The RedCafe Boxing Thread

[Relfy]

I'll be intrigued to see what AJ does to correct this. There have been questions about his ability and stamina before, and these have now been highlighted dramatically. He seems very close with his team, but I do wonder whether he may make some changes behind the scenes. I doubt he switches trainer, McCrakcen is fairly solid and he has the set up he wants in Sheffield. He is by all accounts a creature of habit, so making sweeping changes may rock the boat too much and add to the negatives.

It's a major kick in the balls for all parties, apart from Al Haymon who has all the belts within this stable of fighters now. The money would still be good, but it won't be as great as it could have been, nor will the build up, but hopefully it helps make the fights. No one is going to be scared of AJ now. Even the likes of say Pulev, who was mooted to be the next opponent would fancy his chances if he comes in swinging.

All attention now switches Wilder and Fury. Wilder will take out Ortiz, I think, Fury beats Schwartz, then they can rematch end of the year/start of next year. The winner then needs to go after winner of Ruiz and AJ to unify the division.

There's a few rumors that AJ may have been KO'd in sparring and was suffering from the effects on fight night - anyone know who was brought in for sparring?

Also some noise being made about AJs dad trying to get hold of Eddie Hearn and AJ stepped in and held him off. There must be more to that situation than his old man being pissed off his son just got a beating.

 

[Escobar]

Wilder doesnt seem to be liked on here. I like him as a fighter I have to say - of course, not a technical or "clean" boxer, but devastating power and energy. Fury is a great boxer as well but AJ has always been overhyped imo. Happy that the hype has ended now. He has always been too one dimensional for me and lacked finesse/technique but at the same time also energy/stamina. Let's see if he's willing to change, he seemed overconfident and complacent for too long

 

[RedFish]

AJ has always had glaring deficiencies. He stands like a statue in front of his opponents, a 'standing' duck when stunned. The Dillian Whyte fight showed that. He's tried to make adjustments, and the Parker fight showed that, but he's never going to be a Usyk. I think he severely underestimated Ruiz is an naturally instinctive boxer, not dissimilar to Fury - Both have been fighting since an early age. Joshua is cumbersome and robotic by comparision.

 

[Raees]

Wilder doesnt seem to be liked on here. I like him as a fighter I have to say - of course, not a technical or "clean" boxer, but devastating power and energy. Fury is a great boxer as well but AJ has always been overhyped imo. Happy that the hype has ended now. He has always been too one dimensional for me and lacked finesse/technique but at the same time also energy/stamina. Let's see if he's willing to change, he seemed overconfident and complacent for too long

Concur with your thoughts on Wilder. I rewatched his fight with Fury and whilst Fury did make him look like a mug for the most part, he was always a 'threat' and Fury does respect him as a 'knockout artist'. He's a legit if limited fighter.

 

[2mufc0]

Fury is the best of the 3 imo.

 

[Escobar]

Concur with your thoughts on Wilder. I rewatched his fight with Fury and whilst Fury did make him look like a mug for the most part, he was always a 'threat' and Fury does respect him as a 'knockout artist'. He's a legit if limited fighter.

From a technical point of view, no doubt. But we all know the most pleasing on the eye is not the best overall. I will bet on Wilder to win against Fury on their next fight. and Joshua to lose against both if these fights ever happen.

 

[Escobar]

Fury is the best of the 3 imo.

Best in terms of what? From a movement, technical point of view, sure. But I think Wilder is much better than he gets credit for

 

[2mufc0]

Best in terms of what? From a movement, technical point of view, sure. But I think Wilder is much better than he gets credit for

Overall, he also has the best chin/heart out of the 3 too.

 

[fergies coat]

I think the overrating of Wilder has gone into overdrive after his 1st round knockout win.

Breazeale was custom made for him. Let’s not forget Wilder struggled against Molina and Washington.

It’s going to be interesting what Joshua does in a rematch. It seems he hasn’t improved to much since the Wladamir win.

These fighters aren’t as good as Tyson, Lewis and Holyfield, but at least the heavyweight division is interesting again.

