Titanic tourist submersible missing | Sub's debris found - crew "have been lost"

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Any father that would drag his terrified child on an death trap journey purely for their own niche interests is a scumbag.

Well, he paid £250k for him...

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Isn’t that virtue signalling?

You got the joke, yay.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

What exactly happens in a catastrophic implosion?

The opposite of what happens in a catastrophic explosion.

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

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[wr8_utd]

As per the Wall Street Journal

The Navy began listening for the Titan almost as soon as the sub lost communications, according to a U.S. defense official. Shortly after its disappearance, the U.S. system detected what it suspected was the sound of an implosion near the debris site discovered Thursday and reported its findings to the commander on site, U.S. defense officials said.

“The U.S. Navy conducted an analysis of acoustic data and detected an anomaly consistent with an implosion or explosion in the general vicinity of where the Titan submersible was operating when communications were lost,” a senior U.S. Navy official told The Wall Street Journal in a statement. “While not definitive, this information was immediately shared with the Incident Commander to assist with the ongoing search and rescue mission.”

The Navy asked that the specific system used not be named, citing national security concerns.

If true, I think we can now safely say that the implosion happened very early on Sunday and that they didn't even spend a day in the vessel before it did finally implode.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The recklessness doesn't really come in to it for me. If a poor person dies doing something needlessly dangerous I will likely mourn them. If a billionaire dies in a perfectly ordinary way I likely won't.

What’s the annual income tipping point between mourning and not giving a shit? Asking for a friend.

 

[Ajr]

So the reason it lost contact was because it exploded?

Surely they wouldn't have felt anything really?

 

[DOTA]

What’s the annual income tipping point between mourning and not giving a shit? Asking for a friend.

I imagine it varies greatly depending on what side of bed I woke up on that day.

 

[Carolina Red]

Surely they wouldn't have felt anything really?

Correct. Unlikely they’d have registered it at all.

 

[11101]

All the mentions of their wealth shows how fecking bitter and twisted some people are. Mostly morons on social media. 5 people died and 4 families are without their father/husband/son/brother etc. What they all did for a living is not relevant.

 

[Plant0x84]

So the reason it lost contact was because it exploded?

Surely they wouldn't have felt anything really?

Imploded. Like exploded but inward, not outward. They would have basically been crushed by the pressure of the water at that depth.

 

[Shane88]

So the reason it lost contact was because it exploded?

Surely they wouldn't have felt anything really?

Some expert said it would've been 2 nanoseconds before they were presumably mist so as grim as it sounds, that's the best way to go if you're at the bottom of the ocean rather than being stuck with 4 others in a Pringles tube waiting 2 or 3 days to suffocate amidst bodily fluids.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I imagine it varies greatly depending on what side of bed I woke up on that day.

Fair.

 

[Mike Smalling]

All the mentions of their wealth shows how fecking bitter and twisted some people are. Mostly morons on social media. 5 people died and 4 families are without their father/husband/son/brother etc. What they all did for a living is not relevant.

I think a lot of people are less than sympathetic, because they did an extremely risky thing. With the exception of the 19 year old kid, they arguably all should have known better - especially the CEO.

But of course the anti-billionaire sentiment also shows up, and I agree that’s stupid.

 

[Oranges038]

What exactly happens in a catastrophic implosion?

Diarrhoea moves up, rather than out, and destroys your insides, rather than the toilet bowl.

 

[hobbers]

Of course the basement people of twitter and instagram will be bitter and twisted about it. That's their role in life.

Still though, hard to feel too sad. Think it'll be the same when the inevitable SpaceX/Virgin Galactic tourist rocket explodes on launch. Basically - 'oh dear, oh well'.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think a lot of people are less than sympathetic, because they did an extremely risky thing. With the exception of the 19 year old kid, they arguably all should have known better - especially the CEO.

But of course the anti-billionaire sentiment also shows up, and I agree that’s stupid.

Leaving the money aside, the whole “they deserve it attitude” towards people who take risks for fun fecking sucks. I like to climb rocks for fun. I have friends who like to go diving, or cycle very fast down a hill. These are risky activities but they can bring great joy, which helps give life some meaning. We all have various appetites for risk and it will bite some of us on the arse. Especially people who take the biggest risks. We accept that when we take on these risks. Responding with a “told you so” attitude comes across as prissy and joyless. Living a completely risk averse life just seems dull as feck, to be honest.

