The MMA thread

[poleglass red]

https://i.imgur.com/WxCKCJR.jpg

Hope that works. this was very start of prelims, you can see a decent number of people in already, probably not totally doing it justice as my section was pretty much totally filled

 

[G-manc]

Gonna fight Tim Elliot in Manchester in 2 weeks.

I think it's in Canada mate.

 

[George Owen]

I think it's in Canada mate.

Cheers! Yep, was looking the card and has some really nice fights.

Ponzinibio/Perry, RDA/Lawler among others.

 

[Skizzo]

https://i.imgur.com/WxCKCJR.jpg

Hope that works. this was very start of prelims, you can see a decent number of people in already, probably not totally doing it justice as my section was pretty much totally filled

 

[The Bloody-Nine]

A Twitch user streamed the entire card by pretending he was playing UFC3.

 

[Raoul]

 

[EdWeatherall]

It's interesting that people talk about Miocic's power, but not his chin. The guy gets hit, and rocked, a lot - Overeem dropped him and even Stephan Struve rocked him all over the place:

and they're baby pats compared to Ngannou. When it comes to punch absorption and resistance, Roy Nelson or Mark Hunt, Stipe is not.

I will be amazed if Stipe comes out of that Ngannou fight with anything other than discombobulation off the back of concussion, as stylistically, it's a terrible matchup for him.

Is it you?
Are you Struve? Giving yourself a not so subtle pat on back

 

[Lastwolf]

Would have a differing opinion on that. His last few knockout wins have come against Arlovski, Dos Santos and Hunt. I'd only put Hunt there who I feel has a decently strong chin (although I think Hunt got Ko'd by a knee).

Pre USADA, Overeem had deadly power. Post USADA and age has greatly diminished that. But then, hey that's my opinion and could be completely wrong. I wouldn't want to get punched by him in the face. I'll probably die.

He still has the power, his confidence isn't the same (maybe due to lack of horsemeat and brazilian suppliments), he's fought smarter the last 2 years+ to protect his weak chin, means he doesn't commit as much.

But you might be right with the age thing also he is 37 odd, which even for a HW is the back 9.

 

[Fortitude]

Is it you?
Are you Struve? Giving yourself a not so subtle pat on back

Feck, busted.

 

[Fortitude]

Ngannou vs Miocic confirmed for Jan 20th UFC 220.

Oh boy... I actually don't wanna make jokes about this one because they could actually end up being in bad taste.

 

[Raoul]

That's a pretty quick turnaround for Ngannou given he just fought last weekend.

 

[Fortitude]

Cashing in. Throwing Stipe to the lion at the same time as negating the need to pay him champ of the division money beyond this fight.

Dana is a ruthless, greedy man.

 

[RedRevongge]

That's a pretty quick turnaround for Ngannou given he just fought last weekend.

It's quick but I suppose the fight against Overeem was pretty quick so he should still be fresh.

The tough part for Ngannou is having to go through another training camp so quickly after I would guess. I suppose the only advantage for heavyweights is they get to avoid going through the weightcut

 

[Andersons Dietician]

She was talking about going down to 125lbs.

She could be champion there in no time. Her opponents would be the likes of Bec Rawlings, Paige VanZant, Jessica Eye, etc, plus the girls from the last TUF.

She is a little small for 135 but she says it’s a better challenge for her so I’d imagine 125 is her natural home. Think most of the 115 girls will be jumping to that 125 along with Gadelhia, Andrade and probably Joanna so sort of kills the 115 division. The 125 is likely to become the division in the woman’s weight classes I would expect and a lot of the 115’s will probably do a lot better at 125 not having to cut so badly that they are basically killing themselves.

 

[George Owen]

She is a little small for 135 but she says it’s a better challenge for her so I’d imagine 125 is her natural home. Think most of the 115 girls will be jumping to that 125 along with Gadelhia, Andrade and probably Joanna so sort of kills the 115 division. The 125 is likely to become the division in the woman’s weight classes I would expect and a lot of the 115’s will probably do a lot better at 125 not having to cut so badly that they are basically killing themselves.

Not only that, if Valentina gets the belt soon enough and start defending it (raking up numbers), she can become a big name, just like Joanna, fighting tin cans in her division.

Also, she would set herself up to superfights vs the 115 and the 135 champion.

The fight to be the first woman to win 2 different weightclass belts has already started. (Holly Holm getting the first chance)

Mackenzie Dern and many others will probably land in this division as well. (The 115 division is fecked)

Bottom line, would be the best decision for Valentina going down now. Better to be the champion in one division than a gate keeper in other.

