The support on this forum for this club is a disgrace

[Garethw]

My favourite was the posters criticising Woodward for not going out to activley sell DDG during the fax gate summer or blaming him for David still being here on deadline day since we "Had to move on"
Martial gets a bit of that. I wouldn't blame him if he left etc.
It's all very strange

The Martial posts earlier in the season became ridiculous when he wasn’t starting. Comments like “he should leave for his own good” and “he’s too good to be treated like this and needs to go” were common place.

I don’t think I could ever imagine a scenario where I’d become so emotionally attached to a player that I’d put his career before the good of the team.

 

[Garethw]

I think wishing we lose games is a bit too far but I have found myself caught a few times between a) the desire to see my team win a game and b) the desire to see my team progress in the long term. It's not a nice feeling at all.

I want Jose to be successful here . I want him to prove me wrong. I just don't see it happening and I'm not sure this Mourinho adventure will end well. I do want a different manager here. That would mean that if he was under pressure to be sacked and the game we were playing wasn't a massive deal then I will feel torn , simply because I'm thinking about the future. I don't think it's BS to feel these things , I just think it's honest.

I try sometimes to get behind Mourinho's ideas but when I do I find my optimism being crushed by the awful football that gets dished up. It's quite frustrating. A lot depends on how you see this thing called "loyalty" and whether it's a short term thing that only lasts 90 minutes or whether it's over a longer period.

A classic case of short term pain for long term gain. Nothing wrong with feeling like that mate. A supporter can only be pushed so far before they’ve had enough.

 

[0161_UNITED]

I think it’s entirely normal for someone invested in a game to come out with stuff like “What the feck is McTominay doing there? Why did he stop tracking Willian? That’s shocking defending”

What makes the match-day thread so “special” is that the exact same incident would prompt variants of “McTominay is a really shit footballer” “He wouldn’t get in a Championship team” “Players like him are the reason we’ve so shit now” “I actually hate him” etc etc

People manage to use instantaneous outrage on a single incident to make sweeping judgements about the bigger picture. Which is the sort of shit I’m constantly correcting my 8 year old son over. But - in his defence- he is 8.

Spot on, put it perfectly and succinctly!

 

[Cheesy]

People tend to have selective memories when remembering what it used to be like. Even during the Fergie era there were plenty of poor results which sent people into hysterics. There was a massive feeling of crisis in 2011/12 when Basel put us out of the CL. And throughout 2012/13 plenty of people were criticising our performances in spite of the fact we were often scoring for fun and were essentially a couple of poor results at the end of the season away from matching or beating Chelsea's record points tally.

Obviously some of the criticism has been overstated. I feel like anyone saying Mourinho needs to be sacked is overreacting massively...but at the same time I do think there are a lot of genuine complaints that can be made about his tenure here, and people voicing those complaints aren't necessarily haters.

I think the problem just tends to be that the player performance threads almost always reflect the result that's just transpired. If we win our next game and Pogba puts in a MoTM performance, he'll have demonstrated he's one of the best players in the league and that anyone doubting him is short-sighted and not showing enough support. If we lose and he's shite, people will be saying he's disinterested, can't be arsed, was a poor signing, and that he wants to leave. That's probably just a product of emotions running high after a match, though, and it's sort of unavoidable.

Such comments are made in abundance in football grounds - before he scored and his performance improved tenfold, I suspect plenty of disparaging comments would've been made inside the ground about Lukaku from frustrated and angry fans who'd paid money to witness what - until the goal - had been a really shite performance. No one would doubt that they're real fans though, in spite of their criticism.

 

[Sandikan]

The matchday threads are pretty dreadful if you've ever gone into them for some reason when a game is on.

But the worst thing is the 5 or 6 threads popping up if we haven't won, going ludicrously overboard

 

[Ban]

Oh absolutely. It's full of those bitter little people who have to tell others "I told you so" and "you're supporting us wrong" all the time. It's unpleasant.

It's full of both types of people.. I got that from randomly reading the thread.

 

[togg]

I find the whole match day thread amusing now, best way to take it. Players go from 'dogshites' to 'God's' over a few pages. Lingard often gets the 'see lingard has turned to shite again' to 'yessssss messigard - love you jesse'. Then....when he messes up a pass a bit later it's 'what the feck are you doing Lingard'. Just funny.....

