The MMA thread

Oggmonster said:
Because they obviously do? Unless you want me to scientifically prove it which unfortunately I can't do. Sorry.
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Oh ok, I thought there was some revelation about fighters being on PEDs that I hadn't heard about.

I think there are far less fighters on it than some may suspect, as the cost benefit in terms of financial loss is far more in favor of fighters avoiding it. Nobody can afford to be out of the sport for a year or more just for a slight gain in cardio. Therefore now, especially with the more randomly stringent protocols from USADA, it just wouldn't make much sense for fighters to risk their careers over something like this.
 
Vato said:
As long as they aren't doing the damage to me I don't really care. I say let them all juice.
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We aren't talking track and field or something though. We're talking a combat sport where people's lives can be effected. Juicing can give a fighter numerous advantages to hurting their opponent. It might not happen often but people can get legit hurt, have their careers ended etc so it is kind of a big deal when you have somebody cheating the system to gain an advantage.

How many fighters are doing that and which ones is a different discussion but it's a huge deal and the more they clamp down on it and get rid of the cheaters the better.
 
JP77 said:
We aren't talking track and field or something though. We're talking a combat sport where people's lives can be effected. Juicing can give a fighter numerous advantages to hurting their opponent. It might not happen often but people can get legit hurt, have their careers ended etc so it is kind of a big deal when you have somebody cheating the system to gain an advantage.

How many fighters are doing that and which ones is a different discussion but it's a huge deal and the more they clamp down on it and get rid of the cheaters the better.
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The same can be said of boxing and NFL. Nearly all of the long term repercussions of these sports stem from the fact that they are full contact and people take protracted blows to the head over a long periods of time. That's where the real danger is imo.
 
Raoul said:
Oh ok, I thought there was some revelation about fighters being on PEDs that I hadn't heard about.

I think there are far less fighters on it than some may suspect, as the cost benefit in terms of financial loss is far more in favor of fighters avoiding it. Nobody can afford to be out of the sport for a year or more just for a slight gain in cardio. Therefore now, especially with the more randomly stringent protocols from USADA, it just wouldn't make much sense for fighters to risk their careers over something like this.
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No but it's equally a bit of common sense there's obviously drug cheats getting away with it in the majority of sports including MMA. It seems an odd thing to argue as it's come up plenty of times in the past and no one has ever batted an eye lid.

Maybe there is but equally there will be fighters on it getting away with it. If you're asking what's my proof that fighters are taking steroids then what's the proof there aren't many on it as people think??
 
Oggmonster said:
No but it's equally a bit of common sense there's obviously drug cheats getting away with it in the majority of sports including MMA. It seems an odd thing to argue as it's come up plenty of times in the past and no one has ever batted an eye lid.

Maybe there is but equally there will be fighters on it getting away with it. If you're asking what's my proof that fighters are taking steroids then what's the proof there aren't many on it as people think??
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There may or may not be - I certaily don't know either way, so I don't think its a good idea to slander random fighters based on a particular look they have. The only exception would be Lesnar when he came back to fight Hunt, since PEDs are routinely used in WWE and Lesnar wound up predictably popping for them.
 
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Raoul said:
There may or may not be - I certaily don't know either way, so I don't think its a good idea to slander random fighters based on a particular look they have. The only exception would be Lesnar when he came back to fight Hunt, since PEDs are routinely used in WWE and Lesnar wound up predictably popping for them.
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There was never any objection to slander when McGregor was routinely called a coke head and a rapist in here though? With there being no proof except accusations of it....never seen that questioned but when it's a fighter people like it seems slanderous.

Don't WWE have drug tests to? So surely they'd catch them all like USADA apparently do?
 
Oggmonster said:
There was never any objection to slander when McGregor was routinely called a coke head and a rapist in here though? With there being no proof except accusations of it....never seen that questioned but when it's a fighter people like it seems slanderous.

Don't WWE have drug tests to? So surely they'd catch them all like USADA apparently do?
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The WWE's program is notoriously poor. USADA is more comprehensive.
 
Oggmonster said:
USADA have been slated loads recently haven't they? Machida, Jones, JDS, Barnett even Romero criticised them didn't they?!
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Why would it matter if a fighter criticizes a testing protocol ? If anything, its a good thing as it would be a testament to how stringent and comprehensive they are.
 
Raoul said:
Why would it matter if a fighter criticizes a testing protocol ? If anything, its a good thing as it would be a testament to how stringent and comprehensive they are.
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Huh?? JDS for example got round to be doing nothing wrong and got banned cos of USADA. Surely that shows their tests have flaws?
 
Oggmonster said:
There was never any objection to slander when McGregor was routinely called a coke head and a rapist in here though? With there being no proof except accusations of it....never seen that questioned but when it's a fighter people like it seems slanderous.

Don't WWE have drug tests to? So surely they'd catch them all like USADA apparently do?
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WWE wellness policy is just an insurance thing. Everyone already assumed it and the Brock Lesnar thing proved it.

