When was the last time Spurs won away to a top 6 team? Even LVG could do that. Poch not so much.
The Title Race 2017/18 | Done and dusted.
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My assessment is as follows
City - look excellent at putting away the crap sides and that will stand them in good stead. Going forward they are the best side in the league imo.
However, we have yet to see them play XI vs XI against anyone realistically in with a chance of top 6. Let's not forget they drew with Everton at home and were outplayed by Bournemouth. For all they talk about our easy fixtures, they have played Bournemouth, Palace, Watford and Brighton (plus Liverpool with 10 and Everton) Hardly the toughest is it!?
United - defensively the best side in the league and therefore should be able to grind out results.
However, still not fluid in attack. Two young inexperienced players and two older players just below the standard required imo. Heavily reliant on Rom.
Chelsea - strong from front to back. Been majorly underestimated imo so far.
However, feel their defence is liable to the odd shocker. Luiz takes risks, Cahill is getting on and the other CBs/converted FBs sometimes have the odd shaky moment
City - look excellent at putting away the crap sides and that will stand them in good stead. Going forward they are the best side in the league imo.
However, we have yet to see them play XI vs XI against anyone realistically in with a chance of top 6. Let's not forget they drew with Everton at home and were outplayed by Bournemouth. For all they talk about our easy fixtures, they have played Bournemouth, Palace, Watford and Brighton (plus Liverpool with 10 and Everton) Hardly the toughest is it!?
United - defensively the best side in the league and therefore should be able to grind out results.
However, still not fluid in attack. Two young inexperienced players and two older players just below the standard required imo. Heavily reliant on Rom.
Chelsea - strong from front to back. Been majorly underestimated imo so far.
However, feel their defence is liable to the odd shocker. Luiz takes risks, Cahill is getting on and the other CBs/converted FBs sometimes have the odd shaky moment
What's that got to do with what I posted?
Have said this before, will say again.
Chelsea is the best team in the league. Followed by city.
Chelsea is the best team in the league. Followed by city.
February 2016, around the same time Man Utd did. Why and what relevance does it have to what the original post was, or the response to that?
The games against other members of the top 6 are obviously going to be more difficult than against the rest of the league. Yes it is a new season but, even for someone like me who things predicting football is a fool's game, I'd pretty confidently say that those 6 teams will be the top 6 in the league this season.
Now, for me, the little top 6 mini-league yada yada is meaningless anyway. If you win home and away against the other 14 teams, you're standing pretty on 84 points already. You manage that and suddenly the 'harder games' against the top 6 aren't quite as significant anymore.
Also, who cares what the table looks like after 6 games? After 6 games last season, Man City were 1st with 18 points, 4 points more than the next team (Spurs). After ten, they were joint top with Arsenal and Liverpool. Does it really matter how many points you're behind after a few games?
Regardless though, its got to be between Man CIty and Man Utd for me this season, with Chelsea just behind.
3 horse race between the obvious, IMO with Spurs completing the top 4 quite comfortably. Chelsea have really impressed me so far this season, more so than City.
Was a bit worried to see Chelsea easily smash the Stoke we found so awkward a few weeks ago.
Then heard they had no one even resembling a centre back. Those are the breaks at times aren't they.
Like when Liverpool turned up at Arsenal first day last year, to find Arsenal at half strength, and not ready.
So many little bits and pieces like that make up the season, so it's impossible to judge too far ahead right now.
As people mention, City have started like a freight train the last few years, and then dropped off. The fear is one year it won't happen.
Then heard they had no one even resembling a centre back. Those are the breaks at times aren't they.
Like when Liverpool turned up at Arsenal first day last year, to find Arsenal at half strength, and not ready.
So many little bits and pieces like that make up the season, so it's impossible to judge too far ahead right now.
As people mention, City have started like a freight train the last few years, and then dropped off. The fear is one year it won't happen.
@GlastonSpur
What do you mean obviously? So is facing top 4 Spurs at Wembley this year similar to the corresponding fixture from last year?
No? Then great.
Liverpool got top 4 last year from their incredible start of the season, they fell away during the 2nd half of that season and are continuing on with that ordinary form.
Are they still classed as that top side? Which version are we playing in a few weeks?
Thats why its a nonsense argument to make
What do you mean obviously? So is facing top 4 Spurs at Wembley this year similar to the corresponding fixture from last year?
No? Then great.
Liverpool got top 4 last year from their incredible start of the season, they fell away during the 2nd half of that season and are continuing on with that ordinary form.
Are they still classed as that top side? Which version are we playing in a few weeks?