 

[nah_it_wont_happen]

Do you realise how deeply hilarious that is? You got attracted to us in 97, just after we'd won four out of the past 5 League titles and just before we won three in a row. It makes the rest of your morality tale about ethos sound pretty hollow.

It's easy supporting a winning team that makes winning look easy. When they can't do that, if you want to carry on supporting them - or more accurately for most of us, have to carry on supporting them - then you really do have to take your pleasure where you find it (like when you beat the League champions).

For a 9 year old me, anything less than winning was unacceptable, so falling in love with United despite not winning anything that season was a big deal at the time. Btw, I barely used to know the sport back then, I didn't even know how many leagues United have won back then, it was the red and white SHARP jersey and Beckham's crossing and Scholes' volley, which I happened to have seen on TV thousands of miles away from OT, are what made me a United fan. In fact, I didn't even know how United were doing during that season, I just liked watching them just like some dumb kid, only later I realized Arsenal won and thought, "damn, my favorite team didn't win".

However, since then I have been through the barren years of 2003-06 and atrocious times of last 5 years, so there's no point in you riding the high horse and trying to prove that I am not a valid supporter of United.

Having said all that, where have I actually demanded that United have to win the league every season?

All I am asking is United to keep up what actually made them special. Even during 1967-1992 United had a style which was distinct from any other English club. No other club could do to Barcelona (a team that possessed Maradona and Schuster) what United did in 1984 under Ron Atkinson. The fast, brave, courageous on the ball, swashbuckling attacking style, backed up youthful prodigious talents, is what United is all about.

Since 2009, I have seen the decline of all of this. All I'm asking is that we must get back to the pre-2009 style. Until we go back to that style, I won't find any joy. That doesn't mean I'm less of a supporter than you are. If being unhappy with what Jose is doing and writing about it is unacceptable in this forum, then you better name this forum "Jose-cafe".

Honestly, I find it unacceptable that a manager like Jose Mourinho is the manager of this club, whereas far more attacking, younger and recently way more successful managers like Massimiliano Allegri, Lenardo Jardim, Pep Guardiola were available. Those managers are million times more aligned to United style than Mourinho ever have been. For me, he is even worse than LVG, because LVG at least used to win the biggest matches, which at least brought some joy amid the drab, boring, trophy-less football. Jose offers absolutely no joy.

Going back to the support topic, Jose keeps complaining about the fans being quiet. Well, he first has to offer them something to be cheerful about. Go and watch the match vs Chelsea, you will see, Old Trafford suddenly woke up when Martial had the ball from the left at about 25 minutes, when he made that pass from which Sanchez shot tamely straight to the keeper. Jose needs to teach his team to be able to create those moments to awake the fans. His team plays those slow sleeping football and he expects the fans to be awake, that's him being unrealistic, nothing else.

 

[Lentwood]

I think criticism of players is fine. I think criticism of Jose’s decisions and tactics is also fine

What I don’t like is the fans who call for the manager to go. I think as fans we can have a really positive impact but we can also have a really negative one. You only have to look at other clubs where good managers have been forced out by fickle fans, only to see that the grass is rarely greener and changing managers regularly isn’t a foundation for long-term success

To a certain extent, as long as we are able to attract players and their is a long-term plan in place, I never want to see a manager go. It should be a last resort only.

Moyes had to go because his head totally went and he clearly couldn’t cope. I never called for LvGs head and I think it would take us being in the bottom half for me to want JM gone

 

[redIndianDevil]

I think criticism of players is fine. I think criticism of Jose’s decisions and tactics is also fine

What I don’t like is the fans who call for the manager to go. I think as fans we can have a really positive impact but we can also have a really negative one. You only have to look at other clubs where good managers have been forced out by fickle fans, only to see that the grass is rarely greener and changing managers regularly isn’t a foundation for long-term success

To a certain extent, as long as we are able to attract players and their is a long-term plan in place, I never want to see a manager go. It should be a last resort only.

Moyes had to go because his head totally went and he clearly couldn’t cope. I never called for LvGs head and I think it would take us being in the bottom half for me to want JM gone

Care to name a few clubs who have changed a good manager because the fans wanted them to?

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Well observed post. One has to take into account that a lot of posters are young fans for whom Redcafe gives a sense of belonging to a community.

