The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll

[Wibble]

Think worst is other Chinese one, called Sinovac. I am not an expert but there should be like 2 different %s, efficiency to not get sick at all and then chance for you to not get fecked hard or even die after getting a vaccine, right?

None of the vaccines are sterilising (totally prevent infection). The effectiveness stats aren't always very comparable because some trials only tested for covid infection when a trial participant presents symptoms which means asymptomtic infections wouldn't be found so it is a measure of how well the vaccine prevents symptomatic and serious disease. If a study tests everyone in the trial for covid then the effectiveness figure is a representation of how well the vaccine reduces any infection.

@Pogue Mahone @Tony Babangida @Volumiza @africanspur - is that right? I also have a recollection (quite possibly wrong) that Moderna and Pfisher were in the former group (didn't test for asymptomatic infections) and AZ/Oxford were in the later group (tested all participants). If this is the case then that might explain some of the gap in effectiveness between AZ and the mRNA vaccines. No idea about the other vaccine's trial methods.

 

[Wibble]

Australia not looking to J&J to help with their vaccine debacle as it is "too similar to AZ"

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-13/johnson-johnson-covid-19-vaccine-australia/100064454

 

[Isotope]

North Carolina as well. I think it was even before April. In general America has done an incredible job pumping almost 4.5 million vaccines a day

Starting April 19 here for 16+ y.o. Biden aims by May, all US should have at least first dose. It's incredibly optimistic, but at least he's serious on this.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Just after I posted last week about the slow roll out, yesterday Denmark vaccinated 100,000 (~ 1.8% of total population) people in one day. If the vaccine delivery keeps up, we now have the resources to finish up in a short duration and enjoy the summer.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Just after I posted last week about the slow roll out, yesterday Denmark vaccinated 100,000 (~ 1.8% of total population) people in one day. If the vaccine delivery keeps up, we now have the resources to finish up in a short duration and enjoy the summer.

Told you Denmark had their shit together!

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Told you Denmark had their shit together!

The infrastructure was never in doubt but the ability to get vaccines was a bit frustrating as it is reliant on the EU.

 

[jojojo]

None of the vaccines are sterilising (totally prevent infection). The effectiveness stats aren't always very comparable because some trials only tested for covid infection when a trial participant presents symptoms which means asymptomtic infections wouldn't be found so it is a measure of how well the vaccine prevents symptomatic and serious disease. If a study tests everyone in the trial for covid then the effectiveness figure is a representation of how well the vaccine reduces any infection.

@Pogue Mahone @Tony Babangida @Volumiza @africanspur - is that right? I also have a recollection (quite possibly wrong) that Moderna and Pfisher were in the former group (didn't test for asymptomatic infections) and AZ/Oxford were in the later group (tested all participants). If this is the case then that might explain some of the gap in effectiveness between AZ and the mRNA vaccines. No idea about the other vaccine's trial methods.

The vaccine trials concentrated on symptomatic infection, and those are the results you see quoted. Some also had sub-trials with repeat testing of the same people or randomised testing of a subset each week. They all looked at bloodwork to get antibody data (for vaccine and for infection) but I've not seen those results published.

AZ did the biggest of those weekly retest trials but the initial data was erratic, and covered multiple dosing patterns, averaging out at about 20% efficacy against asymptomatic infection.
AZ https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-per...how-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-has-90-efficacy

The great unknown with the vaccines is whether the ones who catch covid with/without symptoms are less infectious than the uncaccinated who catch it. Early suggestions from the Israel and UK mass rollouts are that cases are milder and the infected less likely to spread the virus - but that's all about averages and big statistical models, so it's a wait and see.

 

[jojojo]

NHS extends the online booking system to all over 45 (+ the other risk groups that have been previously announced)
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coron...rus-vaccination/book-coronavirus-vaccination/

It's now reckoned that over 95% of the over 55s have had at least one jab and that a similar proportion of 50-55s are either jabbed or booked.

 

[balaks]

NHS extends the online booking system to all over 45 (+ the other risk groups that have been previously announced)
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coron...rus-vaccination/book-coronavirus-vaccination/

It's now reckoned that over 95% of the over 55s have had at least one jab and that a similar proportion of 50-55s are either jabbed or booked.

That really is fantastic news.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The infrastructure was never in doubt but the ability to get vaccines was a bit frustrating as it is reliant on the EU.

All of which came down to the spectacular failure of AZ to meet their Q1 commitments to the EU. Further complicated by the pause to investigate those clotting events. Are they back to using AZ again in Denmark now?

Speaking of which, the roll-out in Ireland just got slightly complicated by AZ being restricted to over 60s only. 15000 appointments cancelled today. Another fecking speed bump. Hopefully the last.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

All of which came down to the spectacular failure of AZ to meet their Q1 commitments to the EU. Further complicated by the pause to investigate those clotting events. Are they back to using AZ again in Denmark now?

