Quite the oppositeI’ve just read the news. This is insane — surely this breaks all sorts of international protocols?
Yeah, I’ve been reading up on the matter as well. That’s quite insane, you’d think that there would be laws against those sort of stuff! Although hijacking a plane wasn’t even a crime in U.S. until 1961, so maybe they simply haven’t thought of that and needed a precedent.Quite the opposite
If there is a credible threat of a bomb on a plane in the air I think the protocol is to get it on the ground ASAP
So yeah all it takes is an anonymous call that a counties authorities deem credible and that plane is coming down
Very suspect of course and one expects that they were fully aware of what they were doing but officially international protocols probably gave them the opportunity to execute effectively a kidnapping via Ryan air
Stop spreading the feckin lies, they were threatened to land in Minsk. ASAP you say? Vilnius airport was much closer....They have fecking sent fighter planes for intimidation.Quite the opposite
If there is a credible threat of a bomb on a plane in the air I think the protocol is to get it on the ground ASAP
So yeah all it takes is an anonymous call that a counties authorities deem credible and that plane is coming down
Very suspect of course and one expects that they were fully aware of what they were doing but officially international protocols probably gave them the opportunity to execute effectively a kidnapping via Ryan air
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There’s very weird inconsistency in timing as they’ve turned around slightly before the alarm was turned on, but we’ll find out more soon enough, I’m sure on that.Stop spreading the feckin lies, they were threatened to land in Minsk.
But somebody got arrested. A false bomb call doesn't just lead to a passenger being arrested. Can't there be retroactive punishments?Quite the opposite
If there is a credible threat of a bomb on a plane in the air I think the protocol is to get it on the ground ASAP
So yeah all it takes is an anonymous call that a counties authorities deem credible and that plane is coming down
Very suspect of course and one expects that they were fully aware of what they were doing but officially international protocols probably gave them the opportunity to execute effectively a kidnapping via Ryan air
It does if the passenger in question had an arrest warrent open and they have now entered that countries jurisdiction... sneeky... abhorant... but hats off its cleverly inventive and you need quite big balls to not give a fekBut somebody got arrested. A false bomb call doesn't just lead to a passenger being arrested. Can't there be retroactive punishments?
Yeah, hopefully - but I thought that was the assumption now (that it's unsustainable), so let's see what happens now Lukashenko is probably resigned to relying on Russia's help to stay in power. We may have gotten closer to the scenario where Belarus joins Russia than where Lukashenko is replaced in an independent Belarus.Lukashenko rules with an iron fist, arresting people one by one retroactively (as well as for any hint of their support for the opposition). The only hope is that this system is not sustainable in the long run, but who knows how long he can do it, especially with full support from Russia.
That's what I'd suppose: Belarus air traffic control tells the pilot that's there's a credible bomb threat and to divert immediately to Minsk airport, accompanied by a fighter jet. What's a pilot to do other than comply? Even if he would have known about his passenger.)There’s very weird inconsistency in timing as they’ve turned around slightly before the alarm was turned on, but we’ll find out more soon enough, I’m sure on that.
It looks like the pilot had no choice from a juridical point of view, even though it was closer to flight’s original destination airport than to Minsk from the point of the turn. But a military plane flighting alongside it certainly secured pilot’s decision.
If the pilot wasn’t in on it, I’d imagine that he wouldn’t have any reason not to comply though, how would he know that one of his passengers were at such a risk?
I think Belarus is well past the point of caring about what anyone thinks but Russia. It's not like they have any reputation left to save with the rest of Europe or the US.It does if the passenger in question had an arrest warrent open and they have now entered that countries jurisdiction... sneeky... abhorant... but hats off its cleverly inventive and you need quite big balls to not give a fek
The ultimate irony is if something like this is pulled one day to get the Belarus president arrested in an eu country
There’s nothing sneeky about this just an act of state terrorism. 4 Russian nationals (likely kgb agents) have not reached Vilnius either - remained in Minsk. This doesn’t happen without Putin’s involvement. It’s awful to have 2 abhorrent countries on your doorstep.It does if the passenger in question had an arrest warrent open and they have now entered that countries jurisdiction... sneeky... abhorant... but hats off its cleverly inventive and you need quite big balls to not give a fek
The ultimate irony is if something like this is pulled one day to get the Belarus president arrested in an eu country
It does. There are many things ICAO can do. There is no veto in the ICAO Council. The problem is also there was precedent to these kind of issues before but never before of a alleged bomb threat to a civilian commercial flight. Nothing much Ryanair could do but Belarus should be censored for this by ICAO but I am afraid the involvement of NATO will muddy the whole thing. Let EU and ICAO handle it, since Ryanair is an EU registered airline.I’ve just read the news. This is insane — surely this breaks all sorts of international protocols?
