The natural successor: Has Neymar blown it?

AaronRedDevil

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Wouldn't mind him here. Woody might have been all over this. He's a great player.
 

dinostar77

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I have different matrix/rating in comparing these three:

Natural Talent:
Messi > Ronaldo = Neymar

(Messi has most natural talent period. But alot of you forgot how talented Ronaldo was during his early years, George Best himself said its compliment to him when people being compared young Ronaldo with him. Our players are all buzzing and asking Fergie to sign Ronaldo, when they played against young Ronaldo once. I think Neymar was at similar level as Ronaldo talent wise during his early years)

Technical ability:
Messi = Neymar > Ronaldo

(Yes I think Neymar technical matches Messi, he dribbling stats over the years is just as good as Messi, with more tricks in his bags too)

Goalscoring ability:
Ronaldo = Messi >>> Neymar

(Neymar best 3 seasons in Europe scored 39 goals, 31 goals, 28 goals. This sounds more comparable to the worst 3 seasons from Messi/Ronaldo since heir grown up years)

Playmaking ability:
Messi > Neymar >> Ronaldo

(Messi being the best, with Neymar closely following behind. Ronaldo isn't really bad as he has over 230 career assists, which is actually very high. But with his later years (beyond 30s) playing more like a poacher, he is no match with the other 2.

Consistency:
Messi = Ronaldo >>> Neymar

(If not for last season, I'd even rate Messi higher than Ronaldo. Both of them are probably the 2 most consistent players ever, with Messi being the most consistent performer ever. Neymar was far worst than both of them in terms of consistency.)

Longevity:
Ronaldo > Messi > Neymar?

We can't conclude this yet as we don't know how well will Neymar play beyond his 30. But right now, I'd say 37 year old Ronaldo > 35 year old Messi > 30 year old Neymar.

Mentality:
Ronaldo > Messi >>> Neymar

(Ronaldo is all about always having the best mentality, always keeping himself in top condition despite his age, and being the most clutch player on the pitch. Messi is all about maintaining highest level of performance, and keep getting most motm over decade of time, this requires insane level of mentality to keep all that up. Neymar is all about money and partying)
Good comparison, missing professionalism (off the pitch). I would say mentality on the pitch, this season especially Messi has been poor. I'd add desire as another one. If Neymar truly had the desire to become a multiple balon dor he wouldnt have gone to PSG. Or got out of their after a season or two. Looked at the flaws in his game and decide to come play in PL to iron them out. But treading water and partying is where hes at.
 

copen1945

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Neymar will be a boon to the marketing potential. The American owners, hopefully, will make an attempt. I will wait for a report of linking him with Man City. Then, I will know he is coming to us.
 

Lee565

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If psg are serious about letting him go then maybe we should be tempted to offer to take him on loan and willing to cover almost his entire wages as I find it hard to believe any side are going to offer psg anything near 100 million for a 30 year old who would also demand crazy wages.
 

mshnsh

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I have different matrix/rating in comparing these three:

Natural Talent:
Messi > Ronaldo = Neymar

(Messi has most natural talent period. But alot of you forgot how talented Ronaldo was during his early years, George Best himself said its compliment to him when people being compared young Ronaldo with him. Our players are all buzzing and asking Fergie to sign Ronaldo, when they played against young Ronaldo once. I think Neymar was at similar level as Ronaldo talent wise during his early years)

Technical ability:
Messi = Neymar > Ronaldo

(Yes I think Neymar technical matches Messi, he dribbling stats over the years is just as good as Messi, with more tricks in his bags too)

Goalscoring ability:
Ronaldo = Messi >>> Neymar

(Neymar best 3 seasons in Europe scored 39 goals, 31 goals, 28 goals. This sounds more comparable to the worst 3 seasons from Messi/Ronaldo since heir grown up years)

Playmaking ability:
Messi > Neymar >> Ronaldo

(Messi being the best, with Neymar closely following behind. Ronaldo isn't really bad as he has over 230 career assists, which is actually very high. But with his later years (beyond 30s) playing more like a poacher, he is no match with the other 2.

Consistency:
Messi = Ronaldo >>> Neymar

(If not for last season, I'd even rate Messi higher than Ronaldo. Both of them are probably the 2 most consistent players ever, with Messi being the most consistent performer ever. Neymar was far worst than both of them in terms of consistency.)