For this reason i. e. the desire to agree with the tribal point of view, genuine football concerns, such as team formations to get the most out of our players, tactics, lack of fluency, lack of passing ability, no pressing and confusion of roles, as well as general conservatism of approach and other issues which are complex get reduced to referendum style splitting into for or against reductions.
Most posters will naturally, side with the opinion they think is the majority as they do not want to be seen as unsupportive of the club and it's leader, in this case the very non 'United style' manager that is Mourinho, the bus parker.

Criticism of Mourinho is particularly frowned upon even if it is objective and constructive.
If Mourinho is likely to throw certain players under the bus then you will have the mob ready to shit on them in order to be seen as being supportive of the club.

It's a tribal thing but it is annoying as it reduces real footballing concerns to idiotic binary splitting, good supporter versus bad supporter.

I certainly agree with the binary splitting point on here.

I’m generally supportive of Mourinho but also have some reservations about his style of play and potential man management issues. However, given the size of the repair job he took on here at United (IMO) I tend to support giving him more time before fully assessing or being overly critical.

Making that point in the Jose Mourinho thread had a good number of posters making out I was in a group of Jose fan boys for daring to defend him.

Maybe this is indicative of the state of society as much as our fan base, but it’s bloody difficult to have a nuanced discussion at times.

 

[Sky1981]

For a 9 year old me, anything less than winning was unacceptable, so falling in love with United despite not winning anything that season was a big deal at the time. Btw, I barely used to know the sport back then, I didn't even know how many leagues United have won back then, it was the red and white SHARP jersey and Beckham's crossing and Scholes' volley, which I happened to have seen on TV thousands of miles away from OT, are what made me a United fan. In fact, I didn't even know how United were doing during that season, I just liked watching them just like some dumb kid, only later I realized Arsenal won and thought, "damn, my favorite team didn't win".

However, since then I have been through the barren years of 2003-06 and atrocious times of last 5 years, so there's no point in you riding the high horse and trying to prove that I am not a valid supporter of United.

Having said all that, where have I actually demanded that United have to win the league every season?

All I am asking is United to keep up what actually made them special. Even during 1967-1992 United had a style which was distinct from any other English club. No other club could do to Barcelona (a team that possessed Maradona and Schuster) what United did in 1984 under Ron Atkinson. The fast, brave, courageous on the ball, swashbuckling attacking style, backed up youthful prodigious talents, is what United is all about.

Since 2009, I have seen the decline of all of this. All I'm asking is that we must get back to the pre-2009 style. Until we go back to that style, I won't find any joy. That doesn't mean I'm less of a supporter than you are. If being unhappy with what Jose is doing and writing about it is unacceptable in this forum, then you better name this forum "Jose-cafe".

Honestly, I find it unacceptable that a manager like Jose Mourinho is the manager of this club, whereas far more attacking, younger and recently way more successful managers like Massimiliano Allegri, Lenardo Jardim, Pep Guardiola were available. Those managers are million times more aligned to United style than Mourinho ever have been. For me, he is even worse than LVG, because LVG at least used to win the biggest matches, which at least brought some joy amid the drab, boring, trophy-less football. Jose offers absolutely no joy.

Going back to the support topic, Jose keeps complaining about the fans being quiet. Well, he first has to offer them something to be cheerful about. Go and watch the match vs Chelsea, you will see, Old Trafford suddenly woke up when Martial had the ball from the left at about 25 minutes, when he made that pass from which Sanchez shot tamely straight to the keeper. Jose needs to teach his team to be able to create those moments to awake the fans. His team plays those slow sleeping football and he expects the fans to be awake, that's him being unrealistic, nothing else.

No they are not way more succesful than mourinho

 

[Offsideagain]

Let’s cut to the chase here.

All fans, supporters or even ‘consumers’ are expert footballers and managers despite what they think and say. Well at least in their own heads. There are fans from all clubs with opinions and it is their right to express those opinions. If some folk disagree, that is also their right.

United were the main force in the new PL for years. Not so now. Many fans cannot remember or know about the teams from the 70’s which were average at best and expectatations are, quite rightly, high for these fans. As I remember the team from the 1960’s, my expectations are also high but those sides will never be replicated.

