I loved this series. Can't remember anyone's name now though really.
The West Wing
- Thread starter duffer
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Agreed - it's pretty much perfection.
Mrs. Landingham 
Yup, utterly superb. Can't think of a way they could have made that episode any better.
I'm watching this through for the first time. Enjoying it, but I've just watched the third episode of the second series, Midterms. My god, that was terrible. God bless America.
Agreed. I find myself just going back to watch random episodes and getting caught up in the show again. So many great character's the dialogue is top quality.
The first 4 where the best with a drop off after Sorkin and Lowe left.
Standout episodes: Noel, Two cathedral's, Posse Comitatus, In the shadow of two gunmen part's one and two, 20 hours in America part one and two, The Supremes.
Remind me if I forgot any.
Standout episodes: Noel, Two cathedral's, Posse Comitatus, In the shadow of two gunmen part's one and two, 20 hours in America part one and two, The Supremes.
Remind me if I forgot any.
Also who is the best mind on the show?
Currently re-watching it. Up to S3E12 atm. I'd say Josh is the best mind out of all of them, he's completely retarded at the things that aren't important but when it comes to the politics he's spot on the majority of the time. Leo was good though too. Bartlet and Toby are too idealistic, CJ never came across as particularly savvy. Sam had the potential but was never really developed properly as a character.
Politically Josh was the best mind though bar Leo I would say though we didn't get to see Leo do much Politicking as COS. Josh did have quite a few high profile gaffe's though. Also he lost it towards the end of Santos' campaign, they wanted to bring in Leo iirc. Sam was great at the start as the show was originally meant to be based around him but they let his character loss purpose. I found CJ annoying a terrible choice to replace Leo, I guess that was a plot device so Josh could go and work for Santos.
I'm coming to the end of season 5 at the moment. I really love the show, and especially the first seasons, but I do have a couple of qualms with it:
- it gets too soap-opera-y at times, and some of the storylines are a bit silly (Zoe Bartlet's kidnapping comes to mind)
- for a show that pays so much attention to the writing, I'm surprised that some characters didn't really get closure, especially Sam who just slipped out of the picture from one episode to another without a mention, it was all very bizarre;
- I love the first seasons when they focus on domestic politics, but I find the show a bit heavy handed when it comes to international politics and terrorism;
- I loved how in the first seasons, the writing is quite balanced and the daily bread of the Bartlet administration is small victories and small defeats; this season, I felt they went OTT in quite a few episodes, like 'ok today's episode will be about the Middle East and the turmoil there well these brilliant minds are going to have a look at the situation and wow they found a solution!' or 'ok Toby is just gonna look into the Social security problem today and solve it, he's got a few hours to spare'. It's a bit too much at times, well for me.
Overall, I really love it though. There are some superb episodes (20 hours in America and Two Cathedrals come to mind immediately) and it's very consistent overall. The acting is great, and even though I preferred the tone of the show when Sorkin was with the writing team, I still enjoy it now, even though it feels like the new team are still trying to find their feet. It's very interesting even though it requires a bit of suspension of disbelief on the part of the viewer of course cos you feel it's quite fictionalized, but that's fine. Anyhow, it's a great show worth watching if only for the dialogue.
- it gets too soap-opera-y at times, and some of the storylines are a bit silly (Zoe Bartlet's kidnapping comes to mind)
- for a show that pays so much attention to the writing, I'm surprised that some characters didn't really get closure, especially Sam who just slipped out of the picture from one episode to another without a mention, it was all very bizarre;
- I love the first seasons when they focus on domestic politics, but I find the show a bit heavy handed when it comes to international politics and terrorism;
- I loved how in the first seasons, the writing is quite balanced and the daily bread of the Bartlet administration is small victories and small defeats; this season, I felt they went OTT in quite a few episodes, like 'ok today's episode will be about the Middle East and the turmoil there well these brilliant minds are going to have a look at the situation and wow they found a solution!' or 'ok Toby is just gonna look into the Social security problem today and solve it, he's got a few hours to spare'. It's a bit too much at times, well for me.
Overall, I really love it though. There are some superb episodes (20 hours in America and Two Cathedrals come to mind immediately) and it's very consistent overall. The acting is great, and even though I preferred the tone of the show when Sorkin was with the writing team, I still enjoy it now, even though it feels like the new team are still trying to find their feet. It's very interesting even though it requires a bit of suspension of disbelief on the part of the viewer of course cos you feel it's quite fictionalized, but that's fine. Anyhow, it's a great show worth watching if only for the dialogue.
