Such a shame how little we won with that side.
Third year meltdown bollocks
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Well, since he's still using Smalling and Jones as first team players ahead of the defenders he bought himself I'd say SAF's deadwoods are serving him well. Our player of the year for the past two years is also a SAF deadwood too. And what have Darmian and Blind got to do with anything, he doesn't even play them. Talking about mediocre players you've not include Fellaini who Jose is begging to stay, or Young who Jose says will play 50 games next season. Maybe thats our boards fault too. Two seasons after buying 8 players and spending $300 million the best players in the club are still SAF 'deadwoods'.
That's an absolute failure on his part. In the meantime he's made world class signings like Mkhi whose fecked off, Lindelof who he doesn't trust, Sanchez and Pogba who all look a shadow of themselves. Following your ridiculous logic the Picanto owner has been given the funds to get a Lamborghini to race the Ferrari which he does then is so confused about operating the Lambo so just gives up and uses the Picanto instead.
And the winner of best post is...
That's got to be the dumbest thing I ever heard. City's a smaller club than United, smaller than Liverpool and Arsenal even. Yet they won the league last season. You really believe that Liverpool's expectations aren't any less than United's? If you genuinely believe that Liverpool, City, Arsenal and Chelsea are aiming for 2nd spot every season, you're deluding yourself.
All else being equal?? Football doesn't work like that. Why do you think Wenger finally got the sack?
City are smaller in terms of history but they're not smaller in terms of players, resources, ambition and expectations, all of which are the things that matter here and now.
There is absolutely zero doubt in my mind that the board at Arsenal have lower expectations next year than the board of City or United. If they didn't they'd be idiots as we're operating at an entirely different level to them.
You're speaking as if the top six are in some way equals, when they're not. Arsenal finished closer to the bottom of the table than they did to City and will invest less than them yet again this summer. The only way they could have the same expectations and ambitions as City is if they literally block out reality.
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Arsenal moved to the Emirates because they had ambition and subsequently upped their expectations. Yes, it hasn't worked out but they've sacked Wenger for a reason. Spurs have done the same thing and Chelsea are planning similar, albeit on hold now. Liverpool have invested heavily in the squad because they have ambition. I don't believe they're doing that just to battle for 2nd spot. I really don't understand what your point is.
The point is simple.
You said the expectation of everyone in the top six is to win the title. That isn't true.
Arsenal (using the most extreme example) unequivocally do not expect to win the title next year. They see that they finished closer to the bottom of the table than the top, they see that they won't invest as much as their rivals, they see that they've just hired a new manager, they adjust their expectations as a result. Yet by your logic Emery has failed as much as Mourinho if he doesn't win the league this year, which is clearly nonsense.
You might be sick and tired of it. Doesn't stop it being a distinct possibility. Especially when you look at the Martial situation, Pogba and Bailly... to say the least.
True. A point which is often missed.
What is with Pogba and Bailly exactly?
Are you part of their boardroom meetings? So to use your logic...if City throw another £300m at their squad, we shouldn't expect to win the title? Using Arsenal is an easy cop out. I don't accept for one minute that Liverpool's expectations are no different to ours. Chelsea won the league the season before last (with a new manager, I may add). I also doubt that they were planning for a 3rd or 4th place finish last season. I'm pretty certain that they were aiming to retain the title and push on. Spurs expectations and ambitions will have increased now that they have a bigger stadium.
Martial is the tip of the fecking iceberg dude.
Yeah Spurs not being expected to win the league against two clubs which outspend them by a few hundred millions is the dumbest thing EVER.
The main thing people overlook with this meltdown talk, is that it was at two absolutely circus clubs in Chelsea and Madrid where he had problems.
Both are tough gigs with interference all round.
I'm sure he embraces being able to get on with things here.
Both are tough gigs with interference all round.
I'm sure he embraces being able to get on with things here.
I bring up Martial because it's topical. Everything else that you think indicates a meltdown probably does not indicate one and is probably you supinely accepting the narrative the media has pushed.
You don't need to be on Arsenal's board to know that they don't expect to win the league next year, or that they won't brand Emery a failure when he doesn't, or that the entire football watching world expects less from Arsenal than they do from the Manchester clubs. All you need is an ounce of common sense.
I completely agree that using Arsenal as an example is an easy cop out, they clearly have zero chance of winning the league. Which is exactly why it was silly of you to say they expect to do just that. You're the one who included Arsenal on your arbitrary "clubs I've branded with the same expectations despite them being in wildly different situations" list, not me.