All I and I guess most posters on here want is good football with some passion and skill. Problem is that because of the huge investment in players, managers and staff, results are the top priority. So let the moaners moan and let’s all pull for the team. I have moaned about performances but that is part of supporting you team.

I often do wonder if some of the posters are Trolls from other clubs. The media monitor this forum too and often refer to ‘United fans on a popular forum’ usually to stir up a none story.

 

[Lord SInister]

The best thing is to avoid that Match day thread, I forget the last time I read one, let alone participate.

 

[nah_it_wont_happen]

No they are not way more succesful than mourinho

Since 2011:

Massimiliano Allegri's honors list:

AC Milan:
Serie A : 2010–11
Supercoppa Italiana : 2011

Juventus
Serie A : 2014–15, 2015–16, 2016–17
Coppa Italia : 2014–15, 2015–16, 2016–17
Supercoppa Italiana : 2015, runner-up: 2014, 2016, 2017
UEFA Champions League: Runner-up: 2014–15, 2016–17


Pep Guardiola's honors list

Barcelona
La Liga: 2010–11
Copa del Rey: 2011–12
Supercopa de España: 2010, 2011
UEFA Champions League: 2010–11
UEFA Super Cup: 2011
FIFA Club World Cup: 2011

Bayern Munich
Bundesliga: 2013–14, 2014–15, 2015–16
DFB-Pokal: 2013–14, 2015–16
UEFA Super Cup: 2013
FIFA Club World Cup: 2013

Manchester City
EFL Cup: 2017–18


Leonardo's Jardim's honors list:

Olympiacos (let's disregard this)
Superleague Greece: 2012–13
Greek Football Cup: 2012–13

Monaco
Ligue 1: 2016–17


Jose Mourinho's honors list

Real Madrid
La Liga: 2011–12
Copa del Rey: 2010–11
Supercopa de España: 2012

Chelsea
Premier League: 2014–15
Football League Cup: 2014–15

Manchester United
EFL Cup: 2016–17
FA Community Shield: 2016
UEFA Europa League: 2016–17

Clearly, Pep Guardiola and Massimiliano Allegri won far more than Mourinho did since 2011. As for Leonardo Jardim, he is much younger than all of them and really started to flourish, but he has also yet to have the luxury of managing the massive clubs and finances that come with that which Jose have enjoyed. Even then, Jardim hasn't been doing badly, playing attractive football and promoting youth, reminds me a lot about how Fergie used to be in his Aberdeen days (winning leagues against all the odds, doing great in Europe).

All the above stats also mean that Jose Mourinho is clearly on the decline and way past his best. We should stop employing managers who are past it. We have done it with LVG, now Jose.

 

[Rista]

I think criticism of players is fine. I think criticism of Jose’s decisions and tactics is also fine

What I don’t like is the fans who call for the manager to go. I think as fans we can have a really positive impact but we can also have a really negative one. You only have to look at other clubs where good managers have been forced out by fickle fans, only to see that the grass is rarely greener and changing managers regularly isn’t a foundation for long-term success

Criticism is absolutely fine but you can tell there are people who simply don't like the manager or certain players and will only post negative drivel regardless of whether we're winning and playing well or not. They do prefer us to lose if not to sack the manager then at least for the satisfaction that they were "right". You can tell this is a real thing because they almost sound bitter when we beat a good side.

 

[Sky1981]

Since 2011:

Massimiliano Allegri's honors list:

AC Milan:
Serie A : 2010–11
Supercoppa Italiana : 2011

Juventus
Serie A : 2014–15, 2015–16, 2016–17
Coppa Italia : 2014–15, 2015–16, 2016–17
Supercoppa Italiana : 2015, runner-up: 2014, 2016, 2017
UEFA Champions League: Runner-up: 2014–15, 2016–17


Pep Guardiola's honors list

Barcelona
La Liga: 2010–11
Copa del Rey: 2011–12
Supercopa de España: 2010, 2011
UEFA Champions League: 2010–11
UEFA Super Cup: 2011
FIFA Club World Cup: 2011

Bayern Munich
Bundesliga: 2013–14, 2014–15, 2015–16
DFB-Pokal: 2013–14, 2015–16
UEFA Super Cup: 2013
FIFA Club World Cup: 2013

Manchester City
EFL Cup: 2017–18


Leonardo's Jardim's honors list:

Olympiacos (let's disregard this)
Superleague Greece: 2012–13
Greek Football Cup: 2012–13

Monaco
Ligue 1: 2016–17


Jose Mourinho's honors list

Real Madrid
La Liga: 2011–12
Copa del Rey: 2010–11
Supercopa de España: 2012

Chelsea
Premier League: 2014–15
Football League Cup: 2014–15

Manchester United
EFL Cup: 2016–17
FA Community Shield: 2016
UEFA Europa League: 2016–17

Clearly, Pep Guardiola and Massimiliano Allegri won far more than Mourinho did since 2011. As for Leonardo Jardim, he is much younger than all of them and really started to flourish, but he has also yet to have the luxury of managing the massive clubs and finances that come with that which Jose have enjoyed. Even then, Jardim hasn't been doing badly, playing attractive football and promoting youth, reminds me a lot about how Fergie used to be in his Aberdeen days (winning leagues against all the odds, doing great in Europe).

All the above stats also mean that Jose Mourinho is clearly on the decline and way past his best. We should stop employing managers who are past it. We have done it with LVG, now Jose.

You discounted half of mourinho cv...

Well done.

 

[esmufc07]

I think criticism of players is fine. I think criticism of Jose’s decisions and tactics is also fine

What I don’t like is the fans who call for the manager to go. I think as fans we can have a really positive impact but we can also have a really negative one. You only have to look at other clubs where good managers have been forced out by fickle fans, only to see that the grass is rarely greener and changing managers regularly isn’t a foundation for long-term success

To a certain extent, as long as we are able to attract players and their is a long-term plan in place, I never want to see a manager go. It should be a last resort only.

Moyes had to go because his head totally went and he clearly couldn’t cope. I never called for LvGs head and I think it would take us being in the bottom half for me to want JM gone

I've zero issue with criticism of the players and the team. It's a forum for discussion so that's pretty much the whole point. If we want to discuss Valencia and Young as our fullbacks then let's go for it. They don't have to be called shit though. Mourinho doesn't have to be called an idiot for selecting them. We don't need to hear how we are never going to win anything again and how far we are behind City because of it. We can have a rational and productive discussion about it. The problem when you hear comments like the examples just given though is it puts the better posters off even engaging in conversation, so then we're left with pretty much the same threads and comments every time we play. And it gets tiresome after a while.

Since Xmas our football hasn't been good enough and we haven't been consistent enough in getting results. It is frustrating when we drop points in successive home games to Burnley and Southampton. And I swear at the TV and the players in the heat of the moment just as much as anybody. But when I read posters commentating that they would rather see us lose at home to Chelsea in order to facilitate Mourinho being fired, or calling our players donkeys, I just feel we've reached a ridiculous point.

 

[nah_it_wont_happen]

You discounted half of mourinho cv...

Well done.

I disregarded the pre-2011 years of all of the managers. I didn't take into account Guardiola's 2009 trophies too.

I'm exclusively talking about recent years. Since he left Inter Milan he's been a pretty ordinary manager. It's like taking LVG's 90's achievement or Ronadinho's pre-2006 version into account. Football is very fast, people's prime come and go very fast, so did, evidently, with Mourinho.

What is the point in starting it at 2011?To suit your agenda?

Trophies since 2016

Pep - 1
Jose - 2

All the above stats also mean that Pep Guardiola is clearly on the decline and way past his best.

Yes, I have an agenda. that is to have the best manager available for my favorite club, the manager who had most success recently and is still in prime.

Lol, Pep is winning the league by miles and Jose is even finding assuring 2nd place difficult.

Anyway, that's it for me for today.

 

[esmufc07]

Since 2011:

Massimiliano Allegri's honors list:

AC Milan:
Serie A : 2010–11
Supercoppa Italiana : 2011

Juventus
Serie A : 2014–15, 2015–16, 2016–17
Coppa Italia : 2014–15, 2015–16, 2016–17
Supercoppa Italiana : 2015, runner-up: 2014, 2016, 2017
UEFA Champions League: Runner-up: 2014–15, 2016–17


Pep Guardiola's honors list

Barcelona
La Liga: 2010–11
Copa del Rey: 2011–12
Supercopa de España: 2010, 2011
UEFA Champions League: 2010–11
UEFA Super Cup: 2011
FIFA Club World Cup: 2011

