The RedCafe Boxing Thread

[Fortitude]

I tried watching but find 3 of the 4 pretty hard to watch (Froch, Bellew, Haye.) I like listening to Paulie when he's not talking about himself. When was that filmed as well? Surely his hand isn't messed up from Lobov still? I know he's the GOAT in combat sports but he couldn't of done that much damage!

Couple of weeks ago, I think. You should give it a watch and just treat their idiosyncracies as white noise - they all bring something worthwhile to the conversation (eventually) and the points they make are fair and reasoned.

Joshua's stiffness is alluded to and his inability to roll with punches - something that's been mentioned in here for a couple of years now. It pretty much means, when he gets hit, he really gets clobbered and disorientated, which is why, for me, he has to avoid a brawl with Ruiz at all costs if Ruiz still has that punch absorption he had in the first fight because it'll be Joshua hitting the deck if it's blow for blow.

I think Joshua will get a hell of a lot of kudos if he goes in there and takes Ruiz to the cleaners because most pros and fight analysts don't see it going that way at all. It would also be a fight from adversity trope that is anachronistic in this day and age of avoidance and stat padding.

 

[Oggmonster]

Couple of weeks ago, I think. You should give it a watch and just treat their idiosyncracies as white noise - they all bring something worthwhile to the conversation (eventually) and the points they make are fair and reasoned.

Joshua's stiffness is alluded to and his inability to roll with punches - something that's been mentioned in here for a couple of years now. It pretty much means, when he gets hit, he really gets clobbered and disorientated, which is why, for me, he has to avoid a brawl with Ruiz at all costs if Ruiz still has that punch absorption he had in the first fight because it'll be Joshua hitting the deck if it's blow for blow.

I think Joshua will get a hell of a lot of kudos if he goes in there and takes Ruiz to the cleaners because most pros and fight analysts don't see it going that way at all. It would also be a fight from adversity trope that is anachronistic in this day and age of avoidance and stat padding.

I'll give it a listen shortly. Got the office to myself today so be a bit of background noise. They're all pretty good when not talking about themselves just seems the likes of Froch can't go more than a minute with doing that! I'll defo check it out though.

Yeah fair comment trying to think when it's not happened, Whyte, Povetkin, Wlad and obviously Ruiz all had him troubled in parts and I think unless he stops the fight early the same thing happens again.

He'd definitely get credit especially as it's avenging a loss, the interest is where the division goes if he loses again. I think he loses a lot of name value, he'd either have to have a slow redemption (the "circuit" of Whyte, Chisora etc and maybe get in there with Fury) he could still have a career obviously but I think the star power drops massively.

 

[Thisistheone]

Joshua's stiffness is alluded to and his inability to roll with punches - something that's been mentioned in here for a couple of years now. It pretty much means, when he gets hit, he really gets clobbered and disorientated, which is why, for me, he has to avoid a brawl with Ruiz at all costs if Ruiz still has that punch absorption he had in the first fight because it'll be Joshua hitting the deck if it's blow for blow.

A key point, his stiffness. This is what makes him so vunerable & not a natural boxer in the way Fury is.

Such a massive fight. Seen some writers mention Lennox Lewis re-match with Hasim Rahman in terms of how it might define his career. Lennox went into the first fight totally under estimating Rahman and then schooled him in the re-match. Joshua needs to do the same to show his class but he might not be good enough. Certainly not in the class of Lewis. We shall see.

 

[Bubz27]

Ring walk is 8.30pm UK time according to Sky Sports.

Thanks

 

[Oggmonster]

Fair points. Guessing you all saw this:


Thought they gave a pretty good overview.

Personally, I think if Ruiz can still take hits to land his own, the fight will go his way. Joshua's jab and counter uppercut need to be on point. If it's a close range, in-fight battle, he's going to lose.

Crazy how this guy who was seen as a joke half a year ago could be the one to completely derail the Joshua money train and two potential mega fights from ever happening.

Decent watch when they're not shouting over another one.

Think the fight will be over before Haye gives a decisive answer.

 

[Verbalkint]

Question, guys. I might be in the wrong here but why on earth doesn't AJ have a killer jab? Given his size, strength and reach he should be hurting opponents big time. Vitali for example, he had a monster jab which was so effective and painful. AJ should look at him maybe.

