The Modern / Current Players Draft

antohan

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Annahnomoss said:
Can't disagree about the yellow card moment that is something one can't overlook when judging him. Makes for another interesting perspective where Silva shines, where most people wouldn't think.

He's only ever been sent off once, and that red card card was a huge referee blunder and had nothing to do with the game. The referee ran in to Silva's chest and got scared and gave Silva a red.

Very rarely collects yellows too, averaging 1-2 yellows a league season - something like 1 yellow every 15 games. In the national cups he has the same ratio pretty much, only ever collected two since moving to Europe. In the Champions League it is also 1 in 15 matches, and for the national team he's collected 1 in 10 pretty much.

Those are some incredible statistics to be fair. Boateng has 5 reds/37 yellows in 223 games in league play. 6 in 20 in the national cups, 16 yellows in 76 games in European cups and 8 yellows and 1 red in 52 games for Germany.

As he's improved massively we can single out just this season for interest and he has 8 yellows and a red in 52 games. 11 yellows and 2 reds in 51 games last season.

*The Silva source are probably not perfect for his time in the brazilian league.
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It's something I think gets horrendously overlooked. Take Bossis for example, never red or yellow carded in his entire illustrious career for France or in international club competitions. The crap club records available have him down with 1 yellow in over 100 games.

There's two ways you accomplish that: being shit and standing like a post as forwards run past you (how did he get to be France's most capped player then?), or having a superb reading of the game, anticipating moves, positioning accordingly and being exceptionally composed.

I actually had a plan for that draft I never ran, even suggested it to Skizzo but he thought it was too mean: doing some form of weighted random red card halfway through a game. The guy with Thiago, Bossis, etc. would likely carry on with XI, while the guy who went for the mean and scary team with Montero, Keane and Vieira would likely play out the game with ten and potentially need to make a sub and sport some spastic formation.

It just HAS to be done, just a bit shit if you announce it. That's the whole point of "there will be surprises". Pick away, then go into meltdown for not checking your picks'disciplinary records :lol: :keano:
 

Balu

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Yeah, Boateng has the annoying habit to get himself sent off once a year, usually in a pretty meaningless game with a stupid tackle that was completely unnecessary. But he's not a dirty player at all. It's more stupidity, a lack of concentration that leads to bad judgement. The red card in the last group game against Bate in our treble winning season was a good example for it. I wasn't worried about him doing something stupid in one of the finals though. He's really a lot more mature than he was 3-4 years ago.
 

Annahnomoss

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antohan said:
It's something I think gets horrendously overlooked. Take Bossis for example, never red or yellow carded in his entire illustrious career for France or in international club competitions. The crap club records available have him down with 1 yellow in over 100 games.

There's two ways you accomplish that: being shit and standing like a post as forwards run past you (how did he get to be France's most capped player then?), or having a superb reading of the game, anticipating moves, positioning accordingly and being exceptionally composed.

I actually had a plan for that draft I never ran, even suggested it to Skizzo but he thought it was too mean: doing some form of weighted random red card halfway through a game. The guy with Thiago, Bossis, etc. would likely carry on with XI, while the guy who went for the mean and scary team with Montero, Keane and Vieira would likely play out the game with ten and potentially need to make a sub and sport some spastic formation.

It just HAS to be done, just a bit shit if you announce it. That's the whole point of "there will be surprises". Pick away, then go into meltdown for not checking your picks'disciplinary records :lol: :keano:
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Would have been a really good sheep draft influence.

I agree, people often look past it. Not because it necessarily means the other defenders got some great disadvantage from the red/yellow but primarily because it shows just how great they are at reading the game and being in the right time at the right moment in every challenge.

It means they pretty much never get "done by" because of a great dribbler, first touch or falls short to the opponent in pace/acceleration/strength and have to resort to plays that may be carded.
 

Annahnomoss

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Balu said:
Yeah, Boateng has the annoying habit to get himself sent off once a year, usually in a pretty meaningless game with a stupid tackle that was completely unnecessary. But he's not a dirty player at all. It's more stupidity, a lack of concentration that leads to bad judgement. The red card in the last group game against Bate in our treble winning season was a good example for it. I wasn't worried about him doing something stupid in one of the finals though. He's really a lot more mature than he was 3-4 years ago.
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To clarify, Boateng doesn't have a bad record it was more to show just what exceptional level Silva's record is at. Vidic has two times more red cards against Liverpool than Silva had in his entire career.

Vidic averaged a yellow every 5th game more or less and he was still a rock solid defender not at all prone to getting carded bar those Liverpool performances.
 

Balu

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Annahnomoss said:
To clarify, Boateng doesn't have a bad record it was more to show just what exceptional level Silva's record is at. Vidic has two times more red cards against Liverpool than Silva had in his entire career.
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I actually think he does have a bad record, or let's say, he should have a better one. It's really a bit annoying and a fair criticism, even though I wouldn't call him a liability or anything like that. But he definitely has seen a few too many red cards.
 

Annahnomoss

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Balu said:
I actually think he does have a bad record. It's really a bit annoying and a fair criticism, even though he clearly isn't a liability at all.
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You know better than me about the actual situations and all. I mean solely statistically, in which case his record is very normal. Not a pro or a con in that regard.
 

Annahnomoss

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Looked up Mr. Flawless in terms of not committing stupid fouls - Rio Ferdinand - and he has zero red cards, fantastic. Actually has more yellow cards in average than Silva though, but only very slightly so.
 