Thats why its a nonsense argument to make
It's hardly nonsense to consider games against Spurs, Liverpool and Arsenal as top level games within the Prem. If you think that United's only top level games will be against City and Chelsea then you're in for a shock.
Actually if the rest are so poor that one team managed to pull off 28 wins against them, it's more than likely that another team will come close to that. So the head-to-heads still matter.
La Liga in the Pep/Jose days where the winner gets 100pts is a good example
@GlastonSpur
They may be of higher quality but they're not of the quality where they can be held aloft as a barometer of a sides title credentials.
The leap from playing Southampton away to Arsenal or Wembley Spurs isnt as great as arguing the "You haven't played a top 6 side yet" nonsense implies.
I'm not on a wind up but I fancy playing Liverpool with their clowns v Lukaku than being up against Pulis and his puke football
They may be of higher quality but they're not of the quality where they can be held aloft as a barometer of a sides title credentials.
The leap from playing Southampton away to Arsenal or Wembley Spurs isnt as great as arguing the "You haven't played a top 6 side yet" nonsense implies.
I'm not on a wind up but I fancy playing Liverpool with their clowns v Lukaku than being up against Pulis and his puke football
I don't get this thinking. Of course it isn't going to be the same fixture. I don't think anybody has suggested it will be the exact same,
Liverpool started the season with 43 points from 19 games and ended on 33 points from 19. Not great but not appalling either. That second 19 games also involved a draw against Man Utd at Old Trafford.
What do you mean by top side anyway? If you're classing it as a Real/ Bayern level of side, then none of us have any games against top sides in the league. I don't see how you don't think that games vs teams that finished 2nd and 4th last season will likely be more difficult than games vs West Brom and Brighton. The top 6 from last season will be the top 6 from this season. And they'll generally provide a tougher challenge than the other 14 teams. That doesn't mean there won't be one off games when that isn't the case (ie Chelsea losing to Crystal Palace at home 2-1 while beating Man Utd at home 4-0). Or Liverpool beating us 2-0 (when it sould have been more) before losing to one of the many bottom clubs they lost to. One off games do not mean that the games against thjose other 5 clubs won't be harder.
Potentially. Though Ferguson won one of his last league titles by basically putting away the bottom 13-14 clubs or so with incredibly efficiency, while not doing so well vs what was then the top 4.
Heads to heads don't matter as much in this league as GD is king first of all.
Which one are you referring to?
12/13 our record against the 2nd-4th placed team was P6W3D1L2
10/11 our record against the 2nd-4th placed team was also P6W3D1L2
11/12 was the season we lost both games to City and lost the title on GD.
Spurs finished effectively 18 points above United last season, so yes, it's a big jump from playing S'hampton away to playing Spurs away.
@africanspur
Its because of fans arguing v our good start due to not playing any top 6 sides yet.
It doesn't make sense. Be it Wembley or horrendous transfer windows it could be argued that 3 of those 6 are substantially weaker than last year.
Is facing Liverpool at home really that much harder than Southampton away as we sit here today? Does that prove anything?
Its not as if City had Evertons run of games, we won't really know how good our win v Southampton or Chelsea battering Stoke will be until well into the season anyway. We would have sat here last year lamenting a dodgey away win v Burnley only to find out how good they would be at home.
Maybe these points are huge because we've lost our best player who could play in our 'harder' games and actually make it easier for us?
Its because of fans arguing v our good start due to not playing any top 6 sides yet.
It doesn't make sense. Be it Wembley or horrendous transfer windows it could be argued that 3 of those 6 are substantially weaker than last year.
Is facing Liverpool at home really that much harder than Southampton away as we sit here today? Does that prove anything?
Its not as if City had Evertons run of games, we won't really know how good our win v Southampton or Chelsea battering Stoke will be until well into the season anyway. We would have sat here last year lamenting a dodgey away win v Burnley only to find out how good they would be at home.
Maybe these points are huge because we've lost our best player who could play in our 'harder' games and actually make it easier for us?
Shocked to see @GlastonSpur ignoring WEMBLEY Spurs..
It's definitely possible and is something I also believe in.
Arsenal under a different manager could be dangerous.
You may have a point.
But just to be on the safe side, lets hope Wenger stays at AFC for the next 10 years.
No, an extra 17 points for United would still have seen you finish below Spurs. It would have required an extra 18 points to finish above us.
My worry with united is mata and mkhi. I feel they are far too inconsistent and cannot be dependable for winning the title. People talk about fullbacks , which we do need to upgrade, but we also need another top attacker to replace mata. I love mata but I don't know if he can help us win the title.
It's factor, but one that will probably diminish as the season wears on.
