Tom Cleverley | 2011/12 Performances

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Randall Flagg

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It really is, people were putting him in their dream England sides and all.

The guy has barely played 10 games. He looks very promosing. But that is it so far.

Last season he was not Wigan's best midfielder
 

Orton

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I think most of us are just crying out for a midfielder who offers something different to the rest of our options, this is where Tom fits in. The potential is definitely there, and he played well at the start of the season but until he gets a decent run in the side, which wont be till next season then he still has a long long way to go.
 

Smores

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I don't know if I agree with that. Cleverley has earned more starts and meaningful minutes, but has only made 4 more appearances then Pogba.
He's had a season of premier league experience with Wigan as well remember, those premiership loans seem to work wonders for those who actually play.

Depending on our transfer activity and whether Pogba would do so without throwing a strop, I reckon we should him on loan next season.
 

KM

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It really is, people were putting him in their dream England sides and all.

The guy has barely played 10 games. He looks very promosing. But that is it so far.

Last season he was not Wigan's best midfielder
Last season Welbeck wasn't Sunderland's best striker. Plus Cleverley was being played on the wings by Martinez.

Btw I would love to see posts where he has been hailed as world class.
 

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It really is, people were putting him in their dream England sides and all.

The guy has barely played 10 games. He looks very promosing. But that is it so far.

Last season he was not Wigan's best midfielder
Just because a young player on loan doesn't start every game doesn't mean the other options are better than him. There are all sorts of reasons why a manager might pick a more limited player ahead of him, from tactical reasons, to picking defensive players to grind out results in a relegation battle, to thinking about the season(s) ahead when it doesn't make sense to give games to someone who will be gone in the summer.

What we do know for a fact is that Martinez thought very very highly of Tom. He said this when Cleverley was playing for him at Wigan:

“He’s only 21, but you look at his performances against Liverpool and West Brom recently and you can see the huge, huge potential.

“His tactical awareness is not normal for such a young man. I don’t think we have seen many cases like him before. Without doubt I see him as an England player."
And this, just before Christmas.

“Tom Cleverley is a player you need to work with to understand the full package. The mentality he’s got is quite unique. He’s a winner and we all see what he can do.

“Tom will be refreshed — and that could be the key for United. He’s going to be fully fit and it’s going to be like having a new signing. He can make a big impact on the title race.”
 

Devilton

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Your point would carry a bit more weight if you used an example who wasn't currently a first-team player for United and set to travel with England to the Euros.

Fergie talks up all of his players - as do all managers - but it's unusual for him to talk up youngsters as much as he has done Cleverley and Welbeck. He obviously has very high hopes for both of them.
This was a few years back...and his comments had the intended effect.
 

Randall Flagg

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Last season Welbeck wasn't Sunderland's best striker. Plus Cleverley was being played on the wings by Martinez.

Btw I would love to see posts where he has been hailed as world class.
He was certainly hailed as an important 1st player for us on numerous occasions.

When threads have been made for the English side some posters were convinced he should be ahead of established players and starting in the Euros. I just think some may have shot their load a bit early.

I think he will take a little bit of time, maybe another season or so before we see what type of player he will be and if indeed he will be good enough for Utd.
 

KM

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He was certainly hailed as an important 1st player for us on numerous occasions.

When threads have been made for the English side some posters were convinced he should be ahead of established players and starting in the Euros. I just think some may have shot their load a bit early.

I think he will take a little bit of time, maybe another season or so before we see what type of player he will be and if indeed he will be good enough for Utd.
Tbf RF, he did looked very good in the first few matches. People were bound to get excited over them, it's just he's he has been injury prone ever since then.
 

Pogue Mahone

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He was certainly hailed as an important 1st player for us on numerous occasions.

When threads have been made for the English side some posters were convinced he should be ahead of established players and starting in the Euros. I just think some may have shot their load a bit early.

I think he will take a little bit of time, maybe another season or so before we see what type of player he will be and if indeed he will be good enough for Utd.
He's definitely been over-hyped in this thread and by some United fans in general.

Disagree with your last sentence though. We can already see what type of player he will be. Fergie clearly thinks he's good enough for United and I've seen nothing this season to make me think otherwise.
 

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Very encouraged with his performance when he came on as a sub today. Although he started wide left he seemed, of his own accord, to end up in the middle and increasingly came to dominate our play. There was a spell during the last 10 minutes of the game today where it seemed all our forward passes including corners were being channeled through Cleverley. His touch looked vastly more assured than it did during those Europa league ties and the one and two touch passing we saw at the start of the season was back too.
 

Jimy_Hills_Chin

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Very encouraged with his performance when he came on as a sub today. Although he started wide left he seemed, of his own accord, to end up in the middle and increasingly came to dominate our play. There was a spell during the last 10 minutes of the game today where it seemed all our forward passes including corners were being channeled through Cleverley. His touch looked vastly more assured than it did during those Europa league ties and the one and two touch passing we saw at the start of the season was back too.
I didn't think that you could read much from his appearance today.
 

giggs-beckham

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Still wanna see him alongside Scholes in a 433, It will be amazing. Him and Clev are both high possession players as is Carrick. Maybe when we rap up the league we can give it a whirl? Hmm.