Bayern Munich
Bundesliga: 2013–14, 2014–15, 2015–16
DFB-Pokal: 2013–14, 2015–16
UEFA Super Cup: 2013
FIFA Club World Cup: 2013

Manchester City
EFL Cup: 2017–18


Leonardo's Jardim's honors list:

Olympiacos (let's disregard this)
Superleague Greece: 2012–13
Greek Football Cup: 2012–13

Monaco
Ligue 1: 2016–17


Jose Mourinho's honors list

Real Madrid
La Liga: 2011–12
Copa del Rey: 2010–11
Supercopa de España: 2012

Chelsea
Premier League: 2014–15
Football League Cup: 2014–15

Manchester United
EFL Cup: 2016–17
FA Community Shield: 2016
UEFA Europa League: 2016–17

Clearly, Pep Guardiola and Massimiliano Allegri won far more than Mourinho did since 2011. As for Leonardo Jardim, he is much younger than all of them and really started to flourish, but he has also yet to have the luxury of managing the massive clubs and finances that come with that which Jose have enjoyed. Even then, Jardim hasn't been doing badly, playing attractive football and promoting youth, reminds me a lot about how Fergie used to be in his Aberdeen days (winning leagues against all the odds, doing great in Europe).

All the above stats also mean that Jose Mourinho is clearly on the decline and way past his best. We should stop employing managers who are past it. We have done it with LVG, now Jose.

What is the point in starting it at 2011?To suit your agenda?

Trophies since 2016

Pep - 1
Jose - 2

All the above stats also mean that Pep Guardiola is clearly on the decline and way past his best.

 

[KM]

I've zero issue with criticism of the players and the team. It's a forum for discussion so that's pretty much the whole point. If we want to discuss Valencia and Young as our fullbacks then let's go for it. They don't have to be called shit though. Mourinho doesn't have to be called an idiot for selecting them. We don't need to hear how we are never going to win anything again and how far we are behind City because of it. We can have a rational and productive discussion about it. The problem when you hear comments like the examples just given though is it puts the better posters off even engaging in conversation, so then we're left with pretty much the same threads and comments every time we play. And it gets tiresome after a while.

Since Xmas our football hasn't been good enough and we haven't been consistent enough in getting results. It is frustrating when we drop points in successive home games to Burnley and Southampton. And I swear at the TV and the players in the heat of the moment just as much as anybody. But when I read posters commentating that they would rather see us lose at home to Chelsea in order to facilitate Mourinho being fired, or calling our players donkeys, I just feel we've reached a ridiculous point.

Very valid point. I don't want Mourinho to continue as a United manager but I still end up defending him here more just because of the sheer ridiculousness of the points made against him.

 

[esmufc07]

The best thing is to avoid that Match day thread, I forget the last time I read one, let alone participate.

Yeah normally I tend to just watch the game. But we we're fairly poor for 30 minutes so out of morbid curiosity I thought I would see what the consensus on the Caf was. Definitely won't be venturing in there again.

 

[Sky1981]

I disregarded the pre-2011 years of all of the managers. I didn't take into account Guardiola's 2009 trophies too.

I'm exclusively talking about recent years. Since he left Inter Milan he's been a pretty ordinary manager. It's like taking LVG's 90's achievement or Ronadinho's pre-2006 version into account. Football is very fast, people's prime come and go very fast, so did, evidently, with Mourinho.


Yes, I have an agenda. that is to have the best manager available for my favorite club, the manager who had recent success and is still in prime.

Lol, Pep is winning the league by miles and Jose is even finding assuring 2nd place difficult.

Anyway, that's it for me for today.

You keep on moving the goalpost to suit your argument.

I can do that to, jose won 2 trophies 7 months ago. If i take 2017 as starting point of my argument he's still the most succesful manager in the world .

 

[devips]

Spot on, put it perfectly and succinctly!

Absolutely this.

 

[TheReligion]

Well done @esmufc07

Your thread has sparked something positive for the forum. Thanks mate.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

What is the point in starting it at 2011?T

It removes Mourinho's record breaking year at Inter from the equation so that Allegri's CV can look better in comparison.

The jaundiced agenda is further made clear by the poster adding stuff like Allegri's 5 runners-up medals while inexplicably excluding Mourinho's own.

