People fighting over AJ vs Fury when we all know AJ is a big bum dosser and he'd get destroyed by Fury any day of the week and twice on Sunday's
The RedCafe Boxing Thread
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Alright bare with me…So hypothetically, say Joshua beats Usyk in the rematch and then goes on to somehow overcome Fury for unification, where does that leave his legacy? Is he considered best in the world/best of his generation then?
I’m aware that is currently looking unlikely but I do think he’s become a little underrated and it wouldn’t be an impossible scenario.
I’m aware that is currently looking unlikely but I do think he’s become a little underrated and it wouldn’t be an impossible scenario.
Who cares, I would just be glad to see Fury vs AJ for all the belts and be thankful to be alive during this British heavyweight era, similar to the Messi/Ronaldo situation in football*.
*No, I'm not saying Fury/AJ are that good.
Beating Usyk in a rematch, irrespective of fighting Fury, would be mammoth for Joshua's legacy. All but the most staunch of fans have him written off and give him little chance of reclaiming the belts.
Joshua would have to retain the belts after winning them against Fury and Wilder to have a claim as the de facto best of his era, but beating Usyk and Fury consecutively would be epic and unbelievable in itself as he's the underdog against both, actually, for me, he's the underdog from the four now, so his redemption arc is right there waiting to be written.
The problem now is you have two natural, born and bred boxers matching up against fighters who got into it late. It really shows, and it will most likely continue to show until the naturals fight each other and the two that got into it late face off, if that ever materialises.
Let's be honest the best boxer on the eye had to have been Pernell Whittaker
As I say, it’s not a head-to-head ranking, it’s more of what they accomplished and also relative to their eras. Bowe is held back by a very short prime and outside of a Holyfield trilogy, he has a very thin resume which includes two beatings by Golota. I could see a case for him top 20, but you’ve also got Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Floyd Patterson, three guys who I’d pick him to beat, but three guys his career was unquestionably inferior to. I would pick Bowe to beat Tyson, Marciano, Dempsey, Johnson too for what it’s worth.
I think a lot of that had to do with styles and skills. Fury got inside Wlad’s head, nullified him, took the lead and he couldn’t get into the fight. It was a dreadful fight but very effective. Wlad definitely didn’t improve in the 12+ months he had out at that age, he simply fought an opponent who presented him with opportunities that weren’t there vs. Fury. Joshua got gassed and doesn’t possess Fury’s skills or boxing IQ.
Both were great wins for their own different reasons and while the Joshua fight was a classic, I think it changed Joshua’s thinking and approach for the worse and Fury was the man to take the titles off him.
Fury has certain intangibles that would give him a very good chance of beating many of those guys you listed. He’d ruin Haye. Haye knew that and that’s why he kept pretending to want the fight and kept pulling out and ended up saying “I’ll never fight him” which leads me to believe his goal was to just stall Fury’s career for some bizarre reason or simply because he got scared. That was when Fury was green too.
Fury-Joshua, it’s a punchers chance only for AJ, and I think he’s a lot more predictable than Wilder, which means he’d likely win more rounds but is unlikely to drop Fury.
Fury’s guts, adaptability, ability to fight inside (which for a 6 9 heavy is astonishing), boxing IQ, movement, calm under pressure, natural instincts etc; make him a tough out for damn near every heavyweight who ever lived.
Chocolatito Roman Gonzalez and Terence Crawford are pretty good on the eye.
On a lesser note I’m liking Avanesyan and Jamie Munguia.
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I get where you're coming from, just that he's a proper spanner in the works given his skillset and ability when focused. 'peak' Bowe would be a problem child in ranking, but yeah, longevity and his rapid decline/disinterest does him absolutely no favours.
How do people think Fury would fair against David Tua I think he’d be a nightmare for Fury.
Really? Lennox schooled him. I’d imagine he’d struggle in the same way against Fury if Tyson stayed on the outside.
Loma? Depends what you like to see I suppose. If you say Avanesyan and I say Loma we’re probably looking for different things (not that I don’t like watching avenesyan)
one of if not the hardest flash puncher in heavyweight history, so probably not so easy. Wilder can graze a guy and he goes down.If Wilder can knock him down 3 times in total.... I'm sure others could too. I'm not sure what I think of Fury on the whole, I love that he dismantled the horrific myth of Wilder in their first fight after everything that came beforehand and also the Wlad fight... this fight was utterly pointless, he beat him in 1, and horrifically beat him in 2.... just to more or less do it again, even if he did get knocked down twice
But now he'll sit on this "greatest of my era" shit on the basis on that which is kinda true right now, boxing is shit because of it. I'm not overly sure who started this bullshit cherry picking to create false legacies, probably Sugar Rey Leonard, but Floyd took it an obscene level.... and now loads are at it.
