I actually never really liked CJ
Does anyone remember that Jackel episode? Her performance was very weird
Does anyone remember that Jackel episode? Her performance was very weird
The West Wing
- Thread starter duffer
- Start date
Never quite got the bigging up of her Jackal performance... internally in the show, I mean.
My upstairs neighbour looks like Donna.
*Hmm, I think I need some more comedy injected into the show, let's add another klutzy socially awkward woman, preferably blonde.*
I stopped watching the show and sort of forgot about it after Bartlett got re-elected, I was pretty bored by the show and all the characters by then.
I stopped watching the show and sort of forgot about it after Bartlett got re-elected, I was pretty bored by the show and all the characters by then.
Unrelated, but the '....' in the thread title annoy me!
Yeah, me too. It's soo boring/annoying how the West Wing is one big bff club and how everyone is idealistic and enthusiastic and 'good'. Often it felt like the show was either written by a 12 year old girl or a propaganda piece.
Iuno, that didn't get my goat too much. There was plenty of pettiness as well, though most of it portrayed on the Republican side, but the show was eager enough to show that there are people on both sides who do and do not deserve to be in government.
Also, I didn't mind the idealisation... I wish politics were more like that ;P
Also, I didn't mind the idealisation... I wish politics were more like that ;P
I don't really mind the idealism, it's mostly the sappy melodrama that gets on my nerves. Toby is the worst.
Season 6 is so bad. I forgot how bad it was.
Which one is season 6? I mean what happens in it?
If it's the one I'm thinking of, it starts off terribly with all the stuff at Camp David with the parties from Israel and Palestine, goes on for a few episodes, they magically come to a solution for peace in the Middle East, and Leo has a heart attack. Then you have a few episodes of CJ being dreadful as chief as staff, but I remember it picking up drastically when Josh joins Santos's campaign.
Actually, is there the bit where he goes to China in that season, and he's stuck in bed cos of his MS?
Yeah, that's the one. Season 5 was very good despite the loss of Sorkin and Season 7 had the election to keep momentum. Season 6 is the clear weak point.
There's a moment as well when it gets a bit boring, when his daughter is kidnapped, some of the stuff around that is good, but some of it is a bit soapy and annoyed me. Was probably season 5 though.
That French character they had who Peggy from Mad Men was enamoured with was ridiculous though.
And in my souvenir, season 6 picks up around the Santos campaign moments and works well towards the end, no?
That French character they had who Peggy from Mad Men was enamoured with was ridiculous though.
And in my souvenir, season 6 picks up around the Santos campaign moments and works well towards the end, no?
I'm enamoured with you.
Season 7 was good, but it achieved the remarkable feat of making want the Republican to win, since the goody goody Democart was far too perfect to be remotely interesting. Plus Alan Alda was brilliant.
He really was. I read they'd actually planned on making Alda win, but had a change of heart after John Spencer's death.
Me?
I've heard that too. But it doesn't really chime with the flashforward at the begining of the season, which from what I remember showed (or at least heavily implied) Josh was working for the President. Plus even without Sorkin, it's a Democrat's fantasy show. They'd never have a Republican win it.
Nah. Sorkin's 1950's comic sensibility.
Yeah you're probably right, it's not as black and white as I'd read it after some quick googling. Apparently, when they first set out on this campaign story, Santos was meant to win, but Alan Alda came across so well and so strongly that the writers were considering changing their planned ending to make him win; and apparently, John Spencer's death kind of killed any debate along those lines and they reverted back to their initial plan.
And I called you my soulmate!
Oh.
And I called you my soulmate!I'm more kinda infatuated with you.
That'll do pig. That'll do.
Yeah that makes sense. I can definitely see them adding in the role they gave him at the end (whatever it was, secretary of state or something, can't remember) due to Alda's popularity. There was nothing wrong with Smit's portrayal either, the character was just written as too perfect and thus too bland. Even Bartlett had lots of vices to round him out.
Alda was great, obviously too much so seeing as they brought in the more stereotypical Repubs to 'rescue the campaign' and 'appeal to the base' after the nuclear incident 
Appeal to the base obviously meaning turn into a bible hugging, pro life with no exceptions, gun toting creationist.
