The support on this forum for this club is a disgrace

[Raees]

Do find it quite funny how alot of fans who were completely unable to see it from Pogba perspective in the recent tactical discussion and were prepared to shit on him from all angles, are seen as the great supporters in this forum.

Same with the whole LVG vs Jose thing.. Don't get me wrong I too think anyone backing LVG was an idiot and for me Jose is far superior but you can also see why some have legitimate concerns about him - but it seems doing so makes one an outcast whereas if you were writing off Pogba because he dare ask to play a different role you are a true United fan.

No such thing as a perfect fan, we all have our over passionate moments where we act like idiots or we have certain irrational biases. A certain set of supporters seem to think their way of supporting trumps everyone elses and they tend to succeed in wiping people's memories of how unsupportive they were of certain players.

 

[BRRRRAP]

Do find it quite funny how alot of fans who were completely unable to see it from Pogba perspective in the recent tactical discussion and were prepared to shit on him from all angles, are seen as the great supporters in this forum.

Same with the whole LVG vs Jose thing.. Don't get me wrong I too think anyone backing LVG was an idiot and for me Jose is far superior but you can also see why some have legitimate concerns about him - but it seems doing so makes one an outcast whereas if you were writing off Pogba because he dare ask to play a different role you are a true United fan.

No such thing as a perfect fan, we all have our over passionate moments where we act like idiots or we have certain irrational biases. A certain set of supporters seem to think their way of supporting trumps everyone elses and they tend to succeed in wiping people's memories of how unsupportive they were of certain players.

Well observed post. One has to take into account that a lot of posters are young fans for whom Redcafe gives a sense of belonging to a community.

For this reason i. e. the desire to agree with the tribal point of view, genuine football concerns, such as team formations to get the most out of our players, tactics, lack of fluency, lack of passing ability, no pressing and confusion of roles, as well as general conservatism of approach and other issues which are complex get reduced to referendum style splitting into for or against reductions.
Most posters will naturally, side with the opinion they think is the majority as they do not want to be seen as unsupportive of the club and it's leader, in this case the very non 'United style' manager that is Mourinho, the bus parker.

Criticism of Mourinho is particularly frowned upon even if it is objective and constructive.
If Mourinho is likely to throw certain players under the bus then you will have the mob ready to shit on them in order to be seen as being supportive of the club.

It's a tribal thing but it is annoying as it reduces real footballing concerns to idiotic binary splitting, good supporter versus bad supporter.

 

[noodlehair]

It was specifically around the FA Cup Final I think. There was at least some debate around the idea that winning the FA Cup could save his job. Some people wanted us to lose that game to ensure he left.

I do remember some debate about whether finishing outside of the top four would be better in the long run actually, but I don't think that's the same as actually willing it to happen, more I guess just trying to put a somewhat tainted silver lining on if it did happen, but yeah if people were actually saying they wanted us to lose games then fair enough.

Find it difficult to believe that anyone genuinely wanted us to lose a cup final mind, particularly since it was a pretty terribly kept secret by that point that Jose was taking over regardless. Strikes me as the same kind of thing as someone claiming they've "ripped up their season ticket" or "wont be going to the games anymore"

 

[simplyared]

If you think that is bad go check newbie forum. That was fun to read. People there want to sack jose and give eddie howie a chance

Gossiping in the mains! You might get a like for that!

 

[whatwha]

Everyone should know what to expect from the match day thread. It's a place where people post without thinking and emotions run high. Add to that, you have a few joyless, overly negative people who come out of the woodwork in those threads. So what? What are you going to do, ban them?

I don't know why some people have such a problem with moaning, and ironically doing a ton of moaning about the moaners.

Live and let live IMO. The day this forum adopts a "one right way to support the club" hive mind policy like you might see on RAWK or the reddevils subreddit, is the day it truly goes downhill.

 

[desmondisback]

Well observed post. One has to take into account that a lot of posters are young fans for whom Redcafe gives a sense of belonging to a community.

For this reason i. e. the desire to agree with the tribal point of view, genuine football concerns, such as formation, tactics, conservatism of approach and other issues which are complex get reduced to referendum style splitting into for or against reductions.
Most posters will naturally, side with the opinion they think is the majority as they do not want to be seen as unsupportive of the club and it's leader, in this case the very non 'United style' manager that is Mourinho, the bus parker.

Criticism of Mourinho is particularly frowned upon even if it is objective and constructive.
If Mourinho is likely to throw certain players under the bus then you will have the mob ready to shit on them in order to be seen as being supportive of the club.

It's a tribal thing but it is annoying as it reduces real footballing concerns to idiotic binary splitting, good supporter versus bad supporter.