I'd love a pint of what you drink dude.
Athletico Madrid.
Yeah, not like Leicester never did such a thing?
After the previous seasons they had, did you honestly think that Leicester and Chelsea had zero chance of winning the league? It would not surprise me at all if Arsenal won the league. To say they have zero chance, I think you're the one being a bit silly here?
This has to be some disgruntled rival fan (probably LFC, attempting to put Klopp with names like Guardiola/Zidane) who knows that his club will never finish above us in the league, while Jose is here.
LFC (or rival clubs) would be all over Jose if he became available and wanted to come to join them. For example, LFC haven't won a trophy in X* years, so if Jose joined them, they'd be guaranteed to win trophies and become relevant in 2018.
*X - I genuinely can't remember the last time LFC won a trophy.
Yeah. But he was actually pretty good. He combined surprisingly well with attackers on his flank (during his one golden season as RB, that is). And he was so much better than Valencia in purely defensive terms it's not even funny. Valencia knows how to stick to an obvious target, like a dog chasing a bone - beyond that, he's utterly lost. He reads the game as well as a whore reads the bible.
Wes Brown in his prime as a right back would've been a dream player for José.
A joy to watch is it?
To each their own! In my opinion, Brown had a great season in 07/08 at RB and, I may be alone in this which is fine, I wouldn't have swapped him for any other RB I've seen play for us in that team. I genuinely thought he was world class that season.
Van der sar, Rio, Vidic and Evra get all the credit for that amazing defence that season but Brown played a big part in that, too. I don't recall a player ever really getting the better of him and he just slotted in so well. Even though it wasn't at RB, his performance at CB in the home leg against Barca was brilliant. He was just such a good defender when fit. Attacking wise, he wasn't a Cafu or anything, but I thought he did his part and that cross in the final!
So I personally wouldn't have Valencia over Brown, and even though I think De Gea is the better goalkeeper, I don't think I'd have had him over Vds in that team either just because of him being an integral part of what is probably our best defence ever.
For what it's worth, I still think Valencia is a good player so I'm not arguing with you against that. Though his shin crosses are pretty annoying!
Yeah, it's bollocks. Jose is trying very hard to make this work here. He is making changes behind the scenes as well because he recognizes that the pressure at this club is not like the pleasures at other clubs. I think he is the right person for the next few years, by which we should really have a good squad and strong winning mentality again.
Bailly dropped with no explanation after recovery from injury. Pogbas recent interview and end of season performances hint at some degree of being unsettled.
I hope the board dont settle for top 4 as good enough and accept Mourinho for a spell if were nowhere challenging for the title. We need to be challenging and drop the were in transition mantra. We have been in transition for 5 years now, and thats 2-3 years longer than it should have been.
Yeah, so when has Mourinho settled for top 4? We were in a real mess when he took over, got us 2 trophies. Then finished second with an FA cup final, yeah the board will settle for the top 4, but will Jose? 3 windows, if he doesn't get it right, I think he'll walk away himself. But atleast back him up till he is our manager. I thank for feck that internet wasn't there in 89 else Fergie wouldn't have lasted.
Well you have to admit that last season they were probably in the top 2 most attractive team to watch in the Premier league.
United under Mourinho are functional but not exciting, I'd say as an outside observer that is the reason the lots of fans have issues with your manager.
He is clearly a winner but is it worth sacrificing the entertainment for actually winning things. To me it's clearly a similar question but the other way round for Liverpool fans.
Although it does seem to me that Liverpool under Klopp seem to have a clear strategy/path forward, whereas perhaps united under Mourinho don't have so obviously!
But then I'm perhaps a bit biased being a Liverpool fan.
Thoughts anyone?
Read it again. I said the board not Mourinho and I hope he succeeds as it means Utd have succeeded. Where does it say I am not backing him, but if at the end of the season there is no progression then I would want him gone. Lets see what the season brings.
Ok, fair enough. Maybe I was aggressive while looking at your post. Our manager comes under so much scrutiny here that I'm always on the offensive side.
This is Jose Mourinho, he had his failures, I get that but he had his failures after success. Him + United were a match made in heaven, his football is shit? Yeah, people want us to finish 7th or 4th or 5th....like we did under other managers. We have a team who is getting bollocks all over the media, people are getting under us all the time. Then there is Jose, on redcafe, people are questioning his methods, maybe he will fail but till he is OUR manager, I'm supporting him. Because he has done a great job pulling us up when we were really down.