Longevity:
Ronaldo > Messi > Neymar?

We can't conclude this yet as we don't know how well will Neymar play beyond his 30. But right now, I'd say 37 year old Ronaldo > 35 year old Messi > 30 year old Neymar.

Mentality:
Ronaldo > Messi >>> Neymar

(Ronaldo is all about always having the best mentality, always keeping himself in top condition despite his age, and being the most clutch player on the pitch. Messi is all about maintaining highest level of performance, and keep getting most motm over decade of time, this requires insane level of mentality to keep all that up. Neymar is all about money and partying)
Ronaldo was frustrating as feck early in his career (2003-2006) which is why he got alot of stick from United fans and opponents alike. He would run into blind alleys, try unnecessary tricks that would often fail to come off and make poor decisions. He also used to go down very easily. A game that demonstrated this clearly was vs Milan away in 2005 when united were 2-0 down on aggregate, Ronaldo was doing kick ups on half way line and all game failed to beat Cafu all game

It was when he focused on getting the ball into the back of the net that he became the player he is. Interms of natural talent with the ball he was pretty good just never as good as Messi or Neymar which is not an insult given the former is a once in 30y/50y/lifetime talent and the later a once in a decade taken.

You can say Ronaldo learnt how to play the game and utilise his strengths to overshadow his weaknesses. His fantastic career is a testament to his hardwork, dedication and sacrifice to be the best he can be.
 

RedRonaldo

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Ronaldo was frustrating as feck early in his career (2003-2006) which is why he got alot of stick from United fans and opponents alike. He would run into blind alleys, try unnecessary tricks that would often fail to come off and make poor decisions. He also used to go down very easily. A game that demonstrated this clearly was vs Milan away in 2005 when united were 2-0 down on aggregate, Ronaldo was doing kick ups on half way line and all game failed to beat Cafu all game

It was when he focused on getting the ball into the back of the net that he became the player he is. Interms of natural talent with the ball he was pretty good just never as good as Messi or Neymar which is not an insult given the former is a once in 30y/50y/lifetime talent and the later a once in a decade taken.

You can say Ronaldo learnt how to play the game and utilise his strengths to overshadow his weaknesses. His fantastic career is a testament to his hardwork, dedication and sacrifice to be the best he can be.
Well you tell me, Neymar was equally as frustrating with his diving and too much dribbling and trying to do everything on his own at times. I am only talking about natural talent here during their early days comparison, not maturity or decision making or end products, if that’s where you are referring to.
 

GlasgowCeltic

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Think he’d do great in Chelsea’s front three, albeit I also think if he came to England he’d also instantly assume the Pogba role as the media’s chosen “bad egg” who gets haircuts and dances and enjoys life
 

The_Midfielder

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Amazing player when he wants to play.. but missing of the season due to birthdays and other parties.. too injury prone ...
 

mshnsh

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Well you tell me, Neymar was equally as frustrating with his diving and too much dribbling and trying to do everything on his own at times. I am only talking about natural talent here during their early days comparison, not maturity or decision making or end products, if that’s where you are referring to.
Let me put it this way, in the early years (teens) , Ronaldo was considered one of the players to watch but he was in the category of players like Quaresma, Robben, etc. Infact Rooney was cansidered a bigger talent at 17 to 21 years.

Neymar on the otherhand was considered a standout talent of his generation from very early on. Very much like Messi in his generation although the later was also considered to have the potential to be a goat candidate on talent alone.

If you look at their raw qualities, Neymar was and is easily better with the ball at his feet than Cristiano. But the Cristiano's biggest strength is his mentality which has made him have a career that surpasses superior talents.
 

RedRonaldo

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Let me put it this way, in the early years (teens) , Ronaldo was considered one of the players to watch but he was in the category of players like Quaresma, Robben, etc. Infact Rooney was cansidered a bigger talent at 17 to 21 years.

Neymar on the otherhand was considered a standout talent of his generation from very early on. Very much like Messi in his generation although the later was also considered to have the potential to be a goat candidate on talent alone.