Rob Lowe left the show due to a salary dispute so that's probably why Sam just suddenly disappeared and didn't get any closure. Apparently Sheen's salary was four times more than the rest of the cast.
It was the show started off with Lowe and the staff meaning to be the focus, while we would see Sheen maybe four times a season. They started filming and his presence was so much they changed it. Lowe was still making more than all the other's though. Sheen had become the show it made sense.
Oh I read a little bit and understood that maybe they had to get rid of Lowe (or he just wanted to leave), but I just feel his departure was handled weirdly, when even with just a scene, a few sentences, it could've been done better. It's a small gripe, but I think it's an example of how it sometimes leaves some things hanging in the air.
I agree. At the time I had no idea regarding the behind the scenes trouble and kept wondering "where the hell is Sam?!".
Nothing will ever top that scene in Two Cathedrals. The ending is brilliant too, so much feeling anytime I hear this:
I only saw it recently, years after it ended. What a fantastic show, absolutely loved it. Brilliant written, brilliantly acted. Sure, it went over the top a little bit. After the shooting at the end of the first season you'd think 'what's left?', and somehow being able to bring peace to Israel and Palestine made me chuckle. Still, brilliant. Loved the entry the president made at the end of the first episode and once I went through the rest of the seasons I had to go back to that.
Saw Richard Schiff a couple of times as well in recent days, on Man of Steel and Bones.
Saw Richard Schiff a couple of times as well in recent days, on Man of Steel and Bones.
Yeah best intro ever, the whole episode I was thinking, where is he?
spend hours on the youtube clips of my favourite scenes at times.
I can re-watch any of the episodes from the first 2-3 seasons - never get tired of the writing or the acting.
I agree with several of the comments above - I think the show was at its best when they were dealing with the less dramatic events. Zoe being kidnapped was, to me, an example of trying to generate drama and tension by having an extraordinary incident, rather than being able to generate them through storytelling and character development/arcs, as they did more in the early seasons.
I agree with several of the comments above - I think the show was at its best when they were dealing with the less dramatic events. Zoe being kidnapped was, to me, an example of trying to generate drama and tension by having an extraordinary incident, rather than being able to generate them through storytelling and character development/arcs, as they did more in the early seasons.
Agreed, I might even push it to half way through season 4. The debate episode.
I seem to be in the minority of enjoying some of the later seasons.
I really enjoyed the Santos campaign stuff (but obviously the 2nd half of season 1 to 3 *maybe 4* are the best)
I've seen a few episodes here and there over the years, but I'm going to try to watch at least the first season in order over my Christmas break. On episode 3, and its as good as I expected it to be. One of the things I find kind of funny is that the show is so committed to telling the audience how smart these people are.
Good stuff though so far
Edit: Just saw the scene with Bartlet high on painkillers
"I'm seriously thinking about getting a dog"
Good stuff though so far
Edit: Just saw the scene with Bartlet high on painkillers
"I'm seriously thinking about getting a dog"
Yeah I think that's what I was trying to convey, you expressed it better. You talk about Zoe's kidnapping which is a good example, but most of the terrorism/exterior politics are a bit similar in that way, they're trying to show how high the stakes are and make it overly dramatic. Doesn't mean that those are episodes are shit btw, it's just that I enjoyed the lower key episodes. Maybe also cos I don't know much about the intricacies of American politics (relations between the three branches of powers and so on) and I was more interested in it. But I agree that they were very good at generating drama with very simple situations which was pretty engrossing.
True!
Despite the admiration I have for Sorkin, I get the feeling that it's criticism that can be levelled to most of his stuff. It makes the characters a bit less believable, but it doesn't ruin it by any means.Yeah, good point. I'm only five episodes in but I can't think of one character I dislike, which is odd because I usually can usually find one character in any show that I dislike for any number of illogical reasons. Besides what I wrote about the characters' intelligence, every individual seems to have been meticulously thought out well in advance. Each has their own intricacies, however subtle. I don't know if its the acting or the writing, or (probably) some combination of both, that brings this character development out, but its brilliant and refreshing to see.True!