Skizzo

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antohan said:
I actually had a plan for that draft I never ran, even suggested it to Skizzo but he thought it was too mean: doing some form of weighted random red card halfway through a game. The guy with Thiago, Bossis, etc. would likely carry on with XI, while the guy who went for the mean and scary team with Montero, Keane and Vieira would likely play out the game with ten and potentially need to make a sub and sport some spastic formation.
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See @Edgar Allan Pillow ? YOU SEE HOW NICE I REALLY WAS?
 

Isotope

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Balu said:
I actually think he does have a bad record, or let's say, he should have a better one. It's really a bit annoying and a fair criticism, even though I wouldn't call him a liability or anything like that. But he definitely has seen a few too many red cards.
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With his tendency of going full-blooded tackle, it's the risk to take.
 

Raees

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On the red card/yellow card debate..

Mats Hummels

09/10: 35 games - 5 YCs
10/11: 42 games - 5 YCs
11/12: 54 games - 3 YCs
12/13: 52 games - 5 YCs
13/14: 40 games - 6 YCs 1 RC
14/15: 27 games - 1 YC

in 6 seasons, he has had 1 red card.

Giorgio Chiellini


09/10: 49 games - 7yc
10/11: 49 games - 6yc
11/12: 53 games - 9yc
12/13: 40 games - 11yc
13/14: 57 games - 6 yc 1rc
14/15: 34 games - 6 YC

in 6 seasons, he has had 1 red card.

Boateng and Godin rack up alot more yellows and reds - interesting stats for sure.
 

Gio

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antohan said:
It's something I think gets horrendously overlooked. Take Bossis for example, never red or yellow carded in his entire illustrious career for France or in international club competitions. The crap club records available have him down with 1 yellow in over 100 games.

There's two ways you accomplish that: being shit and standing like a post as forwards run past you (how did he get to be France's most capped player then?), or having a superb reading of the game, anticipating moves, positioning accordingly and being exceptionally composed.
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The beauty of Bossis and a very small handful of other left-backs (Facchetti, Krol, Maldini) is how they ended their career through the middle sweeping and dictating the defence. That's a career move almost unimaginable for the majority of today's wingers-masquerading-as-full-backs, Lahm excepted. It's a rare gift to master the game out wide and also have the capability to be its nerve-centre though the middle. Of course though we should take care when comparing disciplinary records across generations given the need to near maim someone to get a yellow pre-1994.
 

Balu

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Gio said:
It's a rare gift to master the game out wide and also have the capability to be its nerve-centre though the middle.
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Alaba. I don't think I've ever enjoyed watching a young player develop as much as I do watching him, it's so fascinating.

I'd also add that great coaching can make a huge difference in that development. It's for example not surprising that Krol made that step after playing total football for so long. Maldini definitely learned a lot as a young player under Sacchi. Managers, who demand that players understand all the roles on the pitch not just their own, give you a completely different plattform in that regard.
 
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Joga Bonito

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You could even add Schnellinger in that list as he played on the left mostly for Milan but then he was equally comfortable in the centre throughout his career iirc and didn't exactly make a transition or anything.
 

Skizzo

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Balu said:
Alaba. I don't think I've ever enjoyed watching a young player develop as much as I do watching him, it's so fascinating.

I'd also add that great coaching can make a huge difference in that development. It's for example not surprising that Krol made that step after playing total football for so long. Maldini definitely learned a lot as a young player under Sacchi. Managers, who demand that players understand all the roles on the pitch not just their own, give you a completely different plattform in that regard.
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-insert joke about getting a coach to help our players find one position they're good in-
 

Annahnomoss

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Raees said:
On the red card/yellow card debate..

Mats Hummels

09/10: 35 games - 5 YCs
10/11: 42 games - 5 YCs
11/12: 54 games - 3 YCs
12/13: 52 games - 5 YCs
13/14: 40 games - 6 YCs 1 RC
14/15: 27 games - 1 YC

in 6 seasons, he has had 1 red card.

Giorgio Chiellini


09/10: 49 games - 7yc
10/11: 49 games - 6yc
11/12: 53 games - 9yc
12/13: 40 games - 11yc
13/14: 57 games - 6 yc 1rc
14/15: 34 games - 6 YC

in 6 seasons, he has had 1 red card.

Boateng and Godin rack up alot more yellows and reds - interesting stats for sure.
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Good stuff! I love when we stumble on an angle that we haven't discussed before and we see some very odd conclusions. I had no clue just how good Silva's disciplinary record was, I thought it was very good but not among the best.

I searched for players like Stam/Nesta and they also had more cards in average but the statistics didn't go all the way back to the starts of their careers etc. Also didn't remember that Rio never got sent out, I was sure I had never seen it but I wasn't sure it never happened.

That's something that I'll have to consider when rating him as never picking up a red has to be a benefit against dribblers who often cause reds.
 

Balu

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Edgar Allan Pillow said:
TBC
@Theon vs @The Red Viper
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I have @Theon 's tactics and will send it to you Edgar. But he can't be around until Friday late in the night/Saturday morning. He asked me to help him out as interim manager. Personally, I'd say you should wait 2 more days, so that he can play the game himself, if it's okay with @The Red Viper . If that's not possible or you don't want to delay the draft further, you can start the game whenever you want and I try to chip in with a bit of love for the legend Bastian Schweinsteiger.

Formation and tactics incoming.
 

The Red Viper

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Yeah, mate. I told Theon as well that we should wait till Saturday before starting the match.
 

Joga Bonito

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Looks like Skizzo and me will be away for a while. We'll leave Balu as the interim manager and antohan as the AM (lots of Müller love for them both to propagate) and we'd take over on the last hour of the final to claim the credit :p.
 
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