What I find tiresome is the idea that being critical of Jose and his negative tactics is equated with somehow being disloyal to the club. Jose Mourinho is not Manchester United. The club is bigger than him. If I see his tactics going against our proud traditions then I will criticise - in this sense I see myself as being a truly loyal supporter (not disloyal).

The idea that anyone who has a dissenting voice about Jose is disloyal to the club is like something out of 1984. Are we to be subject to the thought police?

 

[desmondisback]

Gossiping in the mains! You might get a like for that!

...and I really don't see the problem with Eddie Howe. No one has ever really made a strong case to me that Howe would somehow be a disaster.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Do find it quite funny how alot of fans who were completely unable to see it from Pogba perspective in the recent tactical discussion and were prepared to shit on him from all angles, are seen as the great supporters in this forum.

Same with the whole LVG vs Jose thing.. Don't get me wrong I too think anyone backing LVG was an idiot and for me Jose is far superior but you can also see why some have legitimate concerns about him - but it seems doing so makes one an outcast whereas if you were writing off Pogba because he dare ask to play a different role you are a true United fan.

No such thing as a perfect fan, we all have our over passionate moments where we act like idiots or we have certain irrational biases. A certain set of supporters seem to think their way of supporting trumps everyone elses and they tend to succeed in wiping people's memories of how unsupportive they were of certain players.

The 'Pogba perspective' was a largely hypothetical bunch of plausible, but unproven, assertions that Pogba's poor form was anyones fault but Pogba's which blamed everyone else at the club for his failures whilst absolving Pogba of a, still hypothetical, downing of tools.

Why that was ever offered as a defence of him I don't know. I similarly don't see how it can be questioned that 'great supporters' probably aren't the ones inventing far more damaging narratives than 'poor player in poor form playing poorly' to explain the situation.

And lets not forget plenty of posters who took the 'Pogba perspective' stated that he should be sold for the 'good of his career'. How is wishing your better players to be sold supporting the club?

 

[el3mel]

The 'Pogba perspective' was a largely hypothetical bunch of plausible, but unproven, assertions that Pogba's poor form was anyones fault but Pogba's which blamed everyone else at the club for his failures whilst absolving Pogba of a, still hypothetical, downing of tools.

Why that was ever offered as a defence of him I don't know and how it should somehow be questioned that 'great supporters' probably aren't the ones inventing far more damaging narratives that 'poor player in poor form playing poorly' to explain the situation I don't know.

And lets not forget plenty of posters who took the 'Pogba perspective' stated that he should be sold for the 'good of his career'. How is wishing your better players to be sold supporting the club?

This is one of the most baffling things for me here. Not just Pogba but Martial as well. You see posters saying "I'll be happy for him to leave and play for another coach to save his career" like for feck ? Who are you supporting exactly the player or the team ? You should be hoping for him to stay no matter what, not leaving for "his career" ffs.

 

[Stubble]

The whole point of a 'forum' is for people to put across views from whatever their viewpoint and discuss/argue these opinions with those who agree AND disagree. Anyone who makes overly outrageous posts (in anyones opinion!) can be called out and asked to justify comments. Once you start arbitrarily banning members/restricting certain viewpoints you don't like you kill the point of the whole thing pretty damn quick. These things can gather speed pretty quickly once a bandwagon starts rolling i've seen it before - if anyone wants a 'United and Mourinho Appreciation Society regardless of performances Forum' or a 'United and Mourinho Denegration Society regardless of performances Forum' i'd advise they set them up elsewhere - i expect they will be pretty damn boring...
I've seen forums where similar witchhunts start and then degenerate into constant ridiculous circular arguments of what is and what isnt an acceptable post and people being banned left, right and centre - i really wouldnt advise going down that route (or to even threaten it) ..

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Most fans forums are the same to be honest.

 

[Raees]

The 'Pogba perspective' was a largely hypothetical bunch of plausible, but unproven, assertions that Pogba's poor form was anyones fault but Pogba's which blamed everyone else at the club for his failures whilst absolving Pogba of a, still hypothetical, downing of tools.

Why that was ever offered as a defence of him I don't know and how it should somehow be questioned that 'great supporters' probably aren't the ones inventing far more damaging narratives than 'poor player in poor form playing poorly' to explain the situation I equally don't know.

And lets not forget plenty of posters who took the 'Pogba perspective' stated that he should be sold for the 'good of his career'. How is wishing your better players to be sold supporting the club?

It wasn't unproven at all. It was stated by many that yes, of course Pogba himself could have easily have put in more effort in the Newcastle game where it was painfully apparent he had downed tools and just did not look happy out there on the pitch.

