feck sake.
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- Thread starter Fortitude
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What a joke 
But it was the same with those judges the whole night.
But it was the same with those judges the whole night.
Feck off did Jon win 3 rounds.
He looks more human than ever
He looks more human than ever
I'm away to bed ffs.
Thats 3 fights in a row on which jones is boring as hell. I got it, he's an effective striker, but i rather the jones that crushed his opponents, not dodgey score cards jones... meh
Tough decision. Could've gone either way imo, which makes it easier to give to the champ
I don't agree with the scoring there at all, and if Jones didn't have the belt I think Reyes would've got the decision.
Jones haters...
Which extra round did that one ref give to jones
48-47 Jones was what I expected (not necessarily saying that’s how I score it, just what I expected them to score it...)
48-47 Jones was what I expected (not necessarily saying that’s how I score it, just what I expected them to score it...)
Jones looked sluggish and slow -- like he couldn't be bothered to be in there. In my opinion he underestimated Reyes.
The scoring system needs to be changed.
What a performance from Reyes though. He should be champion. He will have won a whole bunch of new fans tonight.
I don't understand how that one judge scored it 49-46. 
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This
I agree about the twkedowns, ones like in round 4 really shouldn't count for that much. They're overpowered right now.
Sorry Reyes, not enough to deserve to win on the scorecards when you’re fighting for the title. Jones was the aggressor all fight, didn’t look hurt too much.
Being the aggressor only counts when no one is doing damage.
Jones being the aggressor in the final 3 rounds and the takedowns probably made up for the significant strikes
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I was so impressed with Reyes strength and stamina. Standing up from those takedowns late on.
He kept busy, stayed aggressive and executed a really good game plan. He did enough to win that fight and landed the more meaningful strikes in the first three rounds.
George called it earlier. He lost those first three rounds and needed a finish from that point on. Reyes stayed in it and kept those rounds competitive. If you do enough, you do enough, champion or not.
When Reyes watches that back, he will feel hard done by.
He kept busy, stayed aggressive and executed a really good game plan. He did enough to win that fight and landed the more meaningful strikes in the first three rounds.
George called it earlier. He lost those first three rounds and needed a finish from that point on. Reyes stayed in it and kept those rounds competitive. If you do enough, you do enough, champion or not.
When Reyes watches that back, he will feel hard done by.
Isnt octagon control, aggression etc only applicable when everything is dead even?
Reyes clearly outstruck him for the first 3 rounds. Its hard to say Jon won any of them when they kept it standing and Reyes didnt suffer any damage.
Reyes clearly outstruck him for the first 3 rounds. Its hard to say Jon won any of them when they kept it standing and Reyes didnt suffer any damage.
Takedowns matter if you can make them count beyond your opponent popping straight back up, and Jones pushing forward doesn't constitute him being the "aggressor," especially not when Reyes clearly tagged him a lot and the stats back that up. Even Jones' post-fight interview wreaked of insecurity about the result.
That's what people never seemed to get about Floyd, that fighting on the backfoot is a thing and not every fighter moves forward. If a fighter moving forward sways a decision, people aren't valuing the right things. That should only be critical in judging a fight when there is little to no action.
That's what people never seemed to get about Floyd, that fighting on the backfoot is a thing and not every fighter moves forward. If a fighter moving forward sways a decision, people aren't valuing the right things. That should only be critical in judging a fight when there is little to no action.
Did Reyes do enough to deserve to call himself the champion of the world, and dethrone one of the best fighters in the sports history? No, but he gave A great account of himself and more than earned a rematch.
He took the loss like a champ. Better than me for sure haha. But yeah I agree he might not be happy when finally catches up with the tape.
100%.
He outstruck him over the first 3 rounds and looked to be the clear winner of those.
It shouldn’t matter who Jones is. The joke of a 49-46 card just goes to show that it clearly does in this case.
He probably did but it’s understandable that the champ would get the benefit of the doubt.
Yes, he did, hence why it's being so hotly debated right now. It's the culture to leave it out of the judges' hands because people know they're highly unreliable, but redundant questions about Jones' status and legacy don't change the fact that Reyes can easily claim to have won that fight.
3 was very close. By that time Reyes had slowed down and Jones started to put more pressure on him.
If they're going to give extra points to whoever is champion or whoever has a bigger reputation then they should add that to the rules. Reyes won that 3-2, even Jones clearly knew it.
For me, the pressure was Reyes choosing to counter punch by that stage, which he did to good effect and kept Jones smart. He had every reason to believe he was up on the cards.
Takedowns also were never controlled and resulted in no offense as he bounced straight back up.
In my opinion, there is no way Reyes lost that fight. He executed a game plan really well against one of the best of all time.
If judges are feeling that a decision needs to be more decisive, just because a belt is on the line, that is ridiculous. Fighters now need to go in to a fight with Jones believing that they either need a finish, or to win every round and take risks he doesn’t need to take.
I think Reyes did enough and I think Jones knew it judging by his interview after the decision
Completely agree with this.
Saying you should do even more to beat a champion - more than an already winning effort - is just validating shit judging.
First Santos and now Reyes robbed, Whichever judge scored it 4-1 to Jones needs firing.
49-46 was obviously ridiculous, but that judge aside these close calls normally go way of the champ, it is what it is.
What's up with Jones though? Age catching up with him a little or is he just coasting now? He just seems to be scraping through fights. You can almost guarantee if he was in with a DC or Gus you would see a different fighter.
