Thoughts on Tuchel as a potential United manager?

[11101]

Crossed out the ones you can safely dismiss as irrelevant to the discussion. One horse leagues or farmers leagues, or playing opponents from them. You or I could win most of those.

Oh sure, sure...

I mean he's only won 1x German league, 1x German Cup, 2x French league, 1x French Cup, 1x French League Cup, 2x French Supercup, 1x Champions League, 1x Club World Cup, 1x Supercup.

But what has he done lately to prove that he could be the manager of our shambles of a club??

Amiright??

So we are left with:

1x German League
He took a team that had won the last 10 leagues in a row and managed to run it down to goal difference on the last day of the season. Then he has somehow, miraculously, managed to lose it this season.

1x Champions League
So we are left with this. He won it, fair enough, but with a team that somebody else built. Like Roberto Di Matteo. Should we hire him too?

How we think this guy is going to come in and rebuild this club is beyond me. If he looked more like Sam Allardyce than Jurgen Klopp nobody would give him a second thought.

 

[Wilt]

Anyone but tuchel, good manager but not what we need right now.

Yeah, we don’t need a good manager

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Oh sure, sure...

I mean he's only won 1x German league, 1x German Cup, 2x French league, 1x French Cup, 1x French League Cup, 2x French Supercup, 1x Champions League, 1x Club World Cup, 1x Supercup.

But what has he done lately to prove that he could be the manager of our shambles of a club??

Amiright??

The champions league is objectively impressive the rest are debatable given how close he was to losing, and how singly dominant PSG are of Ligue 1.

Put Ten Hag into both clubs and there is a reasonable argument he does just as well if not better.

fecking hell, listing the Bundesliga as Bayern manager & Ligue 1 + a bunch of French cups as PSG manager as some noticeable achievements, are you being serious man? Every single manager at both clubs over the past decade has titles, they are freebies.
Galtier got himself a ligue 1 title in 2023, he now manages in the Qatari league.
Kovač has as many Bundesliga titles as Tuchel.

And don’t get me started on the bloody super cup (Villareal) or WCC (Palmeiras) man

He’s left every club since Mainz in a worse state season on season, his two points total seasons at Bayern have been the worst of the past decade. In two full seasons at the second easiest club job in Europe, he needed a last day capitulation from Dortmund to even scrape out with one title.

There’s one title in there which stands out and it’s the CL, but none of us would want Di Matteo here.

Agree broadly.

Tuchel is a good manager but I’m not entirely convinced he’s what we need if we’re looking to develop.

 

[spiriticon]

Anyone but tuchel, good manager but not what we need right now.

Actually he's exactly what we need right now. Whether or not he's what we need in 2 years time, that is another question.

 

[evil_geko]

So we are left with this. He won it, fair enough, but with a team that somebody else built. Like Roberto Di Matteo. Should we hire him too?

How we think this guy is going to come in and rebuild this club is beyond me. If he looked more like Sam Allardyce than Jurgen Klopp nobody would give him a second thought.

Who cares about this? No one expects him personally to rebuild anything here. Our current structure will care about transfers and wants a manager who doesn't get involved in transfers much and only coaches. He should come to just stabilize the team during the rebuild.

 

[stefan92]

Crossed out the ones you can safely dismiss as irrelevant to the discussion. One horse leagues or farmers leagues, or playing opponents from them. You or I could win most of those.



So we are left with:

1x German League
He took a team that had won the last 10 leagues in a row and managed to run it down to goal difference on the last day of the season. Then he has somehow, miraculously, managed to lose it this season.

1x Champions League
So we are left with this. He won it, fair enough, but with a team that somebody else built. Like Roberto Di Matteo. Should we hire him too?

How we think this guy is going to come in and rebuild this club is beyond me. If he looked more like Sam Allardyce than Jurgen Klopp nobody would give him a second thought.

I do kind of get your logic to dismiss titles won in one-horse leagues. But dismissing the cup he won with Dortmund (which included beating Bayern in the semifinal), but not the league with Bayern is stupid. So according to you Bayern are farmers. I don't think you seriously think that.