 

[buchansleftleg]

What exactly happens in a catastrophic implosion?

Any air inside the vessel expands by approx 6000% in a couple of milliseconds. The air particles are superheated and flashover at many 1000's of degrees.

A couple of milliseconds later a pressure wave follows through until it meets the structure imploding in on it.

The structure collapses into itself, usually in steel vessels it's like a can getting crushed. In this case the carbon fibre would shatter into pieces so I'd imagine it would be like being inside a blender.

Thankfully all of this would probably take place before the crew would even be able to perceive it, never mind feel it.

It would just go from life to

 

[Wibble]

I think a lot of people are less than sympathetic, because they did an extremely risky thing. With the exception of the 19 year old kid, they arguably all should have known better - especially the CEO.

But of course the anti-billionaire sentiment also shows up, and I agree that’s stupid.

People don't seem to have the same hatred for people who die as Everest tourists which I'd say is at risky.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Leaving the money aside, the whole “they deserve it attitude” towards people who take risks for fun fecking sucks. I like to climb rocks for fun. I have friends who like to go diving, or cycle very fast down a hill. These are risky activities but they can bring great joy, which helps give life some meaning. We all have various appetites for risk and it will bite some of us on the arse. Especially people who take the biggest risks. We accept that when we take on these risks. Responding with a “told you so” attitude comes across as prissy and joyless. Living a completely risk averse life just seems dull as feck, to be honest.

Yeah, not saying they deserve it. But even within the hobbies you mention there are ways you can take risk. I road cycle, for example, but obviously I always wear a helmet. I imagine you use all the necessary precautions when climbing. These guys did the equivalent of not wearing a helmet, or using ropes when climbing.

 

[DOTA]

Yeah, not saying they deserve it. But even within the hobbies you mention there are ways you can take risk. I road cycle, for example, but obviously I always wear a helmet. I imagine you use all the necessary precautions when climbing. These guys did the equivalent of not wearing a helmet, or using ropes when climbing.

I think if you meet a guy who's built a submarine, and he's been down there many times in it, and he's gonna go down there with you this time as well, it's pretty understandable actually to assume it'll be alright.

 

[Wibble]

I also don't get the "its a grave" issue. We visit graveyards, nazi extermination camps and wrecks all the time and assuming g ordinary respectful behaviour nobody seems to think this is wrong.

Wait until people find out that all sorts of wrecks ,including deep sea and war wrecks, are being illegally/unethically recovered for their scrap value.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah, not saying they deserve it. But even within the hobbies you mention there are ways you can take risk. I road cycle, for example, but obviously I always wear a helmet. I imagine you use all the necessary precautions when climbing. These guys did the equivalent of not wearing a helmet, or using ropes when climbing.

Like I said we all have different appetites for risk. And doing stuff that nobody (or very few people) have done before is usually the most risky of all. I don’t like taking any risks at all when I climb but one of my climbing heroes, Alex Honnold, regularly climbs without any protection at all. That’s how he feels fulfilled. To each his own. Also. You should check out Free Solo. It’s on Netflix and it’s a great watch.

 

[wr8_utd]

Leaving the money aside, the whole “they deserve it attitude” towards people who take risks for fun fecking sucks. I like to climb rocks for fun. I have friends who like to go diving, or cycle very fast down a hill. These are risky activities but they can bring great joy, which helps give life some meaning. We all have various appetites for risk and it will bite some of us on the arse. Especially people who take the biggest risks. We accept that when we take on these risks. Responding with a “told you so” attitude comes across as prissy and joyless. Living a completely risk averse life just seems dull as feck, to be honest.

I've climbed mountains upto 6300m myself and I believe adventure sports and risks can be measured and I'm absolutely in favor of those engaging in such activities. Life is too short to be boring. However, I really don't think this particular incident, while it might have been an adrenaline rush/fun thing for them, given the very obvious massive threat to your life, it feels like the equivalent of paying 250k to climb a mountain with your ropes cut right at the start. I respect their decision to want to feel that rush and thrill of being 3 miles under the water but their choice of company and vessel was foolhardy to say the least.

