The McFred midfield duo

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They are both weak in position and weak at winning the ball back.

When Maguire is back I'd try Lindeloff as a DM. Something I scoffed at when others suggested this previously - but we have to try something else, we can't continue being wide open in the middle of the pitch.
 

Judas

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I laughed at the Lindelof as a DM idea, I laughed a lot. It's daft. But at this point, what have we actually got to lose by giving it a go? :lol::nervous: I can't take much more of these two at the heart of our midfield, it's just hopeless.
 

Esquire

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It bizarrely brings to mind that quote about Scholes, about how his bottom level was still so high. McFred actually weren't awful today, in my opinion, and yet their average level is so far below that of Everton's midfield duo, a midfield duo that toils for an upper mid-table team.
I would agree. They just cannot be the starting mids for United. Everyone can see that. Problem is the persistence with this pairing by the coaches.
 

DON’T PANIC ™

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McTominay is so ponderous at the moment. He takes ages to choose a pass and then often ends up going sideways, backwards or giving it away.

Fred had some decent moments today but then in a crucial moment didn’t get the job done.

Very frustrating. This team lacks intelligence and ability in the engine room.
I agree with you. McT takes far too many touches and can’t see runs. He even took a touch in the box when the ball was tee’d up for him to shoot first time and then lost it.
 

red4ever 79

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No clean sheet in the last 9 games now. The longest stretch in 50 years. But, but McFred offer us a protection
 

redshaw

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It's a terrible pairing that is playing much worse than last season.

The collection of midfielders we have is quite bizarre, from unable, to unsuited to too old to play regularly, they cost 90m, 50m, 35m + 35m so about 200m yet I can't say we have a single reliable able bodied one that can pass 10 yards.

Not sure how Garner is doing, it's that bad right now.

It's on Ole to let it get this bad but lets say some miracle happened and we did get one or two recognized midfielders in, I'd imagine we'd be better but are we just looking for the next player or area to blame rather than looking at the manager and lack of managing. What kind of mega squad does Ole need, Verrati and Kante with SAF helping out?
 

clarkydaz

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It should have been McTominay of. Fred was doing OK apart from the goal. McTominay was just nothing
Fred gets more stick because he is actually in the game more, always looking for the ball and willing to harass. He will have a good 10 minutes then a dreadful 5 mins. McTominay kinda drifts along with the game
 

SirReginald

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Wasn’t it a well established opinion that McFred was possibly the weakest pairing in the top 6, yet somehow you go into the following season with no improvement. The club won’t divulge, but is that Ole or the clubs fault?

It’s definitely Oles fault that donny looks completely lost and miserable though.
 

VivaRonaldo85

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I got told to ‘go away’ in the match day thread when I suggested Doucoure and Allan were a more effective defensive midfield pairing than McFred and that we were being outplayed and out battled in midfield today. I stand by that. If you’re going to play two in there, they must be rock solid and capable of the odd decent piece of football. We may as well go with one and go for it with better footballers in the middle.
 

MacarisSocks

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Somethings wrong when you play two CDM's at home to Villa and Everton, but still get still get carved apart in the midfield on breaks.
 

clarkydaz

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Wasn’t it a well established opinion that McFred was possibly the weakest pairing in the top 6, yet somehow you go into the following season with no improvement. The club won’t divulge, but is that Ole or the clubs fault?

It’s definitely Oles fault that donny looks completely lost and miserable though.
Maybe weakest in top half of the table anyway
 

Viral United

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I think the issue is our rigid system, if McFred not working then try something else. there are lots of other formation we could have used to mask our CM issue.
I just don't get idea of wait till next transfer window to fix this issue.
 

KetilOwren88

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And that is a good example (amongst many others) why a comparison between Ferguson and Solskjær doesn’t make sense. Fergie was a father figure to his players, but also ruthless. The great man also had his favorites like any manager, but nobody could feel comfortable like now
 

croadyman

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Just maybe IF we actually created more in games then deflected goals like against Southampton or killer counter attacks like yesterday against Everton wouldn't prove so very costly but certain it won't ever change under Ole and this coaching staff
 

Kopral Jono

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This clip proves the point I made time and again: us playing a double pivot is redundant because neither McTominay nor Fred is good enough defensively, it's like we're playing with ten men. We'll be much better off if we play one of them instead or Matic, with Pogba or Van de Beek as our playmaker from deep, and trust our centre half pairing.