To be fair using Ryan Air as an uber to bring your enemies to you is far cleverer than the us and uk getting caught out with their extraordinary renditions of suspects to be tortured in 3rd countriesThere’s nothing sneeky about this just an act of state terrorism. 4 Russian nationals (likely kgb agents) have not reached Vilnius either - remained in Minsk. This doesn’t happen without Putin’s involvement. It’s awful to have 2 abhorrent countries on your doorstep.
And the scary thing is that however heroic the pilot was, he simply could not put all of the passengers’ lifes at risk. Insane. I keep saying to myself that Russian & Belorussian regimes won’t be able to surprise me anymore, but I’m speechless, have been thinking about it all day.Pilot tried to escape at very high speed from Belarussian airspace but then under threat of fighter jets had to comply. Here’s the comment from airspace engineer on the trajectory of flight:
What’s the gist of this?Pilot tried to escape at very high speed from Belarussian airspace but then under threat of fighter jets had to comply. Here’s the comment from airspace engineer on the trajectory of flight:
There is no high speed escaping. This is a passenger aircraft in a controlled air space. The pilot doesn't know anything and its standard procedure to land when informed by ATC of such a threat. Also fighter escort is normal too. The flight was not intercepted so the pilot would have willingly landed when informed of a bomb.What’s the gist of this?
Thanks!There is no high speed escaping. This is a passenger aircraft in a controlled air space. The pilot doesn't know anything and its standard procedure to land when informed by ATC of such a threat. Also fighter escort is normal too. The flight was not intercepted so the pilot would have willingly landed when informed of a bomb.
The man is a raving lunatic to order such a thing to a commercial foreign airline. All airlines should suspend their flights to Belarus.
There is the precedence of forcing the official jet of the then Bolivian President in Austria. After clearing the flight, France, Spain, Italy and Portugal refused the aircraft to fly across their air space. It was forced to land in Austria due to lack of fuel, where the aircraft was searched looking for Snowdon. According to UN, a head of States aircraft enjoy immunity and inviolability. The reason why such lunatics like Lukashenko does these kinds of stuff is that someone in Europe or USA has already done it and got away with it.Crazy stuff!
Amazing that they’d do that but are they emboldened when the US & Canada does similar (reference the Meng Wanzhou arrest in Vancouver, BC)?
Admittedly the US method was a lot less messy and didn’t force any plane down.
There are lots of sanctions already. Not sure what's left to be done in that regard really - although countries are already calling for it, so apparently there is still something. On any case, as you say, Lukashenko has likely accepted his fate as a Russian vassal anyway.Surely time for massive sanctions on Belarus leadership ? No idea how effective it will be though, since they are more or less Russian satellite state.
What’s the gist of this?
I’m sorry, but this has nothing to do with what has been said in that post. More so, it’s pretty much the opposite. What you can see in that picture is that the plane was maintaining its top speed & altitude for way longer than regular flights do, usually planes already begin their descent before crossing the border, as the airport is quite close. Here it looks like the pilot actively tried to push forward & leave the Belorussian airspace, but failed to do so and had to turn towards Minsk (possibly because of the inconspicuous fighter jet that flew alongside it).There is no high speed escaping. This is a passenger aircraft in a controlled air space. The pilot doesn't know anything and its standard procedure to land when informed by ATC of such a threat. Also fighter escort is normal too. The flight was not intercepted so the pilot would have willingly landed when informed of a bomb.
The man is a raving lunatic to order such a thing to a commercial foreign airline. All airlines should suspend their flights to Belarus.