Appeal to the base obviously meaning turn into a bible hugging, pro life with no exceptions, gun toting creationist.
She had really done it jokingly and so they inserted it into the episode. No idea why as it wasn't particularly good
Not sure if anyone saw the feature they did on Empire about The West Wing:
http://www.empireonline.com/westwing/
Really interesting!
I never knew this bit about the fish bowl:
http://www.empireonline.com/westwing/fishbowl.asp
http://www.empireonline.com/westwing/
Really interesting!
I never knew this bit about the fish bowl:
http://www.empireonline.com/westwing/fishbowl.asp
this is my least favourite thing of season 1 too. It's actually a bit of an in-joke from the crew as the actress who plays CJ did it for the crew one night and they loved it. In the show its just a bit weird.
it is true.
After sorkin left you can see the writers make a concerted effort to pull away from the left wing/democrat centred ideology of the show, one of the show's main criticisms at the time. You can see this with things like the introduction of the blonde annoying lawyer.
The writers have stated on more than one occasion that they originally planned for Alda to win. However, they decided against it after the death of Leo. The sort of prologue they did with josh and the president they could have done after and edited it in.
personally im glad they let santos win it would have left a bad taste in the mouth.
Santos was just far too bland. Even Sorkin's fantasy President had all sorts of foibles. He was lying to the public about his illness for the first 2 series (easily an impeachable offence) was an openly weak military leader, and was even constantly nipping out for a fag. They never had the courage of their convictions to give an ethnic minority candidate anywhere near that kind of imperfection, and as such, anywhere near a personality.
Last edited:
I thought Ainsley was a Sorkin creation.
For the illness, they made a good ethical issue over it because he never actually lied. In fact, he never actually did anything wrong- is he legally obliged to tell electorate of it? no.
His wife did though with the medication stuff but that's an issue for the AMA.
As for the military stuff, at the end of the day what president (in real life) would have had more experience? What evidence do you have that bush, clinton, obama, regan were stronger military leaders? Again, this is an excellent aspect of the show, he starts off incredibly naive militarily as seen in the 'proportional response' episode but as the years go by he becomes more and more a strong leader, but all of this is because of the work and help of the military advisors (like fitz), which is exactly what it would be like in the real world.
Thank you for posting that. A great read.
Well indeed, that's kind of the point. My point isn't that Bartlett was unrealistic, it's that Santos was. Bartlett has these kind of minor foibles that real people have (even down to smoking) which made him a proper, identifiable characeter. Santos was too perfect. He was even shown as having the same diplomatic, democratic (Sorkin-esque) attitude to war, but with the cast iron unarguable back up of being a war hero to boot.
Last edited:
Nice, will give that a read, thanks for posting.
She was in it from season two.
This show creates emotion better than any other I've even known.
I've probably watched it from start to finish a dozen times over the years and there's still scenes that get me every time.
I've probably watched it from start to finish a dozen times over the years and there's still scenes that get me every time.
It creates sentimentality well indeed.
You must subscribe to this thread to respond that quickly. That shows how much you love it.
Finished re-watching it with Mrs. RiP last night, she hadn't seen it the first time round. She ended up enjoying it (which I didn't necessarily expect) and I enjoyed it as much the second time, though the decrease in quality is particularly notable mid-season 5 to mid-season 6 when you're expecting it. Thank God for the primary/presidential election lifeline they had towards the end of the show. The first four seasons with Sorkin on board are of very consistent quality and the show ranks very high in the 'best shows ever' debates for me, especially when you put it back in the context of when it was first aired.
Really really good show that is incredibly rewarding if it's your thing (I know Nilsson didn't like it at all, probably others as well).
Really really good show that is incredibly rewarding if it's your thing (I know Nilsson didn't like it at all, probably others as well).
I wouldn't say I wouldn't say I disliked it.
You wouldn't wouldn't? Interesting.
But you did say you wouldn't say you wouldn't say you disliked it.
Just got my missus into it too.
I had originally watched it upto Season 5 I think and stopped.
Restarted with the missus and we're at the start of Season 7 - incredible show!
So proud that my 7 year old thread is still going strong.