 

[Fortitude]

I'll give it a listen shortly. Got the office to myself today so be a bit of background noise. They're all pretty good when not talking about themselves just seems the likes of Froch can't go more than a minute with doing that! I'll defo check it out though.

Yeah fair comment trying to think when it's not happened, Whyte, Povetkin, Wlad and obviously Ruiz all had him troubled in parts and I think unless he stops the fight early the same thing happens again.

He'd definitely get credit especially as it's avenging a loss, the interest is where the division goes if he loses again. I think he loses a lot of name value, he'd either have to have a slow redemption (the "circuit" of Whyte, Chisora etc and maybe get in there with Fury) he could still have a career obviously but I think the star power drops massively.

Was thinking that this is the fight of his career - a proper make or break moment. If he gets the belts back, the promotion via his redemption will go into overdrive. If he loses, his value in future negotiations will plummet.

It's got all the ingredients to be a classic no matter who wins.

A key point, his stiffness. This is what makes him so vunerable & not a natural boxer in the way Fury is.

Such a massive fight. Seen some writers mention Lennox Lewis re-match with Hasim Rahman in terms of how it might define his career. Lennox went into the first fight totally under estimating Rahman and then schooled him in the re-match. Joshua needs to do the same to show his class but he might not be good enough. Certainly not in the class of Lewis. We shall see.

Funny, was watching Lewis on Joe Rogan just yesterday!


Wouldn't surprise me if there's a massive outpouring of emotion from Joshua if he wins. He probably fees similar to how Lewis stated in that clip.

I said first fight one of the things that startled Joshua was Ruiz not only taking hs shots but firing back just as hard. He's really not used to that and he was not prepared for that kind of execution; he knows exactly what to expect this time around, so it will be interesting to see if he's good enough to keep the fight at his preferred range whilst controlling Ruiz's options.

Decent watch when they're not shouting over another one.

Think the fight will be over before Haye gives a decisive answer.

Ha!

 

[Red_Aaron]

So many comments around 'where does aj go from here' should he lose and how that will somehow mean the fury and wilder fights don't happen.

I don't see that at all, even if he loses those fights are still there purely because the HW pool is so shallow. Sure he won't be the top bill and Eddie will have to give up far more of the purse than he'd like but I still think the fights get made because AJ brings so much causal money to the fights that the opposition will want that payday.

Fury v AJ will sell out wembley even if AJ has 2 losses on his record, it'd be the biggest payday of both their careers and at the end of the day its the money that talks

 

[Kazi]

So many comments around 'where does aj go from here' should he lose and how that will somehow mean the fury and wilder fights don't happen.

I don't see that at all, even if he loses those fights are still there purely because the HW pool is so shallow. Sure he won't be the top bill and Eddie will have to give up far more of the purse than he'd like but I still think the fights get made because AJ brings so much causal money to the fights that the opposition will want that payday.

Fury v AJ will sell out wembley even if AJ has 2 losses on his record, it'd be the biggest payday of both their careers and at the end of the day its the money that talks

AJ - Fury / AJ - Wilder doesn’t happen any time soon if he takes another L. Those are mega fights and Hearn/Arum/Haymon will want to maximise revenue... that’s going to take a while to peak again if Joshua loses to the Snickers King again.

 

[T00lsh3d]

Question, guys. I might be in the wrong here but why on earth doesn't AJ have a killer jab? Given his size, strength and reach he should be hurting opponents big time. Vitali for example, he had a monster jab which was so effective and painful. AJ should look at him maybe.

He should do. I seem to remember after the Parker fight that he praised his own jab in the post-match interview. But I don’t think it’s a natural weapon of choice for him (whereas it’s most boxers first choice). He just wants to use those clubbing hooks and crosses, which tbf, battered most of his opponents into unconsciousness for his first 20-odd fights

 

[Fortitude]

Last fight:

Joshua: 245lb (258lb)

Ruiz: 262lb (268lb)

Few things:

Joshua looks around 225ish now and back to the weight and leaness he had on his way up the ladder 5 years ago. He was never fast with his hands, but if you look at footage of him at that light weight and without the bulk, he's much, much faster than he became with the mass/weight. His output should be better with the need to oxygenate over-sized muscles being less. Would wage this is part of the plan to keep Ruiz on the end of the jab all night.

In turn, there'll be less power in Joshua's punches (one would assume, as he doesn't have Odin strength of Wilder at 215lb) and that opens up the possibility of Ruiz walking through the shots to get at Joshua in double-quick time.