If you look at their raw qualities, Neymar was and is easily better with the ball at his feet than Cristiano. But the Cristiano's biggest strength is his mentality which has made him have a career that surpasses superior talents.
I totally disagree. Young Ronaldo was one of the most electrifying/talented youngster I’ve ever seen. Although I didn’t expect him to turn into goalscoring GOAT he is today, back then I was totally amazed on his skills display and talent. His only weakness are lack of endproducts, tendency to dive and too much of a show pony, which has nothing to do with natural talent at all.

I still remember clearly at one point the top 3 youngster in the world were Rooney, Ronaldo and Messi. Rooney has the edge over the other 2 as teenager with his strength/maturity, but not natural talent. Ronaldo was always far talented players even during his younger years, but just not as talented as Messi, and the least mature for sure.

Also, don’t forget Ronaldo mainly started his career in best league in the world as a 18 year old kid (PL was the best during early-mid 2000s), Neymar started his career in Brazilian leagues, which was regarded as far lower level.
 
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BerryBerryShrew

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I totally disagree. Young Ronaldo was one of the most electrifying/talented youngster I’ve ever seen. Although I didn’t expect him to turn into goalscoring GOAT he is today, back then I was totally amazed on his skills display and talent. His only weakness are lack of endproducts, tendency to dive and too much of a show pony, which has nothing to do with natural talent at all.

I still remember clearly at one point the top 3 youngster in the world were Rooney, Ronaldo and Messi. Rooney has the edge over the other 2 as teenager with his strength/maturity, but not natural talent. Ronaldo was always far talented players even during his younger years, but just not as talented as Messi, and the least mature for sure.

Also, don’t forget Ronaldo mainly started his career in best league in the world as a 18 year old kid (PL was the best during early-mid 2000s), Neymar started his career in Brazilian leagues, which was regarded as far lower level.
While I don't think anyone could have forseen Ronaldo becoming a ruthless goalscoring machine I also don't think many predicted that he would first transition from frustrating show pony into the electrifying wizard that he was in '06 and '07. The guy had a lot of talent but he didn't seem to ever know how to use it. He was more comparable to a more lightweight Adama Traore than he was with the likes of Figo in his first 3 seasons with us- skilful but utterly brain dead. Him becoming arguably the most intelligent final third operator in the history of the sport is something that nobody could have ever predicted.
 

MrEleson

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He was more comparable to a more lightweight Adama Traore than he was with the likes of Figo
I get what you’re trying to say but still an outrageous comparison. Adama has nowhere near the talent or technical ability of a young Ronaldo.

Ronaldo, despite his shortcomings in his formative years was still a regular starter for a SAF-led United that regularly finished minimum top 3 in the league. Adama would at best make the bench for those sides.
 

MrEleson

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If you look at their raw qualities, Neymar was and is easily better with the ball at his feet than Cristiano. But the Cristiano's biggest strength is his mentality which has made him have a career that surpasses superior talents.
I wouldn’t say Neymar is easily better with the ball at his feet. Ronaldo in his formative years could pull off just about any skill Neymar could muster from his repertoire. He was just as electrifying a dribbler and he did it in a far more physical league where he was routinely & heavily fouled. Considering how fragile Neymar is (even in less intense leagues); it’s not far-fetched to say that he’d suffer and struggle in that PL era. I watched many of his games in Brazil and he would often bring the ball to a stand still just to humiliate the player. That kind of thing would never happen in the PL. From his younger years, he developed his game more differently to Ronaldo who decided to focus more on being off the ball and finishing while Neymar became more and more a playmaker. So as a passer & creator, I’d say there’s only winner. But when they both started out, I’d say both were close in terms of how gifted they were with the ball, with Ronaldo having the physical edge & Neymar having more intelligence and a higher IQ.
 

BerryBerryShrew

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I get what you’re trying to say but still an outrageous comparison. Adama has nowhere near the talent or technical ability of a young Ronaldo.