Yoel might be juicing or he might not be. He was on the Olympics and tests there are super strict, but he never failed.

The test he failed at UFC was a supplement that didn't register all ingredients, which was proven by usada, hence why he didn't get a ban.

He cheats in the cage, everyone knows this but it's harsh to call him a PED user because of his physique.

In terms of fighters hating on usada, is not their testing policy, it's their punishment system. Machida got a year I think based off something so miniscule yet Jones got a slap on the wrist.
 
Raoul said:
The same can be said of boxing and NFL. Nearly all of the long term repercussions of these sports stem from the fact that they are full contact and people take protracted blows to the head over a long periods of time. That's where the real danger is imo.
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There's no real denying that but what we are talking about here is performance enhancing drugs, they do exactly what they say, they enhance your performance. You move quicker, hit quicker, hit harder, defend better...everything. it's performance enhancing and that's why we are talking a completely different category of fish between something like athletics and fighting.

The idea that they should all use PED's or that it's not a big deal is mental. You're first effecting legit clean fighters careers and spitting in the face of their legit hard work. But most importantly you're putting them in danger. Of course it's a contact sport already, but that's exactly why cheating with PEDs is even worst in a sport like this or boxing and shouldn't be brushed aside.

So the danger is blows to the head as you say. A fighter taking PEDs is enhancing his performance to potentially produce more of those than a legit clean fighter.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
WWE wellness policy is just an insurance thing. Everyone already assumed it and the Brock Lesnar thing proved it.

Yoel might be juicing or he might not be. He was on the Olympics and tests there are super strict, but he never failed.

The test he failed at UFC was a supplement that didn't register all ingredients, which was proven by usada, hence why he didn't get a ban.

He cheats in the cage, everyone knows this but it's harsh to call him a PED user because of his physique.

In terms of fighters hating on usada, is not their testing policy, it's their punishment system. Machida got a year I think based off something so miniscule yet Jones got a slap on the wrist.
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The Olympics is pretty well known for drug cheats isn't it? There's plenty of documentaries about it.

Being proven with supplements seems a bit of an excuse, basically find a supplement containing the thing you popped for and there you go.

The whole harsh cos of his how his body looks is maybe a fair comment but it's equally fair to suggest you would struggle to get s body like that naturally. As I also said before (and it was ignored) I didn't hear many people saying it was "harsh" to call McGregor a coke addict and rapist, suggesting fighters people don't like it's ok to slag off.

My point re USADA was that it isnt s perfect system and clearly doesn't work 100% of the time which was implied earlier
 
Oggmonster said:
As I also said before (and it was ignored) I didn't hear many people saying it was "harsh" to call McGregor a coke addict and rapist, suggesting fighters people don't like it's ok to slag off.
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But you are doing exactly that tbf. I don't like McGregor at all but you won't find a single post of mine where I called him a cokehead, rapist or anything else that wasn't proven.

I believe we should only judge people by what we know for fact.
 
Vato said:
I believe we should only judge people by what we know for fact.
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Personally i prefer to judge people by what i think they are like ;)

Wouldn't call people rapists and such without knowing,though.
 
Vato said:
But you are doing exactly that tbf. I don't like McGregor at all but you won't find a single post of mine where I called him a cokehead, rapist or anything else that wasn't proven.

I believe we should only judge people by what we know for fact.
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I didn't specify you said it to be fair....my point was that people in this thread have said it's unfair to accuse someone like Romero of being on steroids but never batted an eyelid and happily joined in conversations of McGregor being called a rapist. Backing up my point that when a fighter is likeable (in this case people like Romero) they will turn a blind eye to other stuff such as cheating.
 
Yeah I can't see him losing. Reyes is decent but I'd argue he lost to Volkan. Can't see Jones struggling to much with him to be honest. Never know though
 
Will say it again: if he goes in there mimicking Reyes' style and tries to outright outbox him, he's going to lose.

If he takes him seriously and just fights, he'll win comfortably.
 
Masvidal is sick; but I think Usman's wrestling, engine and chin tilts it in his favour.

Big Izzy fan so hope things go to plan there, the Khabib-Ferguson fight is where it's at. And then probably a rematch with Connor in Saudi, depending on the result. He might even feck the Connor fight off for an exhibition with Mayweather instead.

A dub for Jones.
 
Oggmonster said:
Yeah I can't see him losing. Reyes is decent but I'd argue he lost to Volkan. Can't see Jones struggling to much with him to be honest. Never know though
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Volkan definitely hard done by against Reyes. I thought he won handily.

Jones will handle Reyes like all the others - with ease.
 
I think Reyes looks nervous in the pressers and pre-fight exchanges. He needs to get a grip on that before Saturday night or he risks being blown away.

People are forgetting though that Jones struggled against Santos and Reyes probably hits just as hard, but a lot more accurately.