 

[BobbyManc]

There's a few rumors that AJ may have been KO'd in sparring and was suffering from the effects on fight night - anyone know who was brought in for sparring?

Also some noise being made about AJs dad trying to get hold of Eddie Hearn and AJ stepped in and held him off. There must be more to that situation than his old man being pissed off his son just got a beating.

In the ring after the fight when Ruiz is getting interviewed you can see Joshua's dad trying to confront Hearn and having a go at him, Joshua is trying to calm the situation. Hearn does what he does best and looks like a smug bellend without saying much back. I didn't watch the fight but having seen clips now of Joshua before it and his questions in between rounds, I think it's almost certain that something was up with him before the fight.

 

[Oggmonster]

Wilder doesnt seem to be liked on here. I like him as a fighter I have to say - of course, not a technical or "clean" boxer, but devastating power and energy. Fury is a great boxer as well but AJ has always been overhyped imo. Happy that the hype has ended now. He has always been too one dimensional for me and lacked finesse/technique but at the same time also energy/stamina. Let's see if he's willing to change, he seemed overconfident and complacent for too long

He comes out and says stuff that doesn't help him at all. Wanting a body on his record being the most ridiculous, it's normal people won't like him when he's saying stuff like that.

In the ring after the fight when Ruiz is getting interviewed you can see Joshua's dad trying to confront Hearn and having a go at him, Joshua is trying to calm the situation. Hearn does what he does best and looks like a smug bellend without saying much back. I didn't watch the fight but having seen clips now of Joshua before it and his questions in between rounds, I think it's almost certain that something was up with him before the fight.

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Yeah you can see it in that video behind Ruiz, all a bit odd, John Fury said about it on Twitter as well so I'm guessing there's something in the story.

 

[Revan]

Best thing to come out of Ruiz beating Joshua is that it's a big feck you to greedy boxing promoters, waiting year on year for the maximum profit. Maybe now, fight should get made when they're 'supposed' to happen. Somehow I doubt it.

Yep. All three of them lost a lot of money, all because they wanted to avoid each other in order to get more money in the future. A potential match between Joshua and Fury/Wilder has been hyped to ridiculous levels.

After Joshua lost, any possible fight will likely generate less money. It serves them right.

 

[Oggmonster]

Yep. All three of them lost a lot of money, all because they wanted to avoid each other in order to get more money in the future. A potential match between Joshua and Fury/Wilder has been hyped to ridiculous levels.

After Joshua lost, any possible fight will likely generate less money. It serves them right.

I reckon it depends on the rematch. If Joshua goes in and gets him out early like he is capable of doing and the other 2 win then a fight is back on the cards. It's pretty easy to spin it as a redemption story or whatever they want really. If he loses again then it's pretty much lost all interest.

If he wins (I think he'll struggle) then the loss potentially speeds up the super fight with one of Wilder or Fury as they are aware he is beatable now.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Best in terms of what? From a movement, technical point of view, sure. But I think Wilder is much better than he gets credit for

If Wilder gets any credit for technique it's too much. The man can't throw an uppercut, his left hook is whatever, his body punching non existent. He really just has right hand power. His biggest strength is his level of competition/era IMO. Fury schooled him.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

People using Ruiz as an example of what Wilder could do to Joshua aren't making any sense. Ruiz, with his short arms and hooking style was using a different shot selection to what Wilder has available to him and also fights in the pocket the whole time (because he has no choice, but to) whereas Wilder is teeing his shots up and setting up the stupid overhand shots from miles out with very little volume.

The issue for Joshua with Wilder always was, and still remains to be, that the speed and torque at the end of a Wilder looping shot in combination with Joshua's lack of head movement and reflexive countering was a recipe for a tremendous, clubbing knockout unless Joshua could shoot out snapping jabs and straights down the middle before Wilder could get his clumsy, but devastating shots off.

