The RedCafe Boxing Thread

[Revan]

Agreed but the career trajectory is comparable in that the former came back and dominated for much of the remainder of his career. AJ easily has the ability to come back from this, reclaim the four belts and proceed as previously scheduled. It’s also quite possible that we will look back at this in 10 years and have to concede that Ruiz was far better than his rollie pollie image implied.

Except that the similarities are that both of them are heavyweights, and both of them are from UK.

Before the Rahman fight, Lewis had defeated an all time great in Holyfield (who was still good), and many other great boxers like Tua, or essentially retiring Golota. He also dominated just for another 2 years after that fight, so he was at the end of his career.

Unless you meant McCall fight which is another matter, and there might be comparisons with what happened last night.

Regardless is far from a given if AJ can defeat Ruiz, let alone dominate the division. For a start, there is a much better boxer in HW in practically everything bar punching power, and there is another one who can knock out an elephant. Lewis was simply a far superior boxer to Joshua, so him getting back stronger after McCall fight (and easily defeating Rahman in the rematch) was a given. Not sure we can say that for Joshua whom bar punching power is as average as it can get.

 

[Revan]

Joshua didn’t just lose, but got well beaten, which is more difficult to explain. The loss isn’t the end of the world though given the lack of an obvious big fight for the end of the year, which he now has. The issue will be that one or more of the belts may be stripped from either fighter, either before or after the rematch, for not fulfilling a mandatory.

That's the thing. Everyone can lose, but he got demolished. From the moment he floored Ruiz, he looked like an amateur. Right there with Foreman vs Fraizer and Patterson vs Johansson, when the champion got totally dominated and got knocked down multiple times.

 

[Oggmonster]

But that's true, isn't it? He was in severe difficulty against Whyte in the second round seconds after he almost floored Whyte. Then in the round he knocked down Klitschko, he was in trouble and was defending for his life, to only be knocked down in the following round. And then we saw the humiliation of yesterday, getting knocked down twice in the same round he first knocked down Ruiz.

How many times have you seen in heavyweight boxing, a boxer knocking down another boxer, but somehow being in more trouble than the one who got knocked down? Not often, but somehow it has happened twice with Joshua. Once from a 40 years old boxer who hadn't fought for 2 years, and one from a guy who looks more like a sumo wrestler.

Maybe it is true. I just find it funny how people write boxers off after 1 loss. I've always said Joshua is probably overrated but equally he's not as bad as people are now making out here.

 

[ivaldo]

He has but that didn't stop the majority of posters here treating him like the new Mohammad Ali and saying he would destroy Wilder and Fury .

He was always going to be another Bruno and Hearn clearly knew it

Seriously, are you just trying to be facetious? Show me, please, where the majority of posters have treated him like the new Ali. Most, literally, have said he's the best of a bad bunch, and that's about it.

 

[Raoul]

Except that the similarities are that both of them are heavyweights, and both of them are from UK.

Before the Rahman fight, Lewis had defeated an all time great in Holyfield (who was still good), and many other great boxers like Tua, or essentially retiring Golota. He also dominated just for another 2 years after that fight, so he was at the end of his career.

Unless you meant McCall fight which is another matter, and there might be comparisons with what happened last night.

Regardless is far from a given if AJ can defeat Ruiz, let alone dominate the division. For a start, there is a much better boxer in HW in practically everything bar punching power, and there is another one who can knock out an elephant. Lewis was simply a far superior boxer to Joshua, so him getting back stronger after McCall fight (and easily defeating Rahman in the rematch) was a given. Not sure we can say that for Joshua whom bar punching power is as average as it can get.

McCall is probably a better example than Rahman. In both instances Lewis bounced back to vanquish people he lost to. AJ is more than capable of doing the same.

 

[Revan]

On a different note, how was (and how should have been) the third round yesterday scored? 10-8 for Ruiz?

Genuinely interesting, don't remember seeing a boxer getting knocked down, only to come back and knock down the other boxer twice. I know that if both boxers gets knocked down typically there aren't deductions, but that was a bit different, with the one who got knocked down first, knocking down the other twice.