To argue he downed tools in the Spurs game, to me is a very controversial statement. Lost his head after being frustrated by the way the game was going and his own incompetencies at the heart of our side being given the run around? yes, plausible but saying he was being lazy throughout that game? utter bullshit IMO.

The hypothesis therefore was that even if he tried (which he did in the majority of the Spurs game and countless big games before that for club and country) he was never going to be a great central midfielder because he lacks the basics to play there. When a great midfielder like Paul Scholes said the same thing, many so-called United fans called him a twat and uneducated, should stick to being the quiet man and not a pundit.. yet when Gary Neville uttered an opinion about United playing in a 4-3-3 (which apparently he said in the first few minutes and thus could hardly have reflected what actually transpired), and Jose came up with the fact with we were playing 4-3-3 (after alot of heated debate over how he was using Pogba).. despite statistical evidence to the contrary (which demonstrated there was barely any difference to how we lined up against Spurs), suddenly we were told - how dare one question the opinion of ex-professional footballers as they are always right and to be believed without question. Anyone dare questioning these figures, couldn't really be a United fan could they yet it was okay to slag off Paul Scholes.

Bottom line is, alot of fans didn't want to give Pogba the benefit of the doubt. They gave him a tonne of abuse tbh in this recent downturn.. some of it was to some extent warranted because he did down tools, but at the same time.. it was clear he was frustrated - he's human, it happens. I can understand why they were ready to jump on his back, I do it too with other players but what isn't right is this 'holier than thou' attitude that seems to pervade the forum as a whole that certain supporters are true fans and support in the right way.. despite them not being 100% behind certain managers in the past, and happy to throw certain players off the cliff.. just because the manager has made a statement or dropped a player, despite the fact.. we have clearly just seen them have a good game.

Abit of independent judgment wouldn't go amiss, rather than just following trends or people like sheep.

 

[Snowjoe]

For about the millionth time. Negative posts and opinions aren’t the problem, it’s the quality of a lot of these posts being total shite. We are never going to stop different opinions.

 

[LoneStar]

Just curious, how do people watch the match and comment on this forum at the same time? I get doing it at half time, I do it then too. I find using my phone in the middle while watching the match is pretty distracting.

 

[esmufc07]

For about the millionth time. Negative posts and opinions aren’t the problem, it’s the quality of a lot of these posts being total shite. We are never going to stop different opinions.

BREXIT MEANS BREXIT

 

[KirkDuyt]

Just curious, how do people watch the match and comment on this forum at the same time? I get doing it at half time, I do it then too. I find using my phone in the middle while watching the match is pretty distracting.

I use a simple flowchart for my contribution to a matchday thread:

United scores -> feck yes, get in [insert player name]
opponent scores -> feck off [insert player name], you Gollum faced inbred cnut
Possession statistic with United over 50% -> lol back to the LVG days
Possession statistic with United under 50% -> Feck off Mou, you bus parking twat
Game won -> obvious false dawn, we're still shite
Game lost -> Sack Pogba, sell Mou, demolish the board, declare bankruptcy

On a slightly more serious note, yes the matchday threads are a complete wreck, but to be fair that's the case pretty much everywhere. Emotion clouds reason and good judgement and emotions run highest during a game of football. I sometimes look back on things I shout during a match and am perplexed. So is my wife.

 

[Stubble]

'For about the millionth time. Negative posts and opinions aren’t the problem, it’s the quality of a lot of these posts being total shite. We are never going to stop different opinions'.

But who decides whether an post is shite or not ? What is a shite post for one person is not for another if they agree with it. Depends where you stand on a subject . If the Mods started to police this based on your own viewpoints (which is your right i suppose) you will be dragged into constant bickering from 'ban' and 'don't ban' exponents. The best solution would be to only have a post match thread if you want to avoid any knee jerk/heat of the moment comments being posted..

 

[KirkDuyt]

'For about the millionth time. Negative posts and opinions aren’t the problem, it’s the quality of a lot of these posts being total shite. We are never going to stop different opinions'.

But who decides whether an post is shite or not ? What is a shite post for one person is not for another if they agree with it. Depends where you stand on a subject . If the Mods started to police this based on your own viewpoints (which is your right i suppose) you will be dragged into constant bickering from 'ban' and 'don't ban' exponents. The best solution would be to only have a post match thread if you want to avoid any knee jerk/heat of the moment comments being posted..

The view behind the post is irrelevant is what he is saying. A well constructed and eloquently put critique of United's style of play or the clubs direction as a whole will be accepted.

Something along the lines of lol turd sandwich shite football get in pep will not be.