It wouldn't be some spectacle of boxing, but a KO could happen at any time, which would make it a 'thrilling' watch. The only thing the Ruiz fight changed was the amount of money any so-called super-fight would generate and I think it serves all 3 them right that a blot in the ointment has messed up the money for all 3 of them. All that posturing and pussyfooting has cost them 100's of millions of dollars and made rematches and trilogies a lot less lucrative than they could or would have been.

We'll get to see what Joshua's made of in the rematch - all that wealth may have changed him. One would hope the humiliation of such a defeat lights a fire under him and gets him to the best version of himself he can be. I think all 3 of them, assuming Joshua gets the belts back, will want to expedite the process of getting fights made, if not to find out who is the best, then to generate as much money as they can before calling it a day. They all need each other; I bet Wilder's tweet was more him thinking 'nooooo! my moneyyyyy!' than bad blood toward Joshua as a human being.

Hopefully Ruiz is the catalyst for the HW division now as his interjection has taken a lot of the power and posturing away from Hearn and I think any of the 3 camps will be more willing to get the fights made - Hearn has to gamble on his cash cow, too, as another loss (especially to Ruiz) will be absolutely financially devastating, but even if he gets the belts back, the only real option now is to go after the blockbuster fights as AJ verses bums is just not going to cut it anymore as his aura has taken a massive knock with that "0" being wiped out in such an emphatic, drawn out manner.

Wholeheartedly agree. Joshua-Wilder is still two chinny, vulnerable guys with TNT power. Joshua likely lands first still and probably ends it. He has more tools and I think his short hook and/or uppercut lands before Wilder's sloppy, looping right.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Ali is my no.1 then there's like 5 to 6 which I can't separate, but I also highly rate some of the older legends like Marciano and Dempsey . Lewis's style and lack of charisma keeps him out of the top tier for me, great HW but I would put him in the same tier as the Klits, Holyfield, Foreman etc. Obviously this is all subjective depending on what you value more, I just never took to Lennox as the fighter or personality.

Lewis' charisma or lack thereof shouldn't factor in when assessing his historical standing. Style sounds more like a personal taste. There's been boring fighters that were unquestionably great. Floyd Mayweather for example.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Lomachenko appears to be confirming he'll be fighting Luke Campbell for the WBC title in England on August 31st.

 

[Spiersey]

Apparently AJ had a panic attack in his dressing room and his dad wanted it called off. Hearn said he'd be fine once he was in the ring which was what caused the confrontation post fight (allegedly).

 

[Spoony]

Apparently AJ had a panic attack in his dressing room and his dad wanted it called off. Hearn said he'd be fine once he was in the ring which was what caused the confrontation post fight (allegedly).

Why would he have a panic attack?? First bout or something?? Was he fighting prime Tyson or Ali? Excuses no doubt.

 

[Bubz27]

Why would he have a panic attack?? First bout or something?? Was he fighting prime Tyson or Ali? Excuses no doubt.

It might be excuses absolutely, but pressure to put on a performance after what Wilder did to Brezeale could easily cause that. Or even first time in America. MSG has serious history behind it.

 

[Raees]

Apparently AJ had a panic attack in his dressing room and his dad wanted it called off. Hearn said he'd be fine once he was in the ring which was what caused the confrontation post fight (allegedly).

Would make sense seeing as so many were saying he seemed off in the ring walk and looked so dead throughout even post match.

Problem is that it is a sign of underlying weakness in terms of mental strength .. if he’s panicking fighting a no body imagine if he’s going into a fight with Wilder or Fury.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Would make sense seeing as so many were saying he seemed off in the ring walk and looked so dead throughout even post match.

Problem is that it is a sign of underlying weakness in terms of mental strength .. if he’s panicking fighting a no body imagine if he’s going into a fight with Wilder or Fury.

Seems a bit of a simplistic take given he’s proven himself to be one of the coolest fighters you’ll ever see in massive occasions, like against Klit in front of 80000 fans. Panic attacks can happen is absence of stress.

 

[Kazi]

Excuses

Golovkin was as sick as a dog in the run up to his US debut vs Proksa. But he handled it like a man.

