That's quite the accusation, isn't it? First time?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-indian-government-nijjar-1.6970498
Trudeau accuses Indian government of involvement in killing of Canadian Sikh leader
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A top Indian diplomat was also expelled today in response. Our intelligence services must have very solid evidence of Modi's government being involved if this could unfold as it did today.
Intelligence suggests agents of India behind killing of B.C. Sikh leader (Global News)
First time in Canada, yes. Gotta say nothing is surprising anymore with bigoted and dictatorial governments resorting to intimidation in the West in recent years.
Intelligence suggests agents of India behind killing of B.C. Sikh leader (Global News)
First time in Canada, yes. Gotta say nothing is surprising anymore with bigoted and dictatorial governments resorting to intimidation in the West in recent years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Orlando_Letelier
1973, Chilean govt car bomb in the heart of DC
though a difference compared to this is that the US was basically cooperating in that instance
They must feel very confident about the evidence if they are making this public, cause this will probably seriously harm Canada's relationship with India, which if anything they have been trying to build up - and need, too, with Canada-China relations in the gutter already. (Yes, that's a very political spin, but obviously the entirely affair will be very political, it's not a dry matter of police and justice.)
I'm wondering how likely this is to actually be true, and really be something the Indian government sanctioned. Has India done anything else like this in recent years? (Basically: assassinating somone on foreign grounds.) Or is this accusation a first?
I'm wondering how likely this is to actually be true, and really be something the Indian government sanctioned. Has India done anything else like this in recent years? (Basically: assassinating somone on foreign grounds.) Or is this accusation a first?
Apparently Nijjar was the third pro-Khalistan activist to die outside of India: Hardeep Nijjar is Third Pro-Khalistani Activist to Die Abroad in 45 Days, Canada Probing Motive (21 June 2023)
One was shot dead in Lahore, Pakistan and another one died in Birmingham, UK. The last one is said to have died of blood cancer, but his supporters claim the poisoning theory. In any case, the rhetoric against non-Hindu Indians by Modi's government was bound to make this shit happen.
Floundering prime minister trying to steal votes from Jagmeet Singh.
Can't wait to see how Poilievre spins it to make it all Trudeau's fault.
More seriously, I hope to hell this gov't discussed this matter with allies before going public. If we don't have some diplomatic support we are going to look impotent internationally.
More seriously, I hope to hell this gov't discussed this matter with allies before going public. If we don't have some diplomatic support we are going to look impotent internationally.
Maybe they did?
Kind of surprising. But the evidence must be very solid for Canada to make this public. Trudeau just recently restored diplomatic relationships with Saudi Arabia and seemed to be back on the “pragmatic track”…
PS: I still think, it’s not smart to risk a big crisis with India…. We need to be isolating Russia (& China), not isolating ourselves from Russia’s potential friends.
PS: I still think, it’s not smart to risk a big crisis with India…. We need to be isolating Russia (& China), not isolating ourselves from Russia’s potential friends.
There has to be some sort of support from the US most definitely. You don’t really see countries just accuse like this without having definite evidence.
I suspect most countries knew what happened on their own soil.
Most of them just dont go public over everything
Most of them just dont go public over everything
Going to?
Good point.Going to?
Was funny when your boy was stranded in Delhi after the G20 due to his plane developing a snag. Must have been fumingGoing to?
Got to hope they are ready to produce the evidence, and it is very clear. Otherwise things could end up very messy
Lot of good points made in this thread, all I will add is that if the evidence is damning and comes to light, Modi and his govt should be directly called out for it. At the end of the day, Modi also cannot afford to alienate the West too much with the looming threat of China, knowing that Russia won't be of much help in any war. One can prevent ISI-sponsored separatist activity without resorting to extrajudicial assassinations, if there is something to these individuals engaging in this sort of activity, a proper legal case needs to be made no matter how tedious the process is. Of course, if the evidence never comes to light or is unconvincing, then this will be a terrible diplomatic misstep by Trudeau but I'll give the Canadians benefit of the doubt as this plays out.
The timing is also due to India releasing an accusatory statement against Canada on Khalistan issue on the heels of G20 summit. Indo-Canada trade talks also paused after that.
There could never be a solid evidence. At best the perp is captured and whatever he / she says would be discarded as under extreme duress. As with these kinds of operations there would never be an actual paperwork or tape recording. Not unless the Canadian bugged some high profile Indian Embassy and that would open another can of worms.
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Words used was “pursuing credible allegations” and expelling a diplomat despite investigation was still ongoing. Seems like a political stunt to woo a certain section who is keeping the PM in office.
Canada has modest trade with India and has nothing major to lose as the trade talks have been stalled since 2010.
Now the tune is “not trying to provoke or escalate”. Asking a diplomat to leave on not proven allegations is escalating the situation. Seems like Canadian PM has no understanding of what escalation means.
