The [non] use of Van de Beek - Ole's player?

romufc

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Christ this is so over the top. We’re 8 games in and it’s October. He was signed as a squad player. Does anyone need reminding that it’s a long season? His time will come.
Exactly, yet all the fans will be giving this air time and get the mood negative. We are 5 games into a PL season and 1 CL game. It is not the time to experiment with systems and personnel given our current league position.
 

Castia

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I think it was assumed that both Pogba and Bruno would be the starters and that VDB would be backup for both of them.
This is what I expected but even with a unfit/out of form Pogba he doesn't seem to get a sniff. It's a weird one.

I said this earlier and it's tin foil hat stuff but I think Ole wanted Grealish in the summer and we went and got VDB instead for a cheaper deal leaving Ole fecking pissed.
 

monosierra

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Exactly, yet all the fans will be giving this air time and get the mood negative. We are 5 games into a PL season and 1 CL game. It is not the time to experiment with systems and personnel given our current league position.
Fans aside, it is incredibly irritating to see pundits and ex-players questioning the club openly. The amount of disrespect towards the coach and his staff is mind-boggling.
 

Castia

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Exactly, yet all the fans will be giving this air time and get the mood negative. We are 5 games into a PL season and 1 CL game. It is not the time to experiment with systems and personnel given our current league position.

He's literally experimented with every midfielder at the club using multiple systems apart from VDB though? He's arguably fitter than the lot of them after a proper pre season and multiple games for Holland as well.
 

RedDevil@84

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The fans should stop joining this bandwagon of agenda driven media personnel and bunch of ex-players. It is too early in the season to moan about it. The guy is going to be played. This is a long season
 

romufc

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He's literally experimented with every midfielder at the club using multiple systems apart from VDB though? He's arguably fitter than the lot of them after a proper pre season and multiple games for Holland as well.
Has he?

Bruno is our first choice CAM.

He started the season with the team that finished last season strongly.

That went tits up so he went to the team that served him well before lockdown, how is that experimenting every other player?
 

romufc

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Fans aside, it is incredibly irritating to see pundits and ex-players questioning the club openly. The amount of disrespect towards the coach and his staff is mind-boggling.
Its because its IN to criticise United and Ole. The media, pundits and everyone knows it, the fans are going to lap it up.

Lets all complain about lack of squad in 19/20, get squad players - ok now lets complain about us signing players to be in rotation.
 

Nytram Shakes

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So when fans come back at some stage, when normality slowly creeps back in, you think clubs will be LESS inclined to spend money? Interesting. I'd say its the complete other way round. They literally stopped spending because of the current pandemic, in all likelihood, the pandemic will be coming towards its conclusion in 9 months or so time or at least some sort of projection for it ending. I bet La Liga clubs spend at least double what they did this summer, next summer.
the issue is we have no idea when fans will be back, a good bet would be it won't be this season and if it is it will be very limited, by that time the losses across football are going to be crazy and no clubs are going to have big money to spend.
And the money they have got are they going to want to spend it on Pogba? he will be 28 by the end of the season will have no sell on value demand a massive contract and hasn't shown any consistency in a long time, Are clubs going to want to pay out easily in excess of 50 million for him? Not convinced.
 

FrankDrebin

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United fans getting more reactionary and dumber by the minute.

And some of you fans laugh at Arsenal fans. Pot calling the kettle black.
 

Castia

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Has he?

Bruno is our first choice CAM.

He started the season with the team that finished last season strongly.

That went tits up so he went to the team that served him well before lockdown, how is that experimenting every other player?

He's played Pogba, Matic, McT, Fred, and Bruno they've all been given a chance even though results have been mediocre. Bruno no doubt starts at #10 but the other 2 spots are wide open for me he could easily play alongside Matic or Fred. He's just as much a right winger as Mata as well, another 'cam' getting games.
 

romufc

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He's played Pogba, Matic, McT, Fred, and Bruno they've all been given a chance even though results have been mediocre. Bruno no doubt starts at #10 but the other 2 spots are wide open for me he could easily play alongside Matic or Fred. He's just as much a right winger as Mata as well, another 'cam' getting games.
I do get where you are coming from. I do think he should try him. I thought he would start the season because of the Pogba Covid thing but it was clear that Ole does not trust VDB yet.

After the first 3 results he had to go defensive and sure the defence up, which doe not mean bring in an attacking minded CM.

Its only 5 PL games to lose our shit. Lets get through the next 2 weeks, if we pick up 4/6 points, I am sure he will come into the team.
 

Ish

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I wouldn't be surprised if this is Solskjaer's way to tell a new player he has to earn his place.

