Chelsea just don't have the right profile of players in certain areas for his system. Saw RLC in the wider areas with James which is ridiculous. Sterling as good he is imo Chelsea should have targeted more of a clinical inside forward. They lack goalscorers. I don't think the credibility of the manager can be doubted however. Tuchel has proven himself at the highest level. There's no good managers on the sidelines realistically all the best managers are already in the league.
Thomas Tuchel | Gone to & from Bayern (In Summer)
- Thread starter Bastian
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Imagine picking Gallagher over Gilmour in a double pivot in a possession based team.
Awful choice.
Awful choice.
It seems like he's gotten progressively worse. From winning the CL and unironically getting compared to Pep and Klopp to this.
I'm not entirely sure they're better than us tbh.
It seems like he peaked there first few months in the job. Last season was okay I guess (3rd place and few cup finals lost on penalties) but nothing special and we'll see where it goes this season.
Gallagher looked awful playing in the deeper midfield role, total fish out of water stuff
I've never been a massive fan of Tuchel but him claiming Chelsea were the better team is pure sore loser stuff 
He needs to hope he can get another defender in because Rudiger looks a big loss. His Chelsea team has never been particularly dynamic but they've always been built on solid defensive foundations. Koulibaly has looked unconvincing so far - he wasn't really at the races against Everton (despite the clean sheet) and got badly exposed today.
He needs to hope he can get another defender in because Rudiger looks a big loss. His Chelsea team has never been particularly dynamic but they've always been built on solid defensive foundations. Koulibaly has looked unconvincing so far - he wasn't really at the races against Everton (despite the clean sheet) and got badly exposed today.
Is Boehly playing football manager at the moment? Some of the deals just feel weird.
We say our transfer policy is horrible just look at Chelsea.
Lukaku, Warner and Havertz all signed in a much heralded high priced swoop. Former two fairly average and binned. Havertz has it all to do as well.
Sterling every chance of going the same way. Silly fee for Cuccurella.
Plus being linked for the likes of Fofana at outrageous prices.
Lukaku, Warner and Havertz all signed in a much heralded high priced swoop. Former two fairly average and binned. Havertz has it all to do as well.
Sterling every chance of going the same way. Silly fee for Cuccurella.
Plus being linked for the likes of Fofana at outrageous prices.
Koulibali, Sterling or Cucarella? Which ones seem weird?
Maybe you mean the young players we've spent a lot on I guess but the first team deals genuinely don't feel weird to me.
My surprise about Tuchel was seing him use Werner so poorly. Werner is not a striker as he deployed him, he is very good coming deep, playing between the lines or drifting left to cause an overload. He was never a goal machine in his whole career, he was always more a creative forward that if you wanted a free flow attack he would provide you with options.
Everyone is paying outrageous prices these days, not only Chelsea.
The idiot is no the one asking, but the one paying.
Chelsea's issue is still finding a stable balance between defense and midfield and that is on the manager.
Werner mostly played as the left-sided forward behind Lukaku or Havertz though? Lampard often played him up front but Tuchel rarely did.
Whichever position he played he was overall quite decent in his first season despite the lack of goals, but last season even his all-round play went downhill. Maybe it was a system problem, maybe it was a confidence issue or perhaps even a little bit of both but I don't think it was the wrong decision to move him on.
He's much better suited to the Bundesliga anyway, more room to run behind defenders there. Was never a good fit for a possession-based team, especially in the PL where most teams defend deep.
Pretty much confidence issue, he also had rough patches at Leipzig. But he's very good at creating or helping to overload the opposition, more than goalscoring. The problem is they expected more goalscoring numbers than he could actually offer.
I don't think there is a more suited to other leagues stuff. Ruben Neves could barely make it to the bench on Porto's squad (he lacked intensity) and suddenly he's one of the most valuable players at EPL. Football is a strange world if you try to reason why some players succeed or fail.
And it didn't surprise me either. I knew by watching him at Palace last season.
Tuchel loves playing players out of position.
Tuchel rarely used him as a striker.
Werner scored 78 goals in 127 Bundesliga games for Leipzig, he got 28 in 34 in his last season!
He certainly was a goal machine for Leipzig!