 

[Wibble]

Yeah, not saying they deserve it. But even within the hobbies you mention there are ways you can take risk. I road cycle, for example, but obviously I always wear a helmet. I imagine you use all the necessary precautions when climbing. These guys did the equivalent of not wearing a helmet, or using ropes when climbing.

More like went bungee jumping with a dodgy company. Which is often only easy to tell in retrospect.

 

[Wibble]

Like I said we all have different appetites for risk. And doing stuff that nobody (or very few people) have done before is usually the most risky of all. I don’t like taking any risks at all when I climb but one of my climbing heroes, Alex Honnold, regularly climbs without any protection at all. That’s how he feels fulfilled. To each his own. Also. You should check out Free Solo. It’s on Netflix and it’s a great watch.

Not a fan of climbing myself and free climbing seems borderline insane to me. But I have done loads of deep/wreck diving, often in remote locations and I've also done shark feeding without a cage on the GBR. Just risks that I prefer.

 

[wr8_utd]

I think if you meet a guy who's built a submarine, and he's been down there many times in it, and he's gonna go down there with you this time as well, it's pretty understandable actually to assume it'll be alright.

I disagree. I've seen several mountain guides and local agencies here in India who I know have gotten their groups to cross passes/scale summits but a little bit of research and just looking at their websites/nature of equipment and so on gave me more than enough data to understand that there are substantial risks involved in going with those particular agencies (one of those agencies actually did embark on a trek where close to 9 trekkers died). In this case, I genuinely do not understand how just looking at that vessel would not flash enough red flags for you before agreeing to go 3 miles down in it.

I also don't get the "its a grave" issue. We visit graveyards, nazi extermination camps and wrecks all the time and assuming g ordinary respectful behaviour nobody seems to think this is wrong.

Wait until people find out that all sorts of wrecks ,including deep sea and war wrecks, are being illegally/unethically recovered for their scrap value.

Absolutely. Most mountains such as K2, Nanga Parbat, and Everest, have bodies scattered all over as well as there being many bodies buried there and not many criticize these activities as being disrespectful to the dead. At least in the case of the Titanic, there's absolutely no bodies left.

 

[Ian Reus]

Gruesome.

Catastrophic Implosion of a submersible explained:

When a submarine hull collapses, it moves inward at about 1,500 miles per hour - that’s 2,200 feet per second.

The time required for complete collapse is 20 / 2,200 seconds = about 1 millisecond.

A human brain responds instinctually to stimulus at about 25 milliseconds. Human rational response (sense→reason→act) is at best 150 milliseconds.

The air inside a sub has a fairly high concentration of hydrocarbon vapors.

When the hull collapses it behaves like a very large piston on a very large Diesel engine.

The air auto-ignites and an explosion follows the initial rapid implosion. Large blobs of fat (that would be humans) incinerate and are turned to ash and dust quicker than you can blink your eye.

Info Source: Dave Corley, former Nuke sub officer

 

[DOTA]

So did we get any decent hypothesis for what the banging sounds were or just 'lotta noises in the ocean'?

 

[Mike Smalling]

I think if you meet a guy who's built a submarine, and he's been down there many times in it, and he's gonna go down there with you this time as well, it's pretty understandable actually to assume it'll be alright.

More like went bungee jumping with a dodgy company. Which is often only easy to tell in retrospect.

Yeah, I don't agree. It seems like it was pretty well-known within the community that this thing was experimental. Look how easy it was to find clips of the CEO talking about how he is 'breaking the rules' with his design. Maybe ask him if the thing is certified. I think you could reasonably have researched the company and the vessel beforehand and assesssed that the risk was high.

 

[prateik]

As per the Wall Street Journal



If true, I think we can now safely say that the implosion happened very early on Sunday and that they didn't even spend a day in the vessel before it did finally implode.

So the implosion didn't cause the loss of contact?
They lost contact at the bottom of the ocean. None of their several methods of going back up were working and it just imploded a little while later?
Mustve been terrifying ..