 

[Raoul]

115 fighters going to 125 and the likes of Valentina leaving BW to go to 125 is probably a good reason why 125 shouldn't exist. It would deplete much an entire division of talent (115) and take one of the best fighters at 135 out of the division, at which point that division is instantly weakened. Also, does anyone really have any interest in watching Shevchenko beat the hell out o the likes of Joanna and Gadhelia ? Didn't think so.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Not only that, if Valentina gets the belt soon enough and start defending it (raking up numbers), she can become a big name, just like Joanna, fighting tin cans in her division.

Also, she would set herself up to superfights vs the 115 and the 135 champion.

The fight to be the first woman to win 2 different weightclass belts has already started. (Holly Holm getting the first chance)

Mackenzie Dern and many others will probably land in this division as well. (The 115 division is fecked)

Bottom line, would be the best decision for Valentina going down now. Better to be the champion in one division than a gate keeper in other.

Very true, it makes no sense to give her a fight against Nunes straight away. Although for me she won there last fight, but clearly the judges value aggression over actual skill.

She was calling out Paige about that title shot but Paige is fighting Rose-Clarke now I think. So you would think unless Joanna says she wants a shot at Montoya then first up would be Schevchenko. Although I’m sure Montoya said she had a broken foot in camp and I’m not sure she was fully recovered. She could be out for a bit. Some of the girls in the 125 TUF were pretty decent.

Christ thinking about it Andrade probably would have a good shot at getting a title shot. Gadeliha is probably licking her lips at the prospect of a fight with Rose and so would Andrade. 125 is going to be stacked, I can’t wait.

I’ve only seen Highlights of Dern recently, how is her striking coming along?

 

[Andersons Dietician]

115 fighters going to 125 and the likes of Valentina leaving BW to go to 125 is probably a good reason why 125 shouldn't exist. It would deplete much an entire division of talent (115) and take one of the best fighters at 135 out of the division, at which point that division is instantly weakened. Also, does anyone really have any interest in watching Shevchenko beat the hell out o the likes of Joanna and Gadhelia ? Didn't think so.

Yeah but most of the girls at 115 have to kill themselves to get there and Schevechko is undersized for 135 and has said she couldn’t make 115. You have fighters like JoJo, Joanna, Andrade, Leturno, Casey,Torres all too big for 115 and the cut affecting their performances. Plus this way you’ll get people jumping weight classes. To make more intresting fights.

Side note I think Schevchenko has already beaten Joanna 5 times in Mhuy Thai. She does have some sort of incredible record where I think she has only lost 3 times and won something like 58.
Gahdelia and Andrade would be a challenge for most people in any of the divisions up to 135 easily.

 

[Raoul]

Yeah but most of the girls at 115 have to kill themselves to get there and Schevechko is undersized for 135 and has said she couldn’t make 115. You have fighters like JoJo, Joanna, Andrade, Leturno, Casey,Torres all too big for 115 and the cut affecting their performances. Plus this way you’ll get people jumping weight classes. To make more intresting fights.

Either way, there aren't enough quality female fighters to populate more than 2 divisions. Its either 115 and 135 or 125 and 135. There aren't going to be enough fighters to keep the public's interest in 3 or 4 female divisions.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Either way, there aren't enough quality female fighters to populate more than 2 divisions. Its either 115 and 135 or 125 and 135. There aren't going to be enough fighters to keep the public's interest in 3 or 4 female divisions.

There are probably people we’ve never heard of in a gym somewhere or fighting in other promotions that will come through. Look at Dana’s new favourite from Alpha male. She came from nowhere has 3 fights in a few months and is one of the most intresting girls in the division.

 

[George Owen]

I’ve only seen Highlights of Dern recently, how is her striking coming along?

Probably shit , like 99.9% of the women in UFC, but this girls can't strike that hard (like the 135 pounders), so Wrestling and BJJ is the best weapon for sure.

In the TUF final if I'm not mistaken, there were like 3-4 armbars from the flyweight women... so i definitly see her doing alright.


But more than her skill, its the name, the hype behind her and her look , that make for interesting match ups money wise speaking, that these days is almost as important as the competition itself.

 

[Raoul]

There are probably people we’ve never heard of in a gym somewhere or fighting in other promotions that will come through. Look at Dana’s new favourite from Alpha male. She came from nowhere has 3 fights in a few months and is one of the most intresting girls in the division.

Yeah but bear in mind that the shelf lives of top fighters aren't that long. In the past year, UFC has lost Rousey and Tate - their two biggest female fighters. They have gained the likes of Cyborg and Shevchenko, but those two can't make up for the types of numbers Rousey brought in. UFC needs solid 125 fighters - as in not fighters who have to be imported from other divisions to make it appear like 125 is legitimate.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Yeah but bear in mind that the shelf lives of top fighters aren't that long. In the past year, UFC has lost Rousey and Tate - their two biggest female fighters. They have gained the likes of Cyborg and Shevchenko, but those two can't make up for the types of numbers Rousey brought in. UFC needs solid 125 fighters - as in not fighters who have to be imported from other divisions to make it appear like 125 is legitimate.

