https://d2kmm3vx031a1h.cloudfront.net/hfRMRTdTVeTUEdkWwXvY_table.JPG
Nothing sexy but it was always the realistic target .
Nothing sexy but it was always the realistic target .
Top 4 race 2016/17
- Thread starter Yorkeontop
- Start date
Not a chance unless things improve.
Here I was under the impression that we could make the top 4 without improving. Thanks for bringing me back down to earth.
Next five league fixtures:
Two we should win but will likely find a way to drop points in one. Two we will lose. Other game, given our form who knows.Next five league fixtures:
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Your impression, your problem
Revising my expectations to a top 4 finish as well. I just pray we get there. It'll be even tougher than the past few years.
This team doesn't have it to challenge for a title.
This team doesn't have it to challenge for a title.
After the first three games, I thought we were ready to go head-to-head with City.
The last week has brought me back to reality. At this point, top 4 and City not winning the league would be a realistic target.
The last week has brought me back to reality. At this point, top 4 and City not winning the league would be a realistic target.
Somehow beat Leicester and Stoke and then vs Liverpool and Chelsea God help us.
Draw would be a good result. How things stand that is.
Draw would be a good result. How things stand that is.
I reckon there's only one spot available in the top 4. City, Spurs (2 goals conceded!) and Arsenal (because it's just what they do, no more, no more less) are not vacating theirs.
Edit: Can mods please adjust thread title to say 2016/17 instead. It just looks so much better that way.
Edit: Can mods please adjust thread title to say 2016/17 instead. It just looks so much better that way.
Said at the start of the season that I expected us to struggle for top 4 and my pessimism has only grown. We don't look good at all.
I think City and Arsenal are dead certs.
I think it's quite open after that, Chelsea, United, Liverpool and Tottenham are all good sides, maybe Everton and Leicester with an outside chance.
I think Mourinho and Conte will improve their sides, as they're both new to their clubs and are defensively competent coaches, so I think they'll be working in training on fixing defensive issues. Liverpool bought smartly and if Klopp can figure out how to deal with parked buses they could definitely be in there. Tottenham haven't really strengthened imo but they've added depth. Could do with more cover upfront but I'm probably underrating Janssen as I haven't seen him much.
I think it's quite open after that, Chelsea, United, Liverpool and Tottenham are all good sides, maybe Everton and Leicester with an outside chance.
I think Mourinho and Conte will improve their sides, as they're both new to their clubs and are defensively competent coaches, so I think they'll be working in training on fixing defensive issues. Liverpool bought smartly and if Klopp can figure out how to deal with parked buses they could definitely be in there. Tottenham haven't really strengthened imo but they've added depth. Could do with more cover upfront but I'm probably underrating Janssen as I haven't seen him much.
Hopefully we will have 4 wins in a row going into the Liverpool game with some confidence and more then 11 points in those 5 games will be a bonus
You have about seven teams vying for four positions. Someone big has to lose out and i hope it isnt us.
High energy scamps like Leicester are not ideal for our lumbering spine, so those points are at risk, but we should beat Stoke and Burnley. The two away's are going to be hard, I think we can possibly match-up with Chelsea as like us their style is a bit oldschool, but I dread the first half against the scouse and their pressing, if we can get to half time though they fade badly.
Such a big ask already, even at this stage of the season. City and Liverpool I expect to fight for the title (though "fight" might be a bit generous, I don't think City can be stopped this season), and Arsenal always finish top four even without challenging for the title, so that's three of the four down already IMO.
That leaves one space remaining to be contested by Chelsea, Spurs and ourselves, with an slight outside chance of someone like Leicester or Everton maybe getting involved in the debate.
Of the three then Spurs are the best side, but their first XI will have to work very hard given they need their best players to wage their Champions League campaign - particularly after the Monaco loss already. Injuries in the Sunderland game after playing at Wembley should worry them as well.
Chelsea I don't know what to make of TBH. Seems like if Hazard doesn't turn-up these days (like against Liverpool) then they don't have much more than Costa and this ability to score winners when he should be off the pitch. But they have no distractions, which is huge. I expected them to be top four before the season started, but with only one of the four spaces available then they can't waste any points if they are to finish above Spurs this season.