What's up with Jones though? Age catching up with him a little or is he just coasting now? He just seems to be scraping through fights. You can almost guarantee if he was in with a DC or Gus you would see a different fighter.
More like USADA catching up with him.
Even they can only accept so much pulsing.
Even they can only accept so much pulsing.
Tough to say but this is exactly why I have a big question mark over his career because he hasn't been as explosive since the PED results and all the other stuff. There's no doubt Jones is.a great talent but there's now always going to be a question mark over his head as to whether he was gaining a huge advantage in the past with PEDs.
I still think he needs to go up to Heavyweight at this stage. Two close fights with Reyes and Santos might stop that happening anytime soon though.
Pretty much.
I felt that Reyes slightly edged it in round 3 but I have no complaints all things considered.
I feel that draws need to become more frequent but that's another discussion. Or maybe introduce a tie-breaker of some sort. Judging in general needs to improve.
Jones looked slow and lethargic I felt, either he's having a Rooney-esque decline due to starting at a young age or it's the lack of Mexican supplements.
Fair play to Reyes, put on a great performance.
I said before the fight that Jones would doss and then when (if he got the chance to) he felt Reyes being a legitimate threat, he'd switch to his default (8 points plus Greco), but, for the first time, it didn't work as Reyes simply would not be kept down and showed impressive strength and cardio to constantly get himself back to feet. He was also doing really well with the hands in the first couple of rounds, but Jones' concerted pressure slowed him down by the 3rd.
I feel people get taken in by Rogan's whooping and hollering, despite Crux calling the action correctly; Reyes was not landing with potency and frequency beyond the 3rd, but Rogan "OH! BIG SHOT!" *n would suggest otherwise whilst Cruz calmly and succinctly states that Jones is slipping most of the shots and deflecting the power away. The impression left is Reyes is bam bamming all over the place when in fact the tide in the fight was subtlety turning in Jones' favour.
3-2 for Jones, imo, but I actually think a draw would have been the fair call.
After seeing Jones struggle in this fight even when he took it up to his full capacity, I think it's fair to say he isn't the same fighter as he was in terms of explosiveness and timing (pouncing on a moment), but whether that's down to age, lack of prep, USADA, not taking opponents seriously from the outset or a myriad of other things or even a culmination of them all, is so hard to tell. More the fact when [attempting] to go up the gears, he wasn't head and shoulders above Reyes is where I wonder what's going on, not necessarily in how he started off. A rematch would be very interesting as, if he was the same in that, there'd definitely be a case to state that this is simply not the same guy.
The way he's fighting now, though, heavyweight cannot be on the cards - he'd get destroyed up there trying to walk down guys with that kind of power.
Oh, and once again, I think it's fair to say he has one of the best chins in the sport, that as well as his pain threshold to the legs and body.
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Don't know if there's any point talking about Valentina; she's in a class of her own, and unlike Jones, never plays around in there.
I feel people get taken in by Rogan's whooping and hollering, despite Crux calling the action correctly; Reyes was not landing with potency and frequency beyond the 3rd, but Rogan "OH! BIG SHOT!" *n would suggest otherwise whilst Cruz calmly and succinctly states that Jones is slipping most of the shots and deflecting the power away. The impression left is Reyes is bam bamming all over the place when in fact the tide in the fight was subtlety turning in Jones' favour.
3-2 for Jones, imo, but I actually think a draw would have been the fair call.
After seeing Jones struggle in this fight even when he took it up to his full capacity, I think it's fair to say he isn't the same fighter as he was in terms of explosiveness and timing (pouncing on a moment), but whether that's down to age, lack of prep, USADA, not taking opponents seriously from the outset or a myriad of other things or even a culmination of them all, is so hard to tell. More the fact when [attempting] to go up the gears, he wasn't head and shoulders above Reyes is where I wonder what's going on, not necessarily in how he started off. A rematch would be very interesting as, if he was the same in that, there'd definitely be a case to state that this is simply not the same guy.
The way he's fighting now, though, heavyweight cannot be on the cards - he'd get destroyed up there trying to walk down guys with that kind of power.
Oh, and once again, I think it's fair to say he has one of the best chins in the sport, that as well as his pain threshold to the legs and body.
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Don't know if there's any point talking about Valentina; she's in a class of her own, and unlike Jones, never plays around in there.
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It probably could have gone either way in the third, but obviously the default is to give it to the champ. I’d have to watch it again, but really don’t have the desire to do so.
I felt like Jones did more damage in 4/5 than Reyes did in 1/2, which is one of the problems with this scoring system. 10-9s can be massively different.
Heavyweight would be a terrible idea for Jones, unless he gets to handpick his opponents.
I felt like Jones did more damage in 4/5 than Reyes did in 1/2, which is one of the problems with this scoring system. 10-9s can be massively different.
Heavyweight would be a terrible idea for Jones, unless he gets to handpick his opponents.
Maybe heavyweight means he puts more focus in, but yeah, its a big risk given his last couple of fights.
Find it a bit baffling how drug cheats are often given a pass among MMA fans, in terms of how they and their legacies are assessed.
Learned that the hard way with Lance in cycling. They swore until they were blue in the face that he was clean and just an intense, motivated guy. When it came out that he wasn't, the argument immediately switched to how much he had done for charity and raising awareness, as if that was somehow relevant.
Once people have sworn an allegiance to a cause, group or individual, it's nigh on impossible to shake them of their biases. Find a hole in the arguments and it's immediately patched up.