It’s very unlikely another Ronda will ever come along she was the perfect character at the right time with a decent skill set that at the time was far superior to any competition she had to face. Arguably now there are far better fighters than her in a few of the weight classes.

Mackenzie Dern that @George Owen is speaking of could possibly be ridiculously marketable, she has a look and a skill set in BJJ which is probably way beyond anyone and a lot of the top class men in UFC. But again like we discussed with Ronda and Schevchenko the skill set in even Just the last 2years in the woman’s UFC has increased so rapidly that Rouseys basic skill set of grab and armbar would be hard to implement now.

Anyway with those ladies moving to their more natural weight it might free up space for more woman to come in and make a name for themselves. 125 is going to be legitimate as like I said most of the top class ladies in 125 will be at a more comfortable weight. Andrade,Joanna,Gahdelia are all big for that division Karolina will probably go up as well so that’s 5 of the top 6. There are people like Barb Honchaak in the 125 division, it’s going to be incredible in there.
Also now that I think about it that girl Sunna could probably get called up to 115 now. There are lots of female fighters of quality ready to fill out that division.

Basically with all the 115’s going to a better weight we will get far better fights and performances and things like champions taking on champions and what not. To me there is absolutely no downside to the 125, infact it will most likely be a huge improvement.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Probably shit , like 99.9% of the women in UFC, but this girls can't strike that hard (like the 135 pounders), so Wrestling and BJJ is the best weapon for sure.

In the TUF final if I'm not mistaken, there were like 3-4 armbars from the flyweight women... so i definitly see her doing alright.


But more than her skill, its the name, the hype behind her and her look , that make for interesting match ups money wise speaking, that these days is almost as important as the competition itself.

I find the woman’s fights more intresting a lot of the times, take that TUF finale for example, neither were particularly great at striking but they were willing to stand and trade and it was awesome. Although Roxy put some really nice combos together they just looked weird and robotic instead of flowing.

Dern tho, if she can get a hold of people then I would thing she’ll take a few limbs home as trophies. Landscape has changed a lot from when Ronda was so dominant and the quality of the MMA displayed has moved on from simply grab take down armbar.

 

[George Owen]

Speaking of her, she was just doping the weigh'ins for her invicta fight tomorrow. She gave another go at 115. (115.9)

 

[Raoul]

It’s very unlikely another Ronda will ever come along she was the perfect character at the right time with a decent skill set that at the time was far superior to any competition she had to face. Arguably now there are far better fighters than her in a few of the weight classes.

Mackenzie Dern that @George Owen is speaking of could possibly be ridiculously marketable, she has a look and a skill set in BJJ which is probably way beyond anyone and a lot of the top class men in UFC. But again like we discussed with Ronda and Schevchenko the skill set in even Just the last 2years in the woman’s UFC has increased so rapidly that Rouseys basic skill set of grab and armbar would be hard to implement now.

Anyway with those ladies moving to their more natural weight it might free up space for more woman to come in and make a name for themselves. 125 is going to be legitimate as like I said most of the top class ladies in 125 will be at a more comfortable weight. Andrade,Joanna,Gahdelia are all big for that division Karolina will probably go up as well so that’s 5 of the top 6. There are people like Barb Honchaak in the 125 division, it’s going to be incredible in there.
Also now that I think about it that girl Sunna could probably get called up to 115 now. There are lots of female fighters of quality ready to fill out that division.

Basically with all the 115’s going to a better weight we will get far better fights and performances and things like champions taking on champions and what not. To me there is absolutely no downside to the 125, infact it will most likely be a huge improvement.

I don't think there's a weight issue for the current fighters at 115. Fighters occasionally struggling to make weight is a fairly normal thing across all of MMA. In the present, there simply aren't enough fighters to to move to 125 without decimating 115, and like I said before, no one is interested in watching Valentina Shevchenko go down and dominate a small group of 115 fighters at 125. If there are about 10 credible fighters who can help populate 125 and a few more new ones who can keep 115 vaguely interesting then there would be a chance, but right now that doesn't exist. Exact same thing can be said of the 145 division. They tried it and it didn't work and now the likes of Holm and De Randamie are back at 135,

 

[Andersons Dietician]

I don't think there's a weight issue for the current fighters at 115. Fighters occasionally struggling to make weight is a fairly normal thing across all of MMA. In the present, there simply aren't enough fighters to to move to 125 without decimating 115, and like I said before, no one is interested in watching Valentina Shevchenko go down and dominate a small group of 115 fighters at 125. If there are about 10 credible fighters who can help populate 125 and a few more new ones who can keep 115 vaguely interesting then there would be a chance, but right now that doesn't exist. Exact same thing can be said of the 145 division. They tried it and it didn't work and now the likes of Holm and De Randamie are back at 135,

I think you should just go and do a quick search on the pics of Paige cutting weight and look through some of the interviews it’s the other fighters. They’ve long requested for a 125 division. Also a reason why Gadelhia and Joanna weren’t in TUF enough when Carla Esparza won the belt as neither thought they could make the weight 3 times in such a short turn around.