 

[esmufc07]

Well done @esmufc07

Your thread has sparked something positive for the forum. Thanks mate.

Not sure if you're winding me up?

 

[esmufc07]

It removes Mourinho's record breaking year at Inter from the equation so that Allegri's CV can look better in comparison.

The jaundiced agenda is further made clear by the poster adding stuff like Allegri's 5 runners-up medals while inexplicably excluding Mourinho's own.

Didn't even see the runners up bit!

 

[JK-27]

Yes, I have an agenda. that is to have the best manager available for my favorite club, the manager who had most success recently and is still in prime.

Over the past 5 seasons, the only managers who won the Premiere League and who are still in the Premiere League today are Mourinho & Conte. All other managers (Ranieri, Pellegrini, Mancini) have moved to other leagues. So the best available manager who had the most recent success in the Premiere League, and who was available at the time, was Mourinho. And he has won the Premiere league on multiple occasions. Mourinho won the Prem in 2015, and the League Cup and Europa Cup in 2017. How is he past his prime?

 

[Sayros]

The Martial posts earlier in the season became ridiculous when he wasn’t starting. Comments like “he should leave for his own good” and “he’s too good to be treated like this and needs to go” were common place.

I don’t think I could ever imagine a scenario where I’d become so emotionally attached to a player that I’d put his career before the good of the team.

Not everyone here is a fan of Manchester United but enjoy the community and I personally prefer Martial's individual sake to the club's because he's French and I want all French players in the best of opportunities. It's important to not assume the fans of the club are being toxic when some of us are mixed in with their posts. That being said, you will always have a little bit of that from the fans themselves, especially with the media and fans raving about City while United is playing very boring football and getting stick from the same media for it.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Over the past 5 seasons, the only managers who won the Premiere League and who are still in the Premiere League today are Mourinho & Conte. All other managers (Ranieri, Pellegrini, Mancini) have moved to other leagues. So the best available manager who had the most recent success in the Premiere League, and who was available at the time, was Mourinho. And he has won the Premiere league on multiple occasions. Mourinho won the Prem in 2015, and the League Cup and Europa Cup in 2017. How is he past his prime?

Totally agree.

 

[Hugh Jass]

I disregarded the pre-2011 years of all of the managers. I didn't take into account Guardiola's 2009 trophies too.

I'm exclusively talking about recent years. Since he left Inter Milan he's been a pretty ordinary manager. It's like taking LVG's 90's achievement or Ronadinho's pre-2006 version into account. Football is very fast, people's prime come and go very fast, so did, evidently, with Mourinho.


Yes, I have an agenda. that is to have the best manager available for my favorite club, the manager who had most success recently and is still in prime.

Lol, Pep is winning the league by miles and Jose is even finding assuring 2nd place difficult.

Anyway, that's it for me for today.

Terrible attitude to have. Why not get behind the manager.

 

[Garethw]

Not everyone here is a fan of Manchester United but enjoy the community and I personally prefer Martial's individual sake to the club's because he's French and I want all French players in the best of opportunities. It's important to not assume the fans of the club are being toxic when some of us are mixed in with their posts. That being said, you will always have a little bit of that from the fans themselves, especially with the media and fans raving about City while United is playing very boring football and getting stick from the same media for it.

Yours is a very different situation my friend. I completely get where you are coming from.

I was talking about posters that are Manchester united fans and put individual players above the good of the team.

 

[UDontMessWith24]

Do find it quite funny how alot of fans who were completely unable to see it from Pogba perspective in the recent tactical discussion and were prepared to shit on him from all angles, are seen as the great supporters in this forum.

Same with the whole LVG vs Jose thing.. Don't get me wrong I too think anyone backing LVG was an idiot and for me Jose is far superior but you can also see why some have legitimate concerns about him - but it seems doing so makes one an outcast whereas if you were writing off Pogba because he dare ask to play a different role you are a true United fan.

No such thing as a perfect fan, we all have our over passionate moments where we act like idiots or we have certain irrational biases. A certain set of supporters seem to think their way of supporting trumps everyone elses and they tend to succeed in wiping people's memories of how unsupportive they were of certain players.

I think it's criminal to use Pogba in a double pivot but imo he was benched because he couldn't be arsed to go for the header that lead to Newcastle's goal.

 

[Sayros]

Yours is a very different situation my friend. I completely get where you are coming from.