 

[Varun]

'For about the millionth time. Negative posts and opinions aren’t the problem, it’s the quality of a lot of these posts being total shite. We are never going to stop different opinions'.

But who decides whether an post is shite or not ? What is a shite post for one person is not for another if they agree with it. Depends where you stand on a subject . If the Mods started to police this based on your own viewpoints (which is your right i suppose) you will be dragged into constant bickering from 'ban' and 'don't ban' exponents. The best solution would be to only have a post match thread if you want to avoid any knee jerk/heat of the moment comments being posted..

Exhibit 1: Lukaku could have done better there, needed to look up as martial was free.

Exhibit 2: Lukaku is a fecking donkey.

 

[el3mel]

I use a simple flowchart for my contribution to a matchday thread:

United scores -> feck yes, get in [insert player name]
opponent scores -> feck off [insert player name], you Gollum faced inbred cnut
Possession statistic with United over 50% -> lol back to the LVG days
Possession statistic with United under 50% -> Feck off Mou, you bus parking twat
Game won -> obvious false dawn, we're still shite
Game lost -> Sack Pogba, sell Mou, demolish the board, declare bankruptcy

On a slightly more serious note, yes the matchday threads are a complete wreck, but to be fair that's the case pretty much everywhere. Emotion clouds reason and good judgement and emotions run highest during a game of football. I sometimes look back on things I shout during a match and am perplexed. So is my wife.

So true.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Football supporters are wicked and a bunch of hypocrites in different situations. No one is holier than thou.

 

[Stubble]

'The view behind the post is irrelevant is what he is saying. A well constructed and eloquently put critique of United's style of play or the clubs direction as a whole will be accepted.
Something along the lines of lol turd sandwich shite football get in pep will not be'.

Yes i agree with all of that - basic abuse of players and crass insults generally are not necessary and add nothing to the debate.
However there are a number of posters on this thread also calling for a restriction on certain negative viewpoints they do not like that is the thing i have an issue with and is a separate argument..

 

[Raees]

For about the millionth time. Negative posts and opinions aren’t the problem, it’s the quality of a lot of these posts being total shite. We are never going to stop different opinions.

Very true, but when I was being quoted endless times during the Pogba debate, by posters uttering sheer nonsense and ridiculing use of statistics because it didn't suit their agenda.. no one was called out on it, because senior posters were backing them up, despite the quality of their posts also being very questionable.

Seems to me that if you agree with a certain trend which is favourable to certain sects of posters, that = quality, despite objectively speaking you're pretty much wrong or lack the evidence to back up your claims. If you dare go against the grain, you will automatically risk your post being called shite..

The quality of posts of people who say United are shit, is just the same as people who were saying Pogba is shit and how dare he expect to play in a 433. For me both have the potential to be stupid opinions if there is no thought put behind the opinion and lacks the evidence to support the conclusion.

There seems to be a difference in standard expected from what is a critique type post to what is a more support at all costs post, despite their being equal chance of both types of post being great or being shit. End of the day you need to look at whether the post in question is making a constructive argument or if they're just being negative for the sake of it or just being overly defensive of the club (manager, player etc) for the sake of it. Some will say being a supporter means that the second type of post should always be seen as the better post.. that is not always true.

Look at that TY guy from Arsenal, can we seriously be of the opinion that supporting like that is healthy for him, or the club? Likewise if there was an anti Ty who can barely muster up any support for his club just because certain players he didn't like scored or can even cheer because United win - that is even worse. Both extremes are toxic and we should all aim to be more balanced though it is of course very difficult to do.

 

[Snowjoe]

Very true, but when I was being quoted endless times during the Pogba debate, by posters uttering sheer nonsense and ridiculing use of statistics because it didn't suit their agenda.. no one was called out on it, because senior posters were backing them up, despite the quality of their posts also being very questionable.

Seems to me that if you agree with a certain trend which is favourable to certain sects of posters, that = quality, despite objectively speaking you're pretty much wrong or lack the evidence to back up your claims. If you dare go against the grain, you will automatically risk your post being called shite..

The quality of posts of people who say United are shit, is just the same as people who were saying Pogba is shit and how dare he expect to play in a 433. For me both have the potential to be stupid opinions if there is no thought put behind the opinion and lacks the evidence to support the conclusion.

There seems to be a difference in standard expected from what is a critique type post to what is a more support at all costs post, despite their being equal chance of both types of post being great or being shit. End of the day you need to look at whether the post in question is making a constructive argument or if they're just being negative for the sake of it or just being overly defensive of the club (manager, player etc) for the sake of it. Some will say being a supporter means that the second type of post should always be seen as the better post.. that is not always true.