Unfortunately Ole doesn't see it this way.
 

yipthatman

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Just maybe IF we actually created more in games then deflected goals like against Southampton or killer counter attacks like yesterday against Everton wouldn't prove so very costly but certain it won't ever change under Ole and this coaching staff
Our finishing is absolutely shocking and this is why we couldn't win (obviously). It's been going on for a while now. The amount of times the ball is whipped across the box and no one is there. Tame shots from distance straight to the keeper. People shooting when the better option is to pass. Good for Tony but that only went in thanks to a deflection.

Its second rate attacking and McFred seem to be the focus of everyones anger. They did OK, They got the ball up to the attackers more than enough times and helped out the defense enough times. Do I think they are good enough, probably not but that's what we have to work with. We should have scored a few goals with those chances. Everton were always going to score on current form and blaming McFred doesnt change that.
 

zenith

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I laughed at the Lindelof as a DM idea, I laughed a lot. It's daft. But at this point, what have we actually got to lose by giving it a go? :lol::nervous: I can't take much more of these two at the heart of our midfield, it's just hopeless.
Yup, it's time to give Lindelof at DMa go now. Pair him with McTominay maybe, c with mct having a license to go forward.

The DM job has to be to drop at times as a third center half to pick up the ball, while defending and when attacking to quickly distribute it to the full backs, make a line breaking pass through cm or go over the top to one of the wingers and Lindelof can go all of that.

Let something change ffs.

McFred was working last year to an extent as we were being attacked by teams, especially away from home. That would leave a lot of space in midfield and so they could break up play and use that amount if space to simply release the pass to bruno.
 

Sky1981

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I'd say nothing wrong with Mcfred duo, many other teams has lesser player on their midfield. What they need, however... is a coherent tactics which make them a working cog in a well oiled machine. An understanding and cooperation between 10 outfield player to cover and press as a team. Every PL has their own mediocre midfield acting as cannon fodder where their main job is to harras, press, win the ball and pass 10 yards to someone else. Doesn't take a genious to be that player in a soundly coached team. But we all know tactics is not Ole's forte. His only approach is put 6 on the back, and 6 upfront and wait for them to do their magic. We look so disjointed and without tactics on the grand scheme of things.

We look most dangerous on counter because lo and behold, counter attacking football seldom relies on tactics but more on being direct.

Sure, having great midfield helps, but a better manager would make do with McFred and utilized the winger / fullbacks to chip in as a team.
 

Yakuza_devils

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It's easy to blame McFred but we look shaky every time we are being attacked. We have almost 200mil worth of defenders. I believe it is the most expensive in the world/epl.

McFred are decent midfielders. They are not that bad.

We have to look at the manager and the style of play.
 

::sonny::

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utd can’t play with bruno pogba mct in a mid of 3 according to the einstein on the bench
 

Deery

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Fred being weak again the dude just isn’t a defensive midfielder, I don’t think McTominay had that bad of a game yesterday except for getting wrong side while trying to win an air ball.
 

Borys

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I swear Fred loses every 50/50. Christ, he loses every 70/30 that is in his favour. He is too small and does not have the physicality for the Premier League.
This has been the case since last season. I made a comment after first game this season (if I remember correctly) that Fred is playing deeper than usual, like we're trying to replicate Leicester approach (Ndidi screening, Tielemans as B2B) and this is a bad idea as he's not suited at all to be the last midfielder.
Now a number of games into the season and still looks like we're doing the same.

So Fred deserves the stick for the goal, but also he's being constantly played in a position that doesn't suit his (limited) strengths so it's on the manager as well.
 

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Why are people so obsessed with this? We concede a lot of chances every week and the solution is to play more attackers in midfield?

City play with a proper DM, which we don't have, and the whole team is doing effective pressing with forwards working hard. That's not easily replicated at United.
 