I was talking about posters that are Manchester united fans and put individual players above the good of the team.

I would argue those are not really Manchester United fans then. I'm from Miami, it's like when Lebron James joined the Heat, we all of the sudden had fans I'd never seen before who left just as he did. Not really fans of the team, but will pretend to be so long as their player(s) are there.

Terrible attitude to have. Why not get behind the manager.

That will be an increasingly difficult question to ask as he's wrapping up his second year and the team still looks devoid of ideas or even an identity. The big question though is, who will do a better job that's even available?

 

[Josep Dowling]

Do find it quite funny how alot of fans who were completely unable to see it from Pogba perspective in the recent tactical discussion and were prepared to shit on him from all angles, are seen as the great supporters in this forum.

But the flip side of this is surely blaming Pogba’s form on a formation issue seems incredibly naive.

He wasn’t particularly great against Sevilla in a midfield 3 and I didn’t think he was great against Chelsea in a midfield 3.

He cost £90m, at that price there is bound to be high expectations on him and when he doesn’t meet the standard expected the wolves come out. My issue with this whole ‘fans are a disgrace’ attitude is that since Christmas our form has been poor and we haven’t been playing well. It’s only since the FA cup game against Huddersfield, results have gone back on track. The jury on the performances however for me is still not quite what I hoped this season. I can see why other fans are disgruntled.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

You keep on moving the goalpost to suit your argument.

I can do that to, jose won 2 trophies 7 months ago. If i take 2017 as starting point of my argument he's still the most succesful manager in the world .

He’s not really, you just missed a key word in the line you decided to highlight of his.

recently way more successful managers

Note the key word recently.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Since 2011:

Massimiliano Allegri's honors list:

AC Milan:
Serie A : 2010–11
Supercoppa Italiana : 2011

Juventus
Serie A : 2014–15, 2015–16, 2016–17
Coppa Italia : 2014–15, 2015–16, 2016–17
Supercoppa Italiana : 2015, runner-up: 2014, 2016, 2017
UEFA Champions League: Runner-up: 2014–15, 2016–17


Pep Guardiola's honors list

Barcelona
La Liga: 2010–11
Copa del Rey: 2011–12
Supercopa de España: 2010, 2011
UEFA Champions League: 2010–11
UEFA Super Cup: 2011
FIFA Club World Cup: 2011

Bayern Munich
Bundesliga: 2013–14, 2014–15, 2015–16
DFB-Pokal: 2013–14, 2015–16
UEFA Super Cup: 2013
FIFA Club World Cup: 2013

Manchester City
EFL Cup: 2017–18


Leonardo's Jardim's honors list:

Olympiacos (let's disregard this)
Superleague Greece: 2012–13
Greek Football Cup: 2012–13

Monaco
Ligue 1: 2016–17


Jose Mourinho's honors list

Real Madrid
La Liga: 2011–12
Copa del Rey: 2010–11
Supercopa de España: 2012

Chelsea
Premier League: 2014–15
Football League Cup: 2014–15

Manchester United
EFL Cup: 2016–17
FA Community Shield: 2016
UEFA Europa League: 2016–17

Clearly, Pep Guardiola and Massimiliano Allegri won far more than Mourinho did since 2011. As for Leonardo Jardim, he is much younger than all of them and really started to flourish, but he has also yet to have the luxury of managing the massive clubs and finances that come with that which Jose have enjoyed. Even then, Jardim hasn't been doing badly, playing attractive football and promoting youth, reminds me a lot about how Fergie used to be in his Aberdeen days (winning leagues against all the odds, doing great in Europe).

All the above stats also mean that Jose Mourinho is clearly on the decline and way past his best. We should stop employing managers who are past it. We have done it with LVG, now Jose.

Can’t see how you can say Allegri is first more successful and second an attacking manager. He is neither.

He has won the league in a one team league. Same as all of the German trophies that Guardiola won. You may as well stick Brendan Rodgers amongst those names.

 

[Ekkie Thump]

He’s not really, you just missed a key word in the line you decided to highlight of his.


Note the key word recently.

Comically enough Mourinho was as successful as Allegri between the years 2011 and 2015 too. Dude should have started his comparison in 2015/16.

 

[TheReligion]

Not sure if you're winding me up?

No I'm being very serious!