And then us: very worrying signs these last few games, but plenty of time to turn it around. My fear is that there just doesn't seem to be much hope on the pitch that things are improving, plus I think we'll have to use the first choice players more in the Europa group than I'd have liked after the loss last week. We might even need to prioritise the Europa League at some stage if league qualification gets away from us.
We've got a big job to do, and given the Adidas situation then I expect our boys will be under the most pressure from above to squeeze into the Champions League next season.
That leaves one space remaining to be contested by Chelsea, Spurs and ourselves, with an slight outside chance of someone like Leicester or Everton maybe getting involved in the debate.
Of the three then Spurs are the best side, but their first XI will have to work very hard given they need their best players to wage their Champions League campaign - particularly after the Monaco loss already. Injuries in the Sunderland game after playing at Wembley should worry them as well.
Chelsea I don't know what to make of TBH. Seems like if Hazard doesn't turn-up these days (like against Liverpool) then they don't have much more than Costa and this ability to score winners when he should be off the pitch. But they have no distractions, which is huge. I expected them to be top four before the season started, but with only one of the four spaces available then they can't waste any points if they are to finish above Spurs this season.
And then us: very worrying signs these last few games, but plenty of time to turn it around. My fear is that there just doesn't seem to be much hope on the pitch that things are improving, plus I think we'll have to use the first choice players more in the Europa group than I'd have liked after the loss last week. We might even need to prioritise the Europa League at some stage if league qualification gets away from us.
We've got a big job to do, and given the Adidas situation then I expect our boys will be under the most pressure from above to squeeze into the Champions League next season.
I still think it's too early to judge anyone. We could go and drop points to Hull and Swansea in the next two, United could go and win a couple of games, and City could lose one and have the momentum punched out of them.
The next five rounds of fixtures should be telling though and I think after 10 games we'll get a good idea of where everyone is at. United need to beat Leicester on Saturday though. A third defeat in a row in the league is unthinkable.
The next five rounds of fixtures should be telling though and I think after 10 games we'll get a good idea of where everyone is at. United need to beat Leicester on Saturday though. A third defeat in a row in the league is unthinkable.
Thing is I'd be surprised if both Liverpool and Chelsea miss out on top four. With no European football both can just focus on the league. Like Klopper said I think we'll get a better idea after 10 games but our next five are mostly difficult.
The thing is that both Chelsea and ourselves have our own issues that could lead to inconsistencies as the season goes on. I agree with what @Antisocial said about Chelsea, that they seem to lack something if Hazard isn't performing. He seems like their only source of creativity considering Fabregas isn't getting much game time under Conte. With us you saw our weakness on Friday. In a game we were comfortably in control of we still managed to give Chelsea a way back in through dips in concentration and individual errors at the back (Henderson not tracking and Matip going to ground when it wasn't necessary). We haven't kept a clean sheet yet which is a cause for concern.
We'll see if both managers can address those issues because if they don't then both could miss out on top four.
What if we failed to get top 4 again?
God bless us.
God bless us.
I think we'll mount a title challenge. I can understand the collective lowering of expectations after three losses on the bounce, but after only five league games, it isn't something that I'm overly worried about. The players and coaching staff will come good.
Good looking out on that thread title.
In future you can change it yourself via "Thread tools" > "Edit thread" top rightIt would be interesting to see what would happen to Jose if we fail to qualify again; his immediate two predecessors got the sack for failing to meant the minimum target of Champions League qualification - is he under the same target? Or have the club lowered expectations this time round based on recent reality? Or will Jose get leeway owing to his profile?What if we failed to get top 4 again?
God bless us.
Let's hope we don't have to find-out...
After having so little hope during the LvG era im surprised to find myself in the minority that think the focus is the the title not top 4.
Our new signings will grow into the team, Martial will find his form and i expect Rooney will find himself on the bench.
Its far too early to panic
Our new signings will grow into the team, Martial will find his form and i expect Rooney will find himself on the bench.