 

[Andycoleno9]

With Joshua i have a feeling that every match is 50:50. He is not dominating in fights. Easily tired, weak chin and i have a feeling that he doesn't have that killer instinct inside him. I am very disappointed. I thought that he will rule for years.
All respect to Ruiz but come on, Wilder or Fury would/will destroy this guy

 

[Revan]

With Joshua i have a feeling that every match is 50:50. He is not dominating in fights. Easily tired, weak chin and i have a feeling that he doesn't have that killer instinct inside him. I am very disappointed. I thought that he will rule for years.
All respect to Ruiz but come on, Wilder or Fury would/will destroy this guy

Not sure. Wilder is very hittable, and Ruiz has insane hands' speed.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Not sure. Wilder is very hittable, and Ruiz has insane hands' speed.

Good point. I don't rate Wilder much but he beat Fury who has far better technique than him. He has that killer instinct which again AJ doesn't have.
I don't know, after this fight i have a feeling that i don't know absolutely anything about boxing. Except that i overrated AJ

I only know that Lewis, Tyson or even Klitchko in best days would destroy all boxers today

 

[Revan]

Good point. I don't rate Wilder much but he beat Fury who has far better technique than him. He has that killer instinct which again AJ doesn't have.
I don't know, after this fight i have a feeling that i don't know absolutely anything Bout boxing. Except that i overrated AJ

He didn't. He got a draw, which was called a robbery from most people. Fury won that fight in the eyes of almost everyone.

Main difference I see between Wilder and AJ, is that Wilder doesn't get gassed as often as Joshua. That, and him somehow having even worse boxing fundamentals.

I really hope that Usyk is able to defeat everyone.

 

[Andycoleno9]

He didn't. He got a draw, which was called a robbery from most people. Fury won that fight in the eyes of almost everyone.

Main difference I see between Wilder and AJ, is that Wilder doesn't get gassed as often as Joshua. That, and him somehow having even worse boxing fundamentals.

I really hope that Usyk is able to defeat everyone.

I forgot that it was a draw. . Btw, what is next? Joshua will have rematch with Ruiz. When will be Wilder and Fury rematch?

 

[Samid]

So when will we see this fat bloke vs Fury? Two absolute potbellies going at each other.

 

[ivaldo]

With Joshua i have a feeling that every match is 50:50. He is not dominating in fights. Easily tired, weak chin and i have a feeling that he doesn't have that killer instinct inside him. I am very disappointed. I thought that he will rule for years.
All respect to Ruiz but come on, Wilder or Fury would/will destroy this guy

Joshua has never had a great defense. Ruiz beat him because he outboxed him and then had the punching power to finish things off. Wilder can't box so it's still a contest of who lands the big shots first. My money would still be on Joshua. Fury is a much better boxer than Joshua but he has no stopping power, so it'll be a case of whether Fury can avoid Joshuas power punches for 12 rounds. Styles make fights after all, which is why Parker lost to Joshua but beat Luiz (though I still feel Luiz probably won that fight).

 

[BlueHaze]

Wow, just found out Joshua lost. Didn't expect that one.

 

[Andycoleno9]

How Wilder all these years avoided all decent boxers( except Fury)? Joshua, Povetkin, Klitchko, Pulev...
And he dares to say that AJ is a fraud.

 

[Raoul]

How Wilder all these years avoided all decent boxers( except Fury)? Joshua, Povetkin, Klitchko, Pulev...
And he dares to say that AJ is a fraud.

In fairness, Wilder is scheduled to fight Fury, who is probably the best boxer in the world, for a 2nd time. AJ hasn't fought Fury at all, so there's little to laugh about from that perspective. AJ fighting a 41 year old Wlad has unfortunately given him an aura that he somehow fought and beat peak Klitschko, which he obviously didn't.

 

[BlueHaze]

I forgot that it was a draw. . Btw, what is next? Joshua will have rematch with Ruiz. When will be Wilder and Fury rematch?

Wilder Fury rematch looks like it's going to be in 2020 so quite a while.

 

[Raoul]

Wilder Fury rematch looks like it's going to be in 2020 so quite a while.

Wilder is apparently fighting Ortiz again before he meets Fury, so literally anything can happen.

 

[BlueHaze]

Wilder is apparently fighting Ortiz again before he meets Fury, so literally anything can happen.

Yeah, I'm just going off of what Wilder's assistant manager said. He said the rematch will take place in the first quarter of 2020 in an ESPN interview. Hope it happens sooner.

 

[Raoul]

1:45

AJ is asked what happened - he says he got caught at the top of his head and didn't recover from that. I seriously doubt he will allow that to happen again.