Having said that, Telles already started in the Champions League, so I don't know.
Yeah, I think (or let’s hope) it’s just a case of us having more options in that position and DVB is settling in.
 

kouroux

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The thing is that we only see what VDB is doing on the pitch while the manager and the coaching staff observe him through out the week. Maybe they feel he is not fully ready to start, especially in a position where we have strength in depth. Plus whatever little I have seen of him in a United shirt he seems to be a front third player. So he is not going to replace Bruno in the lineup is he? Not right now with Bruno's insane productivity. That leaves Ole with changing the system to accommodate VdB or starting him in a double pivot. All too hypothetical now and I dont think its fair to criticize Ole or any manager to not play a young player 5 games into the season. It was the same last season with Mason and Ole was proven to be right in his handling of him in the end.
Yes but it can mean everything and nothing at the same time. We've seen many managers persisting with shite players and benching competent ones just as we've seen managers carefully managing the implementation of a player over time. As fans, when we talk about these things, our discussions are basically pointless because we lack so many information but it still doesn't hurt to ask the question
 

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bsCallout

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Its a TEAM game, why this obsession about individual players? If we had a Best or a Ronaldo in the team I could understand some of this, but in general our players are at about the same level. It then becomes a case of tactics, game plans, tiredness, injuries, 'horses for courses' etc etc.
What are you on about?
 

bsCallout

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Chelsea got Werner, Havertz, Ziyech, Mendi, Chilwell, Tiago Silva. Everyone plays, none of them needs time to settle, somehow.

klopp got Tiago Alcantara and plays him
GKs usually do.
Chilwell already played in the league.
They have no other CBs.
The front 3 have been subbed on and off.

None of those managers put a player in a position where they had the depth we do.

People were saying he was bought as backup and now crying that hes not starting. What on earth.
 

Amir

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People were saying he was bought as backup and now crying that hes not starting. What on earth.
Thing is, if he's among other things backup for Pogba, shouldn't he be playing when Pogba isn't? Especially when the other midfielders aren't exactly creative.
 

romufc

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Thing is, if he's among other things backup for Pogba, shouldn't he be playing when Pogba isn't? Especially when the other midfielders aren't exactly creative.
The problem is that is not what we lacked, in any football you have to make sure the basics are right. If the defence is leaking goals, you can have 6 creative players but you still wont win many games.

We have to get the defence sorted before even thinking of getting more creative players on the pitch.
 

Nicoseth

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He's a quality player and Ole isn't blind or stupid. He'll get his chance, he just has to be patient. Ole is steadying the ship now after the rough start imo and that's why we're seeing Fred and McT. They're doing a good job at screening that back 4. Once we start to get some momentum we'll see more adventurous line ups, and that will include Donny. Can't wait to see more of him, seems like a cracking player.
 

Alemar

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Ole is steadying the ship now after the rough start imo and that's why we're seeing Fred and McT.
Fred and McTominay make sense (especially Fred), but James simply doesn’t. So of course people question Ole’s team selection (including omission of VDB).

People usually back team selections if it is on merit, but if it’s unexplainable, and at the same time there are good players who are on the bench all the time, of course questions arise. Lack of results doesnt help either
 

Nicoseth

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Fred and McTominay make sense (especially Fred), but James simply doesn’t. So of course people question Ole’s team selection (including omission of VDB).

People usually back team selections if it is on merit, but if it’s unexplainable, and at the same time there are good players who are on the bench all the time, of course questions arise. Lack of results doesnt help either
Absolutely agree on that one. James is not justifying that starting spot for me, not even close. Really like the guy, but he's not good enough unfortunately - at least to be a starter. I think he's maybe been used there to make a statement to Greenwood about keeping his levels up, but long term he shouldn't be starting there. I don't think Ole sees Donny as being a wide player in the current system, which I think we have to trust him on.
 

Amarsdd

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One could think we are already halfway through the season and VDB has played only 60 min in total given the reaction everywhere. Feck me!
 

romufc

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Absolutely agree on that one. James is not justifying that starting spot for me, not even close. Really like the guy, but he's not good enough unfortunately - at least to be a starter. I think he's maybe been used there to make a statement to Greenwood about keeping his levels up, but long term he shouldn't be starting there. I don't think Ole sees Donny as being a wide player in the current system, which I think we have to trust him on.
Why does everyone keep saying James is a starter. He has started 2 PL games. Reasons:

1. Martial is suspended = no striker so Rashford plays there
2. We didnt sign a winger to cover for injuries, suspensions.
3. Greenwood has been punished / injured -not sure which it is
4. We have no other winger - hence Mata and James.

James is a squad player, nothing more so people saying he is taking Donny's place in the team is incorrect.
 

Deery

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I think Van Basten is being a bit of a tit coming out and saying Donny has chosen the wrong club, nothing to say he won’t be a great player for us just has to bide his time at the moment.
 

UpWithRivers

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Why does everyone keep saying James is a starter. He has started 2 PL games. Reasons:

1. Martial is suspended = no striker so Rashford plays there
2. We didnt sign a winger to cover for injuries, suspensions.
3. Greenwood has been punished / injured -not sure which it is
4. We have no other winger - hence Mata and James.

James is a squad player, nothing more so people saying he is taking Donny's place in the team is incorrect.
Plus Cavani wasnt ready. Thats 3 of our best attackers out - Martial/Greenwood/Cavani.
 

romufc

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Plus Cavani wasnt ready. Thats 3 of our best attackers out - Martial/Greenwood/Cavani.
But it doesn't suit the narrative. The James is a starter, Ole doesn't know what he is doing gets more views and likes compare to actually understanding what is going on.
 