Was about the say exactly this. If the rest of the western world is able to do this with impunity then there is no reason why the Belarus president shouldn't be able to. Feel bad for the journalists obviously but that is the reality the world faces, even in these 'free' western countries, you can only say stuff to a certain level before you go too far and will be imprisoned.There is the precedence of forcing the official jet of the then Bolivian President in Austria. After clearing the flight, France, Spain, Italy and Portugal refused the aircraft to fly across their air space. It was forced to land in Austria due to lack of fuel, where the aircraft was searched looking for Snowdon. According to UN, a head of States aircraft enjoy immunity and inviolability. The reason why such lunatics like Lukashenko does these kinds of stuff is that someone in Europe or USA has already done it and got away with it.
We'll find out more in due course but it's not as simple as just flying to the closest airport. Things like facilities and the surrounding area are taken into account. For example in the UK it doesn't matter if you are right above Heathrow and about to land, if there is a threat onboard you will be sent to Stansted.There’s very weird inconsistency in timing as they’ve turned around slightly before the alarm was turned on, but we’ll find out more soon enough, I’m sure on that.
It looks like the pilot had no choice from a juridical point of view, even though it was closer to flight’s original destination airport than to Minsk from the point of the turn. But a military plane flighting alongside it certainly secured pilot’s decision.
If the pilot wasn’t in on it, I’d imagine that he wouldn’t have any reason not to comply though, how would he know that one of his passengers were at such a risk?
Nah, they've been pretty clear on the reason — it had nothing to do with (un)suitability of Vilnius' airport, Belarus had the legal right to dictate them the course of the action and so they did, no explanation required. The only purely legal issue is that, well, the bomb threat was bogus (and maybe the status of the passengers? but that I have no idea about).We'll find out more in due course but it's not as simple as just flying to the closest airport. Things like facilities and the surrounding area are taken into account. For example in the UK it doesn't matter if you are right above Heathrow and about to land, if there is a threat onboard you will be sent to Stansted.
Just my speculation now but Vilnius airport is much closer to the city and the flight path goes over populated areas.
Did they ever explain how they were able to search it? I mean, did they even have a "legal" excuse? Pretty baffling case that. It should've been discussed more at the time.There is the precedence of forcing the official jet of the then Bolivian President in Austria. After clearing the flight, France, Spain, Italy and Portugal refused the aircraft to fly across their air space. It was forced to land in Austria due to lack of fuel, where the aircraft was searched looking for Snowdon. According to UN, a head of States aircraft enjoy immunity and inviolability. The reason why such lunatics like Lukashenko does these kinds of stuff is that someone in Europe or USA has already done it and got away with it.
Reading a little more about it, there was or may have been agents on board who first notified the crew of the threat and a fighter jet arriving to accompany them. Either of those things would explain the pilots continuing on for a while instead of starting a descent, they would maintain course as they waited for instructions.Nah, they've been pretty clear on the reason — it had nothing to do with (un)suitability of Vilnius' airport, Belarus had the legal right to dictate them the course of the action and so they did, no explanation required. The only purely legal issue is that, well, the bomb threat was bogus (and maybe the status of the passengers? but that I have no idea about).
You said it.... credible threat.Quite the opposite
If there is a credible threat of a bomb on a plane in the air I think the protocol is to get it on the ground ASAP
So yeah all it takes is an anonymous call that a counties authorities deem credible and that plane is coming down
Very suspect of course and one expects that they were fully aware of what they were doing but officially international protocols probably gave them the opportunity to execute effectively a kidnapping via Ryan air
Another apologist of brutal regime. When did the west intercept civil airplane midflight with fighter jets? Stop talking total rubbish. Hopefully we hit the regime with the most strongest economic sanctions and make them fly via Russia. Should also force them out from ice hockey tournament in Riga (which Lukashenko loves) - but the corrupt federation is in bed with Lukashenko, so this will not happen.Nothing the West should do. They did something similar in the past, now they get a taste of their own medicine.
Anyway, who still flies with Ryanair nowadays?
100% but proving that is virtually impossible... as I say if somebody phones in a threat that sounds credible (and lets be honest any government's intelligent services will have people capable of doing that)... then all protocalls have been followed I thinkYou said it.... credible threat.
From what I have read, that so called credible threat was questionable at best and most probably orchestrated.