Eddie will probably angle for himself vs Joshua’s dad on ppv

 

[Spoony]

It might be excuses absolutely, but pressure to put on a performance after what Wilder did to Brezeale could easily cause that. Or even first time in America. MSG has serious history behind it.

Perhaps, I was being too harsh. I feel sorry for him if he sufferered a panic attack prior to the bout.

 

[RedFish]

Perhaps, I was being too harsh. I feel sorry for him if he sufferered a panic attack prior to the bout.

Let's see how he comes back from it. He can have it all again if he wants it enough,I'm convinced of that. He needs to play to he is strengths and keep it simple, and work on his head movement. One loss on his record is nothing in the grand scheme of things. We'll see what he's made of now.

 

[Raoul]

I think the overrating of Wilder has gone into overdrive after his 1st round knockout win.

Breazeale was custom made for him. Let’s not forget Wilder struggled against Molina and Washington.

It’s going to be interesting what Joshua does in a rematch. It seems he hasn’t improved to much since the Wladamir win.

These fighters aren’t as good as Tyson, Lewis and Holyfield, but at least the heavyweight division is interesting again.

Wilder isn't overhyped at all imo. Until he loses (as in actually loses according to the judges) he will continue to be undefeated and continue receiving the hype he's been getting. There is however a fair case to be made that AJ was overhyped after this weekend.

 

[SambaBoy]

I heard that AJ got dropped and KO in sparring in the weeks leading up to the fight. One of them being by Abit Kabayel who has beat Derek Chisora in the past but is a European level fighter.

Rumours that he was not 100% going into the fight because of this and that he had a panic attack on the day of the fight. I don't quite believe the panic attack part, there's no way he would have lasted that long if he had a panic attack and he was looking ok before he got dropped.

Still all the talk is about the big 3. Joshua, Wilder and Fury, can anyone see Whyte upsetting the apple cart with a win over one of them. For me, Usyk could be the biggest threat. Obviously he would have to be wary of the power punches of AJ and Wilder but so does every other fighter. His speed and footwork would lead them both a merry dance and he would definitely outbox both of them. Maybe less so with Fury who would keep him at range and probably get a pts win. It's a shame he got injured in the build up to the Takam fight.

 

[Fortitude]

I've seen this rumour on numerous fora now and I wouldn't at all be surprised if it's true, like all of it. Joshua himself is not using it as an excuse, but the chain of events, and his 'off' demeanour the whole fight, even before getting in the ring, does lend itself to him not being himself.

The self-imposed pressure to perform at the MGM and give a new, partisan audience a show:

“Ruiz is a different kind of challenge but one I embrace. We have worked in the boxing gym week on week and whomever is put in front of me at Madison Square Garden on June 1 will be dispatched in style.”

as well as having no home comfort could be enough to generate a panic attack, that too, with the rumours of not being recovered (possibly concussed) going into the ring. It's a deluge of shitty circumstances whether taken as a reason to lose, or not.

Him being over eager to finish Ruiz once he knocked him down could lend itself to trying to make an impression for the US audience, or it could be anxiety and anxiousness to get the job done and get himself out of there.

I'm quite indifferent to Joshua, but none of the above is implausible to me as he didn't look himself at any time during that bout - it's not the first time he's been wobbled or in a difficult situation in the ring (Whyte is probably the best example of a similar scenario) but it's the first time he's acted like he was discombobulated; not listening to his corner, or, should I say not seeming to process what they were saying to him, the constant asking of weird questions and repeating them, too, are signs of concussion, and that went on from the first time he went back to his corner after being dropped. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's not an AJ M.O after a drop or being wobbled, is it?

I can understand Joshua's dad's ire, but it's on the fighter, or his corner, to call off the fight, and I can bet there was a hesitancy to do so for such a symbolic, first-time bout in America, at the MGM, no less.

The re-match will tell us whether the talk is true. I don't think Joshua is anywhere near as bad as people like to make out after the Ruiz bout; he's nowhere near as good as some people seemed to think prior to this bout either, but something does feel very off about this whole affair.