 

[Wilt]

fecking hell, listing the Bundesliga as Bayern manager & Ligue 1 + a bunch of French cups as PSG manager as some noticeable achievements, are you being serious man? Every single manager at both clubs over the past decade has titles, they are freebies.
Galtier got himself a ligue 1 title in 2023, he now manages in the Qatari league.
Kovač has as many Bundesliga titles as Tuchel.

And don’t get me started on the bloody super cup (Villareal) or WCC (Palmeiras) man

He’s left every club since Mainz in a worse state season on season, his two points total seasons at Bayern have been the worst of the past decade. In two full seasons at the second easiest club job in Europe, he needed a last day capitulation from Dortmund to even scrape out with one title.

There’s one title in there which stands out and it’s the CL, but none of us would want Di Matteo here.

Would you prefer Southgate?

 

[Rojofiam]

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[Rojofiam]

Surely no ones actually reactionary enough to change their opinion after last night?

Are you new here?

 

[11101]

I do kind of get your logic to dismiss titles won in one-horse leagues. But dismissing the cup he won with Dortmund (which included beating Bayern in the semifinal), but not the league with Bayern is stupid. So according to you Bayern are farmers. I don't think you seriously think that.

Well I think you can dismiss the German League too but it was worth pointing out he took the team which won 10 titles in a row and very nearly lost it, and then actually has lost it this season.

I see very little in his career that suggests he's a top manager. He has padded his CV with lots of easy jobs, had the usual new manager bounce at Chelsea, and even then never lasts more than a year or two. The Dutch league is not great either but at least there is competition and Ten Hag did build a very good team there.

 

[Ish]

Yes, he was off the field. Bayern were down to 10 when the first goal was scored. A GK error while down to 10 men - Tuchel’s fault?? This place gets silly sometimes

I hear ya around the GK error - can’t blame a manager for that. Even then though, I felt his subs were poor, overall. There was every chance that Real would/could equalise and he’s taken off every threat he had on the field. What would have happened with another 30 mins of extra time, in that event? Unless of course there might have been some injuries or fatigue were not aware about. To his credit though, I felt like none of Kane, Musiala or Sane had particular good games anyway.

 

[VP89]

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Fair play on this. I retract the comments at the Kane sub.

 

[Judas]

Are you new here?

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

fecking hell, listing the Bundesliga as Bayern manager & Ligue 1 + a bunch of French cups as PSG manager as some noticeable achievements, are you being serious man? Every single manager at both clubs over the past decade has titles, they are freebies.
Galtier got himself a ligue 1 title in 2023, he now manages in the Qatari league.
Kovač has as many Bundesliga titles as Tuchel.

And don’t get me started on the bloody super cup (Villareal) or WCC (Palmeiras) man

He’s left every club since Mainz in a worse state season on season, his two points total seasons at Bayern have been the worst of the past decade. In two full seasons at the second easiest club job in Europe, he needed a last day capitulation from Dortmund to even scrape out with one title.

There’s one title in there which stands out and it’s the CL, but none of us would want Di Matteo here.

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on the internet. Fair play.

16/17 season:

Dortmund win The DFB-Pokal and finish 3rd (64 points). Tuchel leaves and joins PSG a year later.

They finish 4th (54 points) and win zero trophies the following season.

19/20 season:

PSG win all four domestic trophies and finish as runners-up in The CL. He's the only PSG manager to have reached a CL final. This is the best season PSG have ever had. 1 win away from a full sweep.

Tuchel leaves in late December of the 20/21 season and joins Chelsea shortly after leaving. He wins The CL with Chelsea, while Poch loses out on a Ligue 1 title after replacing Tuchel.

21/22 season:

Chelsea finish 3rd (74 points) and reach two domestic cup finals.

He has a falling out with Boehly and is sacked after 6 PL games. 10 of Chelsea's 44 points that season were under Tuchel. 10/18 points.

Potter and Lampard only achieve 34 points from 32 PL games. 34/96 points.

 

[Juicy Juiced]

Bad game from him last night, Neuer keep Bayern in the game till the mistake. Put any other keeper and it woulf be easily 3 or 4 to 0 for Madrid.
But beggars cant be a choosers, he is 10 better that bauld moron so I would mind him here for season or two.

 

[Maurice Setters Training]

I like him as a pure coach, leaving INEOS’ technical staff (like Wilcox) to do most of the recruitment and the bulk of the rebuilding.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Would you prefer Southgate?