Look at that TY guy from Arsenal, can we seriously be of the opinion that supporting like that is healthy for him, or the club? Likewise if there was an anti Ty who can barely muster up any support for his club just because certain players he didn't like scored or can even cheer because United win - that is even worse. Both extremes are toxic and we should all aim to be more balanced though it is of course very difficult to do.

Parklife

 

[NinjaFletch]

I find the reasoning in this whole post very odd.

It wasn't unproven at all. It was stated by many that yes, of course Pogba himself could have easily have put in more effort in the Newcastle game where it was painfully apparent he had downed tools and just did not look happy out there on the pitch.

The entire basis of the Pogba 'perspective' is that his poor form can be explained by a string of scenarios that are absolutely unknowable from our vantage point. That he was pissed off with the manger for playing him in the wrong position, that he was pissed off with the club for making Sanchez our highest earner, or that he was pissed off with the manger because he thought when he signed that the team would be built around him (and many more reasons).

The very premise is based upon a completely unproven notion that he was not performing out of some sort of odd principle rather than he simply wasn't playing well.

To argue he downed tools in the Spurs game, to me is a very controversial statement. Lost his head after being frustrated by the way the game was going and his own incompetencies at the heart of our side being given the run around? yes, plausible but saying he was being lazy throughout that game? utter bullshit IMO.

I didn't. I argued that people who were trying to defend Pogba's recent form have come up with the baffling defence that he is not playing well out of choice and are 'defending him' with the far more serious charge that he has downed tools.

The hypothesis therefore was that even if he tried (which he did in the majority of the Spurs game and countless big games before that for club and country) he was never going to be a great central midfielder because he lacks the basics to play there. When a great midfielder like Paul Scholes said the same thing, many so-called United fans called him a twat and uneducated, should stick to being the quiet man and not a pundit.. yet when Gary Neville uttered an opinion about United playing in a 4-3-3 (which apparently he said in the first few minutes and thus could hardly have reflected what actually transpired), and Jose came up with the fact with we were playing 4-3-3 (after alot of heated debate over how he was using Pogba).. despite statistical evidence to the contrary (which demonstrated there was barely any difference to how we lined up against Spurs), suddenly we were told - how dare one question the opinion of ex-professional footballers as they are always right and to be believed without question. Anyone dare questioning these figures, couldn't really be a United fan could they yet it was okay to slag off Paul Scholes.

Whose hypothesis? The only people I've seen throw '4-3-3' around as a magical solution are Pogba's 'defenders' who again seem to think he's incapable of being asked to do basic requirements of a midfielders job. What I think you mean in the next bit of the sentence is that it wasn't the 4-3-3 that you meant, it seems another example of creating a conspiracy theory to argue away something simple to argue that the formation we played against Newcastle and Spurs wasn't a 4-3-3.

Incidentally I'd argue we played a double pivot with Matic and McTominay and with Pogba further forward (albeit in an inside left posistion) which you could certainly argue is a type of 4-2-3-1. Almost like the formation itself is a bit arbitrary and its more about the roles players are asked to carry out on the pitch that might matter more.

Bottom line is, alot of fans didn't want to give Pogba the benefit of the doubt. They gave him a tonne of abuse tbh in this recent downturn.. some of it was to some extent warranted because he did down tools, but at the same time.. it was clear he was frustrated - he's human, it happens.

Plenty of fans wanted to give Pogba the benefit of the doubt. They said he was in bad form, or they said he was ill. That's giving Pogba the benefit of the doubt. Inventing a narrative that Pogba has downed tools because of some unknowable grievance with the club is not 'giving him the benefit of the doubt' it's throwing him under the bus.

I can understand why they were ready to jump on his back, I do it too with other players but what isn't right is this 'holier than thou' attitude that seems to pervade the forum as a whole that certain supporters are true fans and support in the right way.. despite them not being 100% behind certain managers in the past, and happy to throw certain players off the cliff.. just because the manager has made a statement or dropped a player, despite the fact.. we have clearly just seen them have a good game.

Abit of independent judgment wouldn't go amiss, rather than just following trends or people like sheep.

Pogba 'being thrown off the cliff' is exactly the fault of his defenders here though. Anyone who tried to excuse his poor form as 'poor form' was met with a string of conspiracy theories about whose fault Pobga's form actually was and none of them did Pogba any favours. For my money it is better to go through a rough patch than have a temper tantrum and refuse to do your job. If he did indeed do the latter, which you're still offering up in defence of him, he deserves every ounce of criticism he gets.