Your statement is still wrong though, I'm not referring to the rest of the thread. You finished with 17 more points.
Absolutely. Mata more than anyone has to start getting on the scoresheet. Its' all very well to praise him for key passes, assist to an assist and that sorta stuff, but end of the day, he's a first choice forward and should have goals and assist stats. It is very important we do not become wholly dependent on Lukaku like we were on Zlatan last season.
Next few games are crucial. If we can get 26/30 points from the first 10 games, which is quite doable, with goals coming from everyone besides Lukaku, I think we are in the title race and need not worry about top four battles. Zlatan coming in January would help increase our fire-power, so that's a positive.
Are you shrinking the pitch with each game?
Silva hit the post, Kompany skied one from 10 yards out, Jesus 8 yards out. The almost og. Aguero not pulling the trigger when through, all first half. We created loads of chances. Both Kompanies chances from corners are missing from these highlights too.
It's a question of getting more used to it, both physically and psychologically.
It makes sense but you are not willing to recognise it. It's commin sense that a team is more likely to lose points vs stronger teams than against weaker teams. It's about probability. There are surprises - both against top and weak teams - but all in all it is easier and thus more likely to win points vs bottom half and midtable teams. It's too early to tell whether some of the top 6 from last season are weaker this season. Spurs managed to beat Dortmund who are class and Liverpool suffered from losing Mane. I wouldn't say that they are worse than last season.
Considering you've already dropped more points at home than all of last season, one could argue the damage is already done
I agree with this. Us being 17 more points better off would imply we're scoring more goals and conceding less. So if we were somehow on level terms with Spurs, it could be that we had a higher GD than them. So it's 17 points as you say. Talk of 'effectively' is nonsense. However all that is last season. We are a different animal this season and our Goals For stat is significantly improved.
Generally speaking what's funny is this idea that United won't know what's hit them when we come up against a top team. True we are untested and we shall see how we fare against our first top side in Liverpool shortly, but you can bet your bottom dollar that Jose will meticulously prepare to team to bring a positive result back from Anfield. We're not going to be shell-shocked by any team in the League. Believe it or not even United can raise their game to play against a top side.
@Treble
But you're using 1 off games or creating excuses for your confirmation bias. Dortmund dominated that game, something that has rarely happened at WHL.
Again, Im arguing against the top 6 being classsed in a league on it's own. English sides haven't been strong enaugh for that to apply in about 5 years.
Swap Arsenal in for the Everton result and it doesn't look too impressive. Spurs will have to improve by a lot if they want to match Southamptons performance in the Wembley game. (Hell Southampton played better at Wembley last year than Spurs have so far)
They may get better but Spurs / Arsenal and Liverpool have had very few top performances this season so I can't see why beating these underperforming side by mid September would tell us anything more about our title credentials
But you're using 1 off games or creating excuses for your confirmation bias. Dortmund dominated that game, something that has rarely happened at WHL.
Again, Im arguing against the top 6 being classsed in a league on it's own. English sides haven't been strong enaugh for that to apply in about 5 years.
Swap Arsenal in for the Everton result and it doesn't look too impressive. Spurs will have to improve by a lot if they want to match Southamptons performance in the Wembley game. (Hell Southampton played better at Wembley last year than Spurs have so far)
They may get better but Spurs / Arsenal and Liverpool have had very few top performances this season so I can't see why beating these underperforming side by mid September would tell us anything more about our title credentials
The next 6 PL fixtures for the current top 5
Man United
27-Sep CSKA Moscow (A) CL
30-Sep Crystal Palace (H)
14-Oct Liverpool (A)
18-Oct Benfica (A) CL
21-Oct Huddersfield (A)
24-Oct Swansea (A) LC
28-Oct Spurs (H)
31-Oct Benfica (H) CL