His record at Stuttgart was much lower (13 goals in 95 games)
I think Werner was just one of those "system" players, and Leipzig were the perfect fit for him.
I expressed myself badly, sorry: he is a striker/forward, but he requires a bit of free roaming in order to create space and get space. If he's playing too focused on one position, he will not show his strengths. In RBL in the "paper" he was the main striker, but you would see him a lot of times drifting left or dropping deep causing the opposition a lot of difficulties.
Maybe as others said, he might be a victim of being too acostumed to a determined system. When he needs to do a more "specialized" role, he will not deliver.
As Tuchel is demanding on having tactically disciplined players on the field, that's probably it didn't work.
Will be interesting to see Boehly’s temperament. Will he favor stability or adopt Roman’s chop and change of managers? If we use the Dodgers (Boehly’s other team) as a reference, their manager has job security. But they win consistently every year.
It’s also just 3 games into this era, and it takes time RLC build a winning team. There were stories about them extending Tuchel’s contract last week, so unless the wheels completely come off this season, I think that’s what’s going to happen. We’ll be sat in 3rd or something by November and Tuchel will probably sign that extension.
Prime Barcelona could’ve lost to Leeds yesterday, they were absolutely phenomenal, they absolutely swarmed Chelsea.
I don’t care how good you are, if you don’t get a second on the ball in midfield for the entire match you are going to seriously struggle.
I thought Leeds were exceptional yesterday, if they can keep that kind of intensity for a season they are going places.
The Dodgers are not a good reference point. Baseball managers have almost no input on player acquisition and development whatsoever, and outcomes are almost entirely determined by individual player quality and not teamwork and tactics as the interactions between players is much more discrete and far less fluid. The manager doesn't have a huge impact on how well a team performs, and the parameters for most of the decisions they make are set very rigidly by upper management in the last 20 years or so.
As a result, baseball management is largely about man management, so managers are typically sacked only in cases when they fail at man management with a significant portion of the team, or if upper management needs a scapegoat for the team "not performing well", i.e. having a poor lineup.
They weren't just stories, it was even confirmed by Tuchel on the club's official website just two days ago that talks over a new deal have begun:
https://www.chelseafc.com/en/news/article/tuchel-confirms-contract-extension-talks
No matter how horrible the Leeds game was I can't see the plan changing. It's been reported constantly over the last months that Boehly and his team have been very impressed by Tuchel and are planning for him to stay long-term with full backing. I think it would take a proper meltdown from Tuchel and the team sliding down the table for them to lose confidence in him. Not saying a meltdown is not a possibility of course, but the most likely scenario is like you said that we will be in a battle for top-4 and Tuchel will sign that extension.
Over the last six months or so there have been some concerns over the performances but for now Tuchel has my full backing, for what it's worth. He's earned himself enough credit in the bank for some dips in performance and the chance to try and build something special at the club. It's clear his team building is nowhere near being done and probably still needs a few new starting quality players to get competitive (a minimum of one new CB this year and a Silva replacement next season, a leading midfielder and a good striker who fits his system).
I say Boehly had been playing football manager because he didn’t retain the previous regime’s football operation, which imho was excellent. For all the shit Marina used to get, she was competent in getting players in and exccellent at getting good prices for outgoings. It seems like that transition hasn’t been smooth and he’s stepped in to make some deals himself (Cucurella, Chukwuemeka, some of the players that went to Barcelona) etc.
Marina and Cech were asked to stay but said no.
We've signed 3 first teamers, all of whom are decent.
We've spunked a lot on young players but that's not Boehly playing football manager (you honestly think he'd heard of them?), he's signed off on advice from people in the club.
The new regime took over and had to deal with the fallout from Romans last year. We had half a defence and a moany Lukaku to deal with. I think getting quickly shot of Rom was a good call, I think getting Sterling was a good call, getting Cucerella was a good call given his flexibility and our needs at centre back and flowing Chilwells injury. Also Koulibaly looks a good signing.
We're also not done.
Where do you see the next area to strengthen? Attack is the obvious one for me, but defense looks out of sorts and with all the injuries to Kante and Kovacic midfield could use some freshening up.