Rustyspider13

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James starting against Chelsea is the product of us having 3 of ours attackers unaavailble, nothing to do with VdB. I think VdB'll take one of Fred or McT's spot in the future. Ole isn't putting him in that position in the big games because he doesn't want to change what is working. I wouldn't be surprised if the first 'big' game we see him start is against Basaksehir. Until then, every game he doesn't start will be the same media frenzy. With our current midfield lineup it would be him or Pogba who misses out on minutes and the uproar would be twice as much if it was Pogba instead.
 

Alemar

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But it doesn't suit the narrative. The James is a starter, Ole doesn't know what he is doing gets more views and likes compare to actually understanding what is going on.
Its not a narrative. Do you think people on Redcafe only started watching football yesterday? I think the vast majority supports Man Utd for very many years already, and these people understand something.
 

Manny

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If he was squeezed into a starting XI, some of you lot would bemoan our squad depth.
 

sammsky1

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Sky Sports just did an entire segment on this non issue! Van Basten and others all piping up.

Media create issues out of nothing, simply for the advertising and clicks. It's so shameful and yet our fans fall for it every time.
 

spiriticon

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Can we stop using Dan James as a reason why Van De Beek isn't playing? They're not even competing with each other for the same position. Arghh.

Why don't we just throw De Gea's name into the hat as another reason for good measure? How are Van De Beek's shot-stopping skills these days?
 

charlenefan

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Fabinho didn't make a league appearance for Liverpool until 20 minutes from the end in a 1-0 win over Huddersfield in late October - I don't remember anyone asking at all why he wasn't getting games before that

Pretty sure the 0-0 v Chelsea was the first time this season VDB failed to make an appearance in

#perspective
 

R77

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As usual, a big old storm in a teacup brewing with regards to United. Any other club and no one would care.
This, pretty much. Far too early to be throwing toys out the pram.

Mata's mini resurgence is beneficial overall. Filling in well while others get up to speed. James is harder to grok on the surface, but a similar means to an end. The interest during the window likely means they're getting the ruler out one last time imo. Safe to say it's not measured up.

Can see how it seems odd that he's not played much, but there's a lot of players at varying stages to work through and it's been about 10 weeks in all. A very up and down, tense 10 weeks at that. He'll earn his place if that's what he works on.
 

Josep Dowling

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But it doesn't suit the narrative. The James is a starter, Ole doesn't know what he is doing gets more views and likes compare to actually understanding what is going on.
Surely it proves what every fan thought in the transfer window. We signed Van De Beek who we didn’t need yet we didn’t buy a winger who can play straight away. Thus we have to start James but have Van De Beek sat on the bench. The logic was a joke then and a joke now.
 

Nicoseth

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But it doesn't suit the narrative. The James is a starter, Ole doesn't know what he is doing gets more views and likes compare to actually understanding what is going on.
If you look at any of my posts you'll see I'm very much Ole in. No narrative here. James has been a starter in some recent games and I was replying to another poster who was questioning why Donny wasn't starting ahead of him.
 

Stretender

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Yes but it can mean everything and nothing at the same time. We've seen many managers persisting with shite players and benching competent ones just as we've seen managers carefully managing the implementation of a player over time. As fans, when we talk about these things, our discussions are basically pointless because we lack so many information but it still doesn't hurt to ask the question
You can't sign a player for 40 million and not play him. It defies logic.

McTominnay, Mata and Dan James should not be starting ahead of Donny. It's laughable, and just shows the level of manager Ole is.
 

Rolaholic

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You can't sign a player for 40 million and not play him. It defies logic.

McTominnay, Mata and Dan James should not be starting ahead of Donny. It's laughable, and just shows the level of manager Ole is.
Agreed to a point.

I'm not on the Ole out train but I don't believe the McFred midfield is going to get us anywhere near where we should be aiming for in the table either just because of their workrate.

Trying to find a way to fit in a player of Donny's quality against good opposition would be much more preferable than rolling the dice on the aforementioned pivot against non-bottom of the table sides.
 

Abhinav

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You can't sign a player for 40 million and not play him. It defies logic.

McTominnay, Mata and Dan James should not be starting ahead of Donny. It's laughable, and just shows the level of manager Ole is.
What a car crash of a post. Just because we have spunked 40 million on a player so he must play. I can remember so many signings under Fergie, other managers who didnt play immediately after signing.

Why should McTominay not start in front of VdB at a time when our team craves for defensive stability - Ole’s faith in Fred and McT has been vindicated with the performances & results over the last week.
Mata played very well against Newcastle and deserved to start against Chelsea especially when all our other first team attackers other than Marcus are out. Dan James is not competing directly with VdB in the winger role. He had a poor game but Ole tried out something for the shape of the team and it didn’t work - big deal. The fact that Cavani & Greenwood came to replace Mata & James shows Vdb was never considered a winger in the system Ole deployed and rightly so I may add.