I actually care about the characters, which is weird because I rarely get invested emotionally in any television show or movie, bar probably only Band of Brothers. I have a cold, dead heart so its difficult for me to get drawn into anything relating to the small or big screen, but this show has me hooked already
Plus, the show has Ron fecking Swanson, although his calling for more government spending is extremely odd, even when it concerns bad ass wolves.
I've seen a few episodes here and there over the years, but I'm going to try to watch at least the first season in order over my Christmas break. On episode 3, and its as good as I expected it to be. One of the things I find kind of funny is that the show is so committed to telling the audience how smart these people are.
Good stuff though so far
Edit: Just saw the scene with Bartlet high on painkillers
"I'm seriously thinking about getting a dog"
Yes, typcal Sorkin. The amount of times the mention what they went to school or the degree they have throughout the series
Even the dialogue is pushed towards that, 'this is a clever show' feel to it.
I didn't like the later stuff as much. There were a few standout episodes though. The Supremes with Glen Close and David Fincher and Ellie's wedding (more for the Josh stuff) immediately come to mind.
When they surround him
Some of the arc's were poor and C.J as COS was a joke.
I liked the crazy/senile Judge Ashlynn
'You hear that? Jed Bartlett from New Hampshire has an idea'
I have a lot of the scenes/dialogue committed to memory
Mandy. I think she's the only character I didn't like and she thankfully disappeared after Season One, never to be mentioned again.
I didn't like the later stuff as much. There were a few standout episodes though. The Supremes with Glen Close and David Fincher and Ellie's wedding (more for the Josh stuff) immediately come to mind.
When they surround him
Some of the arc's were poor and C.J as COS was a joke.
I liked the crazy/senile Judge Ashlynn
'You hear that? Jed Bartlett from New Hampshire has an idea'
I have a lot of the scenes/dialogue committed to memory
Get that sad face out of there, when I watch episodes again now I can practically recite every word!
There have been shows since which are 'better' (BB, Wire, Sopranos) but for me, West Wing will always be my favourite.
I also liked the later seasons, I thought Santos and Vinic were brilliant. Season 5 was a bit of a lull, but 6 and 7 were great.
I have watched all three and I am watching the remaining 'great shows' (Deadwood, Mad Men, Six feet under and I may watch Rome) and I come back to the WW more than any of the others. Had me contemplating going into public office
.The writing is just.....
Oh yeah she was awful! Incredibly annoying character, no chemistry with any of the other characters either.
Just finished season 5 and was a bit bored by it, glad to hear it picks up!
Had me contemplating getting plastic surgery to look like Rob LoweHad me contemplating going into public office
Oh yeah she was awful! Incredibly annoying character, no chemistry with any of the other characters either.
Just finished season 5 and was a bit bored by it, glad to hear it picks up!
Had me contemplating getting plastic surgery to look like Rob Lowe
, it's a shame he left Sam was one of my favourites.One of the best intro's. A scene which shows the best of Sam and the shows intellectual snobbery.
How are my video's working guy's?. I'm trying to be to this thread what Red Shorts is to the HIMYM thread.
Can't play vids at work, is that '20 Hours in America' speech you posted the one where he talks about the streets in heaven being too full with Angels? Where Bruno asks Sam when he wrote the end and he says in the car so Bruno calls him a freak?
If so that's incredibly moving in the context of the episode.
If so that's incredibly moving in the context of the episode.
Yes it is the music complemented it perfectly, he says 'This is a time for American heroes and we reach for the stars' like he did in his speech in Indiana (20 hours in America part one) but the context was so different and it resonated so well with me.
I loved that episode, taught us how clever Josh actually is (if some didn't know already) I never thought he was smarter than Josh. The adventure they went on and the conversations they had throughout the episode, when they realised they were in different timezones.
"you have an inadvertent way of putting down my Judaism by making out you have a sharper anti semitism radar than me"
"you know the ancient Hebrews had a word for Jews from Westport, the called it Presbyterian"
"and by saying things like that"
"first guy to miss has to shave his beard"
I loved those two episodes.
"you know the ancient Hebrews had a word for Jews from Westport, the called it Presbyterian"
"and by saying things like that"
"first guy to miss has to shave his beard"
I loved those two episodes.Bartlett: Whoa boy
Sam: How you doing Mr President?
Bartlett: who wrote this?
Nasa Writer: I did sir, I'm Scott Tate from Nasa Public affairs.