 

[cyberman]

The 'Pogba perspective' was a largely hypothetical bunch of plausible, but unproven, assertions that Pogba's poor form was anyones fault but Pogba's which blamed everyone else at the club for his failures whilst absolving Pogba of a, still hypothetical, downing of tools.

Why that was ever offered as a defence of him I don't know. I similarly don't see how it can be questioned that 'great supporters' probably aren't the ones inventing far more damaging narratives than 'poor player in poor form playing poorly' to explain the situation.

And lets not forget plenty of posters who took the 'Pogba perspective' stated that he should be sold for the 'good of his career'. How is wishing your better players to be sold supporting the club?

My favourite was the posters criticising Woodward for not going out to activley sell DDG during the fax gate summer or blaming him for David still being here on deadline day since we "Had to move on"
Martial gets a bit of that. I wouldn't blame him if he left etc.
It's all very strange

 

[LoneStar]

I use a simple flowchart for my contribution to a matchday thread:

United scores -> feck yes, get in [insert player name]
opponent scores -> feck off [insert player name], you Gollum faced inbred cnut
Possession statistic with United over 50% -> lol back to the LVG days
Possession statistic with United under 50% -> Feck off Mou, you bus parking twat
Game won -> obvious false dawn, we're still shite
Game lost -> Sack Pogba, sell Mou, demolish the board, declare bankruptcy

On a slightly more serious note, yes the matchday threads are a complete wreck, but to be fair that's the case pretty much everywhere. Emotion clouds reason and good judgement and emotions run highest during a game of football. I sometimes look back on things I shout during a match and am perplexed. So is my wife.

Haha, nice flowchart, that!

Yeah, you tend to feel strongly during the matches, I usually post whenever a player scores or during halftime. Best to ignore the thread I suppose.

 

[borrays]

Gossiping in the mains! You might get a like for that!

No i got the better deal. I got him banned.

 

[Rista]

I use a simple flowchart for my contribution to a matchday thread:

United scores -> feck yes, get in [insert player name]
opponent scores -> feck off [insert player name], you Gollum faced inbred cnut
Possession statistic with United over 50% -> lol back to the LVG days
Possession statistic with United under 50% -> Feck off Mou, you bus parking twat
Game won -> obvious false dawn, we're still shite
Game lost -> Sack Pogba, sell Mou, demolish the board, declare bankruptcy

Lukaku scores -> He scored, still utter fecking wank player though.

 

[blue blue]

Given that the threads point is to highlight how bad the support for the club is I think most of you are showing tremendous passion.

As for Pogba. Perhaps the strength of passion stirred up is because the price tag was wrong. Matic and Sanchez are equally open to criticism surely but have a more reasonable price tag.

 

[walkinhop]

Didn't realize only Literary geniuses were allowed to post on the caf. Football fans are the most eloquent don't we know it. Prawn sandwich eaters the lot of us.

 

[jojojo]

Yeah, there are two teams on the pitch, so what? Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, PSG, City, Liverpool etc. teams don't play against other teams or do they play on an empty pitch?

I became attracted to United in 1997, despite United not even winning the league, because of what I saw from them at the time. Granted, I'm not English and didn't grow up watching United on the pitch live. But the books I have read about Sir Matt Busby and his philosophies and what I have seen on the TV under Sir Alex galvanized my fandom towards United.

Didn't United play against an opposition under those managers?

Look, I'm not asking United to win every match or be the champions every season. What I'm asking is to hold on to ethos of Sir Matt (yes, I didn't enjoy the fact that Sir Alex moved a bit away from that since Ronaldo left). We should play proactive football, not reactive, even if we risk losing. This season we are not winning the league anyway, so why not take some risk and play some adventurous football? What's there to lose?

Do you realise how deeply hilarious that is? You got attracted to us in 97, just after we'd won four out of the past 5 League titles and just before we won three in a row. It makes the rest of your morality tale about ethos sound pretty hollow.

It's easy supporting a winning team that makes winning look easy. When they can't do that, if you want to carry on supporting them - or more accurately for most of us, have to carry on supporting them - then you really do have to take your pleasure where you find it (like when you beat the League champions).

 

[Snowjoe]

Do you realise how deeply hilarious that is? You got attracted to us in 97, just after we'd won four out of the past 5 League titles and just before we won three in a row. It makes the rest of your morality tale about ethos sound pretty hollow.

It's easy supporting a winning team that makes winning look easy. When they can't do that, if you want to carry on supporting them - or more accurately for most of us, have to carry on supporting them - then you really do have to take your pleasure where you find it (like when you beat the League champions).

Oh that well known season where we were awful losing the league by a whole 1 point

 

[Ali Dia]

Exhibit 1: Lukaku could have done better there, needed to look up as martial was free.