It’s also not just about fighters missing weight a couple of times, it’s about their health and how much it depletes them to stay at 115 and how much better they will be able to perform at 125. Also nothing is set in stone that Schevchenko would dominate that division.

They had a trial run with JoJo and Letourneau and it was a great fight and both looked way more comfortable at that weight and here is what Joanna said about it.

"It was a good fight between Valerie and JoJo, the first catchweight at 125, but I think we need that division. So many girls from bantamweight can go down, so many girls from strawweight division can go up. So we should make that division the next division."

Asked who would be a contender to fight her for the inaugural 125-pound belt, Jedrzejczyk said it didn't matter.

"I don't know," she said. "I want to be the first champion of the 125-pound division."

Also what a load of rubbish, Holme is fighting Cyborg next for the title and Randamine is still recovering from hand surgery. There are fights there for that division and Baaars was supposed to be training MMA and has beaten Cyborg in Muay Thai.

I can’t remeber the other girl who is injured but her name begins with an M. She was supposed to fight Cyborg recently.
Make the divisions and give people the opportunity to make a living from it and the talent will come through as these people will hopefully now be able to train full time instead of supplementing their income with jobs interupotingntheir training. 125 is good for everyone.

Also after a quick search a list came up of the top 100 female fighters at 115 so their are certainly bodies there to take spots.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

I wonder where Meghan Anderson has gone.

 

[MoneyMay]

feck Salthold for getting us in this mess.

 

[Oggmonster]

feck Salthold for getting us in this mess.

In a weird way that fight has probably sorted the whole division out though.

Bisping is no longer champion and GSP has vacated the belt. the current best MW is now the undisputed champion and the second best is fighting him. Bisping is gone in March, I imagine if GSP fights again he drops down to WW, it frees the division up for some of the better fighters they have there.

 

[El General 1994]

If Heather Hardy was in the UFC, she could be a big star.

Let's see if Bellator do anything with her.

 

[EdWeatherall]

In a weird way that fight has probably sorted the whole division out though.

Bisping is no longer champion and GSP has vacated the belt. the current best MW is now the undisputed champion and the second best is fighting him. Bisping is gone in March, I imagine if GSP fights again he drops down to WW, it frees the division up for some of the better fighters they have there.

Bet Bisping regrets the Gastelum fight now. Not saying he’d have got a rematch shot. But could have gone away had another fight perhaps on same card with a view to fighting winner. Seems very distant now

 

[Oggmonster]

Bet Bisping regrets the Gastelum fight now. Not saying he’d have got a rematch shot. But could have gone away had another fight perhaps on same card with a view to fighting winner. Seems very distant now

Yeah perhaps, was an awful move taking that Gastelum fight, far to soon really.

Albeit the London card he wants to retire on is in March isn't it? The Whittaker fight is in Feb, I'd imagine it'd be to quick of a turnaround if he fought Feb and then March.

 

[Raoul]

If Heather Hardy was in the UFC, she could be a big star.

Let's see if Bellator do anything with her.

Her only problem is she can't fight. She's basically a boxer who is dabbling in a bit of late career MMA.

 

[Raoul]

Bet Bisping regrets the Gastelum fight now. Not saying he’d have got a rematch shot. But could have gone away had another fight perhaps on same card with a view to fighting winner. Seems very distant now

I don't think Bisping is concerned with fighting for the title. He is retiring and wants to make as much easy money as he can prior to leaving the sport in a few months.

 

[Raoul]

feck Salthold for getting us in this mess.

Whitaker - Rockhold is the best match up. I think Rockhold is the best fighter in the division and will reclaim the belt.

 

[EdWeatherall]

I don't think Bisping is concerned with fighting for the title. He is retiring and wants to make as much easy money as he can prior to leaving the sport in a few months.

Those two things wouldn’t be different things if he hadn’t lost to Gastellum

 

[George Owen]

Whitaker - Rockhold is the best match up. I think Rockhold is the best fighter in the division and will reclaim the belt.

Rockhold gonna get KO'd again hehehe

 

[Raoul]

Rockhold gonna get KO'd again hehehe

He's the best fighter in the division. If Whitaker wins then I will be mightily impressed.

 

[Raoul]

Those two things wouldn’t be different things if he hadn’t lost to Gastellum

Two reasons he fought Gastelum

- Money
- The credibility to be in the UFC's best graces so he could then set his own retirement fight in London on his own terms.