Bartlett: Scott unique means one of a kind, something can't be very unique nor can it be extremely historic
C.J: While we are at it do we have to use the words live twice in the first two sentences like we have just cracked the technology
Nasa Writer:look....erm
C.J: We are also broadcasting in living colour right?
Bartlett: Sam! He's going to make some changes.
Sam: How you doing Mr President?
Bartlett: who wrote this?
Nasa Writer: I did sir, I'm Scott Tate from Nasa Public affairs.
Bartlett: Scott unique means one of a kind, something can't be very unique nor can it be extremely historic
C.J: While we are at it do we have to use the words live twice in the first two sentences like we have just cracked the technology
Nasa Writer:look....erm
C.J: We are also broadcasting in living colour right?
Bartlett: Sam! He's going to make some changes.
I could fill a few dozen pages with these exchanges, god I love this show.
I was just going to say that if we started doing 'best quotes of the West Wing', we could be here all night!
After leaving Josh at the airport when his dad dies.
Bartlett: Tonight, what began in the commons in Concord Massachusetts as alliance of farmers and workers, of cobblers and tinsmiths, of statesmen and students, of mothers and wives, of men and boys, lives two centuries later as America!! My name is Josiah Bartlett and I accept your nomination for the presidency of the United States.
It's the last 30 seconds of the scene.
I wanted to be American after this speech, they used music so well to compliment speeches too.
Guys what was your opinion as Jed as a man and a President?
Bartlett: Tonight, what began in the commons in Concord Massachusetts as alliance of farmers and workers, of cobblers and tinsmiths, of statesmen and students, of mothers and wives, of men and boys, lives two centuries later as America!! My name is Josiah Bartlett and I accept your nomination for the presidency of the United States.
It's the last 30 seconds of the scene.
I wanted to be American after this speech, they used music so well to compliment speeches too.
Guys what was your opinion as Jed as a man and a President?
Started season 6. I guess we don't have to use spoilers, as the show has been finished for ages?
I was a bit surprised by Leo's heart attack, and I'm a bit meh about the choice of CJ to replace him. However, the episode I watched this morning (well, half of it in the metro) had loads of really funny moments: Josh and Toby handing their resignation letters and Jed walking in saying he feels he should step down too And Toby's press briefing about the peace keeping in the Middle East, I actually laughed out loud in the metro!
The whole peace talks was a bit too much for me, it's kind of what I was saying earlier, it's like they can do no wrong. They manage to broker peace in a few days like it's nothing, and just after terrorist attacks and everything. Not very believable. And even though I quite liked her, the blonde girl from NSA who was suddenly catapulted into the show and was a key player in the peace talks was also not very believable for me, I thought it was a bit over the top.
I was a bit surprised by Leo's heart attack, and I'm a bit meh about the choice of CJ to replace him. However, the episode I watched this morning (well, half of it in the metro) had loads of really funny moments: Josh and Toby handing their resignation letters and Jed walking in saying he feels he should step down too
And Toby's press briefing about the peace keeping in the Middle East, I actually laughed out loud in the metro!The whole peace talks was a bit too much for me, it's kind of what I was saying earlier, it's like they can do no wrong. They manage to broker peace in a few days like it's nothing, and just after terrorist attacks and everything. Not very believable. And even though I quite liked her, the blonde girl from NSA who was suddenly catapulted into the show and was a key player in the peace talks was also not very believable for me, I thought it was a bit over the top.
CJ can keep the peace with her purse
I wasn't sure about Kate at first but once she's been in it a little while I warmed to her.
That heart attack scene with Leo is hard to watch now considering John Spencer died from one
I wasn't sure about Kate at first but once she's been in it a little while I warmed to her.
That heart attack scene with Leo is hard to watch now considering John Spencer died from one
The exact quote is: "The President's fixing to send C.J. Cregg to Ramallah to swat at suicide bombers with her purse". fecking brilliant!CJ can keep the peace with her purse
I wasn't sure about Kate at first but once she's been in it a little while I warmed to her.
That heart attack scene with Leo is hard to watch now considering John Spencer died from one
I quite like Kate to be honest, I just thought her role in all the peace talks (and everything leading up to it) wasn't quite believable for a rookie in that position. I mean she's obviously bright and all, but she effectively becomes a policy maker in the space of a couple of episodes.
Didn't know that about John Spencer, didn't even know he was dead! That's very sad