Exhibit 2: Lukaku is a fecking donkey.

Lukaku has been very frustrating for parts of this season. Performances like yesterday show there’s certainly some light at the end of the tunnel, he’s also currently a better player than anyone else we could have signed in the position last summer. I think next season he’s going to do more damage in the big games as the team hopefully makes a few more additions and gels. That’s the calm no match happening opinion.

During the match you can hear the groans in the stadium when he tries something and it doesn’t come off and our attacks break down. Those people have often spent a lot of money to get there to be entertained. We’ve had a tough few years and it stands to reason the longer it goes on the fans will get more frustrated with what is in front of them. Calling lukaku a donkey in the match thread is standard if we aren’t playing well. He cost a fortune because he’s supposed to be great at football. As long as he eventually makes those supposedly fickle fans eat their words then who cares. The “I had his back the whole time crew can then gloat away!” As things stand there just hasn’t been very much to gloat about up to now. That’s all. He’s not some youngster, he’s an 80-90 million pound footballer and he certainly doesn’t care what joe bloggs thinks of him. It doesn’t mean you aren’t a good supporter if you don’t appreciate certain players styles or efforts or slow, dull and predictable football or you think the club keeps making mistakes with recruitment. It’s just an opinion and everyone is entitled to one. It’s up to them to provide a winning team for us so they can keep themselves nice and rich. The romance is long gone.

 

[shaky]

Well observed post. One has to take into account that a lot of posters are young fans for whom Redcafe gives a sense of belonging to a community.

For this reason i. e. the desire to agree with the tribal point of view, genuine football concerns, such as team formations to get the most out of our players, tactics, lack of fluency, lack of passing ability, no pressing and confusion of roles, as well as general conservatism of approach and other issues which are complex get reduced to referendum style splitting into for or against reductions.
Most posters will naturally, side with the opinion they think is the majority as they do not want to be seen as unsupportive of the club and it's leader, in this case the very non 'United style' manager that is Mourinho, the bus parker.

Criticism of Mourinho is particularly frowned upon even if it is objective and constructive.
If Mourinho is likely to throw certain players under the bus then you will have the mob ready to shit on them in order to be seen as being supportive of the club.

It's a tribal thing but it is annoying as it reduces real footballing concerns to idiotic binary splitting, good supporter versus bad supporter.

If anything, the younger people are going to be more vociferous with their opinions, having grown up with a culture of typing everything they think into social media and also having never seen Utd go through testing spell before recently.
I did get a chuckle about you citing "objective and constructive" criticism though, directly after your forum-typical childish quip "Mourinho, the bus parker."

 

[jojojo]

I do get that fans are reactive, knee-jerk, emotional - if people weren't emotionally invested in football they wouldn't lay out the time and money to show up at a match, or even to watch it on TV. No surprise then that people react to incidents in a game, or even to a teamsheet, or a tactical setup.

In real life there are repercussions for moaning continually or screaming hysterically. In a pub or a house somebody moans back, or tells you to shut the feck up, or moves to sit at the other end of the room, or sticks their headphones on. In Café life we don't really allow the equivalent of telling someone to shut the feck up, or threatening to make you shut up.

But for the modmins looking in, we have to try and spot the equivalent of other posters moving seats to avoid someone, leaving the bar or sticking their headphones on. Sometimes it's instantly obvious and we kick the problem out of the thread.

Other times, it's only obvious because of the bad effect it has on subsequent posts - and we struggle to find the original shit posts that triggered the mess. The desire to condemn our own players, coaches, managers, board, fans becomes like some race to the bottom in terms of hysteria, insults and hyperbole - shouting loudest to demonstrate that somehow they care the most. Which is why we just have to ask people not to indulge in it. We've reached the point where (if we see it happening) we'll have to hit the warning button as soon it starts, not wait for people to calm down or explain themselves. ​

 

[BRRRRAP]

If anything, the younger people are going to be more vociferous with their opinions, having grown up with a culture of typing everything they think into social media and also having never seen Utd go through testing spell before recently.
I did get a chuckle about you citing "objective and constructive" criticism though, directly after your forum-typical childish quip "Mourinho, the bus parker."

Whoosh !
Social media subjectivity tends toward a heightening of aggressivity in communication. The heightening of aggressivity tends toward a splitting of reality into good or bad objects. In relation to group identity e.g.on fan forums the aggressivity takes on a moral majority expression. The majority tend towards excluding 'the bad object ' or in lay person's terms, shutting up the voices of dissent.

As Stubble has pointed out in an astute post;
'However there are a number of posters on this thread also calling for a restriction on certain negative viewpoints they do not like that is the thing i have an issue with..'