Ruiz supposedly is lighter for this one, but even if he is, with the weight loss of Joshua, they will remain at least equidistant in weight disparity from the first fight. Less weight should make Ruiz faster, too.

If Joshua hasn't dropped weight methodically, Ruiz's bodywork will take effect much swifter - there's no evidence to suggest he [Joshua] has cut corners in dropping the weight, so that shouldn't be an issue.

It's a fascinating contest for a myriad of reasons, not least the mental element for Joshua.

 

[Verbalkint]

Ruiz supposedly is lighter for this one, but even if he is, with the weight loss of Joshua, they will remain at least equidistant in weight disparity from the first fight. Less weight should make Ruiz faster, too.

If Joshua hasn't dropped weight methodically, Ruiz's bodywork will take effect much swifter - there's no evidence to suggest he [Joshua] has cut corners in dropping the weight, so that shouldn't be an issue.

It's a bit strange but Ruiz is coming in at exactly the same weight. Saw it in an interview last night. Looks way better though.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Question, guys. I might be in the wrong here but why on earth doesn't AJ have a killer jab? Given his size, strength and reach he should be hurting opponents big time. Vitali for example, he had a monster jab which was so effective and painful. AJ should look at him maybe.

It's not that easy to have a great jab. It takes years of practice and Joshua got into boxing at a relatively late age. It's actually surprising he's not more like Wilder in that he's a totally unskilled big man. I wouldn't describe Vitali as having a "monster jab" either. His biggest strengths were his awkwardness, his size and his great chin. He'd picked up boxing (and combat sports in general) much younger than Joshua too. Vitali was ugly to watch IMO.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

I view it as about 50/50. Joshua probably made Ruiz look better than he is, but could also be broken himself. Joshua has no head movement, gasses far too easily and doesn't take a great shot. I think he has proven a cool boxing brain in the past so if he lands first and was to follow up with caution he'd be favored because he is a good finisher. Ruiz is the better "boxer" but because of height and size can't "outbox" Joshua, but he's far less likely to gas out, not recover or get hit with the same shots repeatedly.

The psychological aspect: Joshua could be broken or perhaps Ruiz isn't as hungry or willing. He was very quick to seemingly let the overnight fame get to his head though seems to have become zoned in. I do think Joshua is a guy that takes has a lot of heart and pride and I think he will feel he has more to lose so I'd lean slightly towards him but not with any sort of conviction.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I think AJ will cook this chump with ease.

 

[poleglass red]

AJ for me convincingly this time. I think he horribly underestimated Ruiz last fight. When AJ caught him in that first fight and knocked him down, he needed to be more composed, respect the other fighters power, he didn't and paid the price. I also don't think his mindset was right in that fight, there was talk of incidents at training camp etc. I'm going to assume this time he's in perfect condition physically and mentally, if he is, only one winner for me.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

I recently had this documentary translated with English subtitles. I put it on YouTube today for anyone interested. For those unfamiliar with Jofre. I’m an unabashed fan (and I am authoring a very detailed book on his life and career) and he’s absolutely one of the greatest pound for pound in history. I don’t think there’s ever been a more complete or perfect fighter.

 

[Fortitude]

Really looking forward to this fight. Been a long time since feeling everything was at stake for a pair of heavyweights. This one really will let us know what both are made of.

Got to reiterate how impressive it will be if Joshua takes Ruiz out after putting on a statement performance.

I've got it right down the middle. Just don't know if Joshua can keep Ruiz out.

 

[The Cat]

Really looking forward to this fight. Been a long time since feeling everything was at stake for a pair of heavyweights. This one really will let us know what both are made of.

Got to reiterate how impressive it will be if Joshua takes Ruiz out after putting on a statement performance.

I've got it right down the middle. Just don't know if Joshua can keep Ruiz out.

A proper 50-50 for me as well. Luckily the local has paid for it so it's gonna be rammed and be a good atmosphere. I've read ring walk at approx. 20:30 which is such a good time, can even go out and watch the football first.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

https://www.ringtv.com/585466-fight-picks-andy-ruiz-vs-anthony-joshua-2/
https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_/id/28114273/andy-ruiz-jr-vs-anthony-joshua-2-predictions-win

Seems to be a close call for a lot of press members too. Almost split down the middle.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_...mosley-elected-international-boxing-hall-fame

The 2020 Hall of Fame class was announced yesterday. Very proud to see my man Marquez get in. I followed his career from when he was basically an unknown Mexican prospect to then being frozen out and seemingly hitting rock bottom taking an obscure fight in Indonesia getting robbed and being in the doldrums at 32 years of age. He's been my favorite boxer of my lifetime (and along with Jofre favorite of all-time) and had the pleasure of attending 11 of his fights, meeting him on several occasions and finding out he's as classy outside the ring as he is inside of it. Well deserved!