Also I swear I could see us playing in a more triangular shape in passing and positioning. Could be imagining it though.
 

Theon

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Rooney is a high possession player when he plays in the hole, but he's also far more of a threat that anybody else in that position, certainly more than Cleverly would be.

Don't see what we would benefit by moving Rooney out of position and limiting his freedom to roam around the pitch. It would mean dropping one of Hernandez and Welbeck as well who lead the line extremely well with their movement and threat running in behind of defenders. If Welbeck was on form with his finishing today we would have won by 4 or 5-0
 

#07

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Rooney is a high possession player when he plays in the hole, but he's also far more of a threat that anybody else in that position, certainly more than Cleverly would be.

Don't see what we would benefit by moving Rooney out of position and limiting his freedom to roam around the pitch. It would mean dropping one of Hernandez and Welbeck as well who lead the line extremely well with their movement and threat running in behind of defenders. If Welbeck was on form with his finishing today we would have won by 4 or 5-0
Key word is 'if'.

I think there's an argument for playing Rooney as the man up with Valencia wide of him on the right and Young or Nani on the other side and giving Carrick, Scholes and Cleverley a go in the middle. Its not as if either Welbs or Chico are lighting up the turf right now is it?

I just like what I see from Cleverley. When he came on today immediately the team began routing through him. Cleverley received the ball directly from a corner like 2 or 3 times today against QPR as I recall and when Wazza was in possession he did make an effort more than once to find him. His teammates trust him with the ball, they know he'll use it well and that's big.

For someone so relatively inexperienced at the highest level to have that level of faith placed in his ability by experienced multiple title winning players shows Cleverley isn't a flash in the pan to my eyes. I don't think its beyond the pale to suggest had Park or Pogba come on instead of him they wouldn't have been used by the rest of the XI out there in the same way. In less than a season he has earned the implicit trust of world class players. That to me is significant in itself and makes me feel really bright about his and Utd's future.
 

Theon

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Key word is 'if'.

I think there's an argument for playing Rooney as the man up with Valencia wide of him on the right and Young or Nani on the other side and giving Carrick, Scholes and Cleverley a go in the middle. Its not as if either Welbs or Chico are lighting up the turf right now is it?

I just like what I see from Cleverley. When he came on today immediately the team began routing through him. Cleverley received the ball directly from a corner like 2 or 3 times today against QPR as I recall and when Wazza was in possession he did make an effort more than once to find him. His teammates trust him with the ball, they know he'll use it well and that's big.

For someone so relatively inexperienced at the highest level to have that level of faith placed in his ability by experienced multiple title winning players shows Cleverley isn't a flash in the pan to my eyes. I don't think its beyond the pale to suggest had Park or Pogba come on instead of him they wouldn't have been used by the rest of the XI out there in the same way. In less than a season he has earned the implicit trust of world class players. That to me is significant in itself and makes me feel really bright about his and Utd's future.
I don't think the key word is 'if' at all. What are you suggesting? That Welbeck will never be a good finisher, or that he will always be inconsistent? He was off form with his shooting today but apart from that he did fine, he was making decent runs and with a bit more composure would have ended the game with a couple of goals. It's not a big deal if he has a poor game anyway, it's his debut season and overall I think it's been a very promising campaign.

The more he plays the better I think, because with a bit more experience he can easily become world class. You can already see with his movement off the ball that he'll get scoring chances, and as he plays more and develops greater confidence, he should show more composure with his finishing. Welbeck also links up well with Rooney, another few seasons down the line and that will be a great strike partnership.

Playing Rooney up top wastes much of what makes him so effective. It was suggested we should use Cleverly to help control possession, but Rooney is more than capable of playing possession football. I think that 4-5-1 system would dramatically weaken us offensively as well. Carrick sits deep and Scholes doesn't get forward as much either, so it would place a lot of emphasis on Cleverly getting forward to support Wayne, something we don't know he is capable of doing. Even if he's alright getting forward I can't imagine Cleverly feeding Rooney would be nearly as effective as Rooney feeding Welbeck or Hernandez.

Personally I think you might be reading too much into him getting on the ball when he came on. He was out wide a fair bit and because QPR were playing so narrowly it left him in acres of space, so it's not a surprise he recieved a few passes. Carrick and Giggs were in the middle as well, so I don't think the players were intentionally trying to pass to him because they trusted him in particular to use the ball well, like you suggest. Even if they do trust him, which I imagine they do, I think that same level of trust would be present throughout the team, for every player. Nothing unique to Cleverly. When Smalling, Jones and Welbeck broke through they were all trusted by the players, I think that's just what the club is like.
 

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How long is this lad going to ride the wave of his 'three amazing games at the start of the season'?