Marina was never going to stay long-term under the new regime though. She had gotten used to being the top dog at pretty much everything in running the club and was never going to accept a smaller role under the new leadership. It's only natural that the people who were willing to invest north of £4bn to buy and run the club wanted to get involved in the decision making at the top.
I believe the initial plan was for her to stay till the end of the transfer window before moving on but one of the issues that accelerated her and Cech's departure was the debate on what to do with Lukaku. Marina and Cech wanted to walk over Tuchel and force him to keep Lukaku because the financial terms in his departure made them look bad. Tuchel on the other hand wanted to get rid of him ASAP and Boehly backed him. Marina and Cech would also never have admitted their mistake on bringing in Werner and a permanent move away would have been out of the question at the prices being offered.
While there may be some initial growing pains under the new ownership group, overall I'd say a clean break from all involved with the Abramovich regime was a good idea for long-term development. We just need to somehow wobble over the finishing line this transfer window by getting a couple more new faces in and then Boehly can start preparing for the future under a new sporting leadership.
Boehly has already discussed a DoF role with Michael Edwards formerly of Liverpool, who would have been the perfect appointment IMO, but he reportedly wanted to take a break from the game and declined the offer. As long as a competent appointment is made the days of Boehly 'playing football manager' will soon be over. If Boehly and the rest of his team are serious about fully backing Tuchel for long-term future, he should definitely be consulted in the decision making for the DoF appointment as well.
We struggle for creativity, the answer is Anthony Gordan for £50M, jesus christ.
We need a good director of football quickly.
We need a good director of football quickly.
Have there even been any fresh links to Gordon? I haven't seen anything since early last week. For now it's seems to be all about bringing in Fofana and Aubameyang.
Whether Gordon and maybe even a midfielder are targeted once the CB and striker options are sorted out remains to be seen.
Nothing really new but we haven't been linked to any new attackers.
Thats a big worry. Not really keen on Aubameyang either.
This team was absolutely firing on all cylinders with the Kante / Werner / Havertz run and gun attack. At the point that Tuschel took over, they were the best team in all 3 competitions and only spared an FA Cup win from an out of this world defensive display by Leicester. They then seem to take to heart the Werner criticism even though what he was giving them in terms of creating chances far outweighed his incompetency in front of goal. That ignited the Lukaku signing which made zero sense given the way they were set up to attack previously and they've kind of not been the same since. If you have a system that perfectly compliments your best player (Kante) it's pretty illogical to try and change that system unless lots of players around him are ageing.
Yep, that's it. I was trying to remember where I'd read it. Unless something truly drastic happens, Tuchel will sign an extension. I do think he needs to move away from the back 3 eventually. Reading between the lines on some of his comments recently, it sounds like he has the team playing in this way to protect the shortcomings of a couple of players (I think it's Thiago Silva and Jorginho) and therefore other players will be forced out of position to accommodate the players whose flaws Tuchel is desperate to hide.
He himself is the one who is unreliable. You can't have a system built around a player who cannot be relied upon to be play 3 consecutive games.
You're talking something that happened 18 months ago. Players have declined, suffered injuries etc since then. It's not the same. I've talked about Kante above, Kovacic is the same as him, unreliable due to constant injuries. Silva is 2 years older, and showed signs of edging closer to the dreaded cliff last season. We had flying wingbacks back then, we had to do without them for most of last season. 18 months is a long time in football and a lot has happened since that 20/21 season.
Yeah course, I'm sure you know the details of the team structure way more than me. I do think your club absolutely caved in on the Werner criticism though, he had become a national joke even though if you watched the games he was still causing havoc with his play and creating chances endlessly.
I'm not sure I agree with that. Werner's strengths and weaknesses were clear for all to see. He made the team better in some aspects but held us back in other ways. What's the use in creating chances galore if the majority fall to Werner who seemed to find new creative ways to miss sitters every week. I doubt Tuchel was up all night reading twitter banter about Werner when he started leaving him on the bench.
Appreciate the thoughtful response. As a casual observer I might have missed some of the nuances you’ve highlighted above
Sayros don't like Pochettino. All managers that has gone to psg has failed. Only tuchel got them to the final of the competition that matters with Pochettino coming next. Let see how far galtier can get them. Maybe he will final be the one that gives them champion league glory
Still remember the relentless fawning over him on here at the start of his spell.