Its far too early to panic
Liverpool's lack of European football is worrying. They might actually push for top 4.
He won't survive not reaching top 4 after having spent around £150m.
The next three games will be telling. Either we continue to free fall, or the players and Jose get their act together. Lose a 4th game on the trot and even the most positive posters on here will surely be getting worried.
And all this time...
Last season City got 4th with 66 points, 71 scored and 41 against
The season before it was us with 70 points, 62 scored and 37 against
The year before it was Arsenal with 79 points, 68 scored and 41 against (anomaly)
The year before that it was Arsenal with 73 points, 72 scored and 37 against
The year before that it Spurs with 69 points, 66 scored and 41 against
Currently we have 9 points from 5 games. Scored 8, Conceded 6
If we extrapolate that over 38 games:
38*1.8 = 68.4 points.
38*1.6 = 60.8 scored
38*1.2 = 45.6 conceded.
We need a to improve significantly to make the top 4. Especially in a year where Chelsea and Liverpool have no European commitments. This might be an anomaly year where you require 75+ points to get CL football.
The season before it was us with 70 points, 62 scored and 37 against
The year before it was Arsenal with 79 points, 68 scored and 41 against (anomaly)
The year before that it was Arsenal with 73 points, 72 scored and 37 against
The year before that it Spurs with 69 points, 66 scored and 41 against
Currently we have 9 points from 5 games. Scored 8, Conceded 6
If we extrapolate that over 38 games:
38*1.8 = 68.4 points.
38*1.6 = 60.8 scored
38*1.2 = 45.6 conceded.
We need a to improve significantly to make the top 4. Especially in a year where Chelsea and Liverpool have no European commitments. This might be an anomaly year where you require 75+ points to get CL football.
City, Chelsea and Liverpool will finish above us. Battle for fourth will be between us, Spurs and Arsenal and if I had to put money on it I would choose Arsenal.
Next five league fixtures:
Gone from one point behind fourth to three now. Liverpool and Chelsea next.
This weekend couldn't have gone any worse for top 4. We really need 2 unexpected results against Liverpool and Chelsea to turn it around.
Not looking good. If I was betting I'd expect a loss at Anfield and a draw at Stamford Bridge, which would obviously be shite.
We have a team that can get results at these places, but I don't think we have a style of play (yet) that will get those results.
We have a team that can get results at these places, but I don't think we have a style of play (yet) that will get those results.
Need to get something from this game. If we don't (not looking good right now) then these would be the points from last three league games for the top seven:
Chelsea - 9 (at least +6 GD)*
Arsenal - 7 (+2 GD)
Liverpool - 7 (+2 GD)
Tottenham Hotspur - 5 (+2 GD)
Everton - 2 (-1 GD)
Manchester United - 2 (at best -1 GD)*
Manchester City - 2 (-2 GD)
*half time in third game
and we would be five points behind fourth.
Chelsea - 9 (at least +6 GD)*
Arsenal - 7 (+2 GD)
Liverpool - 7 (+2 GD)
Tottenham Hotspur - 5 (+2 GD)
Everton - 2 (-1 GD)
Manchester United - 2 (at best -1 GD)*
Manchester City - 2 (-2 GD)
*half time in third game
and we would be five points behind fourth.
No chance in HELL.
All that effort and work against Liverpool undone because we weren't concentrating. It's ridiculous
2 points in 3 games is fecking shocking. Even if two of them were Liverpool and Chelsea away. That Stoke draw is frustrating me more every day.
Yes but only 1 point extra from 1st.
It all looks so close right now we'll either be missing top 4 or competing for the lot!
We've looked fairly dreadful in these 2 tough ways though, we really need to get back on it asap.
Only positive today is that Tottenham, Arsenal and City all drew what were fairly banker fixtures.
Still don't think we'll make it.
I see posters claiming everything will be alright because we're Manchester United and have José Mourinho as our manager but it doesn't work like that. I haven't seen enough improvement to actually believe we're on the up at all.
I see posters claiming everything will be alright because we're Manchester United and have José Mourinho as our manager but it doesn't work like that. I haven't seen enough improvement to actually believe we're on the up at all.