Absolutely not, neither would fill me with any confidence. Given a choice of the two I’m sure most of us would pick the German.

 

[hobbers]

People literally cry about current and previous managers getting too much say in building the squad. The whole point of getting a competent short term manager in is to stop the rot while leaving Ashworth and co time to build the squad. Tuchel might get us back into the CL and winning more cups in the meantime. But it should be his eventual replacement properly benefitting.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've read on the internet. Fair play.

16/17 season:

Dortmund win The DFB-Pokal and finish 3rd (64 points). Tuchel leaves and joins PSG a year later.

They finish 4th (54 points) and win zero trophies the following season.

19/20 season:

PSG win all four domestic trophies and finish as runners-up in The CL. He's the only PSG manager to have reached a CL final. This is the best season PSG have ever had. 1 win away from a full sweep.

Tuchel leaves in late December of the 20/21 season and joins Chelsea shortly after leaving. He wins The CL with Chelsea, while Poch loses out on a Ligue 1 title after replacing Tuchel.

21/22 season:

Chelsea finish 3rd (74 points) and reach two domestic cup finals.

He has a falling out with Boehly and is sacked after 6 PL games. 10 of Chelsea's 44 points that season were under Tuchel. 10/18 points.

Potter and Lampard only achieve 34 points from 32 PL games. 34/96 points.

So you’re gonna blame the managers who took over mid season after he got sacked for being shite & having them in a tricky position ? Ha ha.

As for Dortmund, he took over Klopp’s team, got them a very impressive 78 points, then took them onto a massive drop-off with just 64 points the following season. It’s the story of his career, he starts well, then gets progressively shitter, and it’s black & white too.

What next, it was Ragnick and not Ole who was at fault in 2021/22?

 

[RoyH1]

Anyone but tuchel, good manager but not what we need right now.

But that’s the problem, isn’t it? It cannot be anyone. Southgate would be worse and some of the other names linked to us are meh at best.
It’s not that anyone thinks that Tuchel is a home run hire. He’s just one of the more experienced and respected names of those that are available.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

I like him as a pure coach, leaving INEOS’ technical staff (like Wilcox) to do most of the recruitment and the bulk of the rebuilding.

He generally gets the best out of players.

Aubameyang had the most prolific spell of his career under Tuchel
Mkhitayran had the best season of his career under Tuchel
Ousmane Dembélé had one of the best seasons (16/17) of his career under Tuchel
di María thrived under him at PSG
Neymar played his best football at PSG under him
Reece James played his best football at Chelsea under him
He improved Rüdiger a lot

Etc.

 

[Shinjch]

People literally cry about current and previous managers getting too much say in building the squad. The whole point of getting a competent short term manager in is to stop the rot while leaving Ashworth and co time to build the squad. Tuchel might get us back into the CL and winning more cups in the meantime. But it should be his eventual replacement properly benefitting.

Yea, the new manager being able to handle a squad transition to build towards the future is a key point. Tuchel doesn't seem like that guy though, if he doesn't get what he wants to compete then it is likely that the toys go out of the pram. Going by his previous work anyway.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

He generally gets the best out of players.

Aubameyang had the most prolific spell of his career under Tuchel
Mkhitayran had the best season of his career under Tuchel
Ousmane Dembélé had one of the best seasons (16/17) of his career under Tuchel
di María thrived under him at PSG
Neymar played his best football at PSG under him
Reece James played his best football at Chelsea under him
He improved Rüdiger a lot

Etc.

Kimmich had the worst spell of his career under him.
Koulibally the same.

I could carry on, especially with a bunch of Bayern players, but cherry picking like this is daft.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

So you’re gonna blame the managers who took over mid season after he got sacked for being shite & having them in a tricky position ? Ha ha.

As for Dortmund, he took over Klopp’s team, got them a very impressive 78 points, then took them onto a massive drop-off with just 64 points the following season. It’s the story of his career, he starts well, then gets progressively shitter, and it’s black & white too.

What next, it was Ragnick and not Ole who was at fault in 2021/22?

Hrm? Poch is the one who blew the title for PSG with unacceptable results down the stretch against terrible teams. And it was very very obviously not his fault he got sacked by Chelsea; blaming him for our shitshow of a season last year would be ludicrous

 

[hobbers]

It doesnt have to be Tuchel, but with the squad in such a mess right now I'd much rather get someone competent but 'expendable' like him in, than take another massive risk on a potential future great like Iraola or McKenna.