I think Jones will fight a very cautious fight and probably submit him in the later rounds, but he has to be careful.

Reyes is extremely agile for such a big man, and at his size, you only need one punch to change the fight completely.

Jones fans won’t like it, but he needs to do his best to avoid eye pokes from Jones extending his hand. He needs to find a way to avoid that while not opening himself up to counters.
 
Maluco said:
I think Reyes looks nervous in the pressers and pre-fight exchanges. He needs to get a grip on that before Saturday night or he risks being blown away.

People are forgetting though that Jones struggled against Santos and Reyes probably hits just as hard, but a lot more accurately.

I think Jones will fight a very cautious fight and probably submit him in the later rounds, but he has to be careful.

Reyes is extremely agile for such a big man, and at his size, you only need one punch to change the fight completely.

Jones fans won’t like it, but he needs to do his best to avoid eye pokes from Jones extending his hand. He needs to find a way to avoid that while not opening himself up to counters.
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Just getting inside that damn oblique kick from Jones would be an achievement in itself. Plus, Reyes doesn't have particularly long reach, so he's got his work cut out just trying to penetrate what is essentially a forcefield, ahem.
 
RedFish said:
Just getting inside that damn oblique kick from Jones would be an achievement in itself. Plus, Reyes doesn't have particularly long reach, so he's got his work cut out just trying to penetrate what is essentially a forcefield, ahem.
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Absolutely! That’s another massive weapon in his arsenal and he is vicious with it. It is a career shortener for sure.

Not to mention the superior wrestling. It’s going to be a tough night for Reyes, but if he can rattle Jones early with a big punch, even best laid plans can go out the window.

Reyes has a dangerous high kick as well, which is a weapon that Santos didn’t have and creates another angle of attack that Jones needs to be aware of.

Not to mention his bad breath in the clinch :D
 
Maluco said:
Absolutely! That’s another massive weapon in his arsenal and he is vicious with it. It is a career shortener for sure.

Not to mention the superior wrestling. It’s going to be a tough night for Reyes, but if he can rattle Jones early with a big punch, even best laid plans can go out the window.

Reyes has a dangerous high kick as well, which is a weapon that Santos didn’t have and creates another angle of attack that Jones needs to be aware of.

Not to mention his bad breath in the clinch :D
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Don't get this dialogue between you two.
 
Maluco said:
What do you not get about it?
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That Jones has been taking the piss in the octagon for ages now and deviating as far as possible from his own style to win fights in his opponent's style just because he can. So a lot of the stuff you're talking about, do you really think he'll do it, or is this just a broader breakdown of Jones, the fighter?
 
Fortitude said:
That Jones has been taking the piss in the octagon for ages now and deviating as far as possible from his own style to win fights in his opponent's style just because he can. So a lot of the stuff you're talking about, do you really think he'll do it, or is this just a broader breakdown of Jones, the fighter?
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I guess it’s a difference of opinion. I don’t think he is taking the piss. I think he is fighting more cautiously. He isn’t the dynamic, young, explosive upstart he once was. I think we are saying the same thing from a different perspective.

It’s also impossible to discount that he isn’t at that same level post-usada either. His body has changed shape in a drastic fashion.

I think he is a smart and tactical fighter though. But he is aggressive and that anger can sometimes lead to him making emotional decisions in fights.

I think that is Reyes chance to beat him. If he goes in emotional and starts swinging, he could lose.

Reyes is dangerous though. My points were more that he is better than people think he is. He is a more accurate puncher than Santos and has a dangerous high kick. Santos did very well, and I think Reyes is better than Santos.

I am definitely intrigued for the fight.
 
Fortitude said:
Don't get this dialogue between you two.
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Fortitude said:
That Jones has been taking the piss in the octagon for ages now and deviating as far as possible from his own style to win fights in his opponent's style just because he can. So a lot of the stuff you're talking about, do you really think he'll do it, or is this just a broader breakdown of Jones, the fighter?
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Maybe you're overstating this playing the opponent at their own game a littre?

As far as I can see, hes fairly consistent at aiming to hit hard and preferably injure and disable his opponent. He doesn't give a damn in the Octagon. The cap kicks and spinning back kicks are fairly predictable now but who the feck can do anything about them?

You know what you're going to get, just like Anthony Smith but they all find out that it's virtually impossible to implement your own game plan when faced with debilatating/jarring attack/defence in one.
 
OK, Jones has said it out of his own mouth just post last fight?

Personally, I don;t think we've seen the 'real' Jones since he K.O'd Cormier and pummeled Gus. I wouldn't put it down to USDA or ageing, personally, just him being him and enjoying doing the unthinkable.

I see the conversation you guys are having and just wonder if it's based on 'prime' or 'switched on' Jones, or even a Jones fully respecting his opponent, or the Jones, who I am 50/50 in thinking he'll go out there and try and beat Reyes at Reyes' strengths (boxing), but I guess we'll see.
 
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