Just let them compete in female but with handicap
I was thinking the same thing this morning. If there was a formula that could calculate how much advantage any one transgender athlete had, it could be used to calculate a handicap for that person. It would be possible to do on an individual level as there are few transgender athletes competing at the top of their sports.
This doesn't work in team sports.
No, there should be 2 categories. One for congenintal females and an open division. Banning anyone is moronic.
No, @phelans shorts short is right. She was treated like shit, even forced to lower her T levels to be able to compete.
In time there will be more. At one point in time there perhaps were not a lot of athletes for the para Olympics but we got there. We could even try putting all trans in the same category both (trans women and trans men) and see how we get on.
that would surely open up another can of worms
I do think a possibility for swimming and most track and field events would be the option to offer two sets of medals (so two golds might be awarded for example) in the same race. It might address issues some of the issues around competitive fairness and number of competitors - though it would still fail to offer true distinction-free inclusion or privacy.
Mens at his original placemet average time minus womens average time would be a start.
Don't you ever get tired of stereotyping everyone you disagree with?
You dont think that is exactly what would happen?
and as soon as one won, i am sure you'll be calling for bigger handicaps, it works both ways
No, it isn't some random advantage when we're talking about men and women, as on average there's a very significant and quantifiable superiority in athletic performance. Every single record in men's sport is better than in women's sport, except for when they use lighter weight or something similar. If a man has an advantage over other men then it's seen as something innate, something he was born with, unless he's using drug enhancers but a male competing with a woman it's not a level playing field from a biological perspective.
And you cant properly carry out research to identify the right levels of handicap across different sports, because there are not enough transgender athletes in a given sport to do studies with adequate controls. Even if there were you'd need transitioning athletes to volunteer for studies where they i.e. might be given a placebo instead of hormone blockers. Which aint happening.
The problem with that is there’s only so many lanes on a track or in a pool and if a trans athlete is competing, it means they’ve taken a spot from a non-trans athlete.
No you wouldnt
Why is that an issue? surely non trans athletes are not any more important than trans athletes.
Some of the arguments here are just ridiculousNo you wouldnt
How would you study it then?No you wouldnt
Because it’s taking away a spot to compete from a cis woman in a cis women’s sport. And yes, I do see that as a problem.
Mate, what the feck's the difference between a male that isn't transitioning (giving him a placebo, right?) and a cismale, physically?
Nothing physically. But the cis male knows he isn't transitioning. Which shows you the problem - the transitioning male knows that he is. Which means any performance data you get is biased.
So you want to measure the difference in athletic performance between men that know they're transitioning and men that don't? Instead of men that do transition and men that don't.
Each to their own, but personally I see that as discrimination and a huge part of the problem.
Yes the knowledge might. Consciously or unconsciously.So you want to measure the difference in athletic performance between men that know they're transitioning and men that don't? Instead of men that do transition and men that don't.
Yes the knowledge of being in transition will make you bench press less when tested
It's not like you can measure people in studies without telling them what it's for
And all this because, presumably you're afraid the women in transition will bottle the test so "their people" get lower handicaps?
In swimming there are 8 lanes, the best ones are the two in the middle. For the finals the faster times to classify get those lanes then the worst times get the lanes in the extremes. There's no way to accommodate someone in those events for symbolic medal, they would have to make a whole heat for that like what they do for some underdeveloped countries that are invited to the olympics as an exhibition.
It is, it's like saying if someone cheated in a competition it's ok as long as that person isn't winning the first place in every single competition. Something being fair is about the conditions of competing and if someone doesn't crush the competition it doesn't mean it isn't an unfair advantage.
Well, I see forcing biological female athletes to compete against MTF athletes as discrimination, so we are at an impasse.
How does this open division work then?
Read the article.
The article says **** all.
Okay, so what do you want me to do? Make something up?
An open category and non-participitation is the same option. There aren't even close to enough trans people for any sport beyond a pure hobby basis, so any open category or a category for only trans people is just a creation made for people who want to exclude trans women from women's sport but for some reason aren't comfortable with calling it a ban.
Then grow the sport, just like every other sport has done for their entire existence. An open division will allow that to happen organically.
Is it not discrimination against cis women who may lose out to a transgender athlete that is at an advance from being the opposite sex before transition?
Well you were the one who said the open division ‘solves the participation issue’. Clearly it doesn’t and you haven’t even read the article you said explained it.