Wouldnt be fair to get in a young up coming manager with the squad in this state, it'd ruin them before they get a fair crack.

Tuchel, Zidane, Flick, Luis Enrique, maybe even Thomas Frank. Someone with charisma and personality and a bit of nous and pragmatism which we've been sorely lacking under ETH.

 

[stefan92]

Well I think you can dismiss the German League too but it was worth pointing out he took the team which won 10 titles in a row and very nearly lost it, and then actually has lost it this season.

My point was more that you can't dismiss the cup he won against the team winning 10 titles in a row.

 

[Shinjch]

It doesnt have to be Tuchel, but with the squad in such a mess right now I'd much rather get someone competent but 'expendable' like him in, than take another massive risk on a potential future great like Iraola or McKenna.

Wouldnt be fair to get in a young up coming manager with the squad in this state, it'd ruin them before they get a fair crack.

Tuchel, Zidane, Flick, Luis Enrique, maybe even Thomas Frank. Someone with charisma and personality and a bit of nous and pragmatism which we've been sorely lacking under ETH.

Yea, if we could get Luis Enrique then I think he could be a good option, and would give the players a proper fright too. Zidane too, but think he is much more unlikely to get on board than Enrique. At the moment I don't have much faith that we will get much fixed in the short term though, which is a sad indictment on the club.

Feels in this thread there a few that are all in on Tuchel before he is even the leading candidate, let alone the manager.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

So you’re gonna blame the managers who took over mid season after he got sacked for being shite & having them in a tricky position ? Ha ha.

As for Dortmund, he took over Klopp’s team, got them a very impressive 78 points, then took them onto a massive drop-off with just 64 points the following season. It’s the story of his career, he starts well, then gets progressively shitter, and it’s black & white too.

What next, it was Ragnick and not Ole who was at fault in 2021/22?

You are more deluded than some of the ten Hag in crow.d Fair play. He didn't leave them in a tricky position.

Dortmund finished 3rd and won a trophy. The next manager didn't inherit a mess.

He left PSG in good condition. Top of their CL group and took 35 points out of 51 compared to Lille's 36 points. All still to play for. Tuchel drew 0-0 with Lille away, while Poch lost 1-0 at home in the reverse fixture. That loss ultimately cost them the title, as Lille won Ligue 1 by a point.

Chelsea were made a mess by Boehly. Chelsea could have been in a relegation battle if it hadn't been for Tuchel securing those 10 points early on.

Eh, Dortmund sold Hummels, Gündoğan and Mkhitaryan after finishing 2nd. Of course they weren't going to better 78 points. Use some common sense.

You have a massive agenda against Tuchel. That's obvious. Not wanting him at United is fair enough, but you're not being honest with your assessment.

I think Tuchel deserces criticism for how his Bayern stint has gone overall.

 

[spiriticon]

Yea, if we could get Luis Enrique then I think he could be a good option, and would give the players a proper fright too. Zidane too, but think he is much more unlikely to get on board than Enrique. At the moment I don't have much faith that we will get much fixed in the short term though, which is a sad indictment on the club.

Feels in this thread there a few that are all in on Tuchel before he is even the leading candidate, let alone the manager.

I think people are only really focusing on the ones who are available and are strongly linked to the club, like Southgate, Potter and more recently Tuchel. It doesn't mean that they are the number 1 choice.

I personally want Don Carlo. But the man is currently too busy winning yet another League and Champion's League.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

Kimmich had the worst spell of his career under him.
Koulibally the same.

I could carry on, especially with a bunch of Bayern players, but cherry picking like this is daft.

You don't even try to hide it.

Kimmich doesn't have the legs to play in a midfield pivot anymore. Tuchel found a way to keep him in the side by moving him to RB where he played earlier in his career. He's done well in that role.

Koulibaly. That's definitely not cherry picking. You are daft.

 

[stefan92]

Kimmich doesn't have the legs to play in a midfield pivot anymore. Tuchel found a way to keep him in the side by moving him to RB where he played earlier in his career. He's done well in that role.