Funnily enough Canada is issuing travel advisory to a country where its PM went with his son just 10 days ago.
Canada has modest trade with India and has nothing major to lose as the trade talks have been stalled since 2010.
Now the tune is “not trying to provoke or escalate”. Asking a diplomat to leave on not proven allegations is escalating the situation. Seems like Canadian PM has no understanding of what escalation means.
Funnily enough Canada is issuing travel advisory to a country where its PM went with his son just 10 days ago.
Do you think Canada is making this up?
No way to know and most likely will never be proven either way. But words used was allegations and its quite unusual for such statements to be made in parliament. And expecting no escalation when you have expelled a diplomat while merely pursuing credible allegations. None of the G7 countries are backing Canada’s accusations. That should be embarrassing for Canada. You need to be absolutely sure with hard evidence to come out with a statement like that. If Canada had that, then its allies would have supported the statement
Truth be told, Modi has been whoring to Russia and China with that BRICS bulls*** for months now. Intimidating and harming dissenting citizens living abroad is the modus operandi of the likes of Russia, China, Iran and Saudi Arabia. It's exactly because of the spinelessness of major players in the West (US, UK, France, Germany, etc.) over the last decade that we have those situations happening more often, with new players probably trying their luck now.
Trudeau has absolutely nothing to gain electorally by releasing this information at this point in time. The elections are two years away and the main focus of current discussions on the economy (and housing), which won't benefit from worse relations with India. So whatever else is true, Trudeau is unlikely doing this just to get a certain part of the electorate behind him. This is also more generally not at all a big issue in Canada, so not something anyone was expected to be capitalizing upon politically.
Canada is through this statement undermining current 'western' efforts to improve relations with India, which is a foreign affairs priority for them. So I would assume the main reason no-one is taking Canada's side is that there's nothing to gain and quite a lot to lose by doing so.
It's not really a random diplomat: according to the CBC, it is specifically the Canadian head of the Research and Analysis Wing, which is apparently India's foreign intelligence agency.
All that together makes it seem quite likely to me that Canada really believes India was (somehow) behind the murder. Which doesn't mean it's necessarily true, but I really doubt it's a made-up allegation. There's just no advantage anywhere to that.
Oh, apparently the Canadian government would have liked to wait longer with any news, until the investigation had progressed further and there was concrete evidence one way or another. But they felt forced to make the announcement yesterday because some media outlet was going to report on the affair, and so the government determined that it would be better to release its own statement first - as Trudeau did.
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/harjit-sajjan-hardeep-singh-nijjar-1.6971605
So that explains why it all feels rather clumsy - cause it was never supposed to happen this way.
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/harjit-sajjan-hardeep-singh-nijjar-1.6971605
So that explains why it all feels rather clumsy - cause it was never supposed to happen this way.
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His entire government is surviving on Khalistani section support. He doesn’t have a majority on his own. To go public for an ongoing investigation shows political motive. Newspaper break story all the time and government could have just said "no comment till investigation is over". For this to come in parliament from PM of the country is on whole different level.
India summoned Canada high commissioner and told him to deport one of their own and finished the meeting in 5 minutes. If Canada wanted an escalation, they have got one.
No one is taking Canada side because nobody goes on accusing other big nation on the basis of “credible allegations of potential involvement”. They require proof which Canada can’t provide at the moment.
By the way this guy was no “Sikh leader”. It’s funny how suddenly people become “leader” and “activist” if they suit western agenda. By that definition Osama Bin Laden should be called “Islamic leader”. He was wanted in India for over 10 cases of targeted killings in Punjab, funding secessionist activities, running terror camps and nexus with Pakistani agents. Red corner notice was issue by Interpol for him. Nijjar even entered Canada on false passport and was rejected asylum twice. To call him "Sikh leader" is an insult to Sikh community.
What do you brand as Khalistanti section support? India doesn't like that Canadian Sikhs can freely campaign for a separate Sikh state, they seem intent on shutting down freedom rights in their own country. Modi never seems to like being called out for all his problems in the past, all the killings that went unanswered under his name. To state that they are announcing this due to maintaining support is laughable. A killing has taken place on Canadian soil by India and you want them just to let it go. No sane Government will announce such a thing if there wasn't evidence to back it up considering they were meant to be talking about a trade deal before. The Indian Government has been targeting and going after the Sikh community for a while now and I for one I'm glad this news is being broadcast as enough people aren't aware of it.
The Liberals have a minority government, so they rely on every part of their electorate for their political presence, not on any group individually. Also, how big is this group supposed to be that they're that important? And finally, what's the electoral advantage of announcing this news now? Cause it's a dumb moment, with the investigation still ongoing (so lots of opportunity for others to discredit the claims and laugh at the moment of announcements), and two years away from the next elections (so far too early to drum up support). If this announcement really primarily served to rally support, it should not have been done in this way or at this moment at all.