Going all at once wouldve been a better way to go.. Probably wouldnt even have realized what was happening in that case.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Like I said we all have different appetites for risk. And doing stuff that nobody (or very few people) have done before is usually the most risky of all. I don’t like taking any risks at all when I climb but one of my climbing heroes, Alex Honnold, regularly climbs without any protection at all. That’s how he feels fulfilled. To each his own. Also. You should check out Free Solo. It’s on Netflix and it’s a great watch.

True, some people live for the danger or to break boundaries. I've seen Free Solo. Alex Honnold is clearly amazing at what he does, and he does an extreme amount of preparation for his climbs. I'm not sure it's analogous to this. Honnold is succesful because of how meticulous he is. He doesn't take shortcuts. It seems like a whole lot of shortcuts were taken in crafting this vessel.

 

[Wibble]

Yeah, I don't agree. It seems like it was pretty well-known within the community that this thing was experimental. Look how easy it was to find clips of the CEO talking about how he is 'breaking the rules' with his design. Maybe ask him if the thing is certified. I think you could reasonably have researched the company and the vessel beforehand and assesssed that the risk was high.

You could have reasonably researched a dodgy bungee operator but customers typical don't do that level of investigation. Given that it catastrophically failed, which is unusual even in any travel to such depths, it does look like the rather cavalier approach to designing and building the submersible contributed to the accident. However, the bitterness and anger towards the paying customers and even the crew seems rather misplaced. If you need to be angry then the company is the appropriate target. Given the comments in here it makes me think this is more about resentment at the wealth of the people involved.

 

[Wibble]

So the implosion didn't cause the loss of contact?
They lost contact at the bottom of the ocean. None of their several methods of going back up were working and it just imploded a little while later?
Mustve been terrifying ..

Going all at once wouldve been a better way to go.. Probably wouldnt even have realized what was happening in that case.

It is not clear yet. There is a report that the vessel lost contact, the navy were informed and started to use some secret sub detecting system to listen and then they heard the implosion. There was no indication how long after the loss of contact the implosion was heard. It is eve quite possible that the loss of contact was caused by the implosion and the navy heard the implosion in real time but don't want to give away that they hear everything all the time. We may or may not find out in due course.

 

[Wibble]

So did we get any decent hypothesis for what the banging sounds were or just 'lotta noises in the ocean'?

I guess that is it. Sound travels huge distances in water.

There are quite a few oil rigs more or less between the Canadian coast and the Titanic wreck so that could be it.

 

[Mike Smalling]

You could have reasonably researched a dodgy bungee operator but customers typical don't do that level of investigation. Given that it catastrophically failed, which is unusual even in any travel to such depths, it does look like the rather cavalier approach to designing and building the submersible contributed to the accident. However, the bitterness and anger towards the paying customers and even the crew seems rather misplaced. If you need to be angry then the company is the appropriate target. Given the comments in here it makes me think this is more about resentment at the wealth of the people involved.

Oh yeah, totally agree. There is no need for bitterness and anger towards the customers here. What I'm mostly seeing is a sort of cavalier indifference towards them, probably because they are perceived to have played with fire and gotten badly burnt. The schadenfreude because they are wealthy is totally misplaced, but quite predictable.

 

[That'sHernandez]

So did we get any decent hypothesis for what the banging sounds were or just 'lotta noises in the ocean'?

Other ships in the area, apparently

 

[wr8_utd]

It is not clear yet. There is a report that the vessel lost contact, the navy were informed and started to use some secret sub detecting system to listen and then they heard the implosion. There was no indication how long after the loss of contact the implosion was heard. It is eve quite possible that the loss of contact was caused by the implosion and the navy heard the implosion in real time but don't want to give away that they hear everything all the time. We may or may not find out in due course.

It appears it was "shortly after" so I don't think the gap was more than a couple of hours at most.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

This rescue effort, although unsuccessful, I think speaks to the inherent goodness of humanity despite the naysayers and gloaters online. I was hoping for a miracle, something like the Thai boys' football team being rescued against all odds, and I think that probably everyone on board that Titan submersible was someone I would not have gotten along with in real life. The will to rescue, the manpower and money spent to try and find them, speaks to our better qualities.

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Gruesome.

Hopefully it happened so fast they didn't have time to contemplate their predicament, and they didn't suffer.