what did he say?!?!
are they destroying him at 270lbs? I have never seen Tyson or Ali beat a 6"9 270lb man with a chin. Why are you assessing him from an old fight? Lewis nor Tyson have a right hand like Wilder. It literally gets him out of jail. He has little else but its a one hitter quitter. Like he loses every fight then lands the right. no one has that. You act like these other guys didn''t get put on their arses too. How is 5"10 Tyson laying a glove on Fury? he is giving up a foot. Heavyweights nowadays are true heavyweights.
good points
If Ali can take all big George can throw at him and still knock him out he has no problems with Fury and Mike not leave a glove on him laughable, Tyson would smash his ribs in before knocking his head off l suggest you go back and watch some old Mike footage there’s no way Fury stands up to that ferociousness Mike fought plenty of big guys.
I was thinking someone was going to say Lomachenko but you know something he never really excites me, but he is a quality operator one of the best for sure.
Tua is too old now…
J/k - I think he’d struggle to land enough on Fury and would fall behind. We know if he did land, Fury can recover and sap your strength. Ibeabuchi would be a very difficult match for Fury or anyone of recent times really. Had an unbelievable engine, bulky, great chin, power, could box and bang.
Yeah Ibeabuchi looks like he could trouble Fury, just watched the Calvin Jones fight not dissimilar to the shape of a Tyson Fury. I like the way he goes to the body first then finished him off.
Just a reminder that Fury has fought one top 10 fighter in 5 years. His resume is still not that good and it's a million miles away from being a all time great one.
Yes and yes to both. But that's a big ask.
Yeah he'd probably be too fast for Fury. The Cus era Tyson was a different beast, he was hard to hit due to his peekaboo and crouching style and he was bloody quick with his combos. Anyway, I was reading somewhere that Ali had the fastest jab apparently it was quicker than Robinson's.
Oh and Holmes is criminally underrated. I'm glad he's got a mention in this thread.
It's a CV! People stop this resume stuff!
Sorry, his CV is nothing special, then.
Love you man.
Yeah he is tough to take that much punishment from Foreman but Tyson will be grabbling him and leaning his 270lb on him to drain him. Don't think Foreman has that IQ. Also FOreman exhausted himself in a way Tyson would never due to boxing IQ and the way they pace themselves. Mike fought an 184lb man once. His heaviest opponent of 6"6 271lb Kevin Mcbride who he lost to. McBride is trash though. I foot in height difference is quite significant. Like facing a giant.
There’s a YouTube video Muhammad Ali amazing speed and there’s a point in it he has a guy up against the ropes then let’s loose. You should watch it Ali was extremely quick.
He beat Larry Holmes and he is a big guy, McBride fought the version of Tyson none of us cared to see though he was shot at that stage. Ali I think would be too fast for him and out box him a younger version of Ali maybe before the lay off that is and avoid the clinching.
Is prime Mike Tyson overrated? I don't mean Tyson's career in general but the actual prime Mike Tyson? Was he really this great at his peak? I don't have enough knowledge to judge his opponents during his prime days.
(would his prime have been from '86 to '90?)
(would his prime have been from '86 to '90?)
I think he was highly rated for years but is now being somewhat underrated not just on these boards but in general.
Tyrell Biggs was a touch under 6ft 6. Tucker too.
Tyson was great, although not as good as Holyfield or Lewis. The 90's was insane.
I believe so. I think the marketing and mythology behind the idea of a “prime Tyson” has been aggressive and has brainwashed many. He was a great talent and was explosive, accomplished a lot, but he’s not one of the best fighters ever. “Prime” Tyson had limitations too and also benefitted from an uninspired era. The perfect storm. Had he been born 5 years later he likely never wins the title because he wouldnt beat Holyfield, Bowe, or Lewis. 5 years earlier he wouldn’t beat a prime Holmes.
One of the two heavyweight golden eras IMO.
Larry is 6"3
Foreman said if Tyson had continued that peak he'd have been his number 1 HW of all time.
Peak Frazier Vs Tyson would've been interesting. I thought that Tyson probably didn't have the heart of the other greats.
Peak Frazier Vs Tyson would've been interesting. I thought that Tyson probably didn't have the heart of the other greats.
I would have LOVED to see Tyson V Foreman. If Tyson doesn't go to prison I think it happens.
An old Foreman stood his ground against a peak Holyfield. Imagine his prime...
An old Biggs gave Lewis a run for his money. And Tucker who was old gave Lennox 12rds. If we're just looking at height than Valuev pummels Haye.