Except this story would cause an international issue, so the government couldn't get away with 'no comment'. If the media had broken the story, the Canadian government could not have just leave this accusation against India hanging in the air; they would have had to make a statement to either confirm or contradict the story. It then makes sense to break the story yourself so you can at least control the narrative.
Well, yes, obviously it escalated. Canada accused India of murdering someone on Canadian soil, that will never not escalate. What point are you making?
Canada will have provided whatever current evidence they have through the Five Eyes arrangements; never in public while the investigation is still ongoing. And for Canada to make this public statement, I would assume they feel pretty confident about the evidence (at least at this stage in the investigation). Of course, other countries' intelligence agencies can draw different conclusions and might think there's nothing there. But I would still argue that, whatever they conclude, they were always unlikely to support Canada since there is no advantage to doing so: they would gain nothing from supporting Canada (already a close ally) but risk alienating India (while they are actually trying to woe India).
So again, I think other countries not supporting Canada doesn't mean much either way; it just means that they prioritize staying on India's good side over any considerations regarding Canada.
Bigger than I thought actually, from what I'm reading. There are apparently some 750,000 Sikhs in Canada (the biggest group outside India), and quite a few in key ridings. They are not all Khalistan supporters though, and anyway, the point remains that this would be entirely the wrong moment for the announcement if its primary purpose were electoral.
I just took a look at the list of countries that Canada has extradition treaties with and India is on the list. If Modi's government had serious evidence of criminal actions by Nijjar, why didn't they go through official channels? You can't declare that someone a terrorist without proper criminal charges; that is what the rule of law is about.
By the way, here is the entire list of countries for your own knowledge.
By the way, here is the entire list of countries for your own knowledge.
Our current government doesn’t really care of silly things like ‘rule of law’ (except when enforcing them on others) and the PM sees himself as an old school Maharaja rather than an elected public servant. Anyone who disagrees with them or their parties’ philosophy (which is a pile of turd anyway) is an anti-national or an enemy of the state.
I haven’t read enough about this issue - not sure how strong Canadanian Governments case is and what led it being made public - and will catch up today on the nuances but you’re dealing with an extreme right wing party that is in charge in India and all the typical tropes that come with it. The only thing is that they have an overwhelming (and depressing) level of support from the easily swayed masses - which is a feckload of brainwashed people and hence alot of overall influence in the narrative.
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This seems like a blunder by Indian intelligence. I doubt they expected to get caught. No option now, other than to double down.
India is a key ally to the west and don’t think anyone would support Canada’s crusade against India.
India is a key ally to the west and don’t think anyone would support Canada’s crusade against India.
These right wing hindu bakhts are working tirelessly to undue decades of good work by the Indian government, media, Indian business community and by far more than anyone else, the overseas Indian community.
For as long as i've been alive the image of India has been of a hardworking people, the corner shop uncle, the doctors, lawyers and accountants, the IT guys, the bigshot CEO's everywhere. Even the old BJP party pre Modi did a great job of promoting India abroad.
This is being worn away by the internet troll, the thirsty bobs vagene guys, the jai shri ram chanting bakhts and now even the govt has gotten onto the shit show.
Imagine the huge good will that India had built up where someone like Modi, who was banned from entering the US and the UK, was accepted with open arms when he became the PM. Today his idiot govts are throwing out Canadian ambassadors.
For as long as i've been alive the image of India has been of a hardworking people, the corner shop uncle, the doctors, lawyers and accountants, the IT guys, the bigshot CEO's everywhere. Even the old BJP party pre Modi did a great job of promoting India abroad.
This is being worn away by the internet troll, the thirsty bobs vagene guys, the jai shri ram chanting bakhts and now even the govt has gotten onto the shit show.
Imagine the huge good will that India had built up where someone like Modi, who was banned from entering the US and the UK, was accepted with open arms when he became the PM. Today his idiot govts are throwing out Canadian ambassadors.
The investigation is still ongoing and no evidence has been made public yet. From what I read, the Canadian government didn't want to go public until the investigation was finished, but was forced to make a statement since a media outlet was going to report on the investigation, and so the government wanted to get its own message out first to be able to control the narrative.
That's it. Even if Canada were to present irrefutable evidence in the future, I don't think any of Canada's ally would do more than say something boring that mildly criticizes India without actually ruffling any feathers. As I've said before, Canada's allies are already Canada's allies, and nothng they will say or do here will change that; but going in hard against India could undo a lot of hard work that's currently going on to get India on their side.
There is a new CBC article today that goes into the type of evidence a bit, claims India has not denied involvement behind closed doors, and suggest the US may be behind part of the evidence and support Canada on the matter:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sikh-nijjar-india-canada-trudeau-modi-1.6974607
A few quotes:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sikh-nijjar-india-canada-trudeau-modi-1.6974607
A few quotes:
Interesting.
Scathing to say the least