I don't think Kimmich legs are his problem. He is expected by everyone, especially by himself, to be THE leader of Bayern and Germany. He dealt badly with that pressure by trying to do everything. Nobody has the legs to do that, but by fielding him in CM he is tempted to try it.

Shifting him to RB and limiting his role seems to be a good move as he seems to play more focused there than in CM at the moment.

 

[Ubik]

It doesnt have to be Tuchel, but with the squad in such a mess right now I'd much rather get someone competent but 'expendable' like him in, than take another massive risk on a potential future great like Iraola or McKenna.

Wouldnt be fair to get in a young up coming manager with the squad in this state, it'd ruin them before they get a fair crack.

Tuchel, Zidane, Flick, Luis Enrique, maybe even Thomas Frank. Someone with charisma and personality and a bit of nous and pragmatism which we've been sorely lacking under ETH.

I'd argue now is the perfect time for a younger one with promise - expectations are deathly low, we have the new lot saying they want to implement a particular style of play with a focus on long-term success, and an expectation of higher squad turnover with younger players coming in. I don't want another short-termist, do-whatever-it-takes-to-make-top-four episode.

 

[Lyng]

Kimmich had the worst spell of his career under him.
Koulibally the same.

I could carry on, especially with a bunch of Bayern players, but cherry picking like this is daft.

Give your head a massive wobble. Koulibally was absolutely awful before Tuchel.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

I don't think Kimmich legs are his problem. He is expected by everyone, especially by himself, to be THE leader of Bayern and Germany. He dealt badly with that pressure by trying to do everything. Nobody has the legs to do that, but by fielding him in CM he is tempted to try it.

Shifting him to RB and limiting his role seems to be a good move as he seems to play more focused there than in CM at the moment.

The Goretzka and Kimmich pivot was incredible during the 19/20 season under Flick. Really dynamic.

It just doesn't work anymore. Had Bayern signed Palhinha, I think Tuchel would have paired him with Kimmich.

Goretzka isn't the player he used to be. He's had a lot of small injuries over the past few years, which are likely a factor.

Kimmich is a bit like Kroos. You need to get legs around him. Real have a lot of athletic and energetic midfielders to counter his lack of athleticism. Both Kroos and Kimmich are wonderful technicians.

 

[Shinjch]

I think people are only really focusing on the ones who are available and are strongly linked to the club, like Southgate, Potter and more recently Tuchel. It doesn't mean that they are the number 1 choice.

I personally want Don Carlo. But the man is currently too busy winning yet another League and Champion's League.

Yea, I just thought it was telling how defensive some posters got last night at criticism towards their preferred candidate. There is no reason to be defensive of them before they are even in the door.

 

[El Jefe]

Too much is being made of the subs, I think it would be more valid if the game went to extra time.

Many coaches have made such subs and closed out the game. Neuer’s error really was the killer and RM have shown once you give them any bit of hope they close the deal. That second goal was inevitable once they got the first no matter if Kane was on the pitch or not, they’ve done it too many times.

As I said, if it went to ET and they had to play 30mins with no Kane or Musiala fair enough but it didn’t even get to that.

 

[Salford_Red83]

It doesnt have to be Tuchel, but with the squad in such a mess right now I'd much rather get someone competent but 'expendable' like him in, than take another massive risk on a potential future great like Iraola or McKenna.

Wouldnt be fair to get in a young up coming manager with the squad in this state, it'd ruin them before they get a fair crack.

Tuchel, Zidane, Flick, Luis Enrique, maybe even Thomas Frank. Someone with charisma and personality and a bit of nous and pragmatism which we've been sorely lacking under ETH.

This is my general thought too.

 

[pcaming]

He is the type of coach we need right now. He's adaptable, will sort out the atrocious defending and create a stable system. He will level up our possession game (not to the level of Pep/De Zerbi), but just enough (incl recruitment) that his eventual replacement can be a really modern coach, and not have a crazy transition period.

Then there's the added benefit that he is actually a winner. He's not going to be happy with just top 4, despite our deficiencies and if he doesn't grow to hate the board, as he tends to do, there's no real reason he can't stay longer.

Out of every manager we've been linked with, he is the by far the best and safest choice.

 

[House Mkhitaryan]

Would definitely like to get him in, especially based on reported likely alternatives (ETH, Southgate, Potter, etc.).

 

[TrebleChamp99]