'Parking the bus' is hardly forum-typical nor is it a childish quip. The term itself was coined by our very own linguistically astute manager.
It is an entirely suitable and highly elucidatory metaphor for an outmoded and overly defensive style of football unfortunately favoured by our manager.

Not only do some of our more senior supporters dislike the anachronistic conservatism of Mourinho's 'park the bus' predilection but it is also particularly disliked by traditional United supporters as it runs entirely anathema to what was once our easily identifiable, attacking playing style.
Ya get me Bro !

You're welcome

 

[Garethw]

I do get that fans are reactive, knee-jerk, emotional - if people weren't emotionally invested in football they wouldn't lay out the time and money to show up at a match, or even to watch it on TV. No surprise then that people react to incidents in a game, or even to a teamsheet, or a tactical setup.

In real life there are repercussions for moaning continually or screaming hysterically. In a pub or a house somebody moans back, or tells you to shut the feck up, or moves to sit at the other end of the room, or sticks their headphones on. In Café life we don't really allow the equivalent of telling someone to shut the feck up, or threatening to make you shut up.

But for the modmins looking in, we have to try and spot the equivalent of other posters moving seats to avoid someone, leaving the bar or sticking their headphones on. Sometimes it's instantly obvious and we kick the problem out of the thread.

Other times, it's only obvious because of the bad effect it has on subsequent posts - and we struggle to find the original shit posts that triggered the mess. The desire to condemn our own players, coaches, managers, board, fans becomes like some race to the bottom in terms of hysteria, insults and hyperbole - shouting loudest to demonstrate that somehow they care the most. Which is why we just have to ask people not to indulge in it. We've reached the point where (if we see it happening) we'll have to hit the warning button as soon it starts, not wait for people to calm down or explain themselves. ​

So anyone having a good whinge in the match day thread about how shite the team or an individual is performing runs the risk of getting thread banned or worse now then?

Sounds like a great way of turning a thriving match day thread forum into a ghost town like other forums have.

I could understand all this if posters were just being negative for the sake of it (“fecks sake, can’t believe we only won four nil when it should have been six!”). But most of the negativity is a direct result of the shit on a stick football the manager has had us playing for most of the season.

It’s reactionary responses to given situations.

 

[R'hllor]

I may be wrong but I don't remember people under LVG hoping we would lose just to speed up his sacking. I mean I absolutely hated everything about him and I never did this. What did happen under him is we'd draw or even win games in a way that was so frustratingly shite, the mood wouldn't be much better than if we'd lost anyway...and on a weekly basis, after games thinking I remember thinking "surely that performance has to be the last straw"

Oh it happened alright, like i said in previous post at that time (dunno is he still part of it, stopped listening that podcast long time ago) main member of United Hour podcast was very vocal on forum and maybe even on podcast about wishing us to lose games due LvG, after which he defended it with "greater good" bullshit.

Here is discussion about it when they were looking for more members https://www.redcafe.net/threads/united-hour-recruiting-new-members.430967/page-2

Quote by Rood(scout):

It was probably @Alock1

But seriously I dont remember anyone saying that on the pod but, even if they did, so what?

We have all different opinions represented on the show and debate them, thats the whole point! I most certainly would have argued strongly against anyone saying something like that so I have no idea what your issue is

"...even if they did,so what?" Its all good bois. Great stuff.

 

[desmondisback]

Oh it happened alright, like i said in previous post at that time (dunno is he still part of it, stopped listening that podcast long time ago) main member of United Hour podcast was very vocal on forum and maybe even on podcast about wishing us to lose games due LvG, after which he defended it with "greater good" bullshit.

Here is discussion about it when they were looking for more members https://www.redcafe.net/threads/united-hour-recruiting-new-members.430967/page-2

Quote by Rood(scout):


"...even if they did,so what?" Its all good bois. Great stuff.

I think wishing we lose games is a bit too far but I have found myself caught a few times between a) the desire to see my team win a game and b) the desire to see my team progress in the long term. It's not a nice feeling at all.

I want Jose to be successful here . I want him to prove me wrong. I just don't see it happening and I'm not sure this Mourinho adventure will end well. I do want a different manager here. That would mean that if he was under pressure to be sacked and the game we were playing wasn't a massive deal then I will feel torn , simply because I'm thinking about the future. I don't think it's BS to feel these things , I just think it's honest.

I try sometimes to get behind Mourinho's ideas but when I do I find my optimism being crushed by the awful football that gets dished up. It's quite frustrating. A lot depends on how you see this thing called "loyalty" and whether it's a short term thing that only lasts 90 minutes or whether it's over a longer period.