 

[Oggmonster]

I've seen this rumour on numerous fora now and I wouldn't at all be surprised if it's true, like all of it. Joshua himself is not using it as an excuse, but the chain of events, and his 'off' demeanour the whole fight, even before getting in the ring, does lend itself to him not being himself.

The self-imposed pressure to perform at the MGM and give a new, partisan audience a show:



as well as having no home comfort could be enough to generate a panic attack, that too, with the rumours of not being recovered (possibly concussed) going into the ring. It's a deluge of shitty circumstances whether taken as a reason to lose, or not.

Him being over eager to finish Ruiz once he knocked him down could lend itself to trying to make an impression for the US audience, or it could be anxiety and anxiousness to get the job done and get himself out of there.

I'm quite indifferent to Joshua, but none of the above is implausible to me as he didn't look himself at any time during that bout - it's not the first time he's been wobbled or in a difficult situation in the ring (Whyte is probably the best example of a similar scenario) but it's the first time he's acted like he was discombobulated; not listening to his corner, or, should I say not seeming to process what they were saying to him, the constant asking of weird questions and repeating them, too, are signs of concussion, and that went on from the first time he went back to his corner after being dropped. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's not an AJ M.O after a drop or being wobbled, is it?

I can understand Joshua's dad's ire, but it's on the fighter, or his corner, to call off the fight, and I can bet there was a hesitancy to do so for such a symbolic, first-time bout in America, at the MGM, no less.

The re-match will tell us whether the talk is true. I don't think Joshua is anywhere near as bad as people like to make out after the Ruiz bout; he's nowhere near as good as some people seemed to think prior to this bout either, but something does feel very off about this whole affair.

Re the bolded part I think it's fair to say a promoter has a lot of influence over them though and can put a lot of pressure on the fighters to make sure the show goes on For everyone's benefit (except the health of the fighters)

I dunno what's true really Hearn has responded to comments saying it's all bollocks I doubt we will ever know really

 

[pocco]

I've seen this rumour on numerous fora now and I wouldn't at all be surprised if it's true, like all of it. Joshua himself is not using it as an excuse, but the chain of events, and his 'off' demeanour the whole fight, even before getting in the ring, does lend itself to him not being himself.

The self-imposed pressure to perform at the MGM and give a new, partisan audience a show:



as well as having no home comfort could be enough to generate a panic attack, that too, with the rumours of not being recovered (possibly concussed) going into the ring. It's a deluge of shitty circumstances whether taken as a reason to lose, or not.

Him being over eager to finish Ruiz once he knocked him down could lend itself to trying to make an impression for the US audience, or it could be anxiety and anxiousness to get the job done and get himself out of there.

I'm quite indifferent to Joshua, but none of the above is implausible to me as he didn't look himself at any time during that bout - it's not the first time he's been wobbled or in a difficult situation in the ring (Whyte is probably the best example of a similar scenario) but it's the first time he's acted like he was discombobulated; not listening to his corner, or, should I say not seeming to process what they were saying to him, the constant asking of weird questions and repeating them, too, are signs of concussion, and that went on from the first time he went back to his corner after being dropped. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's not an AJ M.O after a drop or being wobbled, is it?

I can understand Joshua's dad's ire, but it's on the fighter, or his corner, to call off the fight, and I can bet there was a hesitancy to do so for such a symbolic, first-time bout in America, at the MGM, no less.

The re-match will tell us whether the talk is true. I don't think Joshua is anywhere near as bad as people like to make out after the Ruiz bout; he's nowhere near as good as some people seemed to think prior to this bout either, but something does feel very off about this whole affair.

I think it's something more simple than that and Teddy Atlas called it. He got hit hard behind the ear and it messed him up. AJ even said this himself.