05-Nov Chelsea (A)
18-Nov Newcastle (H)
22-Nov Basel (A) CL
Man City
26-Sep Shakhtar Donetsk (H) CL
30-Sep Chelsea (A)
14-Oct Stoke (H)
17-Oct Napoli (H) CL
21-Oct Burnley (H)
24-Oct Wolves (H) LC
28-Oct West Brom (A)
01-Nov Napoli (A) CL
05-Nov Arsenal (H)
18-Nov Leicester (A)
21-Nov Feyenoord (A) CL
Chelsea
27-Sep Atl. Madrid (A) CL
30-Sep Man City (H)
14-Oct Crystal Palace (A)
18-Oct Roma (H) CL
21-Oct Watford (H)
25-Oct Everton (H) LC
28-Oct Bournemouth (A)
31-Oct Roma (A) CL
05-Nov Man United (H)
18-Nov West Brom (A)
22-Nov Qarabag (A) CL
Spurs
26-Sep APOEL Nicosia (A) CL
30-Sep Huddersfield (A)
14-Oct Bournemouth (H)
17-Oct Real Madrid (A) CL
22-Oct Liverpool (H)
24-Oct West Ham (H) LC
28-Oct Man United (A)
01-Nov Real Madrid (H) CL
05-Nov Crystal Palace (H)
18-Nov Arsenal (A)
21-Nov Dortmund (A) CL
Liverpool
26-Sep Spartak Moscow (A) CL
01-Oct Newcastle (A)
14-Oct Man United (H)
17-Oct Maribor (A) CL
22-Oct Spurs (A)
28-Oct Huddersfield (H)
01-Nov Maribor (H) CL
04-Nov West Ham (A)
18-Nov Southampton (H)
21-Oct Sevilla (A) CL
Man United
27-Sep CSKA Moscow (A) CL
30-Sep Crystal Palace (H)
14-Oct Liverpool (A)
18-Oct Benfica (A) CL
21-Oct Huddersfield (A)
24-Oct Swansea (A) LC
28-Oct Spurs (H)
31-Oct Benfica (H) CL
05-Nov Chelsea (A)
18-Nov Newcastle (H)
22-Nov Basel (A) CL
Man City
26-Sep Shakhtar Donetsk (H) CL
30-Sep Chelsea (A)
14-Oct Stoke (H)
17-Oct Napoli (H) CL
21-Oct Burnley (H)
24-Oct Wolves (H) LC
28-Oct West Brom (A)
01-Nov Napoli (A) CL
05-Nov Arsenal (H)
18-Nov Leicester (A)
21-Nov Feyenoord (A) CL
Chelsea
27-Sep Atl. Madrid (A) CL
30-Sep Man City (H)
14-Oct Crystal Palace (A)
18-Oct Roma (H) CL
21-Oct Watford (H)
25-Oct Everton (H) LC
28-Oct Bournemouth (A)
31-Oct Roma (A) CL
05-Nov Man United (H)
18-Nov West Brom (A)
22-Nov Qarabag (A) CL
Spurs
26-Sep APOEL Nicosia (A) CL
30-Sep Huddersfield (A)
14-Oct Bournemouth (H)
17-Oct Real Madrid (A) CL
22-Oct Liverpool (H)
24-Oct West Ham (H) LC
28-Oct Man United (A)
01-Nov Real Madrid (H) CL
05-Nov Crystal Palace (H)
18-Nov Arsenal (A)
21-Nov Dortmund (A) CL
Liverpool
26-Sep Spartak Moscow (A) CL
01-Oct Newcastle (A)
14-Oct Man United (H)
17-Oct Maribor (A) CL
22-Oct Spurs (A)
28-Oct Huddersfield (H)
01-Nov Maribor (H) CL
04-Nov West Ham (A)
18-Nov Southampton (H)
21-Oct Sevilla (A) CL
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So far this season we've had something like 12 different players score for us. Obviously losing our main goalscorer would be a dreadful blow like it would be for anyone, but we're a team with a lot of different avenues for goals to come from.
It's too early to talk about title credentials. Even if City beat Chelsea 5:0 next weak (won't happen), nothing will be decided yet. But Liverpool and Spurs are better teams than Stoke and Soton no matter whether you are willing to recognise it. And the test when we face them will be bigger and may indicate both strong and weak sides of our game about which we are a bit clueless now.
Thanks for posting this, Spurs fixtures look brutal. On paper, City have easy fixtures in the league after Chelsea away.
Not much damage - we're only 2 points down from the same/equivalent home and away fixtures of last season.
Moreover, we've gotten off to a better start in the CL than last season at Wembley.
12? That's a lot especially this early in the season. How many just in the league?
Had united been the ones with the hard start, then you wouldn't have anyone arguing against this mate.
Some people are just deluded.
Two horse race this with the two Manc clubs involved.
I have not been as impressed with Chelsea as many in here. Losing to Burnley at home is abysmal whatever the circumstances and they were second best for long periods against an Arsenal side who were without their best player and lost both their away games prior to that. They will miss Costa, he would've broken open a game like Arsenal at home. Many of Chelsea's pre-Christmas victories were by 1 and through Costa and it remains to be seen if Morata can do the same.
City are favourites for me purely because of their depth in attack and midfield. They have an abundance of quality no one else can match. Think we have the better manager though so hopefully he can make up some of the difference.
City are favourites for me purely because of their depth in attack and midfield. They have an abundance of quality no one else can match. Think we have the better manager though so hopefully he can make up some of the difference.
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