 

[christy87]

Wladimir, had a shit chin for years, he had some bad losses early on to bum fighters, but he changed trainers and adopted a style to protect his chin, and he became one of the best, I think AJ got complacent, he looks like he needs to freshen up his trainers, maybe they have taken him as far as they can and a new approach is needed.

 

[Summit]

On a different note, how was (and how should have been) the third round yesterday scored? 10-8 for Ruiz?

Genuinely interesting, don't remember seeing a boxer getting knocked down, only to come back and knock down the other boxer twice. I know that if both boxers gets knocked down typically there aren't deductions, but that was a bit different, with the one who got knocked down first, knocking down the other twice.

Did you never see the Prince nassem Hamed vs Kevin Kelly fight?

Think one boxer must score 10 unless the winner of the round had a point deduction

 

[starman]

Joshua was an accident waiting to happen, always a limited boxer with sheer brute strength
I always thought Wilder would be the one to knock him out, not from out boxing him but from Joshua's limitations not being able to defend his windmill punches...

Ruiz is no where near the biggest puncher hes fought but he's has very good timing, its the main reason he gets away with being completely out of shape. I thought Ruiz would trouble him and be awkward but didn't expect him actually winning, expected Joshua to end up powering through like against Povetkin, but he looked nervous even when he was being announced in the ring.

 

[The Cat]

He’s significantly better than Bruno imo. Probably closer to Lewis, who bounced right back after getting KO’d v Rahman. AJ just needs to adjust his tactics for the next one and he will probably win by early KO.

I'm just passing on what my mate said a long time ago and he said it when Joshua was winning easily. I'm not knocking him I'd never knock anyone who is brave enough to do that for a living. I wish Fury could punch heavier though that would make him unbeatable bar an upset like last night. They all have weaknesses obviously.

 

[Summit]

1:45

AJ is asked what happened - he says he got caught at the top of his head and didn't recover from that. I seriously doubt he will allow that to happen again.

What a fecking strange watch that was. Doesn't come across like somone who is hurting from that loss which I find strange. Even at the end he seemed genuinely happy inside the ring at being beaten. Might just be me but to me but I find it weird.

As for not letting it happen again. This happened in the Vladimir fight but lucky for him Vlad for some reason backed off when he had him. This is what would of happened that fight had Vlad kept on him like Ruiz

 

[Fortitude]

It's funny when a fighter loses people are really knee jerk with it. Let's see how Joshua comes back before saying he's done, has a shit chin etc. He had a bad night but nearly every fighter loses. It's the same reaction of he wins we would all say he's fighting bums. I think he struggles in the rematch cos Ruiz was clearly under rated but I don't think Joshua is some awful fighter like is being made out.

It's funny how everyone's a genius who saw this coming after the fact, but said nothing all the time Joshua was on the rise or at the top.

Nothing new or different from Joshua in this fight, but that lack of head movement and stamina is absolutely ruinous.

 

[Revan]

Did you never see the Prince nassem Hamed vs Kevin Kelly fight?

Think one boxer must score 10 unless the winner of the round had a point deduction

Yeah, what I mean is should have been 10-9 or 10-8 for Ruiz?

 

[Summit]

Yeah, what I mean is should have been 10-9 or 10-8 for Ruiz?

Would of thought 10-8

 

[Raoul]

What a fecking strange watch that was. Doesn't come across like somone who is hurting from that loss which I find strange. Even at the end he seemed genuinely happy inside the ring at being beaten. Might just be me but to me but I find it weird.

As for not letting it happen again. This happened in the Vladimir fight but lucky for him Vlad for some reason backed off when he had him. This is what would of happened that fight had Vlad kept on him like Ruiz

Yeah AJ's a bit too humble and positive imo. It would make the fans feel a bit better if he came across as more annoyed and itching to correct his mistakes in the rematch. The big takeaway for me is that a head shot probably mildly concussed him early on, which would explain his timidness and general lack of aggression from that point forward (with the exception of the late hook that came within inches of decapitating Ruiz). Pretty confident AJ will beat him fairly easily in the rematch.

 

[Fortitude]

Not sure. Wilder is very hittable, and Ruiz has insane hands' speed.

Hope this doesn't become a thing on here - it's not even close to being true. Joshua is slow, which is going to make decent hands look fast. Insane hand speed, Ruiz has nothing close to - that'd be a Clay, just converted Ali, young Tyson, a young Bowe and so on and so forth. He is a sloth by comparison.