Speaking of which, the roll-out in Ireland just got slightly complicated by AZ being restricted to over 60s only. 15000 appointments cancelled today. Another fecking speed bump. Hopefully the last.

Just Pfizer and Moderna for now. The projected end date for vaccination of the entire population has come closer to the middle of July.

 

[Wibble]

The vaccine trials concentrated on symptomatic infection, and those are the results you see quoted. Some also had sub-trials with repeat testing of the same people or randomised testing of a subset each week. They all looked at bloodwork to get antibody data (for vaccine and for infection) but I've not seen those results published.

AZ did the biggest of those weekly retest trials but the initial data was erratic, and covered multiple dosing patterns, averaging out at about 20% efficacy against asymptomatic infection.
AZ https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-per...how-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-has-90-efficacy

The great unknown with the vaccines is whether the ones who catch covid with/without symptoms are less infectious than the uncaccinated who catch it. Early suggestions from the Israel and UK mass rollouts are that cases are milder and the infected less likely to spread the virus - but that's all about averages and big statistical models, so it's a wait and see.

Thanks @jojojo I knew I'd forgotten to tag someone who I should have - sorry

 

[Traub]

Just Pfizer and Moderna for now. The projected end date for vaccination of the entire population has come closer to the middle of July.

That’s fantastic news. I’m really hoping the US and EU (including UK) are basically fully vaccinated by end of Q2/mid-Q3. Selfishly that means the rest of us should be getting vaccinated Q3/Q4.

 

[golden_blunder]

The infrastructure was never in doubt but the ability to get vaccines was a bit frustrating as it is reliant on the EU.

A lot have just been freed up. Ireland has said it’s going to only use AZ for over 60s now. The rest of the programme is on pause. Just as it got to my cohort. FML

 

[backofthenet]

After a slightly frustrating (but not unexpected) few attempts at trying to book this morning, I've now got my 1st jab booked for next Monday. Yay for the over 45's (but under 50s)! Wonder which "flavour" I'll get?

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

A female friend of mine was wondering if the AZ vaccine was in some way interacting with birth control medication in the young women who developed blood clots. Has there been any other hypotheses towards that? Its weird that it would show side effects in such a small segment of the population.

 

[11101]

A female friend of mine was wondering if the AZ vaccine was in some way interacting with birth control medication in the young women who developed blood clots. Has there been any other hypotheses towards that? Its weird that it would show side effects in such a small segment of the population.

According to the health service here there is no link between the AZ blood clots and women taking birth control pills.

 

[11101]

J&J vaccine going on hold in the US over blood clots. Great....

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/13/us/politics/johnson-johnson-vaccine-blood-clots-fda-cdc.html

 

[Rajma]

J&J vaccine going on hold in the US over blood clots. Great....

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/13/us/politics/johnson-johnson-vaccine-blood-clots-fda-cdc.html

J&J is adenovirus based vaccine not too dissimilar to AZ, right? On the surface and without the underlying data it does come across as if there’s some sort of casual link there.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

J&J vaccine going on hold in the US over blood clots. Great....

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/13/us/politics/johnson-johnson-vaccine-blood-clots-fda-cdc.html

feck, Denmark ordered a load of these.

 

[11101]

J&J is adenovirus based vaccine not too dissimilar to AZ, right? On the surface and without the underlying data it does come across as if there’s some sort of casual link there.

Clearly. The US hasn't approved the AZ vaccine so they haven't been through this whole review process over blood clotting yet. Hopefully in Europe it will be less of an issue, our first delivery arrives today.

 

[sullydnl]

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[Traub]

Damn, hopefully this is short lived.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

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Oh for feck’s sake...

 

[Oldyella]

Do we know if the current UK plan is that your 2nd dose should be from the same provider? My first was Pfizer and I'm waiting to hear about the 2nd, wondering if the J&J news will delay it at all(aside from the fact one less provider may see queues generally grow)

 

[shamans]

Hope this news is short lived. The moderna and pfizer's here were just fading out while j and j was pumping in the millions.

 

[MarylandMUFan]

For some reason, my area (Maryland, USA) has loads of Pfeizer ones. We were really slow to roll out then all of a sudden in the last week, it seems like everyone can get one. My kids with no underlying conditions (17 and 19) are getting their first shots this week (I got my 1st Pfeizer shot last week through work).

 

[Snowjoe]

Do we know if the current UK plan is that your 2nd dose should be from the same provider? My first was Pfizer and I'm waiting to hear about the 2nd, wondering if the J&J news will delay it at all(aside from the fact one less provider may see queues generally grow)

There’s provisions to mix I think but it was more a contingency rather than something you’d expect to see as routine. The plan is definitely to give a second dose of the same

 

[Oldyella]

There’s provisions to mix I think but it was more a contingency rather than something you’d expect to see as routine. The plan is definitely to give a second dose of the same

OK cheers. Fingers crossed I get the same again. Never mix drinks, not starting with vaccines.