On another note, I hope Martial goes, I hope Pogba too if he is a fanny. I want people like Herrera, Matic, De Gea at our club. People like Jones, Sanchez, Valencia (not first choice) but ya, I want people who are willing to give anything for this shirt. This is what our club is all about, anything else is just a waste of time.
Well as I said this will probably be the defining season. I am interested and hopeful to see what changes the new structure behind Mou bring to the table. McKenna with his attacking skills hopefully transforms the attack to something like the Utd of old. Carrick with his midfield knowhow improves the transition into quick passes into the attack from midfield, and the coach from Inter, cant think of his name, to see how he changes our fitness regime and hopefully cuts down on players getting injured.
Buddy, I get it. But thread has been so bad that I cannot even express. Jose will get it right, we may finish second, lose a CL semifinal or we may win the league or lose a CL final, or we may not win anything. This club is stable as of now, I'd always want that for our club. Short memories, we were in a mess just 2 years before.
I don’t find rival teams attractive. Especially not Liverpool and Man City.
We need proper full backs and wingers. We had our best years when we had wingers, and attacking full backs that could also defend.
Denis Irwin, with Ryan Giggs, in front of him.
Gary Neville, with Beckham, and then Ronaldo, in front of him.
Those were the years and the football was magic.
Denis Irwin, with Ryan Giggs, in front of him.
Gary Neville, with Beckham, and then Ronaldo, in front of him.
Those were the years and the football was magic.
In total agreement. I think that In a 4 2 3 1 if the wide players in the 3 cut inside then without wing backs who can cross and get forward you lose width and 2 banks of 4 keep you out quite easily, as we have seen a lot.
I think the problem that has led to this is that for 3 years our recruitment was incredibly poor. Moyes signed Fellaini and Mata. Van Gaal moaned about not having any wingbacks, converted Valencia and Young and then didn't sign anyone apart from Darmian for that position, I think Shaw came in in the summer Moyes left, Signed by the board to stop others having him but before we had a new manager. Baffling. I still don't see why we can't play Sanchez right wing and Martial on the left wing? I know we don't seem to but why?
I do think we will address the wing backs. Maybe we are scouting the World Cup before signing somebody? There's a long way to go before the season starts.
I think we all have a dream team in mind but let's remember that it isn't Fifa, we can't just sign anyone and we do have to adhere to wage and transfer budgets and ffp and all of that stuff, and we can't start the new season with a new back 4 and Fred, and a new right winger, in the side and expect to play like a cohesive unit.
I also acknowedge that we can't start with Valencia and Young, and with Mata right wing. I just trust that between manager and board they will sort it for next season. Let's complain later if they don't. I personally think that comments like the mourinho '50 games for Young' comment should be translated as a 'you better sign me a left back' to the board comment.
Exactly, good wingers and attacking fullbacks can open up the stubborn defences that we don't seem to be doing @Jezpeza
That's my feeling. Whenever I watch teams play us with 10 men behind the ball like West Brom did and Brighton etc last season, we need to commit more player wide and stretch the width of the pitch. We just seemed to pass sideways all the time. Watching our current fullbacks, in the instance of Young he always seems to have to stop and then cut back inside to cross right footed which looses the momentum of attack. Valencia seems to always fee like he's gone to far forwards and instead of driving to the byline and crossing he seems to stop and pass it back into central midfield or to a center back. I just don't see what we can change next season without changing both players, I really don't, which I'm sure Woodward and Mourinho will change. If not, I can't see this season being different to last. I'm not sure that is a meltdown but we seem tactically impinged at the moment by two positions.
I feel I have a fairly good knowledge on football both in the UK and in Europe. Admittingly I don’t play FM but I had not heard about Dalot until we signed him.
Now all of a sudden a load of United fans keep suggesting he’s going to be the best RB in the world. I can’t see how this many people have seen a player play when he only has 7 appearances for Porto. It’s still a massive gamble and cements we will be using Valencia as our first team RB for the season.
I believe if Jose was in a position to spend £170m more than the next best side he could probably match what Guardiola has done.
He nearly did it with Chelsea in his first season and did it with Real Madrid outscoring one of the best Barcelona teams of all time.
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