This.
Nonsense - you said it in Jan 20 so it could only be that Ferguson who’d fought in June 19....genuinely mental to take 3/4 years off when comparing 2 active fighters as they were in Jan 2020.
Sorry, I just don't buy into the infallibility of Khabib. He finished his career at the top of his game which is apparently skewing perceptions of how good he actually was. He nearly lost to Poirier and from 2014-2018, was not as good as he was in his final 3 fights. Ferguson on the other hand, was significantly better during that period than his final three fights. Therefore, they were pretty much considered choice 1 and choice 1a in the LW division during the period when the UFC attempted to make the fight.
I said it in Jan of 20, based on the fighter he was during the preceding era of his career. Is it getting clearer ?
Which is why I think Khabib should come back while he's still relatively young to answer the question of Oliveira. If he somehow manages to win then that will elevate him to another level in the pantheon of greats. I personally think he wants to retain the undefeated career record, which is why he may not return.
Yeah, it’s pretty clear.
We'll get to see him against the winner of trilogy, but I'm leaning the other way. I think he'd get knocked out before he's able to do anything on the ground, especially against Dustin who's no slouchin that department.
At the end of the day, he has the most submissions in UFC history...by some distance. This is a fact. After that, let the subjective arguments begin.
How could I be wrong, when Khabib and Tony never fought during the period in question ?Yeah, it’s pretty clear.
I can get being hyped up on Oliveira after how he’s looked lately though I still think it’s OTT.
To double down on the Tony comments just smacks of being completely incapable of accepting you were totally wrong.
What question of Oliveira? Nobody thinks that Oliveira is a threat to Khabib because the latter is on another level. The idea that Khabib has to come back to prove himself in any way by beating a man with 8 losses on his record, and that a win against said fighter would elevate him to another level in the pantheon of greats (when Khabib is already discussed as part of the upper tier of all time fighters ) is a little odd.
Nothing like a straw man. Who mentioned infallibility? He still is the greatest lightweight ever by a significant margin and was always the better fighter than Ferguson, by a landslide.
Finishing ones career undefeated is a tremendous thing when people consider fighters in the pantheon of GOATs. Even Jones, has blemishes on his record.
Usman for starters.
Being good on the ground is a waste of time v Khabib. Its not hold v hold, Khabib would lay on top of him and just punch him for 3 minutes. Nobody gets a chance for counters etc because Khabib doesnt have to go for those himself.
Again, the Khabib of 2014-2017/18 was not as good as the Khabib who finished his last three fights as strongly as he did. The Tony of the same period (2014/18) was significantly better than the aging Tony of the past couple of years. Had they fought around 2017, there is simply nothing to indicate either would've had the advantage since Ferguson was at his peak during that time. Would Tony have won ? Possibly not. Would Khabib be guaranteed to rag doll peak Tony for 5 rounds ? Likely not. It would've been a great fight, which is why the UFC went out of its way to make it so many times.
Ofcourse it is. And Khabib is unblimished. Agreeing on the fact that having the greatest record in MMA history is special doesn't lend credence to a wild suggestion that a man who has never lost is afraid of getting that streak broken by a man with 8 losses, and that this is the reason Khabib isn't coming back. That's so outrageous that it's borderline trolling.
Again. Why ask whether Khabib is "guaranteed" to smash someone for 5 rounds. This is a question regarding your post in January 2020 that Ferguson is a better fighter than Khabib and that 'nobody' you spoke to thinks Khabib would have smashed Tony.
This was the general consensus among fighters and pundits in the MMA community. Some people thought Khabib would win, others favored Tony. It wasn't a slam dunk for either by any means.
He has a wrestling background but is viewed as a striker these days. Most of the time in his previous 5 or so fights since Woodley has been in standup.
Agreed. I think Oliveira and Chandler would be excellent opponents for Khabib.
No it wasn't. The MMA community wasn't asked whether Khabib could 'smash' Tony or vice versa. They were asked who they thought they'd win. Just as many thought Justin Gaethje had a chance to win before Khabib beat him with ease last October.
Sure. Just as Conor and Justin were.
Precisely and the fact that some thought one would win and others favored the other, suggests there were conflicting opinions, which means people thought there would be no smashing. If done several years ago, the fight could've literally gone either way.
Yes the tap machine with no ground game and the guy who came within a whisker of guillotining Khabib.
So much wrong here that I'll have to address each point one by one.
The guillotine that Khabib gave Justin to gas his arms before promptly choking him out after accomplishing what he wanted? In the same fight that Khabib dominated start to finish which resulted in Dustin crying about letting people down with his performance, after the fight?
To be fair, I remember many people saying McGregor would have a good chance as he's the much better striker and every round starts on the feet.
This claim can obviously be made after the fact since the two actually fought. Khabib and Tony never fought years ago when the fight was originally scheduled so you can't then make the claim on who would've been better, especially if you're using the rest of their careers (which due to age, were headed in opposite trajectories) as a guide.
I'm giving my opinion, pal. As are you. The difference here is that all the evidence seems to point to the fact that I would be right and you'd be wrong.
This is simply incorrect. There is no evidence because they never fought, so everything you say is subjective and your opinion. If you think I'm backtracking, I'm not - I am actually doubling down on what I previously said - saying in early 2020 that the peak version of Ferguson who built his brand during the preceding 3 or 4 years would've been competitive with Khabib was not a controversial statement during that period of time. Tony came into 2020 riding on a 12 fight win streak in which he where he destroyed the faces of his opponents. That is the version of Tony who would've matched up very evenly with Khabib, who at that time had yet to raise his game to the next level in beating Dustin and Justin.
100%. He is proper MMA and exactly what the UFC needs at this time.
In other words, you're contradicting your previous statement. You made the original claim that Ferguson was the superior fighter. You now claim that nobody can make a claim that any fighter is superior to another unless a fight between the two materialises to prove that statement.
There are no contradictions in my argument, which I've laid out repeatedly. The main point of it all is that Tony v Khabib would've been a great fight at that time, which could've gone either way. Do you disagree ?
I've actually laid out several of your contradictions in that very post. If you'd like to address them, that would be great. If you feel that you don't need to, fair enough as well. We can move on.
I think we've beat this horse to death, so let's agree to disagree and move on.
My only observation here is that the Gaethje fight happened at Khabib's absolute peak, whereas he would've fought Tony several years earlier (let's say around 2016) when he was still working his way up to the level of his final two fights. That Tony would've been quite competitive with that Khabib imo.
But that isn't what you posted. You posted in January 2020 that Tony Ferguson "is a better fighter" than Khabib. You can't decide to change the argument into a 2016 Khabib vs 2016 Tony argument. But since you asked, 2016 Khabib would have decimated 2016 Ferguson just about as badly as 2020 Khabib would have decimated 2020 Tony because Tony Ferguson wasn't any less incompetent at take-down defense in 2016 than he was in 2020.
Correct - in early 2020 based on their respective body of work during the preceding few years during which the UFC were attempting to organize a fight.
yeah wrestling is grappling. Still clearly a far better grappler than Olivera. Then you could say Maia, Valentina, Dos Anjos, Kron, Dern, Jones could probably dig up more.