 

[Fortitude]

Re the bolded part I think it's fair to say a promoter has a lot of influence over them though and can put a lot of pressure on the fighters to make sure the show goes on For everyone's benefit (except the health of the fighters)

I dunno what's true really Hearn has responded to comments saying it's all bollocks I doubt we will ever know really

Hearn's not going to tell the truth is he? It makes him look bad, if what's been said is correct.
Hearn can't lead Joshua, of course that's a big pressure to go against, but Joshua, or his camp's word, would be final. I think Joshua is the type who'd go through with it even if he shouldn't, though so I doubt it was an issue between the two of them even if it was for his dad.

I think it's something more simple than that and Teddy Atlas called it. He got hit hard behind the ear and it messed him up. AJ even said this himself.

I think that blow would have compounded matters, but Joshua didn't look 'himself' at any point, even before that, even in the walk to the ring.

It just wouldn't surprise me at all if the rumours swirling around this fight are actually true.

Joshua's not said a word about it and probably won't until potentially reclaiming the belt.

 

[Oggmonster]

Hearn's not going to tell the truth is he? It makes him look bad, if what's been said is correct.
Hearn can't lead Joshua, of course that's a big pressure to go against, but Joshua, or his camp's word, would be final. I think Joshua is the type who'd go through with it even if he shouldn't, though so I doubt it was an issue between the two of them even if it was for his dad.
I think that blow would have compounded matters, but Joshua didn't look 'himself' at any point, even before that, even in the walk to the ring.

It just wouldn't surprise me at all if the rumours swirling around this fight are actually true.

Joshua's not said a word about it and probably won't until potentially reclaiming the belt.

In fairness no one knows what the relationship is like so its just speculation.

On the face of it I'd of said Mike Tyson's word would be final but he was constantly pressured and abused by Don King.

It is all speculation really, no one knows if there was an issue or not really, it would be nice if it was confirmed either way but I doubt it is (and if it is it will be years from now.)

 

[Fortitude]

In fairness no one knows what the relationship is like so its just speculation.

On the face of it I'd of said Mike Tyson's word would be final but he was constantly pressured and abused by Don King.

It is all speculation really, no one knows if there was an issue or not really, it would be nice if it was confirmed either way but I doubt it is (and if it is it will be years from now.)

I wouldn't compare those two at all. Tyson was a man-child who foolishly trusted and relied on his handlers looking out for his best interests. Joshua doesn't need Hearn more than vice-versa and he's no mug. This is all conjecture, no doubt, but not a bit of it would read as surprising if it's how the events unfolded.

The fighter himself isn't using it as an excuse, so none of it really matters as the final outcome is he went in and got destroyed. If it was because of what supposedly went on, I bet he'll never make that mistake again.

 

[Oggmonster]

I wouldn't compare those two at all. Tyson was a man-child who foolishly trusted and relied on his handlers looking out for his best interests. Joshua doesn't need Hearn more than vice-versa and he's no mug. This is all conjecture, no doubt, but not a bit of it would read as surprising if it's how the events unfolded.

The fighter himself isn't using it as an excuse, so none of it really matters as the final outcome is he went in and got destroyed. If it was because of what supposedly went on, I bet he'll never make that mistake again.

Not comparing them as people merely stating if you looked at Tyson and his personality of what was known of him he'd not be seen as someone who could be manipulated or told what to do, turns out he could. Boxing promoters are pretty powerful people, maybe Joshua can tell Hearn to feck off and he'll do what he wants but as said anything on their reputation is pure speculation. I'm sure Joshua gets preferential treatment over other people on Matchroom like Rocky Fielding or something cos he brings more money then the rest of them in but I don't think it can be definitely said that Hearn can't lead Joshua as that is purely a guess looking from the outside in.

 

[Fortitude]

Not comparing them as people merely stating if you looked at Tyson and his personality of what was known of him he'd not be seen as someone who could be manipulated or told what to do, turns out he could. Boxing promoters are pretty powerful people, maybe Joshua can tell Hearn to feck off and he'll do what he wants but as said anything on their reputation is pure speculation. I'm sure Joshua gets preferential treatment over other people on Matchroom like Rocky Fielding or something cos he brings more money then the rest of them in but I don't think it can be definitely said that Hearn can't lead Joshua as that is purely a guess looking from the outside in.