 

[0le]

Is there an increased risk of blood clot problems if you have Thalassemia or Thalassemia trait?

 

[Sir Matt]

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So far, there have been 6 reported incidents of blood clots that are under investigation out of 7 million who've received the vaccine. Overall, the risk appears to be miniscule. The pause may be made easier by the fact that J&J production issues delayed millions of doses so the US was already expecting a much smaller amount of the vaccine over the next few weeks.

 

[Raoul]

Paused in the US as well

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[jojojo]

Just a glimpse of what's been going on behind the scenes in the past three weeks on the thrombocytopenia + thrombosis front:
https://www.theguardian.com/society...-covid-jab-university-college-london-hospital
And why it's now both a little easier for hospital haemotologists to spot and why we now have the starting points for treatment.

Still a lot that we don't know, but it's good to see that the right kind of people are on the case.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Just a glimpse of what's been going on behind the scenes in the past three weeks on the thrombocytopenia + thrombosis front:
https://www.theguardian.com/society...-covid-jab-university-college-london-hospital
And why it's now both a little easier for hospital haemotologists to spot and why we now have the starting points for treatment.

Still a lot that we don't know, but it's good to see that the right kind of people are on the case.

Am I being a bit over-sensitive in finding it odd the way the Guardian seems to want to give UK medical excellence all the credit for a discovery that was made/shared by German medics several weeks ago?

To be fair to Prof Scully she gives credit where it’s due but the headline/tone of the article is arguably a bit misleading. And it’s particularly ironic when you consider that the UK should have been well ahead of the curve on this, due to much earlier/heavier use of the AZ vaccine, yet somehow missed the safety signal until after a number of other countries had already raised the red flag.

 

[jojojo]

Am I being a bit over-sensitive in finding it odd the way the Guardian seems to want to give UK medical excellence all the credit for a discovery that was made/shared by German medics several weeks ago?

To be fair to Prof Scully she gives credit where it’s due but the headline/tone of the article is arguably a bit misleading. And it’s particularly ironic when you consider that the UK should have been well ahead of the curve on this, due to much earlier/heavier use of the AZ vaccine, yet somehow missed the safety signal until after a number of other countries had already raised the red flag.

I agree, the construction/emphasis is a bit weird. We know that there were trigger reports/warnings coming in from Norway with very fast follow-ups/confirmation from the German team, right at the start. Personally, I'd guess flags were going up in specialist haemotologists groups across Europe more or less simultaneously and there were just different approaches to publication, but I don't know that.

I've no idea if the repurposed HIT/PF4 analysis idea was also happening simultaneously across the investigations - though I know that it is one of Prof Scully's specialist subjects.

I just liked that it looks at the world behind the press conferences and interviews, and offers the collaborative back story of why the first version of the BSH treatment guide could already talk about exactly which test/assay method to use, and talk about treatment strategies - even though it initially got published when the MHRA were still collating/requesting the case numbers.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I agree, the construction/emphasis is a bit weird. We know that there were trigger reports/warnings coming in from Norway with very fast follow-ups/confirmation from the German team, right at the start. Personally, I'd guess flags were going up in specialist haemotologists groups across Europe more or less simultaneously and there were just different approaches to publication, but I don't know that.

I've no idea if the repurposed HIT/PF4 analysis idea was also happening simultaneously across the investigations - though I know that it is one of Prof Scully's specialist subjects.

I just liked that it looks at the world behind the press conferences and interviews, and offers the collaborative back story of why the first version of the BSH treatment guide could already talk about exactly which test/assay method to use, and talk about treatment strategies - even though it initially got published when the MHRA were still collating/requesting the case numbers.

Bit of a side note but this pandemic has seen networking amongst medical specialists around the world kick into a whole new gear. They mention a haematology whatsapp group in that article but that’s just one of many similar examples I’ve come across in the last year. It’s been a quiet revolution going on in the background of this whole horrible saga.

 

[Traub]

J&J rollout also paused here in South Africa. We're only planning on vaccinating using Pfizer and J&J, so it'll be particularly bad for us if this doesn't come back online.

 

[Brophs]

All of which came down to the spectacular failure of AZ to meet their Q1 commitments to the EU. Further complicated by the pause to investigate those clotting events. Are they back to using AZ again in Denmark now?

Speaking of which, the roll-out in Ireland just got slightly complicated by AZ being restricted to over 60s only. 15000 appointments cancelled today. Another fecking speed bump. Hopefully the last.

[Narrator] It wasn't the last.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

https://www.thejournal.ie/traveller...izer-factory-to-get-vaccines-5408425-Apr2021/

@Massive Spanner

 

[Wibble]

Provisional data shows that lengthening the gap between shots to vaccinate more people with the first shot is reducing vaccine escape (reduced vaccine effectiveness due to variant evolution) as the fear was that the tactic could increase it - which is obviously good news.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00202-4/fulltext