If only we could play in the community shield, against Arsenal 2nd reserves and an unfit Spurs team every week. If the lad spent more time concentrating on football and less time trying to be the next DB07 I might actually have a bit of faith. Maybe I am deaf dumb and blind but this 'great talent with heaps of potential' is totally lost on me.
 

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I thought he did quite well today. He gave our attack a bit of purpose and rarely lost the ball despite trying to create something with every touch.
 

Pogue Mahone

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How long is this lad going to ride the wave of his 'three amazing games at the start of the season'?

If only we could play in the community shield, against Arsenal 2nd reserves and an unfit Spurs team every week. If the lad spent more time concentrating on football and less time trying to be the next DB07 I might actually have a bit of faith. Maybe I am deaf dumb and blind but this 'great talent with heaps of potential' is totally lost on me.
One of the three, probably, but I could think of other adjectives.
 

holyland red

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How long is this lad going to ride the wave of his 'three amazing games at the start of the season'?

If only we could play in the community shield, against Arsenal 2nd reserves and an unfit Spurs team every week. If the lad spent more time concentrating on football and less time trying to be the next DB07 I might actually have a bit of faith. Maybe I am deaf dumb and blind but this 'great talent with heaps of potential' is totally lost on me.
I'm not sure what he does off the field to warrant these DB07 comparisons, but I agree that he has been hyped a fair bit.
 

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I like cleverley, hes still raw and drifts in and out, but he's that type of player that always looks comfortable receiving the ball.
 

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I'm not sure what he does off the field to warrant these DB07 comparisons, but I agree that he has been hyped a fair bit.
Just look at his Twitter page and you can see what a desparado he is. Hosting giveaways and Q+A's, talking about his greatest achievements.. just another dreg wanting to be famous.
 

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Just look at his Twitter page and you can see what a desparado he is. Hosting giveaways and Q+A's, talking about his greatest achievements.. just another dreg wanting to be famous.
You seem rather bitter at Cleverley for some reason. Who cares what he does off the pitch as long as it's not something stupid?
 

ArmchairCritic

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Just look at his Twitter page and you can see what a desparado he is. Hosting giveaways and Q+A's, talking about his greatest achievements.. just another dreg wanting to be famous.
:lol:

What's your problem, even if you don't agree with the hype there's no need to write him off like this especially when SAF and Eric Harrison rate him highly.
 

Ash_G

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Yeah I thought he was good when he came on and showed a lot more desire than others.
 

bosnian_red

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How long is this lad going to ride the wave of his 'three amazing games at the start of the season'?

If only we could play in the community shield, against Arsenal 2nd reserves and an unfit Spurs team every week. If the lad spent more time concentrating on football and less time trying to be the next DB07 I might actually have a bit of faith. Maybe I am deaf dumb and blind but this 'great talent with heaps of potential' is totally lost on me.
:confused: He played decently when he came on, much better than our other players at least. What do you want a 21 year old to do considering the rest of his team was playing like piss. I don't think he has it in him to become a world class player personally, but not everyone can become that. He clearly has potential though, and I have no doubt he will become a very good player if he can overcome his injury problems.
 

Vidic_In_Moscow

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Er... If you say so.

Doesn't make the post I quoted any less retarded (that was one of the adjectives I was thinking of)
:lol: Have a read through all of your posts, you think every United player is fecking amazing and anyone who disagrees must be biased or retarded. Thankfully your opinion of me is one that matters very little to me on here.
 

ArmchairCritic

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I don't get the strong opinions one way or another. He's got it all to prove.
Exactly, you still can't helped but be impressed by his ball retention and movement though. He's not the solution yet but to write him off is ridiculous. Just give him space and let him develop.
 

bosnian_red

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Also since he has come back from injury he was played mainly on the wing, a position where he looked pretty lost in tbh. He's much better in the middle, with his quick one touch passing. Worked superbly at the start of the season with Anderson, but since then both have been out injured.
 

Vidic_In_Moscow

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You seem rather bitter at Cleverley for some reason. Who cares what he does off the pitch as long as it's not something stupid?
I think my reasons were there for you to read to be honest. Thinks he is the next DB07 when he has done bugger all to justify it. I prefer footballers to focus on their game rather than anything else, it makes them far too easy to criticise.

:lol:

What's your problem, even if you don't agree with the hype there's no need to write him off like this especially when SAF and Eric Harrison rate him highly.
Sorry mate but you are fanboy #2, this shit is way too predictable!
 

holyland red

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Just look at his Twitter page and you can see what a desparado he is. Hosting giveaways and Q+A's, talking about his greatest achievements.. just another dreg wanting to be famous.
To be fair, I didn't mind DB07 antics one bit as long as he delivered on the pitch. These young blokes work a couple of hours a day and get shit loads of money for it. They could do much worse with their spare time than posting some Twitter shit.

Nevertheless, I can't understand the excitement based on a couple of good performances back in August.
 
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