Hopkins and Mosley round off a great star studded cast. Hopkins, though not my cup of tea as a person or fighter is one of the absolute greatest boxers of the last 25 years and Mosley was a brilliant fighter in his prime too.

This will be my first time visiting the Hall of Fame on this weekend so I'm very excited. I am also trying to work on getting Jofre a formal invite as a guest of honor (he's not been since his induction in 1992 and asks his daughter if she can take him so we started talking on getting him there for June 2020 since I said I'll be attending that one), he'll be 84 by then and would be a great thrill to see him there. He's one of the top 2-3 living all-time greats. So far, the director (Ed Brophy) has proven very elusive even though he did bump into the Jofre's at a recent WBC event in Cancun and told them something to the effect he'll work with them. Let's see. I will be persistent.

 

[Verbalkint]

It's not that easy to have a great jab. It takes years of practice and Joshua got into boxing at a relatively late age. It's actually surprising he's not more like Wilder in that he's a totally unskilled big man. I wouldn't describe Vitali as having a "monster jab" either. His biggest strengths were his awkwardness, his size and his great chin. He'd picked up boxing (and combat sports in general) much younger than Joshua too. Vitali was ugly to watch IMO.

Yeah he was very awkward and hard to hit. Plus the chin. I rewatched his fight vs Sam Peter and the jab stood out i thought. He was quite good in the ring. God damn strong bastard. I think AJ would be a lot trickier if he managed distance, used the jab and his height advantage. Against Ruiz his stance negated his size i think. Wonder how the rematch will go this weekend .

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Yeah he was very awkward and hard to hit. Plus the chin. I rewatched his fight vs Sam Peter and the jab stood out i thought. He was quite good in the ring. God damn strong bastard. I think AJ would be a lot trickier if he managed distance, used the jab and his height advantage. Against Ruiz his stance negated his size i think. Wonder how the rematch will go this weekend .

I’ve always felt that Wlad was the superior talent and obviously had the better career (IMO Vitali doesn’t deserve to be in the hall of fame his resume is average) but that Vitali would beat him head to head and that isn’t a hard call to make.

 

[Danny Roberts]

If anyone wants to bet on the fight, and if you reckon it's 50/50 you should be backing Ruiz for sure. I think AJ will edge it, probably late in the fight.

However, you can join my "gran" in backing Josh at 50/1 if you want (to win but not on points).

https://bettingoffers.co/50-1-betvictor-offer/

 

[Oggmonster]

Joshua is so manufactured and fake it's hard to actually read anything he says or listen to him.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/50633807

This is ridiculous "everyone seems pretty happy and chilled" even Eddie is more honest than him! Just say you went for the shit load of money you're getting.

 

[Thisistheone]

Joshua is so manufactured and fake it's hard to actually read anything he says or listen to him.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/50633807

This is ridiculous "everyone seems pretty happy and chilled" even Eddie is more honest than him! Just say you went for the shit load of money you're getting.

Yeah some of his answers are so bizarre. Trying to speak in riddles almost. Yet you don't quite believe what he says.

Having said that I hope he wins. Its great for British boxing if Joshua is flying high.

 

[Thisistheone]

https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_...mosley-elected-international-boxing-hall-fame

The 2020 Hall of Fame class was announced yesterday. Very proud to see my man Marquez get in. I followed his career from when he was basically an unknown Mexican prospect to then being frozen out and seemingly hitting rock bottom taking an obscure fight in Indonesia getting robbed and being in the doldrums at 32 years of age. He's been my favorite boxer of my lifetime (and along with Jofre favorite of all-time) and had the pleasure of attending 11 of his fights, meeting him on several occasions and finding out he's as classy outside the ring as he is inside of it. Well deserved!

Hopkins and Mosley round off a great star studded cast. Hopkins, though not my cup of tea as a person or fighter is one of the absolute greatest boxers of the last 25 years and Mosley was a brilliant fighter in his prime too.