C'mon. Tyson was always a puppet on a string, just that without Cus, the people doing the leading simply took advantage of his naivete and robbed him to almost unheard of levels. If you used the example of an Ali or someone else who was known for ridiculous mental fortitude and certainty of purpose, I'd get what you mean. Perhaps I'm splitting hairs here, but my point is, some fighters are led along and fleeced, others, absolutely not. Joshua, from my impression, would fall into the latter category. He's not going to be led along or do what he doesn't want to and I expect he wanted to go through with the bout irrespective of whatever allegedly went on beforehand rather than Hearn strong-arming him into doing so.

Hearn needs Joshua more than vice-versa, which is also paramount.

 

[Oggmonster]

C'mon. Tyson was always a puppet on a string, just that without Cus, the people doing the leading simply took advantage of his naivete and robbed him to almost unheard of levels. If you used the example of an Ali or someone else who was known for ridiculous mental fortitude and certainty of purpose, I'd get what you mean. Perhaps I'm splitting hairs here, but my point is, some fighters are led along and fleeced, others, absolutely not. Joshua, from my impression, would fall into the latter category. He's not going to be led along or do what he doesn't want to and I expect he wanted to go through with the bout irrespective of whatever allegedly went on beforehand rather than Hearn strong-arming him into doing so.

Hearn needs Joshua more than vice-versa, which is also paramount.

I'm not comparing them both in terms of their mental capabilities. My point is that boxing promoters are pretty important people (Hearn included) and that they can twist and turn people. I'm not saying Joshua definitely did cave in to any pressure, there might not of been any at all. I'm just saying boxing promoters are hugely influential in fighters careers and what they do. I don't think anyone can comment on their relationship unless people know them personally.

Do I think Hearn is as manipulative as Don King/Bob Arum etc? Probably not no. But I do think it's possible he'd pressure fighters into fighting unfit on such a massive card, especially one that had already seen one of the headline fighters be taken off it for failing a drugs test? Yes he could well do so.

Again, maybe it's all bollocks. Hearn has dismissed it all and lets be fair Joshua looked fecked from the first knockdown landing on him so he could of just been concussed. I agree with the sentiment he didn't look right before hand but that can be skewed with hindsight. We will have to see what the rematch brings, I think he struggles again personally, I think his corner seemed to have the right gameplan he just struggled to execute it.

 

[Irrational.]

"Why am I feeling like this" are the same words I said when I experienced my first full-blown panic attack. Not saying this is definitely the case here, bit it wouldn't surprise me if the rumours are true. He had the same demeanor as if there was something mentally not right.

He'll have access to world class psychologists so I'm sure that will be put right in the rematch if this is the case.

 

[RoyH1]

I find it mildly amusing that 90% of what is being written here is about what Joshua felt/did/didn’t do while neglecting Ruiz’s preparation and talent. People cannot see past his waistline and still regard him as a bit of a joke. His record suggests otherwise.

 

[Fortitude]

I find it mildly amusing that 90% of what is being written here is about what Joshua felt/did/didn’t do while neglecting Ruiz’s preparation and talent. People cannot see past his waistline and still regard him as a bit of a joke. His record suggests otherwise.

You just made up your own straw man and argued against it. What Ruiz did or didn't do hasn't got much to do with what is being discussed.

It's a pretty big deal if all of this has gone and the fighter has gone out regardless.

I'd also say nobody is disputing what transpired in the ring.

 

[Oggmonster]

I find it mildly amusing that 90% of what is being written here is about what Joshua felt/did/didn’t do while neglecting Ruiz’s preparation and talent. People cannot see past his waistline and still regard him as a bit of a joke. His record suggests otherwise.

He got his props and rightfully so and will continue to do so.

The bigger name of the 2 is Joshua though that's a simple fact and he will be the main story and talking point.

As @Fortitude rightfully says no one is disputing the action on the night