Bestietom

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What annoys me is that they doesn't want to try any long ball to the other flank. Whenever we want to switch the play, the ball has to go back to our CBs, then to the FB. It hurts our attack a lot as when the ball finds our wingers or fullbacks, the opponents have already adjust positions. It's just too predictable.

I know they are limited, but they can't be that bad, can they? These passes are the basic ones, they don't even need to have pinpoint accuracy.
I agree. I can never see the reason ( except safety for their own good} why players keep passing the ball backwards all the time when a quick ball forward into space could get us out of trouble and create a chance for us.
Sometimes I feel that this have been drilled into our players on the training ground. ( when in trouble just pass back)
 

Litch

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It's easy to blame McFred but we look shaky every time we are being attacked. We have almost 200mil worth of defenders. I believe it is the most expensive in the world/epl.

McFred are decent midfielders. They are not that bad.

We have to look at the manager and the style of play.
I can't wait for Ole to bow to the pressure and feck off McFred. Then play who the feck in there, pay 80m for Rice cause like Harry Mc, the issues will look exactly the same. That defence looks no different than last year and arguably worse. Its hilarious how these two players are to blame for things even when they aren't playing or they don't pick themselves.
 

Litch

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Why are people so obsessed with this? We concede a lot of chances every week and the solution is to play more attackers in midfield?

City play with a proper DM, which we don't have, and the whole team is doing effective pressing with forwards working hard. That's not easily replicated at United.
Not easy to replicate if when the other team is attacking, our midfielders like Pogs and Bruno are that far upfront, leaves a massive hole in the midfield. Whilst people are making reference to the quality of those midfielders, the forget how hard the work equally. City and Liverpool are winning the ball back even before it gets to the midfield. Whoever plays DM for Utd is going to get their pants pulled down. Its an impossible task at Utd in this system.
 

Bestietom

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This pairing has seen four seasons under Ole just think about that. It's hard to say this isn't what Ole wants when we've had a number of transfer windows since then.

To be fair to the they were good in 18/19 and 19/20 but last season it really got exposed and it was obvious teams had figured out our style. It's an abysmal midfield at the top level.

Without even looking at the teams above us, Rice/Soucek, Ndidi/Tielemans, Partey/Xhaka, D.Luiz/McGinn are either better on the same level as our midfield. Granted our options aren't the best but with VDB, Pogba and Matic being kept fit, I'm sure we can be better in midfield than we have for the last two seasons.
Then Ole and his coaches need to get the pairings right, and stop playing the safety method by passing the ball backwards and sideways and losing it most times.
 

Jaykespeare88

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Somethings wrong when you play two CDM's at home to Villa and Everton, but still get still get carved apart in the midfield on breaks.
Plus with those two not going to carve anything open going the other way, hence to constant side to side. Scott's breakthrough season under Jose he was bursting through, getting on the end of crosses, recently shots running to the edge of the area, what's changed? Its down to managers instructions I think plus the limitations of both player as to where to be when attacking/defending.
 

Ixion

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Somethings wrong when you play two CDM's at home to Villa and Everton, but still get still get carved apart in the midfield on breaks.
As bad as the football was under Van Gaal the one thing he wanted to do was make us difficult to break down and we had the best defensive record in the league in his second season and conceded less than a goal a game over the seaason. Jose's 2 full seasons we only conceded 29 & 28 goals in the league which is a fantastic record.

Ole wants to protect our back 4 with McFred but we get cut wide open every game and it's getting worse and haven't kept a clean sheet at home in 9 games, 1 clean sheet in like 16 games, while De Gea is our best player.

People love to shit on Jose but his defensive record in the PL is lightyears better than Ole and I'd trust him to work on the defense every time over Ole.
 
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AFC NimbleThumb

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Citeh Midfield of Bernardo, KdB & Rodrigo bossing it at Anfield yet we ‘need’ McFred to ward off counters from the likes of Everton, nonsense. They served their purpose in our initial backs to the wall performances but the system should have evolved far beyond these two some time ago.

If we were keeping clean sheets & they were turgid on the ball then they may have some use but at this point their ‘running around’ has stopped masking their defensive lapses. They aren’t doing the job they were supposedly in the team to do.