Ronaldo, despite his shortcomings in his formative years was still a regular starter for a SAF-led United that regularly finished minimum top 3 in the league. Adama would at best make the bench for those sides.
Ronaldo was largely only getting those minutes due to his age rather than what he was offering; there was a hope that he would improve with first team exposure. Put it this way, if a 30 year old was playing like Ronaldo was at 19/20, SAF would have kicked him out let alone benched him. He was so outrageously frustrating to watch. I had absolutely no doubt whatsoever (as I'm sure the majority on this forum thought as well) that Rooney would go on to be the far superior player to Ronaldo in their early years. Although I now get the suspicion that SAF was one of the small minority who would have predicted otherwise. That's why he was the greatest manager of all time I suppose.
 

mshnsh

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I wouldn’t say Neymar is easily better with the ball at his feet. Ronaldo in his formative years could pull off just about any skill Neymar could muster from his repertoire. He was just as electrifying a dribbler and he did it in a far more physical league where he was routinely & heavily fouled. Considering how fragile Neymar is (even in less intense leagues); it’s not far-fetched to say that he’d suffer and struggle in that PL era. I watched many of his games in Brazil and he would often bring the ball to a stand still just to humiliate the player. That kind of thing would never happen in the PL. From his younger years, he developed his game more differently to Ronaldo who decided to focus more on being off the ball and finishing while Neymar became more and more a playmaker. So as a passer & creator, I’d say there’s only winner. But when they both started out, I’d say both were close in terms of how gifted they were with the ball, with Ronaldo having the physical edge & Neymar having more intelligence and a higher IQ.
Just no. Ronaldo used to do multiple stopovers and alot if times they led to nothing. On the other hand, Neymar was already doing insane ball skills Brazilian style.
I totally disagree. Young Ronaldo was one of the most electrifying/talented youngster I’ve ever seen. Although I didn’t expect him to turn into goalscoring GOAT he is today, back then I was totally amazed on his skills display and talent. His only weakness are lack of endproducts, tendency to dive and too much of a show pony, which has nothing to do with natural talent at all.

I still remember clearly at one point the top 3 youngster in the world were Rooney, Ronaldo and Messi. Rooney has the edge over the other 2 as teenager with his strength/maturity, but not natural talent. Ronaldo was always far talented players even during his younger years, but just not as talented as Messi, and the least mature for sure.

Also, don’t forget Ronaldo mainly started his career in best league in the world as a 18 year old kid (PL was the best during early-mid 2000s), Neymar started his career in Brazilian leagues, which was regarded as far lower level.
The premier league was the best in Europe the late noughties when United and Chelsea were, along with Barca, the best teams in Europe.

As for the talent thing, you can peruse through this forum and you'll find that Rooney was considered the bigger talent. Ronaldo belonged a pool of players below that including the likes of Robben, Ribery, Quaresma etc.

As for Ronaldo's ball skills, there was a reason he was called a "one trick show pony" back in the day. Neymars ball skills have always been on another level.
 

RedRonaldo

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Just no. Ronaldo used to do multiple stopovers and alot if times they led to nothing. On the other hand, Neymar was already doing insane ball skills Brazilian style.

The premier league was the best in Europe the late noughties when United and Chelsea were, along with Barca, the best teams in Europe.

As for the talent thing, you can peruse through this forum and you'll find that Rooney was considered the bigger talent. Ronaldo belonged a pool of players below that including the likes of Robben, Ribery, Quaresma etc.

As for Ronaldo's ball skills, there was a reason he was called a "one trick show pony" back in the day. Neymars ball skills have always been on another level.
Well I understand where you coming from regarding “one trick pony” thing, as he tend to overdid his stepsover as show pony thing, and more often end up his move with a dive, which is frustrating for his teammates at times, but I just totally don’t agree Rooney was considered bigger natural talent than Ronaldo. He is better young prospect for sure due to his maturity at early age, but definitely not better talent. PL in the early mid 2000s is definitely the best league in the world, while players like Quaresma still playing mainly in Portugal league at same age (and one season flop at Barca), so it’s totally incomparable, while young Robben also kind of flop in PL during his early years too. Young Ronaldo was simply the most talented/electrifying youngster PL has ever produced, he simply has more tricks in his bags than anyone else I’ve seen, maybe only Ronaldinho does better trick at that time.

And here’s the direct quote from George Best, one of the most talented player ever, on young Ronaldo:

"There have been a few players described as the new George Best over the years, but this is the first time it's been a compliment to me."