The Bolivian president claimed that the aircraft was not searched. Its still a bit murky what happened there.There is the precedence of forcing the official jet of the then Bolivian President in Austria. After clearing the flight, France, Spain, Italy and Portugal refused the aircraft to fly across their air space. It was forced to land in Austria due to lack of fuel, where the aircraft was searched looking for Snowdon. According to UN, a head of States aircraft enjoy immunity and inviolability. The reason why such lunatics like Lukashenko does these kinds of stuff is that someone in Europe or USA has already done it and got away with it.
.100% but proving that is virtually impossible... as I say if somebody phones in a threat that sounds credible (and lets be honest any government's intelligent services will have people capable of doing that)... then all protocalls have been followed I think
The pilot is in Belarus airspace and although when he did turn around Vilnius was closer when the request was made it was still Minsk I think
At that point its standard to scrable a fighter jet (incase the pilot goes all 911) and as the pilot didn't immediately comply with instructions to head to Minsk (guess it sounded dodgy to them?) But the protocol would be to tell them to comply or face being shot down
As I say totally illegal... but pretty efficiently executed (compared to say the Saudis chopping up a journalist or the uk/us chucking people on cargo planes for somebody else to torture for them)
Clearly they knew the protocols and what they were doing... Will be interesting to see if putin gives him political cover or decides he's gone too far (not a moral judgement but a Practical political one from putin)
I'd like to think all airlines will immediately stop flying there and re route away from their airspace as well
He simply can't do that. Because he is in a controlled airspace. Then if he disobey the ATC, he could lose his license (. At this moment in time he has been only told that there is a bomb on his aircraft). No one so far has said his aircraft was intercepted. So as a pilot there is no reason for him to try and escape anything at that moment in time. Aircraft can't simply descent whenever they want to descend. He is not going to Belarus. So his descending or maintaining his fl in this case doesn't depend on Belarus alone.I’m sorry, but this has nothing to do with what has been said in that post. More so, it’s pretty much the opposite. What you can see in that picture is that the plane was maintaining its top speed & altitude for way longer than regular flights do, usually planes already begin their descent before crossing the border, as the airport is quite close. Here it looks like the pilot actively tried to push forward & leave the Belorussian airspace, but failed to do so and had to turn towards Minsk (possibly because of the inconspicuous fighter jet that flew alongside it).
Whenever it’s true or not I have no idea, but surely you shouldn’t post your opinion as a response to a comment that asks for a translation of a specific post.
Yes he claims so but the Austrian VC says they did so.The Bolivian president claimed that the aircraft was not searched. Its still a bit murky what happened there.
That was different. State aircraft are not subject to the same requirements and protections as civilian airliners. They have to request permission to fly through sovereign airspace, civilian do not.There is the precedence of forcing the official jet of the then Bolivian President in Austria. After clearing the flight, France, Spain, Italy and Portugal refused the aircraft to fly across their air space. It was forced to land in Austria due to lack of fuel, where the aircraft was searched looking for Snowdon. According to UN, a head of States aircraft enjoy immunity and inviolability. The reason why such lunatics like Lukashenko does these kinds of stuff is that someone in Europe or USA has already done it and got away with it.
You’re contradicting yourself. He normally would be descending in that position but chosen not to? As you said it doesn’t depend on Belarus. What do you mean it wasn’t intercepted? Everyone including Raynair boss himslef already told you that the plane was hijacked.He simply can't do that. Because he is in a controlled airspace. Then if he disobey the ATC, he could lose his license (. At this moment in time he has been only told that there is a bomb on his aircraft). No one so far has said his aircraft was intercepted. So as a pilot there is no reason for him to try and escape anything at that moment in time. Aircraft can't simply descent whenever they want to descend. He is not going to Belarus. So his descending or maintaining his fl in this case doesn't depend on Belarus alone.
Having a fighter jet escort is normal in these circumstances.
Highjacking is done on board the aircraft. If ATC ask you to divert it's not high jacking.You’re contradicting yourself. He normally would be descending in that position but chosen not to? As you said it doesn’t depend on Belarus. What do you mean it wasn’t intercepted? Everyone including Raynair boss himslef already told you that the plane was hijacked.
