Adnan came on for Young, we slowly slumbered out of out early game doldrums but we went on to look better and better as the game wore on. Man v boy stuff.
And when Adnan came on for Young, we slowly slumbered out of out early game doldrums but we went on to look better and better as the game wore on. Man v boy stuff.
His best performances for Utd came from the left, cutting in during 2006-9. Just because he is nominally put down as a "winger" doesn't mean he can't move into the centre, playing a fluid 4-2-3-1 would allow the interchange of position, even more so when we have intelligent players on the pitch like Mata, Kagawa, Nani and Januzaj... I would say his tacitical indiscipline is exacerbated when he is played anywhere in the centre of the attacking third. Look at the difference between Rooney and Hernandez. Hernandez always occupied the centrebacks, and gave them something to think about today. Rooney would have been everywhere but up front, leaving us with no focal point in attack. Yes, he would chase down a stray ball in the LB position, but once he gets the ball, then what? He isn't good enough to be a 10, his touch too often lets him down and he plays too conservatively and with little 'imagination' for want of a better word, when he is deployed there. As a 9, his tactical indiscipline would leave us short and congested through the middle, and RVP is comfortably a better striker. His best bet would be to play as one of the "three" behind RVP, IMO.
Also, when you say his tactical indiscipline from the left his fullback with a 2 v 1, I would say that is more the fault of the holding midfielder whose role it is, to fill in and block the passing lanes in such situations
Nani---Mata---Kagawa
-------Rooney----------
Good mix of hard work, flair and pace.
-------Rooney----------
Good mix of hard work, flair and pace.
Or two... the kind of platform City provide for Nasri & Silva.
Fellaini is the catalyst that allows Moyes to drop one (or both) of Valencia/Young. He may not be the technical footballer himself, but he allows us to play more technical stuff higher up the pitch.
Jepp, With RVP and Januzaj, you have six fantastic players for the four attacking spaces. All effective flair players.
Apart from De Gea, Mata and Kagawa should be the first names on the team sheet.
yep
as bad as some parts of his game are, he terrifies defenders because he's completely unmarkable. if he's confident he can be a massive threat
But yet people say our squad is poor!!!! Tell me anywhere in the league that has the likes of Rooney, Mata, Kagawa, RVP, Januzaj & Welbeck to chose from. Not to mention Chico and Nani. Good tactics and a centre midfielder was always what we needed.