- George Best on young Ronaldo

I am sure Best knows more about football talent than average Joe like your or me.
 
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Jeppers7

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This thread is bringing back ridiculous memories of when a lot of our fans ridiculously underrated Ronaldo and certainly the media pushed the narrative that he was a show pony. The English media seemed intent on crediting Rooney for everything and ignoring Ronaldo. I’d be at games at the time and Rooney would fluff easy passes, miscontrol passes, while Ronaldo was electric and outrageous….then Rooney would score a goal and MOTD would pick out five of Rooney best bits and five of Ronaldo’s worst and that would be the narrative.

Young Ronaldo was outrageous. SAF knew it. He said early on that Ronaldo would mature into the best player in the world. Rooney was always a level below, more ordinarily talented with a good football brain, and most importantly he was physically developed at 16.

You simply dont get to where Ronaldo has in the game without having the most talent.
 

mshnsh

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Well I understand where you coming from regarding “one trick pony” thing, as he tend to overdid his stepsover as show pony thing, and more often end up his move with a dive, which is frustrating for his teammates at times, but I just totally don’t agree Rooney was considered bigger natural talent than Ronaldo. He is better young prospect for sure due to his maturity at early age, but definitely not better talent. PL in the early mid 2000s is definitely the best league in the world, while players like Quaresma still playing mainly in Portugal league at same age (and one season flop at Barca), so it’s totally incomparable, while young Robben also kind of flop in PL during his early years too. Young Ronaldo was simply the most talented/electrifying youngster PL has ever produced, he simply has more tricks in his bags than anyone else I’ve seen, maybe only Ronaldinho does better trick at that time.

And here’s the direct quote from George Best, one of the most talented player ever, on young Ronaldo:

"There have been a few players described as the new George Best over the years, but this is the first time it's been a compliment to me."

- George Best on young Ronaldo

I am sure Best knows more about football talent than average Joe like your or me.
Honestly Best was being generous with his complement given that Cristiano had joined United. I want to accuse you of bias given your name "RedRonaldo" but ill refrain. Let us agree to disagree.
 

Gehrman

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Honestly Best was being generous with his complement given that Cristiano had joined United. I want to accuse you of bias given your name "RedRonaldo" but ill refrain. Let us agree to disagree.
Best also said "they might end up saying I was another Ryan Giggs". Anyway Ronaldo is one of the greatest ever, just not in dribbling.
 

RedRonaldo

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Honestly Best was being generous with his complement given that Cristiano had joined United. I want to accuse you of bias given your name "RedRonaldo" but ill refrain. Let us agree to disagree.
Sure in football everyone is biased. But if you look at the date I joined Cafe, it’s 2003 under the same name. So at the very least it proves I have been very honest/consistent in regards to how highly I rate young Ronaldo as a natural talent back then, without knowing how good he would turn out in future.
 

VeevaVee

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Can't believe he's 30. Feels like his career has been somewhat of a letdown despite winning plenty. The PSG effect.
 

Andrade

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Overrated. Always has been. Didn’t have the dedication of the big two.
He's overrated because he's not as good as Messi and Ronaldo. Make it make sense y'all :lol:

Also worth pointing out again that he had enough dedication to bag 650 career goal contributions. If only he'd been properly dedicated :rolleyes:
 

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That’s accurate. United especially was the best team for about 18 months before Barça started their spell at the top.
Barca got 2 Liga titles from 95 to 2000 (in 6 seasons), and achieved zilch in Europe, what spell at the top of Europe are you talking about?

Same goes for Chelsea.

United were pretty good, not the "best side from 95 to 2000" good, but one of the best.
 

calodo2003

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Barca got 2 Liga titles from 95 to 2000 (in 6 seasons), and achieved zilch in Europe, what spell at the top of Europe are you talking about?

Same goes for Chelsea.

United were pretty good, not the "best side from 95 to 2000" good, but one of the best.
‘Noughties’ is 2000 to 2009.
 

Hammondo

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Barca got 2 Liga titles from 95 to 2000 (in 6 seasons), and achieved zilch in Europe, what spell at the top of Europe are you talking about?

Same goes for Chelsea.

United were pretty good, not the "best side from 95 to 2000" good, but one of the best.
Why are you mentioning the 90s?