This will be my first time visiting the Hall of Fame on this weekend so I'm very excited. I am also trying to work on getting Jofre a formal invite as a guest of honor (he's not been since his induction in 1992 and asks his daughter if she can take him so we started talking on getting him there for June 2020 since I said I'll be attending that one), he'll be 84 by then and would be a great thrill to see him there. He's one of the top 2-3 living all-time greats. So far, the director (Ed Brophy) has proven very elusive even though he did bump into the Jofre's at a recent WBC event in Cancun and told them something to the effect he'll work with them. Let's see. I will be persistent.

Quality post mate.

 

[Oggmonster]

Yeah some of his answers are so bizarre. Trying to speak in riddles almost. Yet you don't quite believe what he says.

Having said that I hope he wins. Its great for British boxing if Joshua is flying high.

It's just weird, I get he's an image but it's so transparent now cos of how long it's gone on for and no one speaks like he does!

The Gloves are Off episode was bizarre. Took a few seconds to answer every question then gave a 5-6 word answer which was a mini motivational speech every time.

Reminds me of how Jon Jones used to be before he got exposed as being a bit of a dick.

 

[Hoof the ball]

It's a bit strange but Ruiz is coming in at exactly the same weight. Saw it in an interview last night. Looks way better though.

Recomp. Lose 5lbs fat, gain 5lbs muscle, scales show the same.

 

[The Cat]

Joshua is 10lbs lighter than last time. Ruiz is 15lbs heavier!

 

[Rooney24]

Ruiz over 20st. Christ.

Joshua 16st 3lb.

 

[No Love]

Joshua clearly looking for greater mobility and endurance. With that said, he best hope he can remain elusive, as that weight differential will do his punch resistance no favours.

Not sure what to read into Ruiz’s weight - Either he’s living the Champ life now and eating an incredible amount of food.. or he’s put his chips on the table and is coming to seek and destroy - Felt what Joshua is packing in the power department and feels confident in his ability to take it and land his own shots and finish the fight.

 

[Oggmonster]

Joshua clearly looking for greater mobility and endurance. With that said, he best hope he can remain elusive, as that weight differential will do his punch resistance no favours.

Not sure what to read into Ruiz’s weight - Either he’s living the Champ life now and eating an incredible amount of food.. or he’s put his chips on the table and is coming to seek and destroy - Felt what Joshua is packing in the power department and feels confident in his ability to take it and land his own shots and finish the fight.

Either that or it was 1 heavy sombrero!

Whyte looked awfully out of shape as well.

 

[Fortitude]

Joshua better be able to keep him out; at that weight differential, and after the first fight where we saw how hit-to-hit goes, he hasn't a hope in hell in a fire fight.

Ruiz is looking to barrel his way in and through Joshua.

Still don't know which way I'm leaning; maybe Haye was right to be so hesitant!

 

[Oggmonster]

Joshua better be able to keep him out; at that weight differential, and after the first fight where we saw how hit-to-hit goes, he hasn't a hope in hell in a fire fight.

Ruiz is looking to barrel his way in and through Joshua.

Still don't know which way I'm leaning; maybe Haye was right to be so hesitant!

I've heard he's still making his mind up, he's confident he'll have a definitive answer by Saturday around 10:30pm

 

[Fortitude]

I've heard he's still making his mind up, he's confident he'll have a definitive answer by Saturday around 10:30pm

 

[Danny Roberts]

Either that or it was 1 heavy sombrero!

Whyte looked awfully out of shape as well.

Big D WAS very good on Celebrity Masterchef though

On a vaguely serious note he came across really well in that!

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Ridiculous that Ruiz is heavier. So far he wouldn’t take his shirt off. I thought he’d knuckled down? He probably cut more corners than ever before.

 

[giorno]

Yeah, i'm not sold on this being 50/50 honestly. Especially not after the weight-in

Think AJ will win comfortably, probably by late stoppage

 

[Gentleman Jim]

Ruiz will need a KO just to get a draw.
The ref suits AJ’s style and the judges selection is a bit questionable.
This Brit shouts for Andy but is not optimistic.

Most interested in the Hunter/Povetkin undercard contest. Hunter a lot smaller and lower ranked but favourite with the bookies.
He’s taken apart a couple of big guys already with his boxing skills and movement and having called out Povetkin I’m sure he knows he can dismantle him on his way to a big payday.