 

[jimmyb2000]

What a fecking strange watch that was. Doesn't come across like somone who is hurting from that loss which I find strange. Even at the end he seemed genuinely happy inside the ring at being beaten. Might just be me but to me but I find it weird.

As for not letting it happen again. This happened in the Vladimir fight but lucky for him Vlad for some reason backed off when he had him. This is what would of happened that fight had Vlad kept on him like Ruiz

I thought Joshua seemed a bit odd all night. In the ring after the fight one of the commentators asked him something along the lines of how it felt to have lost (his unbeaten record) to Andy Ruiz....Joshua replied "I wish it was Wilder"

I've never ever heard a beaten boxer at any level say anything like that.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

He doesn't come across as especially humble to me, the whole post fight I found to be quite conceited from him. However I do think he'd accepted defeat far before it ended.

 

[Raoul]

I thought Joshua seemed a bit odd all night. In the ring after the fight one of the commentators asked him something along the lines of how it felt to have lost (his unbeaten record) to Andy Ruiz....Joshua replied "I wish it was Wilder"

I've never ever heard a beaten boxer at any level say anything like that.

He was probably concussed.

 

[Andycoleno9]

In fairness, Wilder is scheduled to fight Fury, who is probably the best boxer in the world, for a 2nd time. AJ hasn't fought Fury at all, so there's little to laugh about from that perspective. AJ fighting a 41 year old Wlad has unfortunately given him an aura that he somehow fought and beat peak Klitschko, which he obviously didn't.

As i said, one match against Fury which was robbery. At least AJ won against Vladimir who despite his age ruled for a decade in a pro boxing and after that AJ beat Povetkin who is also a good fighter. Wilder should be quiet regarding that topic. His pro career is weaker than AJ's. Nevertheless, if/when he beats Fury than he can talk.

 

[Raoul]

As i said, one match against Fury which was robbery. At least AJ won against Vladimir who despite his age ruled for a decade in a pro boxing and after that AJ beat Povetkin who is also a good fighter. Wilder should be quiet regarding that topic. His pro career is weaker than AJ's. Nevertheless, if/when he beats Fury than he can talk.

Wlad was 41, Povetkin is 39. The Parker fight was unimpressive, and he hasn't fought Pulev.

I guess that leaves White ?

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Thing is, that was a fluke. From what I remember, Lewis was dominating the fight and suddenly got caught from a big punch and was out cold. Anyone knew that he is going to win the rematch.

Here, Ruiz made Joshua his bitch and dropped him 4 times. Hardly a fluke, he was by far the better boxer in this fight, and Joshua will have problems in the rematch.

Yeah, Lewis was one shot KO’d, Joshua was beaten up. Lewis also arrived in South Africa the week of the fight so didn’t even have time to acclimate because he was too busy filming Oceans Eleven.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

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Slightly more gracious than Wilder's first reaction.

Makes Wilder look bad because he’s the one who rejected the fight and said he wants to marinate it now he’s claiming a victory via Ruiz. Ruiz had more courage than Wilder and has a result now has more belts and a better resume. He also got a major gift against Fury so not sure what his “gift” talk is.

Joshua and Wilder both took Ls last night.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Have to say, as much as AJ looked off, this Ruiz guy has some serious tools in his arsenal. His handspeed is preposterous, and he's got a granite chin. But that handspeed

Ruiz is a much more natural boxer. It’s something he’s done since he was a kid and had far more amateur fights than Joshua. Joshua started relatively late and has been made into a boxer.

Ruiz’ handspeed, counter puncher and heart were impressive but his chin really put him in position. Those were extremely hard shots Joshua landed in round 3 and that hook in round 7 just before Ruiz scored the stoppage would have dropped most. Ruiz didn’t flinch.

 

[RedFish]

Parker must be thinking ''I beat this guy!''.
I'd Ruiz winning that one too.

 

[Kazi]

On a different note, how was (and how should have been) the third round yesterday scored? 10-8 for Ruiz?

Genuinely interesting, don't remember seeing a boxer getting knocked down, only to come back and knock down the other boxer twice. I know that if both boxers gets knocked down typically there aren't deductions, but that was a bit different, with the one who got knocked down first, knocking down the other twice.

10-8 is correct I think. Ruiz won the round and had one additional knockdown.